Famous

Any number of people could become famous around here. Not Britney famous, though. (I think I dodged that well)

And I was going for "I'm with the band" cred with the indie gurlies when I was talking to Kate at the Lollies gig. Erm... yeah.

Loaded question answer: Ian White, he'll probably become some sort of director or screenwriter or something.

I think Momus has the best chance of continuing to be famous, however the most famous person who isn't a pop star on this board could be.....Tom.

I was called 'The Famous Ally C' the other night though. How odd.

Well, Wheeler already claimed infamy so I guess notoriety is next best thing.

Fame carries a lot of shit with it. The indiscriminating adoring fans that love every bowel you make, and the indiscriminating bashers that think every body pore of you whiffs of "asshole". Well, at least you get to know who your real friends are, quickly.

A lower key fame -- far less than mainstream fame, but known in small remote circles across the world -- would make me really happy, if it were at all possible.

I also went through a phase of watching friends and acquaintances get their 15 minutes, with varying degrees of success. I have at least two exes that are famous (or cult) and I have a really informed perspective on how that makes people behave (men have it easier because so many of them can get helpmeets). Or how it can attract the kind of sycophant I actively despise. There is a tendency these days in the classes with leisure time: they can afford to pursue art as a lifestyle thing, whereas anyone who is actually invested with talent and oddity from the begining is coming from a different place. And feels conflicted about what to do and how to express it.

Gonna get big: Nitsuh, some Dunedin lot, Kate, plus others who may be rich and/or behind the scenes operators. And just a hunch but go, Maria, go!

When I was young I always wanted to be famous for things I could never possibly ever do, like be a footballer or a spaceman.

So, yeah, I'm already a failed wastrel.

Sure, who hasn't minded fame or at least a dreamy concept of it? But I think Ally pointed out that the trappings aren't the key thing so much as the comforts. I suspect the rest of my days will be at the least comfortable, so I don't mind the relative lack of fame or anything, especially when friends and good wishes matter more. The random messages I get from people noticing my AMG reviews work well enough for me right now. :-)

I don't know enough to predict who will be famous. I think I'll pick on Nude Spock, then.

When I was a kid I wanted to be famous like Madonna, and even though my desired standard of fame has decreased significantly I don't think I have quite coped with it yet. I'm still chasing my dreams, some of my dreams have changed, but most of them haven't and it just so happens that a spin off/occupational hazard/fact of attaining these dreams is fame.

I'm wondering though: how many people here think that the reason they haven't become a superstar (I use that word because there seems to be a lot of musicians around) is because they are actually scared of what would happen if they did suddenly become a superstar?

Also, how many of us have famous friends? Am I a groupie because I have famous friends but am not famous myself?

I have a friend who is nationally 'famous' (would be recognized by a large % of the british public, but probably not internationally) and it causes quite a bit of stress and hassle in itself. I'm not sure it's for me.

The groupie issue is, shall we say, a bone of contention between me and one or two of my friends, who partake of groupies. I have never written a fan letter in my life, nor have I approached a famous person intentionally for sex. It's utterly deluded to do so and would be really gross because I'm all for equality in relationships and I've seen some fairly outrageous examples of abuse of power when the relationship isn't, or one of the people in it tries to 'pull rank'. One guy tried this on me once, and got the ear-bashing of his life in front of his friends.

And just one note. Groupies almost never get more famous than their object of lust. I am very fond of saying to friends that it's only possible to sleep your way to the middle.

at all tomorrow's parties last year an acquaintance who really REALLY irritates me, and who previously wouldn't talk to me as i'm not part of the london indie cool set came up to me and was suddenly all friendly as she said "you're really famous now aren't you?" that really scared me.

I've become as famous as I currently want to be, i.e. if you google my name my page comes up first, the only measure of fame that truly matters.

You've reminded me why I got really sick and bored of music scene stuff. During Britpop a few of my pals totally started to believe their own hype and lost perspective about things like this, and suddenly all these people who had the swivelhead quality of junior-high cliques were in their lives. Cocaine was part of the equation, of course. Yuck.

Are they the ones with the slanty fringes?

I think I'll either end up being a) this famous or less for ever or b) extremely famous for somthing. I think I'm past the point of being able to be moderately famous. Of course a) implies that I have some sort of fame now, which is doubtful. Bu hey, see weakness thread ref. arrogance.

Did I want to be famous? No, not at first. Fame, or rather, INFAMY, was something that was thrust upon me from a very early age simply for being the only weirdo in a very small community. Time and time again, having a big mouth and large opinions will guarantee that more people know who you are than you know who they are, which is the potty training version of fame.

Things like the internet and the indie music scene are just a giant extension of a small village full of gossips. Did I have any choice but to go on the stage? I felt like I was already placed on a stage by other peoples opinions from the day that a 12 year old weirdo with an English accent, a funny haircut and a Warhol fixation moved into a tiny village.

So the first time that I, very drunkenly, at the age of 16 or something, crawled onto the stage of someone else's gig, picked up the microphone and started sing-ranting my head off, and suddenly everyone in the nightclub turned around and stared, not with the thought that I was an idiot weirdo, but thinking they wanted to BE that girl on the stage... people started treating me differently that day. I never thought I would be famous, but I ended up that way almost by mistake.

Do I want to be famous now? Fuck yes. Fame is the ultimate FUCK YOU to everyone who has ever screwed you over. Fame is the FUCK YOU to the kids who slammed you into lockers in high school, when suddenly instead of making fun of your haircut, they're walking around with your haircut. Fame is the ultimate FUCK YOU to ex lovers and ex friends who have betrayed you.

My current band was formed as revenge, plain and simple. Several years ago, someone I loved dearly and trusted more than anyone in the world betrayed me in an earth-shattering and life-changing way. So I formed a band with the express purpose of writing a song which would make her feel as small as she made me feel. The day that she heard that song on some college radio station, and wrote me in a fury, I knew that my goal had been accomplished. And it's still happening now. I wrote a song last night that was so vitriolic it could strip paint off the wall, and boy did it feel good.

I know that in the grand scheme, I've still accomplished nothing. A couple of songs on the radio, a couple of inches of various press, and a couple of tours. But everything that we accomplish, which I never *DREAMED* in a million years that we ever would, is just another FUCK YOU in the face of those who wished me ill. I'm fucking ugly, I can't sing, I can't write, I've got very little discernable musical talent, but I'm up there and they're NOT.

I had the drive and actually MADE IT HAPPEN while they just sat in their hipster pads and complained. I don't have to recconcile or cope with failure, because goddammit, at least I fucking worked my ass off and TRIED, instead of sitting around leaching off other people's fame and thinking I was god cause I got on a guest list.

Is that fucked up? Yes, it probably really is. I know that the more famous you become, the more fucked up you get by it. Fame doesn't solve any problems, it only compounds them. I know that if I ever achieve the sort of fame that I want, (yes, Bowie-casualty alert) it would probably destroy me. But then again, I don't think I really was born with much of a chance of ever being happy and normal and content, so I will settle for being emotionally damaged, but still creative and FUCK YOU famous. I want it anyway, because even if it does destroy me, it's still the best FUCK YOU that there is in the world.

As to who on this board will succeed... I don't have a clue. Whoever actually WANTS it enough to WORK for it. You look back at high school yearbooks, and invariably the "Person most likely to succeed" is selling insurance, while the class weirdo that everyone hated ends up on TV. So I guess that means that Doomie will be on the cover of Time Magazine before all of us! Heh!

Doomie might well write his novel and do just fine by it. By the time he settled down and stopped insulting the rest of us (which is when he became 'Doomie') I thought...maybe...

Kate babe, your issues have swallowed your pop!

Personally I would like to be happy and then respected and admired. How many people know me or know of me b/c of those goals is an aftereffect, not the goal itself.

I think our society places far too much importance on "celebrity" partly b/c we've become lazy and withdrawn. And to anyone who's old enough to drink in the US (21) and is still thinking about High School and revenge on bullies, you really need to grow up and move on.

1) I am well aware that my reasons (and many people's reasons) for wanting fame are fucked up. Fame is a fucked up concept in and of itself. (Ignoring the Warhol casualty alert that I also believe that Fame can be an artform in and of itself.) I know it is not going to bring one new friends, if anything, it seems to actually isolate people. But *I*, personally don't *get* to have love, approval, intimacy in the normal ways. It just never appears to be an option for me. Is it a fair trade-off to trade something that you need, and will never get (positive attention of unconditional love) for something which may be harmful, but seems to be easy to get (the negative attention of fame/infamy)? No, of course it isn't, and I'm aware that it's a fucked-up trade-off, but it seems to be the only one that I'm going to get. I really have come at this point to believe that it would be easier for me to be on Top of the Pops or on the cover of the NME than it would for me to find a committed, sustained, HEALTHY, and equal relationship. And please don't censor me for saying that, because it's not a dig at anyone except myself. Yes, it's fucked up, but it's me admitting my own shortcomings as well as the shortcomings of my relationships.

2) Fame as FUCK YOU is not *just* about people from the distant past who have done me wrong. It is about people in the here and now, still walking around doing damage. And this isn't, as some would believe, just about writing nasty songs about ex boyfriends or girlfriends. Last week I walked into my former office with a copy of our latest single and an NME with a review of it in my hand. That was a lovely FUCK YOU. Individual FUCK YOU songs do tend to take on a life of their own, long after the grudge has worn itself out. (Which is funny, considering that the love songs I've written have never won me the boy, but FUCK YOU songs always hit the mark in question.) In many ways, Fame DOES equal Power, and reclaiming power is the ultimate purpose of revenge.

4) Fame and Art (despite Warholian commentary above) are not the same thing. This is going to sound SOOO pretentious, but the creation of music for me is not a desire, it is a need. I'm not arrogant enough to think that I'm "enlightening" anyone. (No offense, Chris) I make music on my own, sitting in my room with a guitar and a 4-track because I would go (more) insane if I didn't. The craving for fame, on the other hand, is a desire, not a need. I would NOT sacrifice everything for fame, the way that I have sacrificed everything for my need to make music. I think that's an important distinction I may have failed to make. No, I would not like to be an Anna Nicole Smith or a Tara P-T, famous for nothing but being famous, as intriguing as the idea is.

There's obviously a lot going on in my life right now which is making me feel this way. Maybe Chris and the rest of you are right, maybe if I'd ever BEEN in a good or healthy relationship, I wouldn't have this need for fame as a replacement. I'm thinking about this far too much, but it's obviously very close to the bone right now.

P.S. with regard to "working hard" vs. drive vs. talent. Lots of people, artists and not artists work hard. But there really is something to be said for drive. I know lots of people who have loads of talent, but no drive, who are still making 4-tracks recordings for themselves in their parents basements. I also can name lots of people with very little talent, but massive drive, who are currently inhabiting the upper eschelons of the charts. Draw your own conclusions. But even drive and "working hard" are not the same thing.

Without the drive I'd be sweeping streets.

Badly.

And to anyone who's old enough to drink in the US (21) and is still thinking about High School and revenge on bullies, you really need to grow up and move on.

Yes, DRINKING is a far more constructive way of dealing with childhood trauma, and long-running grudges, and being continually fucked over by loved ones than oh, say, using it as fuel for your creativity and turning it into something constructive.

Not that I'd know anything about drinking... ;-)

I also meant that I didn't think that fame was usually a *direct result* of hard work - too many other factors!

You're right that in my second post that was a bit ambiguous - sorry.

I didn't say it was. I was only using the legal age to do so as a common hallmark of maturity. I figure 4 or 5 years out of high school should be enough time to build a life and move on. And no Sterling, I was talking in general about all the posts on this board. This is a topic that gets to me b/c I think Americans are so obsessed with celebrity. What's odd is that I almost put Pamela Anderson Lee but then figured someone out there might think Barbwire was the height of brillance and I didn't want to be offensive.

Word.

"Don't you know it takes an honest man, who knows he sucks but does the best he can"

So, if someone becomes famous for working really hard, but also maintains the capacity to like themself and others, that's the greatest.

at heart, i admit it, i am a bit guilty that i don't do a more altruistic job.

My problem right now with continuing to discuss this is that we're standing on the tremulous ground of art = pain, IMO. It's not a concept I buy into but we're getting awfully close to the idea that the "fucked up" musician is telling everyone that the drive is due to being fucked up, while the other side is telling the artist that if they were "normal" they wouldn't feel the way they do. Ay carrumba. I'm not stating, for the record, that I actually think either side thinks this; rather that it's a little too close to a subject that causes hemmorages of the brain at times.

And Kate- my respect for you has increased a great deal, a little because of what you said but mostly because you said it well.

in any case, money and adoration don't interest me that much. i can survive okay on fuck all dollars. i have no desire for adoration either, who wants to be put on a pedastal? i require only love and respect from the people i love and respect.

maybe i would like to be recognised one day as being a talented musician on the underground level, but i think i can do that without fame.

but thinking about it, what more could i ask for? if 10 people like my band, that gives me a warm feeling in my tummy.

The high school geek example was an analogy, I never said that I was still walking around with a head full of anger about my high school years. In truth, patterns of alienation were already well established and set by that time. Yes, adolescent angst is something that most people grow out of. But alienation on a fundamental level is not something people are just going to grow up and snap out of because they've reached an arbitrary "age of maturity".

The idea that there is a magic age where you suddenly hit maturity, and you have "dealt with" all the shit from your past is absurd. Your tone comes off to me as patronising, and I think that a lot of people, including me, are responding to that as much as they are responding to what you are saying. It's reductionist and simplistic to the point of being vaguely insulting to insinuate that everyone has the same maturing process, because no one has had the same formative experiences (positive or negative, supportive or destructive). Everyone carries their past around on their shoulders, to a greater or lesser degree; you are the sum of your past experiences and more.

Also, the comment that only Americans are obsessed with celebrity is just patently untrue. The obsession with celebrity has been with human culture since the Classical Greeks (good god, was THIS the argument I got into with Brent on Saturday night? I think it might have been.) - it's not something new or even necessarily American. Maybe you *read* it as being a purely American thing because the advent of an instantaneous mass media has coincided with American domination of world culture. Classical civilisation was just as obssessed with celebrity- remember they actually made gods of their emperors and their poets.

Being a celebrity (or an artist, because we are, ultimately, talking about celebrity coming from being an artist of some form. No one has mentioned celebrity that comes about through political means, have they?) is possibly one of the most useless and selfish things that one can be. Hence my bristle with the idea that art is "enlightening" anyone. Of course we should all be doing something more altruistic and positive for society. The obsession with fame and celebrity, and maybe even art itself *is* a self obsession, ultimately. I can't offer an argument against that. I know that it is wrong, but I want it anyway.

Leg Warmers? Please stop. I am old enough to remember when leg warmers were fashionable the first time round, the craze inspired by movies such as Flashdance and Fame. Make the thinnest and most elegant part of your leg as bulky and unattractive as possible, now THERE is a good look. They didn't even actually make you any warmer, as more heat is lost through the sole of the foot than the ankle, and leg warmers don't cover the sole of the foot.

I'd be interested to know if the same people who approve of drive/work -> artistic success -> psychological revenge would also approve of drive/work -> financial success -> psychological revenge.

I think what I'm getting at is that the idea of 'drive' separating the successful from the unsuccessful seems kind of...well, Thatcherite, almost, when combined with the idea that it's in some way a 'fuck you' to those who don't make it. Of course self- validation plays a part - I think we're all looking for that.

Everyone carries their past around on their shoulders, to a greater or lesser degree; you are the sum of your past experiences and more.

Wow. I have to say that if I lived my life like that I'd probably be round the bend by now. And if everyone judged me by my past behaviour and actions I'd be in deep trouble. Life's about the future isn't it? The only thing that keeps me going half the time is the hope things are getting better. Maybe I'm just a naive optimist.

Suzy, your posts always fill me with joy, you live such an impossibly glamorous life. I don't understand what you're on about half the time, but it's fun.

This is a topic that probably deserves its own thread, which I will start in a minute. Please bear with me, because I have to log off the internet to make long posts, in order to save my godparents' phone bill.

I dunno, Wheeler. We seem to be putting a lot of effort into our attempts to be infamous, and hell, no one at Hampshire even seems to notice.

I'm not going to address all the other points that address mine b/c I have to work. But I'll say dwelling in the past is unhealthy and will stifle you if you don't try to move on. I only referenced America's obsession with celebrity b/c that's what I'm familiar with. And if my tone sounded patronizing, well then maybe it's because I think admitting you started a venture based on revenge is really sad.

I'm old enough to remember leg warmers as well which is why I think bringing them back is a great idea. Somehow this dovetail's nicely into the Ally=Valley thread but I really do have work to do.

Clearly this = v.mentalist, but fact of learnionbg to cook = quite helathy in itself and many others now can sample MGC (inc.ILE before now) so hurrah and if [xXx] shd happen by when the oven was opening, bygones are bygeones and yesw i'm ovah it, and anyway as it stands ignorance = bliss which foils my plan entirely chiz chizoR

After 14 years in Washington, Nixon returned to his native California, became counsel of a large Los Angeles law firm, and wrote his political memoir, Six Crises (1962). His yearly income exceeded his total earnings for the previous 14 years, but wealth could not substitute for political power.

you're all the st.lunatics to my nelly.

-- ethan, Sunday, November 4, 2001 8:00 PM (6 years ago) Bookmark Link

as a teenager i was convinced i was going to be a successful techno dj like dave clarke or something. it was inevitable, it HAD to happen. this was before i'd ever laid hands on or learned anything about decks/mixing/selection or even knew much about techno at all, everything would just fall into place. the idea faded by the time i was 17 or 18 and realised there were millions of tools just like me out there dreaming of something similar. by the time i got decks i realised it was just going to be a fun hobby and the odd unpaid gig.

i think this is part of the reason teenagers can be so arrogant, because they're destined to be a genius, just you wait and see, world!

although if you are to succeed in any competitive field you need an almost delusional sense of self-belief (talent and hard work help too, i suppose)

come on, i bet you all wanted to be ballerinas or astronauts or some shit.