Why are more celebrities rumoured to be gay than lesbian?

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If you read enough gossip rags/websites, you could easily throw together a list of 30 male celebrities who are closetly gay without thinking twice. You sat down, you could probably do a list of 60. But if you tried the same for lesbians, you'd get less than ten. Why is this? Are there more gay men in general? Are lesbians better at keep their dalliances secret than men? Are gay men more likely to enter showbiz than lesbians? Enquiring minds need to know.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I think there are a lot of reasons, chief among them is that men are assholes.

― Huck, Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:40 (twenty-one years ago)

There are more gay men in general, but that isn't the whole answer.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I think in general there is more attention paid to gay men than to lesbians, and this reflects on the celebrity rumor mill as well.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:42 (twenty-one years ago)

men are assholes

Can you elaborate on that? I think this is a really good question, and I'm kinda stumped. Certainly it has more to do with the collective desires of the public, rather than the celebrities themselves.

― Major McTwitch (kenan), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Being a lesbian is less transgressive and therefore less interesting?

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:43 (twenty-one years ago)

It often seems that men being with other men is a far darker taboo for mainstream (at least, American) culture than women being with other women. My suspicion is that A) men still are the dominant force in creating social issues, and B) straight men are often made very uncomfortable by the idea of mansex, but are generally quite pleased when presented with notions of ladies doin' it.

xpost fuck I hate when people say what I'm trying to in so fewer words.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:45 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost (less interesting to gossip hounds)

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Pink can go dancing with that Terminator 3 chick and make out with her and no one will bat an eyelash because it's cool. Angelina Jolie can do anyone she wants and it's hot. But it's still taboo for Tom Cruise and Robert Downey Jr carrying on together like a couple of...

I've said too much.

― Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)

i've been told (but i dont know where this comes from) that there are almost twice as many gay men as lesbians. this would explain a lot of it .

And I know lots of women that are flexibile in their sexuality in a way that most of my men friends arent. the guys i know are str8 or gay and rarely shift. the women though have been known to wander back and forth... does this help or simply further muddy your understanding?

― Anthony (Plato Guy), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, it likely has to due with gossip generally being more interesting if it is damaging to a someone's career. Being a lesbian is definitely more en vogue than being a homosexual male, which is often seen as highly emasculating and thus, more easily spread?

(xposts)

― dean? (deangulberry), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I wonder how much the staticness of male homosexuality (as opposed to the more dominant dynamicness of female homosexuality) is tied in with it's higher placement up the taboo ladder?

I love threads where the majority of the replies are questions themselves.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Being a lesbian is less transgressive and therefore less interesting?

Throughout history, gay men have usually been persecuted more than lesbians (and this isn't to say lesbians weren't persecuted). There are some examples of a country having an anti-sodomy law which only covers men, because lesbianism wasn't even thought of, or it was thought to be mostly harmless.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:49 (twenty-one years ago)

For real, where is the muffdiving legislation?

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:50 (twenty-one years ago)

And, more importantly, the sexy research?

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:50 (twenty-one years ago)

If fingers and tongues emitted sperm, lesbians would be in as much "trouble" as gay men.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:51 (twenty-one years ago)

We would all lose from muffdiving legislation (except the straight females and gay males, I guess).

― St. Nicholas (Nick A.), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:52 (twenty-one years ago)

And, because homosexual men were and are discriminated more, they probably have a bigger need to find strength in the gay identity and the gay community, which would explain the staticness Nickalicious was asking about.

(x-post)

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:52 (twenty-one years ago)

the british legislation (Labouchere amendment) from the mid 1800s was specifically targetted to gay men. at the time they didn't believe women (well, ladies) were capable of this kind of thing. Though i believe the release of Anal Lesbian Vixxxens 3 proved them wrong on that.

― Anthony (Plato Guy), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:53 (twenty-one years ago)

That's sort of what I was thinking, Tuomas, that, in the face of the greater persecution, maybe men-attracted-to-men are more willing to define themselves as Gay than women, for whom it's not such a sort of social battle unification thing.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I think being a bisexual woman is not seen as really serious or transgressive in pop culture. Being 100% dyke is another matter.

― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:54 (twenty-one years ago)

not if you're really femme.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:55 (twenty-one years ago)

This is actually not at all true, Stence (at least not from my observational experience).

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:55 (twenty-one years ago)

also for whatever reason IN GENERAL women tend to figure out they're gay later in life than men.

eh, I think that's debatable hstencil. Can we come up with an example of a femme celebrity?

― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:56 (twenty-one years ago)

hahaha yeah Dan I know. Just wanted to claim that Melissa Etheridge was "really femme" or some such nonsense.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:56 (twenty-one years ago)

the only really butch dyke celebrity I can think of is Rosie O'Donnell, and my has her star fallen since that crewcut.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I reckon there are more men (gay or straight) than women (gay or straight) in most high-profile professions.

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Another interesting question: now that homosexuality is legal (and accepted by the majority of people) and the image of a stereotypical gay man is gaining more and more ground in our popular culture, will lesbianism become more transgressive than male homosexuality. Or is it already?

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Can we come up with an example of a femme celebrity?

Alex Parks was the one I was thinking of.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Je4nne makes an excellent point. I'd also posit that there are probably more gay/lesbian people in the entertainment industry than in other industries here.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd say being a gay male is more transgressive than being lesbian, still. Though I think the objectification of lesbianism is a subject that needs serious examining, i.e. celebrities co-opting the connotations and titillation of lesbianism strictly for its value as a male fantasy (i.e. that damn MTV kiss).

― Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Teeny, yes, there is one super-femme celeb that came to mind immediately. And (how telling is this?) I forget her name. I think she was the first model to come out of the closet. I think she's African American. GODDAMN BAD MEMORY. (She's way hot, too.)

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:01 (twenty-one years ago)

STEPHANIE ADAMS!!!

― that's her name!!!! (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:02 (twenty-one years ago)

(And she was a Playboy centerfold, not a um, model, per se.)

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I've never heard of alex parks and hoo boy does a google image search prove you wrong, no offense Dom!

― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:03 (twenty-one years ago)

transgressive in relation to what?

― amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Isn't Jorja Fox (that actress recently fired from CSI) a lesbian?

― Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I take it back, she's not "way" hot. Oh hell, just go to goddessy.com to see her. (Safe for work.)

Yes, Gear, and she's back on the show.

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

If fingers and tongues emitted sperm, lesbians would be in as much "trouble" as gay men.

If fingers and tongues emitted sperm, we'd *all* be in trouble.

― caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Ahh good

― Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Erm, what part of "way hot" is she not (except maybe the hair)?

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:06 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah she's pretty much way hot.

― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:07 (twenty-one years ago)

In addition to everything already said, there's this: stereotype often has it that lesbians -- apart from the other sterotypical kind that are all like "oo, I'm a lesbian, watch me go down on my hot twin sister" -- are ugly. Stereotype also has it that gay men are often ridiculously good looking, in various preening, feminine ways. Celebrities tend to be very good looking. You can sort of follow the logic from there. I mean, in the end, most gay-celebrity rumors tend to have a public non-Hollywood life that's basically consists of guys looking at some star that chicks get wet over and going, "Pfft, c'mon, look at his hair, that dude's totally gay."

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:09 (twenty-one years ago)

If the Playboy type is your type, then she's way hot, I suppose.

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:10 (twenty-one years ago)

But I am having a very hard time thinking of another uber-femme dyke celebrity.

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Anne Heche is probably the femmiest mainstream-celeb lesbian I can think of.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:13 (twenty-one years ago)

she's married to a boy now.

― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the most celebrities said to be gay are performers of some sort, mainly actors or musicians. And the performing arts and male homosexuality seem to have a closer link, at least stereotypically, than performing arts and lesbianity. Why is this, I'm not sure.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:14 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, Anne Heche was pretty femme even with the pixie cut.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:15 (twenty-one years ago)

See I think legions of lesbian folk singers prove that wrong, Tuomas--and many are not interested in finding success outside of womens' circles. It's quite transgressive for a woman to say she doesn't need a man in any sense--romantic artistic or economic.

― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Sure there are exceptions, Teeny, but I was making a huge generalization there, and I don't think your example proves it wrong.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:19 (twenty-one years ago)

there are plenty of lesbians in music who don't play folk.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:19 (twenty-one years ago)

and I don't mean to come down on people like Anne Heche or Angelina Jolie and say that their romances with women are not valid, just that they never explicitly make the statement to the public as a celebrity that they don't need men in their lives.

― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:20 (twenty-one years ago)

yes hstencil, I should have said that I was pointing out lesbian folk singers as a group that markets themselves to women exclusively, indigo girls and other crossover acts notwithstanding.

― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:22 (twenty-one years ago)

My point to Tuomas was that 'performing arts' is a really broad term, and I totally think nabisco's point holds on visual mediums but not non-visual ones.

― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:23 (twenty-one years ago)

why are there more gay men than lesbians? and is this indeed true?

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Nabisco OTM: the stereotypical people who spend a lot of time of their physical appearance are straight women and gay men, and most celebrities are pretty much duty-bound to spend a lot of time trying to look good.

Also, a close two-person female friendship is considered the straight norm in a way that close two-person male friendships often aren't. Two attractive young men in close physical contact (boyband bandmates, actors on the same film, etc) is more likely to make people think 'gay gay homosexual gay gay gay' than two attractive young women practically piled into one anothers' laps.

(and, yeah, Dom, you're wrong wrong wrong on calling The Lovely Alex Parks 'femme' - maybe she's not full-on butch, but androdykey at the very least. also cuuuuuuute. ...weren't there possibly-substantiated rumours about her and the girl out of Speedway? Who could be considered femme, if not quite as celeb.)

― cis (cis), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Okay, I thought about the connection between male homosexuality and the performing arts, and I had this sort of an idea, I'm not saying it's a correct one, just an idea. But anyway... Performing means making your body and personality open to to other folks, and doing this is more related to stereotypical "femininity" than "masculinity" - men like to keep to themselves. So perhaps gay men, stereotypically more "feminine", might find it easier to be a performer than straight men. Whereas lesbians, stereotypically more "masculine", might find it harder to perform than straight women.

(xxxpost)

Again, these are huge generalizations here, and I'm not sure if I'm making any sense.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:29 (twenty-one years ago)

where do you fit gay men doing non-performative (say, visual) art in, then?

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:30 (twenty-one years ago)

why are there more gay men than lesbians? and is this indeed true?

According to demographic studies it seems to be so. It may have to do with the identity politics discussed above.

Hstencil, that's another issue.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:32 (twenty-one years ago)

well yeah but statements like "Performing means making your body and personality open to to other folks" don't explain gay male artists like, say, Andy Warhol. (He's an especially interesting example considering he was into encouraging others to perform, but not into doing so himself.)

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:35 (twenty-one years ago)

It's 1:35 in here, I really should be in bed, and I don't think I can come up with any more theories. Sorry.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 21:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I would say that Melissa Etheridge's mid-twenties actress wife is pretty damn hot.

― Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 22:06 (twenty-one years ago)

who is the crazy lady actress who wandered into a palm springs residence all jacked up on MDMA?

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 22:15 (twenty-one years ago)

cis- Yeah, Alex and Her Out Of Speedway are Britain's first lesbian pop couple. I know she's not exactly "femme", but she's no way "butch", she seems part of that new-wave of mousyish lesbians that are sweeping Britain, the ones that are 50% Daria, 50% George from Famous Five.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 22:25 (twenty-one years ago)

That was Anne Heche wasn't it gygax?

― The Dreaded Rear Admiral (Leee), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 22:25 (twenty-one years ago)

adams' site is pretty funny. she wrote an astrology book named 'homoscopes'.

― Symplistic (shmuel), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 22:26 (twenty-one years ago)

who is the crazy lady actress who wandered into a palm springs residence all jacked up on MDMA?

margot kidder aka lois lane?

so many actresses do this!

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 22:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I think that was Anne Heche, talked about being kidnapped by aliens or something along those lines.

― Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 23:10 (twenty-one years ago)

yes, heche, she was already mentioned upthread. a very "enlightened" woman to further illustrate teeny's point with corroboration from gear!

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 23:13 (twenty-one years ago)

My aunt mentioned that story at a family dinner and announced that "lesbians is crazy". One of my cousins said "you're crazy, mom!" and everyone laughed, then someone else (can't recall who) said "Yeah but she's not a lesbian!" There was about a solid ten seconds of awkward silence, punctuated by a cough.

― Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 23:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Portia De Rossi is lesbian and pretty femme, at least on tv. I think she might be a bit more tomboyish IRL.

― Bryan (Bryan), Wednesday, 28 July 2004 00:47 (twenty-one years ago)

(Gia Carangi was a rather feminine-appearing lesbian.)
(You know, famous disco-era supermodel, Angelina Jolie played her, died of AIDS in '87, one of the first American females to succumb to AIDS.)
(But while she was alive, she was jaw-droppingly gorgeous.)

― Many Coloured Halo (Dee the Lurker), Wednesday, 28 July 2004 07:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Thank you, Bryan and Dee, for reminding me of the two names I was grasping for.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 28 July 2004 11:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Portia de Rossi is gay?! I never knew!

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Wednesday, 28 July 2004 13:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Jeanne, I think you have a goal for a celebrity date!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 July 2004 13:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Isn't she anorexic tho? Mmm.

― Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 28 July 2004 13:29 (twenty-one years ago)

If so, Jeanne can convince her to put a little more meat on her bones -- for Jeanne's delectation.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 July 2004 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)

it's pretty simple: there are way way more gay men than lesbians in entertainment. you can debate the reasons for this, but it's clearly the case. for example at a theater i've worked at, half the actors in the company are gay, but none of the actresses are lesbians. this is not atypical. i know dozens and dozens of gay actors, but really only a handful of lesbian actresses.

― artiste, Wednesday, 28 July 2004 13:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Eeew, I am so not hot for Portia. But thanks for thinking of me.

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Wednesday, 28 July 2004 14:19 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...

Cynthia Nixon, out and about.

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)

according to the daily news, she just signed on to play eleanor roosevelt. rowr!

― Cripps Pink (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 24 September 2004 17:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Miranda, a serious law-firm partner, generally was the voice of reason on the show, leaving the lesbian love roles and uninhibited sexcapades to pal Samantha Jones.

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Friday, 24 September 2004 17:40 (twenty-one years ago)

ouch.

― Cripps Pink (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 24 September 2004 17:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Good for Cynthia, man. I don't see why this is such hot-shit news. I mean, really....who cares? Let her do what she wants. She ain't hurtin' nobody.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 24 September 2004 18:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I like her. She was like the only tolerable person on that terrible, terrible show.

― n/a (Nick A.), Friday, 24 September 2004 18:34 (twenty-one years ago)

In related news...
Spunky Alberta-native Terri Clark recognized for promoting country music
NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Alberta-native Terri Clark has been honoured for promoting country music over the past year.
Clark received the Connie B. Gay Award from the Country Music Association on Wednesday for advancing media exposure of the CMA Music Festival and the CMA Awards.
“During the past year, Terri has repeatedly stepped up to serve CMA in a variety of ways far beyond what is normally expected of our artist members,” CMA board chairman Charlie Anderson said in a statement.
“She is a leader and a role model for artists in her ongoing support and commitment to our core initiatives at CMA.”
Clark’s hits include Girls Lie Too and Poor, Poor Pitiful Me.
Gay was a broadcaster and promoter of country music.
Past recipients of the award include Roy Acuff, Johnny Cash, Charlie Daniels, Martina McBride, Brad Paisley, Tex Ritter, Trisha Yearwood and Wynonna.

― Huk-L, Friday, 24 September 2004 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't see why this is such hot-shit news.

I was surprised. I actually thought she was already out.

― Cripps Pink (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 24 September 2004 19:14 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

Batwoman is a lesbian.

― Je4nn3 Æ’urÂ¥ (Je4nne Fury), Monday, 5 June 2006 17:21 (nineteen years ago)

Hmm.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/books/06/01/batwoman.uncloseted.ap/index.html

― Je4nn3 Æ’urY (Je4nne Fury), Monday, 5 June 2006 17:22 (nineteen years ago)

four years pass...

yay, partnered lesbian celebrities can act like dicks too!

― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Monday, 5 July 2010 14:06 (fifteen years ago)

???

― Tuomas, Monday, 5 July 2010 15:23 (fifteen years ago)

Is this a sales pitch for strap-on dildos?

― CONGO, M.D., Monday, 5 July 2010 19:27 (fifteen years ago)

sell themselves tbh

― good news if you wear cargo shorts (contenderizer), Monday, 5 July 2010 19:56 (fifteen years ago)

I'm guessing Morbs is referring to this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/03/tammy-lynn-michaels-melis_n_634926.html

― jaymc, Monday, 5 July 2010 20:36 (fifteen years ago)

nine years pass...

Michael Koresky on lesbian character comic/actor Patsy Kelly (who most of you would know from Rosemary's Baby; I've seen a number of her '30s shorts with Thelma Todd)

https://www.filmcomment.com/blog/queer-now-then-1943/

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 23 January 2020 16:54 (six years ago)

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