Let's lay into the C4 England Dream Team

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Because its Saturday night, I'm stuck in, and theres two and a half hours of goals and inane punditry on telly.

Alf Ramsay is the manager, obv... beating among others BRIAN CLOUGH! How is he allowed in?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Saturday, 5 June 2004 19:50 (twenty-one years ago)

This is basically the Fast Show sketch isn't it.

"Oh yeah, got to have Gordon Banks..."

― de, Saturday, 5 June 2004 19:59 (twenty-one years ago)

THANK GOD they didn't go for ponytailed lumbering mishap, though.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Saturday, 5 June 2004 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

matt you're getting predictable.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 5 June 2004 20:09 (twenty-one years ago)

whereas you julio

― de, Saturday, 5 June 2004 20:10 (twenty-one years ago)

He's one of the great goalkeepers of our time and that's that. It should be predictable to point that out.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 5 June 2004 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Chris Waddle was robbed.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Saturday, 5 June 2004 20:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Seaman > Shilton > Banks

Unless you don't akshully watch football.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Saturday, 5 June 2004 21:18 (twenty-one years ago)

let's hope Seaman is the only Gooner on this list

― Patrick Kinghorn, Saturday, 5 June 2004 21:52 (twenty-one years ago)

cobblers I missed Adams

― Patrick Kinghorn, Saturday, 5 June 2004 22:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Jesus. What utter, utter utter utter bilge. Channel 4 talkiing heads shows are usually filled with cockfarmers, but this was beyond that. What a self-satisfied bunch of cunting bloated leeches on the body football.

Alyson Crud should fuck off. As should Will Buckley - will someone give this man some flaming pills and a gun and other methods of suicide and tell the depressive arsewipe to just get on with it. Tony twathead from the Sport. ye flaming gods. Ralf Little! Mark owen. FFS! Fuck off and die the lot of em.

Vernon kaye is and always will be, a tit.

Ooh - 100 greatest world cup moments. Oh vey! Rock on!

― Dave B (daveb), Saturday, 5 June 2004 22:43 (twenty-one years ago)

is it me or can you sum up Piers Morgan's entire appearances on tv as "I'm sorry. I'm very contrite. I'm a shitheaded moron and you must laugh at me"

― de, Saturday, 5 June 2004 22:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmmm.

The thing there was that the footballing talking heads were, for the most important, informative, witty, and worth listening to. The usual rote of shite comedians dropping the lines that they were hoping would get them a guest spot on the revived Fantasy Football League was bad, and, what newspaper does that weird faced woman write for, so I can avoid it forever more?

I get the feeling Vernon Kaye has never actually seen a football game in the flesh, and prefers to watch "t'England down pub with blokes". Cunt.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 5 June 2004 22:47 (twenty-one years ago)

The team itself though, as a neutral watcher, seemed pretty sound. Beckham over Matthews is a sham, though.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 5 June 2004 22:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Alison Rudd writes for the Times i believe

I'm assuming you didn't mean Helen Chamberlain

― de, Saturday, 5 June 2004 22:50 (twenty-one years ago)

That final team wasn't half bad though. Wouldn't win you the World Cup though, too much fanny dangle and no decent ball winner in midfield. On the evidence of what I saw though, Beckham > Matthews. But only just.

I didn't expect Lineker to make the cut - I was pleased when he did. Also that Robson/Hoddle/Moore/Gazza/Gerrard midfield one was a bugger. Who wouldn't want every single one of them in their team if they could? Danny Kelly was OTM in how underused Hoddle was for England.

The punditry was largely terrible though - they could've done with a serious dose of Danny Baker.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Saturday, 5 June 2004 22:52 (twenty-one years ago)

The real scandal was how no one mentioned how ALAN SHEARER'S FUCKING DIRTY ELBOW LOST US THE ARGENTINA GAME!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Saturday, 5 June 2004 22:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Weirdest thing: they showed Beckham's free kick against Columbia, but overdubbed the commentary from his free kick against Greece over it.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 5 June 2004 22:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, and who let Dominik fucking Diamond back on the televison?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 5 June 2004 22:54 (twenty-one years ago)

xxx-post you mean Charlton not Moore

I was sad Greaves didn't make it over Shearer

― de, Saturday, 5 June 2004 22:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I've spent the best part of my life hating Jimmy Greaves but even I felt sorry for seeing that footage of him walking out at the end of the 66 final. Well, that and spending about half the time going "hang on, THAT was Jimmy Greaves?!"

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Saturday, 5 June 2004 22:57 (twenty-one years ago)

x-post the same people asking John McQueerick for his footie opinions

― de, Saturday, 5 June 2004 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm actually too young to remember what Saint and Greavesie actually did on the TV. I remember them always being on the fucking thing, and that they went to the seaside to walk along the peer a lot, but what did they actually DO?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 5 June 2004 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)

That Gazza Euro 96 goal, it occurred to me tonight, is especially notable for the outstanding chunkiness of all three players involved (Gazza, Hendrie and whoever the Scottish goalkeeper was).

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Saturday, 5 June 2004 23:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I believe, according to Baddiel and Skinner, in their latter days they spent a lot of time Talking About The Endsleigh League As If It's Important.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Saturday, 5 June 2004 23:00 (twenty-one years ago)

"Ricky Otto, the Giuseppe Signori of the South East coast"

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 5 June 2004 23:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Damn but it was The Good Old Days

― de, Saturday, 5 June 2004 23:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't care what Bob fucking Mills thinks about anything.

― Matt (Matt), Sunday, 6 June 2004 07:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Alyson used to write for the times but I'm not sure now. I quite liked her and Danny kelly.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 6 June 2004 08:26 (twenty-one years ago)

i like how dave boyle is slowly becoming dave stelfox, burning with incandescent rage

― charltonlido (gareth), Sunday, 6 June 2004 08:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I believe the Scottish goalkeeper was Andy Goram. Our own greatest ever. Damn, we should never have lost that game.

― Ally C (Ally C), Sunday, 6 June 2004 08:31 (twenty-one years ago)

You are forgetting it was all Uri Geller's fault we didn't win that game. If he hadn't being twatting about making the ball bobble as McAllister was on the run-up to take his penalty, it could all have been so different. That, and if we hadn't had pish like Stewart McKimmie in the team.

(Cook is correct, it was Andy Goram in goals)

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 6 June 2004 09:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Stewart McKimmie and Jim Leighton = two sweatiest Scotland players of all time?

― Ally C (Ally C), Sunday, 6 June 2004 09:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, the top exponents of the old "vaseline on the eyebrows" trick...

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 6 June 2004 09:31 (twenty-one years ago)

So who was this best ever team, then?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 6 June 2004 10:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Off the top of my head....

Manager: Sir Alf Ramsey

Pearce Moore ???? Cohen

Finney Charlton (B) Gascoigne Beckham

Shearer Lineker

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 6 June 2004 10:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, and Gordon Banks in goal.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 6 June 2004 10:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely there have been better players than Pearce in the last century?

― Ally C (Ally C), Sunday, 6 June 2004 10:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Blah blah will to win blah blah.

― Ally C (Ally C), Sunday, 6 June 2004 10:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Shilton

Cohen / Moore / Walker / Sansom

Matthews / Hoddle / Charlton / Finney

Greaves / Shearer

― the junefox, Sunday, 6 June 2004 10:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Sansom looked like a player I'd admire.

― cozen (Cozen), Sunday, 6 June 2004 12:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Shearer over Lineker! what have you done with the real junefox?

― stevem (blueski), Sunday, 6 June 2004 12:09 (twenty-one years ago)

That is strange, indeed.

― Ally C (Ally C), Sunday, 6 June 2004 13:06 (twenty-one years ago)

The proper C4-approved team was:

Banks
Cohen, Adams, Moore, Pearce
Beckham, Charlton, Gascoigne, Finney
Lineker, Shearer

Kenny Samson looked much better than Stuart Pearce on the evidence of what I saw last night.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 6 June 2004 13:10 (twenty-one years ago)

The worst bit of the entire programme was Terry Christian going "Steven Who?" CALL YOURSELF A SCOUSER?!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 6 June 2004 13:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I have never liked Pearce, save when he had just converted a penalty for England.

I always thought Lineker overrated - especially every time I saw him in the stubby flesh. He scored goals, often - but he didn't do other impressive things as Shearer has done.

He is a good TV presenter. Perhaps we will see both on BBC soon enough.

― the junefox, Sunday, 6 June 2004 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)

er, Terry Christian's a Manc, which would explain his nonchalance over Gerrard perhaps

― stevem (blueski), Sunday, 6 June 2004 13:58 (twenty-one years ago)

He was totally up John Barnes, which I think confused me.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 6 June 2004 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

This is a tale that has tabloid potential indeed.

― Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 6 June 2004 21:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Terry Christian's a rabid ManYoo fan

― de, Sunday, 6 June 2004 21:58 (twenty-one years ago)

but then those northerners all sound the same with their funny brogue

― de, Sunday, 6 June 2004 22:01 (twenty-one years ago)

The Pinefox has clearly lost whatever it was he once had - I am curious to what all these "other impressive things" were for which Shearer was responsible. Especially when Lineker won the Golden Boot in a World Cup and single-handedly got us past Cameroon in Italia 90 and almost beat Bobby Charlton's record and PLAYED FOR SPURS!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 6 June 2004 22:34 (twenty-one years ago)

11 World Cup matches - 10 goals. Speaks for itself.

― Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 6 June 2004 23:08 (twenty-one years ago)

The best bits where when they focused on the "flair' players and it was endless footage of Waddle/Hoddle/Barnes etc doing stepovers and dinking balls past mulleted defenders.

Gazza - all they had to show was that goal against Scotland and the Cruyff turn vs. Holland. Brian Robson wuz robbed.

I read Kenny Sansom's 1986 World cup diary/autobiography. I think it was him anyway. Might have been Terry Fenwick. I don't know why.

― David Nolan (David N.), Sunday, 6 June 2004 23:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Me neither.

No, actually I would like to read it.

sp: 'Bryan'.

I know that Lineker scored a lot of goals, and played for Tottenham for a couple of years. But Shearer impresses me more, as a player. I see more 'skill' in Shearer. I suppose, for instance: compare his shooting to Lineker's.

Lineker becoming a penalty taker always stumped me. He had not really been one in the 1980s, and seemed inauthentic as one in the 1990s. Whereas Shearer is a born pen-taker. Though he has missed quite a few.

― the spurfox, Monday, 7 June 2004 10:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Gary took three very important penalties in WC90 and scored them all - classic.

Speaking of paenalties - why did they show us Gazza just missing the cross from Macca? My poor brane. Also, that penalty shoot out was easily the best I've ever seen (tenchically speaking).

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 7 June 2004 11:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I know he scored them. But he still seemed inauthentic.

I agree about the 1996 shootout, technically - you are... spot on.

I know this not because of C4's prog but cos of the ITV one a week ago, with MATT SMITH walking around Wembley and talking about Britpop... did anyone see it?

― the junefox, Monday, 7 June 2004 12:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Jimmy Greaves's nose seemed to shorten appreciably sometime in the 1970s. How did this happen?

― Tim (Tim), Monday, 7 June 2004 12:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Militant lesbian feminists made him munch their radical carpets to the point that his nose wore down.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 7 June 2004 12:18 (twenty-one years ago)

pinefox makes a good argument for Shearer over Lineker. i am inclined to agree, mainly because Shearer is more my type of striker than Lineker (who couldn't head for toffee and rarely defended when it was required unlike Trojan Alan)

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 7 June 2004 12:22 (twenty-one years ago)

is the '96 shootout v Germany the only time England have scored all 5 penalties in a shootout before sudden death?

i fear England's penalty abilities still, tho with the midfield being as it is they may rival the '96 semi-final for technical skill this time, and perhaps even go one better, maybe against Portugal in the quarter-final? what a thrill that would be.

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 7 June 2004 12:24 (twenty-one years ago)

ALAN SHEARER GOT US KNOCKED OUT OF THE WORLD CUP! If it hadn't been for his elbow Sol Campbell would have scored and we'd have beaten Argentina.

Lineker, on the other hand, bailed us out.

Steve, I think all five penalties were scored against Spain in the previous round.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 7 June 2004 12:25 (twenty-one years ago)

48 goals at international level tells its own story. Shearer is a great striker, who's done it repeatedly at club level; he's the classic english centrre forwaqrd, but at international level, he didn't do it as much as the boy Lineker.

Did we take all five? the Spanish missed 2, so if they went first, we'd have taken 4; if they went second, we'd only need to take 4.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 7 June 2004 12:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the Shearer over Lineker arguement (which I'm tempted to agree with) is that Shearer does more on the pitch than Lineker did, Lineker just waited for stuff to happen around him, Shearer, as stated on the show, would be more than prepared to get dirty if needs must.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 7 June 2004 12:28 (twenty-one years ago)

McCarra says today that this team is plainly better than that of 1996.

I am not inclined to agree. MATT SMITH'S HIGHLIGHTS PROGRAMME last week (did *no-one* see it?) reminded me what a buccaneering team that could be. I really liked the fact that the midfield was

Anderton / Ince / Gascoigne / McManaman

- I am not fond of all these players individually, but I like the way that they became The England Team for that tournament; and I like their Natural Width. (Not just talking about Gazza.)

I think Beckham overrated, but have come round to Gerrard, big-time; don't like Lampard much, and Scholes has not delivered in longtemps. Rooney is a great player, Owen is mostly a whingeing, disloyal (to Liverpool) disappointment.

― the junefox, Monday, 7 June 2004 12:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I warmed to Lineker in the Poland game, 1986. So sharp. I think he could have had four, but one was given offside. I went nuts that night.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 7 June 2004 13:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I was allowed to stay up really late. Wasn't it on at midnight or some madness? (memo to FIFA - have world cups in time zones close to Europe for me. Thanks - SA is a good start. )

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 7 June 2004 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I was 16 and remember my sister moaning at me because she was trying to sleep and I was going goal crazy.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 7 June 2004 13:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I remember that game being too late for me, but staying up for Paraguay. That match I loved.

― the junefox, Monday, 7 June 2004 13:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Another 3-0. Lineker with two more. Plus, hmm, Frankenstein's monster with the other?

What happened in the quarters? Oh, right, him.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 7 June 2004 13:50 (twenty-one years ago)

yes, on the day of my grandparents golden wedding anniversary, that little genius put rather a dampener on celebrations

― chris (chris), Monday, 7 June 2004 13:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Matt DC will you stop blaming Shearer for the Argentina defeat? might as well blame the ref for calling it out (some would not have seen it). the fault remains with Batty and Ince for missing their penalties (tho even this is really down to Roa's excellent work rather than their inepititude).

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 7 June 2004 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)

junefox by Matt Smith's programme do you mean Euro Legends? that focussed on Euro 96 the other week and was indeed great. Gazza's goal never looked better to me in fact (his agonising failure to slot in Dazza's pass from just a yard out has never looked worse).

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 7 June 2004 14:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Shearer did something he thought was cool and dandy as he did it all the time - in a world cup, you just can't do it. That was very daft indeed; I do blame him to be honest in some repsect; I also blame Hoddle for leaving shearer up front and not owen, for not practising penalties and also Kim Milton Nielsen for not calling the handball by Ayala when he jumped for a long ball with Shearer in the second period of extra time.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 7 June 2004 14:17 (twenty-one years ago)

The beauty of that Argentina match is the broad and dazzling array of scapegoats.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 7 June 2004 14:25 (twenty-one years ago)

it's all your fault

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 7 June 2004 14:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Those scapegoats wander off an eventually end up grazing in Hoddle's field.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 7 June 2004 14:29 (twenty-one years ago)

practising penalties = pointless, as the Dutch can testify

Batty and Ince should not have been taking penalties - they were hardly known for their shooting skills. Shearer's foul in the box never struck me as that bad tho perhaps I am biased. i remember everybody I watched that game with was in amazement, partly because many of us were still delirious over what we thought was a winning goal by Sol. instead we actually looked at the giant screen, saw Argentina on the break and got very confused and disappointed very quickly.

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 7 June 2004 14:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Prac tising penalties over time makes a big difference; having a go a day before won't.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 7 June 2004 14:42 (twenty-one years ago)

In fairness to Shearer he slotted in at right back for much of extra time and played well.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 7 June 2004 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Shearer is such an inelegant player compared to Linekar. I go for the latter.

― Ally C (Ally C), Monday, 7 June 2004 14:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Ally C OTM. Shearer is a dirty little man, as Neil Lennon (and others) can testify. I would have picked Le Tiss over either of them, which is probably one of the multitude of reasons I would never be England manager.

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 7 June 2004 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

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