Television Criticism

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Let's talk television criticism.

To get things started I would like to talk about a point in Pierre Carles's documentary "Enfin pris?" that is shared by both Bourdieu and Chomsky, that right now the televised debates of ideas are just a simulacrum of democracy: a theatrical representation of expressing ideas esp if the ideas are relatively complex and not much diffused since these takes time to be developped and today's tv doesn't make this possible.

To illustrate this point, Chomsky said that if you go on tv and say something like "kadafi is a terrorist" you just need 4 seconds to say it and everyone will get it since it's an idea that have already been transmitted many times before, it's a recieved idea but if instead you say something like "as a terrorist he's not as terrible as some of the directors the cia had" then everyone will think you are mad or say that you just can't claim something like that, you must explain yourself ...but between 2 advertisement breaks there's just the time to repeat conventional thoughts, people saying ideas that aren't trivial get interrupted in brutish ways, because "there is no time" or "people won't get it". At one point Chomsky said "we are millions of hours short, meanwhile these debates are a simulacrum of democracy!" I found that inspiring.

Similarly, Bourdieu wrote an article on the impossibility to hold on tv a coherent and critical discourse about tv, because tv's devices are applied even to the critical shows. Of course that sort of discourse can only displease people part of the "media ones" making a living by doing exaclty that, criticizing tv on tv; it happens that this article is about what happened when Bourdieu appeared on such a show, Schneidermann's, and was set up as he expected: he knew that he wouldn't be allowed to make his point so he prepared himself to let the journalists play their usual game (cuts, interruptions, spinning, etc) and wanted to say, after a while, that they were perfectly illustrating what he was on about but in this particular incident he've been sort of bullied until the end of the show and couldn't even deliver this hack properly. thus the article in le monde diplomatique. and "Enfin pris?"

"Enfin Pris ?" by Pierre Carles is a documentary about the journey of 2 media critic guys; one who sort of sold-out (Schneidermann) and another who didin't (Carles) but it's also an epilogue to "la sociologie est un sport de combat", as an explaination on why for 2 hours in that film Bourdieu had the chance to talk without any "contradictor". 2 hours done, X millions hours left to go.

Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Monday, 19 July 2004 00:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Roger Ebert's great! Roeper's OK but not as good.

Symplistic (shmuel), Monday, 19 July 2004 02:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know what you people are talking about, but I love me some VH1. Michael Ian Black is my new hero.

artdamages (artdamages), Monday, 19 July 2004 06:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I said Schneidermann "somewhat sold out" because as a writer at le monde he always was a harsh critic, as he was in tv when he was getting started in the biz ex: accused the boss of Libération of being a sellout.

His writing is ok but when given his tv show he revealed himself a sellout by participating in filtering out every sentenses contravening to the dominant discourse, shmoozin with powerful people and "not asking difficult questions" to them like one of his guest Messier the CEO of the world's second largest media group : was caught on tape but not on air saying stuff like "it will be a glamour kind of interview" and proceeded to talked about trivial things like sanwiches and holes in soxes.

That's one of the many good proofs of "Enfin pris?" that Schneidermann is selling his show as a television criticism tv show but it's next to useless to get the job done. The documentary also show his double-standard when he is interviewing intellectuals depending if they are a threat to his bosses and his job or not and setting-up the structure of the show in consequence (ex by being 4 against one, talking all the time etc)

Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Monday, 19 July 2004 12:05 (twenty-one years ago)

two months pass...
(i have nothing to add at this time, but since it had such a lovingly detailed intro and got a link from the 'stewart on crossfire' thread, i thought this deserved a revive)

m. (mitchlnw), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:05 (twenty-one years ago)

ken tucker does a good job. mick farren too.

dan (dan), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Charlie Brooker's generally pretty entertaining, even if the anger thing is starting to get a little old.

Matt (Matt), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:12 (twenty-one years ago)

caitlin moran in the times.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:20 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah it should have been a great thread - i wish i had something to add too, mitch.

jed_ (jed), Sunday, 17 October 2004 23:05 (twenty-one years ago)

i think i intentionally killed this thread. i feel bad now.

Symplistic (shmuel), Sunday, 17 October 2004 23:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think people should criticise TV. It seems churlish.

Alba (Alba), Sunday, 17 October 2004 23:11 (twenty-one years ago)

All churls to thread.

caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 18 October 2004 05:56 (twenty-one years ago)

three months pass...
Some films of Pierre Carles relevant to the thread
(in french)

(to get them one have to install the proper p2p program to get the download started: it would work with edonkey but I suggest lphant instead.)


Pas vu, pas pris - Pierre Carles - FR VHS Rip.avi


La sociologie est un sport de combat - Pierre Carles - DivX FR VHS Rip.avi


Pierre Carles - Enfin Pris - Fr Divx Vhs Rip.avi

Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Monday, 14 February 2005 17:36 (twenty years ago)

Nancy Franklin is often good. But she's probably the only TV critic I read. Maybe Virginia Heffernan -- does she still write about TV? Yanc3y to thread to talk about Heather Havrilesky.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 14 February 2005 17:40 (twenty years ago)

does anybody rate clive james? (haha the first quote that popped up on a google: "The British Secret Service was staffed at one point almost entirely by alcoholic homosexuals working for the KGB" – uncredited but surely from a very shrewd Smiley's People review, yes?)

jones (actual), Monday, 14 February 2005 18:12 (twenty years ago)

Virginia Heffernan -- does she still write about TV?

She does, but I think her writing is terrible.

Yanc3y writing about "The Wire" is the only good recent tv criticism I can think of.

Leon the Fatboy (Ex Leon), Monday, 14 February 2005 18:14 (twenty years ago)

I don't sample enough TV criticism to pretend I have an informed opinion, but Tom Shales makes me giggle sometimes. And Lisa de Moraes is wonderfully snarky and self-effacing, she almost makes me wish I watched TV that isn't dinnertime Simpfeld reruns or public broadcasting.

W i l l (common_person), Monday, 14 February 2005 20:21 (twenty years ago)

I like Lee Wang. He's currently working on a couple critical/theoretical pieces: one on the similarities between pro wrestling and reality television that promises to explore how a viewer relates to the televised 'real'; and the other tries to explain how the omnipresence of the televisual supertext, in narratological terms, incorporates the viewer into its diegesis.

Leeeter van den Hoogenband (Leee), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 05:58 (twenty years ago)

I think the original post didn't get many responses because by now it's kind of obvious. This point gets made over and over again. If you're a blue-stater with a college education, it's the kind of thing most of your friends either bitch about or takes for granted. I stopped watching TV, and when it's on, I don't even look for a debate. I shrug my shoulders. Most of America, indeed the world, doesn't seem to read Chomsky or care much what he says, though in Europe he appears to be tens of times more popular than he is in the States. Television also appears to have more semblance of debate in, say, England, than in the US, likely because there are greater resources for public television.

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 06:54 (twenty years ago)

two months pass...
APRIL 13, 2005: Announcing a new platform for internet television and video. Anyone can broadcast full-screen video to thousands of people at virtually no cost, using BitTorrent technology. Viewers get intuitive, elegant software to subscribe to channels, watch video, and organize their video library. The project is non-profit, open source, and built on open standards. Today we're announcing the project and releasing our current sourcecode. The software is launching in June.

participatoryculture.org

Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Friday, 29 April 2005 03:05 (twenty years ago)

I wouldn't say this idea is banal, trivial or badly thought out.

Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Friday, 29 April 2005 11:20 (twenty years ago)

The nature is BitTorrent is the cause of:

Subscribe to channels: videos download in the background and the player notifies you when they're ready to watch.

Which is the opposite of television. They're describing a very quick NetFlix there.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 29 April 2005 11:28 (twenty years ago)

Jerry Mander to thread!

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 29 April 2005 11:40 (twenty years ago)

It's the transmission of moving images with accompanying sound, but there are no electromagnetic waves used for reconversion of received waves into visual images, I don't know if it makes it the opposite of television, or 1/4 or half way in the other direction.

"television" is a pop word, that I think is applicable. Also, that project will surely evolve along with internet technologies, making the distinctions between traditional tv and net tv more subtle than they are now.

Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Friday, 29 April 2005 11:45 (twenty years ago)

five months pass...
The Echo Chamber Project is an open source, investigative documentary about the how the television news media became an uncritical echo chamber to the Executive Branch leading up to the war in Iraq.

By developing collaborative techniques for producing this film, then this project can potentially provide some solutions for incorporating a broader range of voices and perspectives into the mainstream media.

http://www.echochamberproject.com/

Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 15:45 (twenty years ago)

three years pass...

TROY PATTERSON <3 <3 <3

in tranny mariah (Matt P), Monday, 20 July 2009 17:57 (sixteen years ago)

Where The T.O. Show is almost comforting in its banality, Keyshawn Johnson: Tackling Design (A&E, Saturdays at noon ET) is mildly bizarre in its. It seems that the three-time Pro Bowler has developed a keen interest in interior decorating and launched a firm to express that interest. Committed to his aesthetic principles, Johnson must battle difficult clients who don't understand the importance of contrast or the potential of wallpaper. Especially passionate about window treatments, he talks with his index fingers about a cornice as if doing a postgame analysis of a cornerback. "The tufting is a bit much," he says of a sofa. What does that rug do the room, Keyshawn? "It brings everything together." At one point, he sends a subordinate on a slipcover-related mission with the parting words, "You need some help finding some places, just look at the navigation on the phone." The AT&T Navigator duly directs the kid to an establishment called Sofa U Love. Why did he not just call the store? Flag down. Offensive product placement—15-yard penalty.

in tranny mariah (Matt P), Monday, 20 July 2009 17:59 (sixteen years ago)

yeah one of the best TV writers around today imo. really nice guy in person too.

rip dom passantino 3/5/09 never forget (max), Monday, 20 July 2009 18:08 (sixteen years ago)

do you guys all hang out

the meth got me open like challopian tubes (s1ocki), Monday, 20 July 2009 20:34 (sixteen years ago)

nine months pass...

Can anyone point me to some good websites? I have no idea where to look, besides the generally weak TV Squad. The Onion AV Club can't be the only game in town.

Nhex, Friday, 23 April 2010 05:30 (fifteen years ago)

Alan Sepinwall

jaymc, Friday, 23 April 2010 13:01 (fifteen years ago)

He's pretty good! Any other suggestions?

Nhex, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 00:00 (fifteen years ago)

Newt Minnow?

Aimless, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 00:54 (fifteen years ago)

there's Videogum . . . which I don't read . . . but you might want to check it out? maybe?

ksh, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 00:58 (fifteen years ago)

ilx tv threads

max, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 00:59 (fifteen years ago)

I took a quick look at Videogum, and... not really what I'm looking for, in terms of the quality of writing.

Nhex, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 01:42 (fifteen years ago)

loooool. understood

ksh, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 01:45 (fifteen years ago)

i like Alan Sepinwall, but he's part of the "30 Rock is unfunny now" crew that makes me all >:(

the international mooncake trade (reddening), Tuesday, 27 April 2010 02:12 (fifteen years ago)

Steve Rubio writes regularly and thoughtfully about television.

clemenza, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 02:16 (fifteen years ago)

i think i saw nathan rabin buying a burrito the other day, i don't know why i have the information required to recognize this either, and for a half second i thought it would be kind of funny if i just completely left normal society behind forever and started going off on him about 30 rock

A B C, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 02:29 (fifteen years ago)

or you know, if i just told some random bald guy that he needs to let someone who enjoys 30 rock review it

A B C, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 02:29 (fifteen years ago)

tim goodman's "spoiled bastard" is pretty good in an "i am secretly an aspiring script writer" way

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 27 April 2010 11:42 (fifteen years ago)

two years pass...

hey can i ask a tuomasy question?

"the internet", tumblr, blogs, etc. are BRIMMING OVER with a very specific kind of screencap-trading fandom of TV, moments from shows, specific interactions, all captioned. for ex:

http://i.imgur.com/xNgLL.png

some of it is gifs too, obv, and also drawn from movies, but the things i'm thinking of seem TV-focused

what i'm wondering is: the style and layout of (a lot of) these things seems p strictly done, down to the fonts and all. where are these originating? who is putting these together? is it "twop" or w/e? C/D?

i feel like i've suddenly run into an internet practice in full bloom.

pvmic bellvm (goole), Wednesday, 27 June 2012 17:11 (thirteen years ago)

i think it's just kind of a (probably inevitable) outgrowth of screencapping becoming the default way to reproduce/share/riff on things from TV now that uploading anything from a major network to YouTube gets pulled pretty much automatically

some dude, Wednesday, 27 June 2012 17:15 (thirteen years ago)

you think so? i think these have an enjoyable brevity all their own. embedded yt's, let alone the non-yt clip services the networks use, are way more cumbersome than these multi-panel things.

reducing a minute-long stretch of TV to a comic strip! i feel like i could "watch" a whole episode of something this way tbh.

pvmic bellvm (goole), Wednesday, 27 June 2012 17:20 (thirteen years ago)

i dont know where the style really comes from but i think the "storyboard" comes from tumblr -- if you upload multiple images/gifs in one post they give you a couple ways to present them all

max, Wednesday, 27 June 2012 17:23 (thirteen years ago)

you think so? i think these have an enjoyable brevity all their own. embedded yt's, let alone the non-yt clip services the networks use, are way more cumbersome than these multi-panel things.

reducing a minute-long stretch of TV to a comic strip! i feel like i could "watch" a whole episode of something this way tbh.

― pvmic bellvm (goole), Wednesday, June 27, 2012 1:20 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

well i think sure it has levels of appeal that have probably contributed to the popularity of the practice, but i think the changing nature of using a big corporation's 'intellectual property' can still also be a big initial factor

some dude, Wednesday, 27 June 2012 17:25 (thirteen years ago)

the answer is livejournal. i'm sorry.

Nhex, Wednesday, 27 June 2012 22:39 (thirteen years ago)

Somebody has to subtitle the caps, uploading or embedding a vid is way easier!

Moves Like Zappa (Leee), Thursday, 28 June 2012 01:11 (thirteen years ago)

ahhhh, livejournal

pvmic bellvm (goole), Thursday, 28 June 2012 01:38 (thirteen years ago)

five months pass...

HitFix started what looks a lot like a Pazz & Jop for TV:
http://www.hitfix.com/tvcriticspoll

Sax Blatterday (jaymc), Monday, 17 December 2012 20:35 (thirteen years ago)

Sherlock in the Top 10? Huh. I should get back to that series.

Nhex, Monday, 17 December 2012 20:40 (thirteen years ago)

Thx for the link

Nhex, Monday, 17 December 2012 20:40 (thirteen years ago)

i couldn't believe this when i found it but Clive James has put his own entire collected tv crit books online as they are out of print!
classy move http://www.clivejames.com/books/critichome

piscesx, Monday, 17 December 2012 20:46 (thirteen years ago)

Sherlock so high because NYT put it at number 1. It was a...strange list.

Gukbe, Monday, 17 December 2012 21:10 (thirteen years ago)

HitFix started what looks a lot like a Pazz & Jop for TV

tubgirl.jpg

epic album: the pluto (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 17 December 2012 22:37 (thirteen years ago)

Huh. OK.

Sax Blatterday (jaymc), Monday, 17 December 2012 22:38 (thirteen years ago)

one year passes...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/06/24/barry_frost_lee_thompson_young_death_on_rizzoli_isles_how_showrunner_jan.html

a really medium-specific problem for tv, how to deal with the deaths of actors in ongoing productions

j., Wednesday, 25 June 2014 15:29 (eleven years ago)

it's a sad story about that actor. also weird - he was in Flash Forward where his character committed suicide

Nhex, Wednesday, 25 June 2014 15:38 (eleven years ago)

eleven years pass...

In another depressing sign of the state of arts criticism, Rolling Stone just laid off Alan Sepinwall.

jaymc, Tuesday, 16 September 2025 04:05 (three months ago)

I would've assumed he was one of their most highly-read writers

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 16 September 2025 08:30 (three months ago)


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.