"It can be very unpleasant to get called to a room to be met by a naked man."

What, like, the back of a VW?

(sorry sorry... I'll get me coat)

But this is also *hotel* staff, and I wonder how many of the scenarios have been instigated by international visitors....

I don't mean to condone the behavior, just the reaction. It seems like it is certainly more complicated than porn = bad.

I mean, if you're assuming the premise that these men are behaving this way because of restrictive porn laws and therefore some deep sexual repression, that's dubious. If they're in a hotel, they're likely there on business, and drunken businessmen act the same all over the world, regardless of the country's porn laws. And given that, tightening the porn laws will have no more effect than loosening them. Pornography is pretty light in this, I suspect. It's probably more to do with a worldwide business culture that keeps men away from their wives for long periods of time. And I guess the lesgislators in Norway are saying, "Yes, but with porn it's worse." You could just as easily argue that without the porn, it's worse. It's silly either way.

And even if ytou throw everything else out the door, the hotel scenario and the businessman away from his wife scenario, you're still trying to legislate male horniness. I really don't understand why they bother.

The hotel employee union in Norway is making pornography the issue here; my question really has to do with why they would. Is it the "safe" target? Is the economy dependent enough upon international business relations or are they simply so polite that they would avoid criticizing specific populations of businessmen? Are they certain that no further laws will be passed and just trying to bring the problem some public attention? Is this all just a roundabout way of asking the world, "please, I know we're blonde, but could you please keep your pants on?"

Sorry, but I think you're totally wrong here, and I'd bet the law (at least in the U.S.) thinks so too. Nobody should be forced to deal with demeaning conditions as an aspect of employment. Or as an aspect of employment, even. If the dude is horny and lonely, he should hit the hotel bar and try chatting up someone (and then exposing himself, if it gets to that point in a consensual manner). Assaulting a hotel employee is NOT kosher.

Sorry, but ha bloody ha. I don't mean this just in usual whiny way -- "Oh, my cubicle job is so demeaning!" -- I mean that most people who work service jobs in the US or anywhere else are accustomed to dealing with situations that the law in the strictest sense would frown on. What are you going to do? Deal with this human being like he's a human being, or sue him?

I mean that most people who work service jobs in the US or anywhere else are accustomed to dealing with situations that the law in the strictest sense would frown on. What are you going to do? Deal with this human being like he's a human being, or sue him?

if the choices are to either have your employer enforce the laws or quit because your employer won't, well most people will quit (getting flashed ain't worth minimum wage). That doesn't make it right. One reason I'm posting about this is that this thing happened to a female friend of mine who worked in a large chain hotel in Chicago, and because of attitudes like yours on the part of her employers, she had to quit.

But the patrons don't think they're in a public space -- the entire hotel industry is geared toward making you feel "at home." The line gets blurry (up to a point), and how do you reconcile making your patorons, especially out-of-town businessmen, feel comfortable with having your patrons not feel horny?

But this is a little more subtle than racism or sexism. The enemy here seems to be homan male sex drive, and the weird conditions that sometimes create odd forms of it. You have not yet refuted my point that most of these men are not dangerous, but merely offensive. They're ordinary men in unusual surroundings, and they must be tolerated to the point where they become an actual threat.

"Some have found themselves in the presence of men watching X-rated movies and several have been accosted," Eli Ljunggren said.

make me think it's a little bit more serious than you're making it out to be. The poor, oppressed male libido will not be damaged by, y'know, teaching some horny businessmen to behave by making them spend a night in the tank instead of the Marriot.

And by this I am not meaning to include you, Kenan!

Well, itr's ordinary for men to proposition women for sex, and it's ordinary for them to be inept and even offensive about it. What's so disturbing?

Kenan, imagine what it's like to BE that woman.

Is he foaming at the mouth and pointing a knife at her? For some reason the image I get is a chubby balding fellow having a hard time standing while mumbling something with the words "lonely" and "love" in it before falling on his ass and crawling over to the minibar for another Heineken, allowing ample time for escape...no less offensive, to be sure, but certainly less dangerous.

I don't get the sense that Kenan -- forgive me if this is not your point of view -- is negating the difficulty of the situation; on the contrary, he's putting a lot of trust in the hotel staff to handle it appropriately depending on the circumstances. Don't we all agree that the men are at fault here, regardless? Having the law in your corner is always a good thing, but does every situation require that we resort to it?

hstencil, it's just as ridiculous for me to imagine being *a* woman (let alone that one) as it is for you to do the same.

anyway, without empathy for other humans (esp. of different genders, races, etc.), how can we expect to see other humans as the same? That's what it boils down to. If you can't imagine how another person who is different from you might experience or interpret things, then I don't know what to tell you.

Keywords: AT WORK

But I haven't done that. Don't try to dehumanize me. I said that I can imagine a woman dealing with this situation in a way other than the one you propose.

But believe me, you dont have to be attacked at knifepoint, or even really attacked at all, to be raped.

But I'm sure thats an aside as I think we're effectively all on the same page here.

Certainly not -- you're absolutly right. There are ways in which women can feel threatened and victimized that men can't even fathom. I already granted hstencil his point about actual aggression. That's not appropriate. I just worry that a sure-to-be common situation in a hotel will be dealt with less thn appropriately, leading to more sexual castigation, more shame, more general misunderstanding.

i studied criminal law at uni last year. i was continually astonished by the amount of school-leaver law students (of both genders) who made negative comments about the need to corroborate women's evidence, their failure to understand the concept of "consent" and their apparent attitude that women "ask for it". so i think that the advertising campaign is long overdue and probably inadequate.

That said, in any situation like those described in the article, the decision to seek further assistance or prosecution should be in the hands of the hotel staff members that witnessed the event, and should be supported by the hotel itself and the law (and here training might be good, wouldn't it?).

But who knows? Perhaps all these things are indeed taking place in Norway and they're just sick of dealing with it so they're on the hunt for a scapegoat.

Personally, I think having porn in a hotel is a cool idea. I'm wondering if alcohol has more to do with this than the porn does??