Unions: classic or dud, cobra and destro

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Sometimes I think about our world and I think unions are the best idea going... EVER.

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

When I go union I can pull in $400.00+ a day...

JM, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Jeez, JM, what's your job? ;-)

I'm a proud member of the UC clerical union, CUE (Coalition of University Employees) and would strike without hesitation if it came down to it. The union has beaten down the university to provide some long overdue salary increases and standardization of benefits systemwide, and is keeping the pressure up even right now for further improvement. That said, our local branch here at UCI is riven with plenty of unfortunate internal politics that have made me hesitate to get directly involved in its organization. The overall goals are clear, though, and they're at least being carried out as well as can be.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Classic. Search: Teamsters, UAW, Longshore, 1930s. Destroy: naaaahhh...

Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Were it not for the unions, I wouldn't have the ridiculously easy & posh job I have now. Classic all the way.

David Raposa, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

In theory: great. In practice: great. (I mean, what instrument of collective action doesn't leave a little to be desired? Government? Corporations? NGOs, apart from humanitarian ones?)

I especially like the concept of the strike, in that it is the ultimate tool of capitalism. After all, in a "free market" the employer-employee relationship is supposed to be a mutually beneficial one.

Nitsuh, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

dave you are the biggest wop in history.

ethan, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

therre is power in a union.

Geoff, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Classic. The reason why the United States hasn't become a Third World nation (in spite of certain politicians, but I ain't giving Ethan any ammo).

Oh yeah ... SOLIDARNOSC!

Tadeusz Suchodolski, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

for the most part classic and yet it is also good that in the usa there are now more entrepreneurs than union members.

keith, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i r still fucked off at UK gov that you do NOT have the right to be represented by a professional body like a union when negotiating with employers.

Alan Trewartha, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Bloody unions don't half get in the way of corporate investment returns. No unions = 10,000 on the FTSE.

Mark C, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Jesus, Ethan. I would counter with something equally fucking stupid, like "have a potato, you mick", but the hell witchu. If you cannot understand the power of brotherhood, and you feel the need to disparage my heritage, then you are no friend of mine. You are dead to me.

(Imagine that last bit being spoken in a really think NYC-type Italian accent. Like Big Pussy.)

David Raposa, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ethan, there's a dead canary coming your way....

Kerry, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Mmmmmm, potatoes....

Kerry, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes indeed. Destroy Solidarnosc.

Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

It was too much to expect someone to come out foursquare against unions. Maybe this was a bad question (i.e. not a question at all).

What about the opposite? Name one good thing that unions have done in the last year. They couldn't defeat G.W. Bush. They are not making the globalization argument very well (i.e. are seen as "conservative" on this issue, which in old-style def they are). They are apparently only useful for wage-laborers (i.e. common interests between salarymen and laborers STILL not articulated). As an alternative to churches, almost-vanished local civic groups, and "government" as meaningful institution in people's lives they seem an utter failure. Why?

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, please. I have nothing but bad things to say about unions. They're diseased organizations tearing themselves apart through ignorance, stupidity, and petty power issues, instead of (you know) BANDING TOGETHER against the common enemy, y'know what I mean? For instance - the former Laborer Union head in CT gets in good with Governor Rowland, schmoozing and brownnosing and whatnot. Lo and behold, he is soon named commissioner of the Department of Labor. Guess how many of his "friends" from the union (who, by the way, were smart enough to support a non-un type of guy like Rowland during the elections) think that the new commish is going to give them a hand in settling various issues? And guess what's happened so far?

But, like I said, they sign my paychecks, so I do my job and tow the line (albeit not with my words, obviously). If you have a problem with that, then let me refer you to my associate, who will be glad to assist you in alleviating your fears and qualms. If you need any more assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me. Good day.

David Raposa, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Unions being used for jobtrusting for existing members/keeping the tops comfortable are the problem. Just coz an objectively good thing exists doesn't mean that thieving sods can't screw it up.

Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Also: search the Italian COBAS federation, which has been ahead of the pack lately.

Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I never said that unions are objectively good things. But the ideas that the on-the-ground institutions are supposed to represent, the goals towards which the unions are supposed to make progress (a dignified workplace; fairness in hiring and firing; a reality of financial security), are very hard to dispute. How has progress been so rolled back? ("why" may be less interesting and much easier to answer)

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Different stories in different nations: In the UK I suspect the Labor Party is the key question, in particular the role in the post WWII govts.

In the U.S., the red scare in which all militant leadership was driven from the ranks. Then workers finding themselves vs. leftists in Vietnam, then upsurge in detroit and postal service in 70s + miners strike [where other factor for decline revealed, which is bullshit "reform" platforms like Miller's Miners For Democracy] but anyway labor upsurge cut short by stagflation and blows to american industry in late 70s leading to catistropic Chrystler bailout [where labor/management partnership & business unionism showed ugly underbelly] then Reagan smashed PATCO then defeatdefeatdefeat thru mid 90s.

Also, note from 50s on concerted failure to even attempt to try to organize the south [which = key question].

Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

What's your problem with Solidarnosc? You got something against Lech Walesa?

Tadeusz Suchodolski, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes. And the pope.

Sterling Clover, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, Walesa has some scary conservative views .

Kerry, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Also, Solidarnosc, while containing many working ppl, was never a union so much as a political party with an organized constituency of workers. What other "union" did Reagan and the CIA evah praise?

Sterling Clover, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

However, with all that in mind and any number of horror stories of self-serving individuals, I still think the union is a GRATE prinicipal.

chris, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Good recent American union development: expanding their circle of interest to include immigrant workers (as opposed to seeing immigrant labor, legal or extra-legal, as inherently detrimental to the fortunes of American laborers).

Thing that tends to make unions worse that other NGOs: the average NGO is built around coherent principles focused on specific topics. Unions are devoted almost solely to improving the lot of their members, regardless of the larger principles; they're pretty much for anything that's likely to improve their wages, benefits, safety, etc., and that's just about that. The past couple years haven't necessarily seen that fact change, but the rhetoric of unions has certainly become more coherent and stable in terms of broad principles, as backed up in part by the sudden embrace of foreign labor organizations and U.S. immigrant labor.

Nitsuh, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Of course, backing foreign labor isn't just coherent in principle, but also hugely self-serving to American unions: more regulation in other countries = less jobs moving to other countires.

Nitsuh, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Um...immigrants were always in the unions. Or maybe I just imagined that all those steel and stockyard workers were not American-born. I think you're talking about racism, which certainly exists and has existed, but is no different among the higher classes - cf. Silicon Valley. And this anti-immigrant prejudice goes all the way back, of course.

Kerry, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Difference: unions recently adopting policy calling for citizenship rights for immigrants. But this was undertaken last year in boom economy. Now I expect this will no longer get as much even lip service.

Sterling Clover, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Thanks for the clarification, Sterling. That's what I mean, Kerry -- not that immigrants haven't always been a huge portion of the labor movement, but that unions were, up until recently, paying a lot more lip service to the protection of the rights of illegal immigrants and migrant workers, being a lot less hostile to the "importation" of foreign labor, etc., etc., etc.

But yeah, given the past couple months, I'm not expecting any sort of positive action on immigration during the next 5-10 years -- and I half-expect quite a few family members here never to make it to permanent residency. It was hard enough before.

Nitsuh, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Super utter freaking DUD! I know Im the odd one out here but a) Had to join a union when I worked at a grocery store for no reason, the union never did anything since the workers were all students we just got the shaft. B) a teachers strike at my university ended up extending the term by 2 weeks, shrinking exams into one week and still missing some class time in the end. Of course the school used this as an excuse to raise student fees. C) The union at another place I worked was flat out racist, only would higher Italians, luckily I was in the office which was nonunionized. D) Buzz Hargrove is a cockfarmer. E) Their responsible for the NDP getting elected in Ontario and screwing everybody over for 4 years.

I know there are good reasons for unions, half my relatives seem to be in an electrical workers one, but any of my personal experiences with them have been far worse than the crappy employers I had to endure.

Mr Noodles, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Tell you what, Clover. You do the following -- (1) go into a shipyard and start up a union/political party, whatever, knowing full well that you might be arrested and tortured in a country with a less- than-sterling human rights record (propped up by a government with an even worse human rights record); (2) very publicly lead that union/political party, knowing that your government with the less- than-sterling human rights record could bust it up at any moment and throw you in jail (not to mention that your country could also be invaded at any moment); (3) be placed under house arrest and be held in communicado when the less-than-sterling government finally decides to crack down. Maybe when you show that you have his balls, Clover, then you can criticize Mr. Walesa, his scary views notwithstanding, and whine till your heart's content over how much support Reagan and the CIA gave him. That, or perhaps you should spend some money on history books instead of CDs.

Tadeusz Suchodolski, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I think unions are classic. Are they working in America? The right wing CIA factbook in its brief summary of the American economy notes that 'The onrush of technology largely explains the gradual development of a "two-tier labor market" in which those at the bottom lack the education and the professional/technical skills of those at the top and, more and more, fail to get comparable pay raises, health insurance coverage, and other benefits. Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households.'

(http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html)

maryann, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

twenty years pass...


Man Bites Dog: Mega-Corporation Says It’s OK With Its Workers Unionizing

Parting company with almost every other U.S. big business, Microsoft says it won’t oppose employee unionization.

Amazon is calling the cops to arrest union organizers. Starbucks is firing them. But the other globally famous Washington state–based corporation, Microsoft, is breaking ranks not just with Amazon and Starbucks, but with virtually the entirety of American business, both big and small.

If its employees want to unionize, Microsoft says, that’s fine.

In a June 2nd blog post, Microsoft President Brad Smith wrote that the company would not discourage or delay its workers from forming or joining unions. Then, on Monday of this week, the company made a joint announcement with the Communications Workers of America (CWA) that if a majority of employees at Activision Blizzard, which Microsoft is in the process of purchasing for $70 billion, signed union affiliation cards, it would recognize that union. It would not oppose that effort; it would not subject workers to anti-union arguments; it would not insist on a follow-up election (a redundancy that every other U.S. company in a similar position would certainly insist upon).

The CWA has long been one of the nation’s most militant and effective unions. Unlike virtually every other union, it never abandoned the strike, and in recent decades won quite a number of them, while other unions shunned them for fear they’d lose. In that sense, the accord between Microsoft and CWA might be viewed as the agreement of two unicorns.

But there was more to Monday’s declaration than simple harmonic convergence. In March, the CWA sent a letter to federal regulators saying that the proposed acquisition raised a host of antitrust considerations. With this week’s announcement, however, the union withdrew its complaint.

This is exactly how unions should play the game.

As to Microsoft’s motivations, the company surely must have concluded that Biden administration regulators looking at the Activision purchase were a good deal less likely to rule against that purchase if it meant that Activision workers were to increase, not decrease, their income and power.

But there appears to be more to Microsoft’s calculations than derailing obstacles to its current acquisition, important though that may have been. Smith’s statement of June 2nd made clear its stance on unionization applied to all of Microsoft’s 181,000 employees who were eligible for union membership (as company executives, for instance, are not). What else could Microsoft have been thinking?

My theory (and it’s just a theory) is that Microsoft believes giving its workforce the right to unionize actually gives the company a competitive advantage over its peers—most immediately, its peers in the tech sector, which have universally greeted the prospect of a unionized workforce with horror and rage. Microsoft, by contrast, seems to have realized that the young techies it wishes to hire (and, once hired, keep) belong to the most pro-union generation in American history. In the most recent Gallup poll on the matter, fully 77 percent of Americans under 30 said they viewed unions favorably. One reason why Starbucks’s overwhelmingly youthful army of baristas is going union is that the pro-union sentiment of the young is both a rational calculation and a statement of values; it’s almost a cultural norm.

In his June 2nd blog post, Smith said as much. "Recent unionization campaigns across the country," he wrote, "including in the tech sector have led us to conclude that inevitably these issues will touch on more businesses, potentially including our own." What Smith did not say—what he did not need to say—was that those issues would also touch on Facebook, Apple, Amazon, and Google, and when young techies compared those companies’ hostility to worker power to Microsoft’s more welcoming perspective, they might well opt for the House of Gates rather than the Fortresses of Zuckerberg and Bezos.

Among its corporate peers, Microsoft is clearly a heretic. But if the company’s wager is right—if unionization is actually a competitive advantage in attracting and keeping young, talented workers—this heresy may yet spread.


https://prospect.org/blogs-and-newsletters/tap/man-bites-dog-mega-corporation-says-its-ok-with-its-workers-unionizing-microsoft/

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 15 June 2022 20:35 (two years ago)

seems relevant that it is not rly “young techies” full of “talent” amazon and starbucks are so willing to call the cops on, but rather the “overwhelmingly youthful army” of min-wage manual and service laborers their businesses revolve around slicing layers of value from. having once attended the opening of a microsoft store for the sake of the free weezer concert, i know they do have a retail arm; also that software development is its own kind of salt mine, that labor is labor, capital capital, and unions good; nevertheless you’d think this would be at least mentioned.

difficult listening hour, Thursday, 16 June 2022 02:32 (two years ago)


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