If God made everything, who made God?

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Assuming there is a god (a prefectly reasonable assumption, even though there isn't).

― mei (mei), Friday, 23 July 2004 08:56 (twenty-one years ago)

And with that assumption, there's no reason that he/she/it would need to obey logic or the laws of causality.

― mei (mei), Friday, 23 July 2004 08:56 (twenty-one years ago)

My answer is:

The question says god made everything so, assuming _that's_ true, god made god.

― mei (mei), Friday, 23 July 2004 08:57 (twenty-one years ago)

My question is, if God exists, does it mean anything?

I mean, even if every speck of say, fundamental Christianity, is 100% true, I don't understand how that answers the question "What is the meaning of life?" It doesn't even really shift the question. I'm still left with the fact that there is no reason for there to be something rather than nothing, God or not. "Does God exist?" => "Why does God exist?"

― Melissa W (Melissa W), Friday, 23 July 2004 09:03 (twenty-one years ago)

there is no god, we made the idea of god

― lukey (Lukey G), Friday, 23 July 2004 09:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Simon Cowell.

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 23 July 2004 09:18 (twenty-one years ago)

NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooo.............

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 23 July 2004 09:18 (twenty-one years ago)

ALIENS

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Friday, 23 July 2004 09:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Gods mum and dad

― Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 23 July 2004 10:03 (twenty-one years ago)

eve

― Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Friday, 23 July 2004 10:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I just made a cigarette, I expect I'm somewhat beyond it's ability to comprehend

― Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 23 July 2004 10:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I asked my mum that question when I was four and she couldn't give me an answer.

― Madchen (Madchen), Friday, 23 July 2004 10:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Duder, "God" is like totally a fractal. There is a God that made God that made us who are God. Like TOTALLY.

― wake n bake (nickalicious), Friday, 23 July 2004 12:37 (twenty-one years ago)

He bootstrapped his way to power.

― j e r e m y (x Jeremy), Friday, 23 July 2004 12:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Dog?

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Friday, 23 July 2004 13:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Chicken?

― C J (C J), Friday, 23 July 2004 13:16 (twenty-one years ago)

who made who

― kephm, Friday, 23 July 2004 13:17 (twenty-one years ago)

If he's supposed to be omnipotent, I suppose he made himself.

Headache now.

― C J (C J), Friday, 23 July 2004 13:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I've smoked about 5 cigs since before and I'm still OTM

― Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 23 July 2004 13:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually Andrew I was going to post before that you were OTM but i retracted for some reason.
I completely agree with you, that's why robots will never ever take over the world from humans.

oh right thats why I didn't post this.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 23 July 2004 13:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Robots come from us! We came from GOD! Etc

― Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 23 July 2004 13:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Except he's BEYOND ALL WE KNOW AND CAN KNOW etc

― Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 23 July 2004 13:29 (twenty-one years ago)

kephm otm

The video game says "Play me"
Face it on a level but it takes you every time on a one on one
Feeling running down your spine
Nothing gonna save your one last dime cause it owns you
Through and through

The databank knows my number
Says I gotta pay cause I made the grade last year
Feel it when I turn the screw
Kicks you round the world, there ain't a thing that it can't do
Do to you

Who made who, who made you?
Who made who, ain't nobody told you?
Who made who, who made you?
If you made them and they made you
Who picked up the bill, and who made who?
Who made who, who turned the screw?

Satellites send me picture
Get it in the eye,
take it to the wire
spinning like a dynamo
Feel it going round and round
Running out of chips, you got no line in an 8-bit town
So don't look down, no

Ain't nobody told you, who made who?

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 23 July 2004 13:36 (twenty-one years ago)

did you make mankind after we made you? and the devil too!

― caitlin hell (caitxa), Friday, 23 July 2004 13:41 (twenty-one years ago)

if all god made was us and the world then we must be better than god because god never made a playstation 2.

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 23 July 2004 13:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not a woman, I'm not a man, I am something that you'll never understand.

― God (Barima), Friday, 23 July 2004 13:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Isn't it a bit of a cop-out to keep insisting the answer is beyond the comprehension of humans?

― C J (C J), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Um it just seems obvious, to me. How could it be w/in our understanding? Really? Since when are humans so terribly bright?

― Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, it's 2004 AD. We haven't done a great job of finding that answer, have we?

x-post

― R.I.M.A. (Barima), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

it's sort of a silly question for everyone though, people that believe have their answer and people that don't believe say we made god, so there isn't a universal answer. right? this is also a cop-out.

― caitlin hell (caitxa), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't particularly believe but if a GOD does exist the idea of us being able to even begin to comprehend any aspect of it seems ridiculously arrogant

― Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Moderator, lock creation.

― R.I.M.A. (Barima), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:12 (twenty-one years ago)

He never listens

― Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:13 (twenty-one years ago)

what if mods were one of us? just a stranger on the bus trying to make his way home?

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Wait, which religion/mythology we talking about?
Cos if its Zeus the answer's easy: Rhea and Cronos.

― de, Friday, 23 July 2004 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)

de wins

― Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:20 (twenty-one years ago)

he doesn't win because it's the same question then, who made rhea and cronos? this sucks.

― caitlin hell (caitxa), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:22 (twenty-one years ago)

No no no that's easy too - Uranus and Gaia sired Cronos and Rhea.

― de, Friday, 23 July 2004 14:26 (twenty-one years ago)

God wasn't created. He always was.

― St. Nicholas (Nick A.), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Just be, maaannnnn.

― R.I.M.A. (Barima), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:31 (twenty-one years ago)

(it is kind of funny how humans imagine since the state of creation ie birth applies to to the life on their planet it must apply to a godlike being; you just have to study the universe to see how it may be concievable that things may have an existence predicated on entirely different rules)

― Masked Gazza, Friday, 23 July 2004 14:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Check the mofo's own name:
YWYH
"I AM WHAT I AM"
That's it.

― sexyDancer, Friday, 23 July 2004 14:37 (twenty-one years ago)

You know what I mean. God created time, and arguably time didn't exist until God created the sun and moon and earth, so prior to that God just was. He existed outside of time and thus His 'creation' is moot.

― St. Nicholas (Nick A.), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:38 (twenty-one years ago)

"You know what I mean"

if this is to me i wasn't responding to you dude; it was more to
the thread poster :- )

― Masked Gazza, Friday, 23 July 2004 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm just having such a hard time getting my head around the idea that there was no "starting point", that's all.

― C J (C J), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Well I guess yr not God, see?

― Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

That's because your brain is limited by the size of said head.

x-post

― Masked Gazza, Friday, 23 July 2004 14:46 (twenty-one years ago)

"if a GOD does exist the idea of us being able to even begin to comprehend any aspect of it seems ridiculously arrogant "

Of course humans can't even begin to comprehend, but you are also neglecting that God is powerful enough to gives us some comprehension. It's in general and special revelation.

As for existance of God,theres the ontological, cosmological, teleological, and moral proofs. that are all fairly strait forward.

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah I can understand them

― George Strait, Friday, 23 July 2004 14:47 (twenty-one years ago)

http://matrix.thescarymonkeyshow.com/images/architect.jpg

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 23 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

the egg, right?

― Ian c=====8 (orion), Sunday, 25 July 2004 02:16 (twenty-one years ago)

My mom said God is like a ring, with no beggining or end.

― David Allen (David Allen), Sunday, 25 July 2004 02:51 (twenty-one years ago)

how can time not exist? i'm thinking about it and it's making me mad.

david, that's like the girl scout song: "the earth is round, it never ends, that's how long i want to be your friend!" so it makes me feel warm inside.

― Maria (Maria), Sunday, 25 July 2004 03:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I still think my response was cleverest.

― j e r e m y (x Jeremy), Sunday, 25 July 2004 03:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Time is a construct of man.

― David Allen (David Allen), Sunday, 25 July 2004 03:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Who cares? Why ruin a little mystery? Let's just bask in the wonderful shiny power of willful ignorance. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Isn't it a bit of a cop-out to keep insisting the answer is beyond the comprehension of humans?

I always kinda thought this was the whole point of the god-meme: a place to put all the stuff we can't figure out.

― Evanston Wade (EWW), Sunday, 25 July 2004 04:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Man is a construct of time.

― rearranging sentences is the fun! (Oops), Sunday, 25 July 2004 04:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Tam is a construct of Mime:

http://www.samanthafeinstein.com/images/mime.jpg

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 25 July 2004 07:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Did He smile His work to see?
Did He who made the lamb make thee?

― weather1ngda1eson (Brian), Sunday, 25 July 2004 07:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Time is a construct of man.

Argh. I've spent way too many months trying to explain that very concept to stupid people. They go 'nah, time exists' and then pull out mentalist things like science books and go 'SEE?? PROOF!!1' i.e. completely missing my fucking point.

Who made god? Which god?

― That's the Way (uh huh uh huh) I Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Sunday, 25 July 2004 08:03 (twenty-one years ago)

x-post
now, now, posting Blake is cheating.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Sunday, 25 July 2004 08:10 (twenty-one years ago)

God didnt make the universe - the universe itself is "god" (though thats not a phrase I like using).

But then, I'm a taoist, so I would think that.

― Trayce (trayce), Sunday, 25 July 2004 08:32 (twenty-one years ago)

BAROOK SPINOZA SED DAT 2 LIEK 200 YRS AGOW

I RILLY RILLY HART TRACE U R AWE SUM

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Sunday, 25 July 2004 08:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Only One Substance existeth etc - somewhat of a Trayceish x-post but godamnit yes I R staying away from this thread for the "time being"

― Vic, Sunday, 25 July 2004 08:38 (twenty-one years ago)

What's odd about cosmology - the scientific versh of the universe's origins - is that elements of it are *just as* problematic as the religious explanations it purports to replace.

E.g. Us Honest, Inquisitive, Oridnary Men and Women in the Street: "What happened before the Big Bang?"

Stephen Hawking and his Chums: "There was no before".

Er....

I'm not syaing that this is a reason to prefer religious explanations over scientific ones, or even that we should run with the Biblical until the scientific gives us clearer answers, just that it's, well, odd

― MarkH (MarkH), Sunday, 25 July 2004 12:21 (twenty-one years ago)

if we ever get to escape linear time, we haven't we done it already?

― m. (mitchlnw), Sunday, 25 July 2004 13:08 (twenty-one years ago)

My problem with thinking of time as a manmade concept is that it looks to me like things happen in succession. When one thing couldn't have happened if this other thing hadn't happened, and this other thing hadn't happened at some point and then it did, how could the one thing happen if there's no real time? (Good for you if you made it through that.) If you're arguing that every event really has and has not happened at all points and time is just our illusion for organizing it all, then I throw up my hands and say "whatever," because how do you know?

― Maria (Maria), Sunday, 25 July 2004 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Maria, at just about any single argument in this thread you could just throw up your hands and say "how do you know?" and that'd be it. Nobody has any clue.

Except for the architect of course.

― David Allen (David Allen), Sunday, 25 July 2004 16:13 (twenty-one years ago)

What's odd about cosmology - the scientific versh of the universe's origins - is that elements of it are *just as* problematic as the religious explanations it purports to replace.
E.g. Us Honest, Inquisitive, Oridnary Men and Women in the Street: "What happened before the Big Bang?"

Stephen Hawking and his Chums: "There was no before".

Er....

-- MarkH (mark_e_heste...), July 25th, 2004.

Yeah, that's always irked me.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 25 July 2004 16:18 (twenty-one years ago)

What's odd about cosmology - the scientific versh of the universe's origins - is that elements of it are *just as* problematic as the religious explanations it purports to replace.

It would be, as it was man that created explanations about the universe just so they could try to create order from processes that current society couldn't possibly understand (think what Galileo had to go though, just cause he dared say going round the world wasn't a suicide mission).

[Get any of that;>?]

Christianity is all about trying to account for a being that no one can be 100% sure exists. (Those that believe have a right to believe in whomever they want; I just wonder whether that belief sohuld be automatic]

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Sunday, 25 July 2004 16:46 (twenty-one years ago)

God made the seas
God made the lakes
God made you
But we all make mistakes

(apropos of nothing, I just wanted to post it)

― MarkH (MarkH), Sunday, 25 July 2004 16:57 (twenty-one years ago)

"Who made god? Which god?"

In the question g is capitalized meaning a proper name (in English) of the monothestic "I AM WHAT I AM" God who is perfect, omnipotent, omniscient creator and ruler of the universe. A god (lowercased) is a made by man, and there are many.

"Maria, at just about any single argument in this thread you could just throw up your hands and say "how do you know?" and that'd be it. Nobody has any clue."

not for mine, my answer to how do you know is: "God is powerful enough to gives us some comprehension. It's in general and special revelation. " comprehension is not 100%, but faith can be, and it is automatic in the sense that God elects the person.

― A Nairn (moretap), Sunday, 25 July 2004 18:05 (twenty-one years ago)

does God (big G) make sense in a post Darwin world anyway? That to me is the big question. In a pre-Darwinian world, with a 6-day creation and a 4460 BC on a Tuesday creation date, re Bishop Ussher, he certanly does. But now we have to consider poor old lonely God, sitting around twiddling his thumbs for 99.9999999% of the universe's history with no-one to talk to, until evolution finally provides him with a sentient being who can chat to him. Although the phrase God-botherer would suggest that actually he enjoyed the peace and quiet and was sorry when it ended!

― MarkH (MarkH), Sunday, 25 July 2004 18:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I guess my problem with all this is that people seem to be stuck on using a Judeo-Christian conception of God to define this debate.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 25 July 2004 21:33 (twenty-one years ago)

lance armstrong made god.

― cºzen (Cozen), Sunday, 25 July 2004 21:34 (twenty-one years ago)

That not-Donald-Sutherland architect dude up above ... my b/f works with his nephew. He saw not-donald-sutherland in the social security queue a couple of months back.

I love St Kilda.

― Trayce (trayce), Sunday, 25 July 2004 21:35 (twenty-one years ago)

(think what Galileo had to go though, just cause he dared say going round the world wasn't a suicide mission).

A pedant writes: that wasn't what the Church didn't like about Galileo's work. They were happy with the idea that the world was round; what they didn't like was the Copernican system; and particularly, that Galileo had discovered the first known objects (the moons of Jupiter) that definitely didn't orbit the Earth.

― caitlin (caitlin), Sunday, 25 July 2004 21:38 (twenty-one years ago)

lance armstrong made god.
-- cºzen (coze...), July 25th, 2004.

I POSTED THE SAME THING, WE ARE SIBLINGS IN JOKE NOW:

Lance Armstrong.
-- latebloomer (posercore24...), July 23rd, 2004.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 25 July 2004 21:40 (twenty-one years ago)

neither of us are funny. : /

― cºzen (Cozen), Sunday, 25 July 2004 21:43 (twenty-one years ago)

True. But we are united in our suckiness!

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 25 July 2004 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

: D

― cºzen (Cozen), Sunday, 25 July 2004 21:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I could throw up my hands at any point and say that, but I think "time is a human construct, why can't people just get that already?" is sort of begging me to ask why I DON'T get it, is it supposed to be self-evident like God's supposed to be?

God made the seas
God made the lakes
God made you
But we all make mistakes

In marching band, we chant that, only instead of "you" we insert "Amherst."

― Maria (Maria), Monday, 26 July 2004 00:42 (twenty-one years ago)

god created dinosaurs, dinosaurs go extinct, man creates dinosaurs, man becomes god.

god always was is very fred hoyle.

― keith m (keithmcl), Monday, 26 July 2004 00:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Maria - the fact things occur in what seems a linar progression is fine, but the concept of time - a measurable thing, the hours/minutes/sun rotation/calendar etc is all a manmade construct that sits atop this.

I dunno, time being a manmade thing seems quite clear to me. Its like the colour red having the word "red" assigned to it. Sure, the colour exists anyway, but it being red is something man invented.

― Trayce (trayce), Monday, 26 July 2004 00:52 (twenty-one years ago)

When you think about it, it's no more absurd, from the perspective of consciousness, to tell someone that there was no time before the Big Bang than it is to tell them that there was time before they were born. ie, the inability to consciously perceive of something does not predicate whether or not it is likely to exist or not exist.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Monday, 26 July 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Trayce is closest here in that time is a label to show the effect of growth/ageing/decaying and so on.

These processes happen to all universal objects who simply just don't go around braggin on about it being called 'time' or whittering on about what happened x moments ago. More importantly they don't hold the completely absurd misconception that it just might be possible to go back in 'time'. good grief.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 26 July 2004 08:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I just want to clarify that what I posted above is not necessarily what I believe, but what I thought a person who believed in a Judeo-Christianic God might believe. And I think we're mostly answering from a Judeo-Christianic viewpoint because 1. I'm guessing that's the cultural background that a majority of us come from, and 2. Most other religions have a more specific story about who made their gods.

― St. Nicholas (Nick A.), Monday, 26 July 2004 14:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Well then that's just silly to say that man invented time. By the same logic, man invented Earth and dogs and water and orgasms and....

― oops (Oops), Monday, 26 July 2004 20:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I think what they're implying is that man's experience of time (or what man refers to as time) is a construct of the brain.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Monday, 26 July 2004 20:03 (twenty-one years ago)

What isn't?

― oops (Oops), Monday, 26 July 2004 20:04 (twenty-one years ago)

If time is only a construct of the brain, does this mean if we change our way of thinking we can move back in time?

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 26 July 2004 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

(That's only a rhetorical question, btw.)

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 26 July 2004 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Sure, ever remember?

― sexyDancer, Monday, 26 July 2004 20:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm going to go back in memory to 1985 and load up on Microsoft stock.

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 26 July 2004 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I remember when I did that, why am I not rich now?

― A Nairn (moretap), Monday, 26 July 2004 20:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Is a linear progression of events man's invention, though? Because if things happen in sequence, then time exists independently of us, I think. Measurements and labels, yeah, those are manmade concepts. (I am really excited in case somebody's going to tell me, No! Time really doesn't exist! This may not happen, though.)

― Maria (Maria), Monday, 26 July 2004 21:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Bible says God is the Alpha and the Omega, literally the first and the last therefore it seems that no one made him, he's just always been.

― Katherine Alice O'Brien (ipsofacto), Monday, 26 July 2004 22:43 (twenty-one years ago)

If some time goes by in the woods, does anyone hear it?

― A Nairn (moretap), Monday, 26 July 2004 23:01 (twenty-one years ago)

If a bunch of people get together to discuss God, does anyone's mind really change?

― Girolamo Savonarola, Monday, 26 July 2004 23:36 (twenty-one years ago)

So if time is just a human perspective, maybe God hasn't actually made God yet.

― dave225 (Dave225), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 00:01 (twenty-one years ago)

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