money!!!!

how can i stretch $12 to eat til friday afternoon

i have already stolen soup from my roommate and eaten like 4 doubletree cookies in the last 24 hours

i can help u

ramen

Try to find some local cheese and wine receptions you can gatecrash. And take a bag.

ramen!! so simple and right in front of me too i kiss u genius

don't you know how to cook beans?

Yikes! Sorry to hear that. FWIW, when she was in undergraduate, my wife was so cash-strapped that she ate at the Hare Krishna cafeteria from time-to-time. A quarter got her a plate of rice-and-beans, and in exchange, all she had to do accept some of their literature. (She never joined or remotely swayed to do so, BTW; and as I understand it, the food was pretty good). I'm sure inflation has pushed the meal-cost up some, but maybe there's something similar in your area?

Also, if this is the conspiracy theory roommate, just continue stealing he food, but tell him that it's the communists...

krakow you are reminding me i should dig out my copy of frugal indulgences that has many other suggestions to this very effect!!

harbl duh and as i have mason jars of both red and black i will prob make some tomorrow but dag i am hongry now and tired from a double :/

daniel i am searching for something to this effect now

yeah iirc the four food groups are beans, eggs, potatoes, and rice

If you have any postgraduate student or academic faculty friends at local universities or colleges then they should be good hook ups, always loads of catered receptions and meetings in academia that are easy to blag into, in my experience.

snoball its amazing this guy's grocery list is like

-3 frozen pizzas
-chips
-cheez its
-cookies
-soup
-beer
-hot wings
-microwave ribs

The soup is the only healthy thing on there! Well unless it was beer soup, in which case there wouldn't be anything healthy.

Actually it reminds me of a time when I was a student and was so short on food I tried to make potato soup with instant mash potato powder and much more water than usual. Absolutely disgusting...

If you have any postgraduate student or academic faculty friends at local universities or colleges then they should be good hook ups, always loads of catered receptions and meetings in academia that are easy to blag into, in my experience.

― krakow, Sunday, October 11, 2009 6:47 PM (3 minutes ago)

^great suggestion, if you lived near me i'd tip you off on the thousand pharmacy lunches we ahve every week

goddammit my box of change is all pennies

oh yo wait i get a lil money on weds i can totally rock this for 3 days

damn $4 a day is amazing

When you start to understand what money is, you lose all respect for it.

kind of surprised there's no big thread on money on ilx. or am i missing it in the search?

wanted to do a little money questionnaire:

how much do you care about money?
is there a limit to how much you'd want?
what do you think when people say "i'd never want that much money" or say they aren't interested in money?
has increased/decreased amounts of money in your life changed you?

plus any more money thoughts you have.

I try to be very responsible about money, pay every bill on time, etc. Comes from being a younger child maybe. Like, don't have unmanageable debt, etc.

I'm not the kind of person to want a lot of money, I'm not comfortable with that. However, I try really hard to stay afloat and modestly comfortable. I have a relative who had tens of thousands in credit card debt but because he is Mr. Corporate that's cool. He's "learning about money".

I freak out when I have a bill I can't pay, start rummaging around for stuff to auction.

how much do you care about money? I care about it, and I generally want more of it. Having cash on hand is nice, but have some savings is very comforting.
is there a limit to how much you'd want? No. I'll take all I can get.
what do you think when people say "i'd never want that much money" or say they aren't interested in money? Sure, that's fine, I can understand it. I do not feel that way.
Has increased/decreased amounts of money in your life changed you? probably not changed me personally, but it certainly makes things easier.

how much do you care about money?
- enough to not want to worry about it.
is there a limit to how much you'd want?
- probably not. If too much money became a problem you could give it away.
what do you think when people say "i'd never want that much money" or say they aren't interested in money?
- I think they are a) upset by greed and b) probably not worrying about money.
has increased/decreased amounts of money in your life changed you?
a) I've learnt that people can take advantage b) it's good to plan & budget.

I find money kind of embarrassing, whereas I am not embarrassed at all when I don't have it? Will happily admit to being broke or having to economize because I think people being able to get by with less is a good mode of thought and important to our survival/planet.

But I know that state is temporary and in a week or two I could choose to have sushi and a social life again, so it's not a real state. I know it's not like this when you're actually poor.

Increased amts of money have made me eat better and want more stuff, I guess. I try to mentally separate myself from the women who have very stylish clothes and this season's shoes because I don't want to start feeling pressure to compete w them, but it's inevitable to aspire to somewhat nicer things, at least for me.

should answer myself.

how much do you care about money? worrying about it is the worst thing really and i spend easily, so a lot i guess.

is there a limit to how much you'd want? not really, i don't think so anyway.

what do you think when people say "i'd never want that much money" or say they aren't interested in money? i always find this weird, which is why i asked, and i guess i don't believe them a lot of the time, though some people seem less interested in "stuff" than me for sure.

has increased/decreased amounts of money in your life changed you?

this is sort of why i asked, i feel like since i've reached a certain level in the last 6/7 months my habits have definitely changed, i guess just in the sense of going out for dinner more, buying clothes more, generally doing more expensive things. it's not me specifically but i wonder about these changes, ie if you look differently, do different things, do more things like holidays or activities or whatever, have you then changed?

maybe it's just reaching a certain watershed and it'd need a huge amount more to change again.

OK, this is probably a bad idea to answer this honestly, but anyway.

how much do you care about money?

A bit. It obviously bothers me if I don't have to cover the basic functions like food on the table and a roof over my head, but that's the only time it becomes intrusive. I have the ability - but also, I recognise, the privilege - to shrug and switch off worrying about money in a way that I don't have the ability about other things which might seem trivial to others, but have much more of an effect on my general happiness.

is there a limit to how much you'd want?

Yes, I think there is. And that's from observation of the 1%ers in my extended family, and people I went to school with, that beyond a certain level, more money doesn't actually make anyone happier. Sure, more money makes life smoother, and facilitates things. But there honestly does come a point where having so much money generates its own problems. And I don't mean that in a "omg poor rich ppl" kind of way, but there's a level of wealth - like a level of celebrity or anything else excessive - where it becomes problematic in people's relationships and ability to trust or even interact with others.

Not to mention that I have simple pleasures, and I've already reached the point in my salary progression where I am paid more money than I can think of ways to spend. Not that I'm hugely rich, I just don't have that much of a monetary imagination. I don't see the point of fancy restaurants, I'm not really into clothes or gadgets or expensive consumer goods, I don't drive, you eventually run out of new CDs and books to buy, and beyond that... I can't see the point of just having more ~things~ as I'm running out of space as it is.

what do you think when people say "i'd never want that much money" or say they aren't interested in money?

I think they probably have their priorities the right way round. I would tend to much more distrust people who were overly interested in money, to the exclusion of other things. Or people who are so avaricious for the point only of being avaricious that they can't imagine and end-point of how much money they want to have. Those people bother me, I know from experience.

has increased/decreased amounts of money in your life changed you?

Like I said, beyond a certain level of "I can pay my rent now", probably not. I mean, there is a level of anxiety that is removed when you just don't have to *think* about having the money to buy lunch. (But conversely, the more money you have, the more anxiety you have that you will lose it - which generates its own anxiety. I'm happy that I don't have to worry about paying my mortgage - but there is also the anxiety I never had before that I have to *keep up* a mortgage, and have lost the freedom to just up and move about that I used to have.)

I grew up in a weird household where we swung between extremes of having upper middle class large amounts of money and having absolutely zero, hiding the car so the repo man won't get it and begging relatives for jewellery to pawn no money. So what I learned, while growing up, was that money wasn't really something worth bothering that much about, that it will either be there, or it won't, so don't get fussed. And yes I do recognise the upper middle class boho "having relations that have jewellery to pawn" privilege in that attitude. But it just seems a way healthier attitude than the ppl in my family who are unhappily obsessed with the stuff. If that makes me a horrible person, then fair enough.

But I also think that £65 is too much to pay for a rock gig.

Maybe I'd be a happier person if I has so much money I didn't even think about it. But I don't ever want to be the kind of person that thinks £65 is a reasonable or even cheap amount of money to pay for a gig.

What a weird thing, money and one's own attitudes towards it.

Also: there is a thing that kinda explains my attitude in part C.

Time spent working in Financial Services made me realise that there is a level at which money stops being a tool, or a facilitator, and just starts being a kind of statscock.

Those people suck. Avoid them.

I would like to feel long-term financially secure and not have to think about rent and my bank account all the time but I don't feel like I ever need to make a considerable amount of money. outside of the mental security thing and maybe eating out a little more, I don't really have more things I need or want to spend money on.

I was lower-middle-class growing up, but I was often around people with a lot of money - giant houses, second homes, boats. It made me not want to have a lot of money. It made me realize what an enormous responsibility it is to be wealthy, it is easy to hate the wealthy, but it is a huge responsiblity - how to spend and invest, how to manage a company or employees.

I have family who are first- or second-generation American and being solidly middle class is new to them and a bit scary. I also have family who used to own or manage companies then lost all of their money. Makes you conservative about spending or making huge career moves.

If I ever get my act together, I'm going into real estate because I think it would be easier to manage. A lot of people think money = working up the corporate ladder, like a corporation or a bank.

how much do you care about money? not enough to want to do the things all my friends do to earn the amounts they do

is there a limit to how much you'd want? not strictly, but we're getting to the stage where we've set out a target income to achieve (as a couple) in order to eg be able to own a home, etc. i wouldn't really 'want' any more than that tbh.

what do you think when people say "i'd never want that much money" or say they aren't interested in money? depends on how much i know about them and how much money they have.

has increased/decreased amounts of money in your life changed you? i don't have any debt and don't have any savings. i woulnd't know how to answer this, i seem to spend what i have and don't really ever seem to know how. i'm not crippled and i don't think i'm extravagant either. ask me after another month in dublin i guess.

how much do you care about money?

a lot

is there a limit to how much you'd want?

probably? but i think its less about the amount than the kind of wealth thatd i say no to

what do you think when people say "i'd never want that much money" or say they aren't interested in money?

i think they dont understand money

has increased/decreased amounts of money in your life changed you?

yes, v much so

Increased amts of money have made me eat better and want more stuff, I guess. I try to mentally separate myself from the women who have very stylish clothes and this season's shoes because I don't want to start feeling pressure to compete w them, but it's inevitable to aspire to somewhat nicer things, at least for me.

Also in xp to myself: It was easier to be cavalier about not having "normal" things when I was younger. Not that I'm going to run out and change myself, but it gets a bit weird to other people when you don't have a couch/tv/computer/normal apartment/eat out/travel/whatever after 30. Or 35. Or, presumably, 40.

Like I just brought the guy I've been dating back to my apt the other week and he was...unimpressed. Which makes him a dick, kind of, because I've broken my back to get that place and improve it. But he's only a bit older than me and has a palatial apt with tons of electronics, furniture, everything custom, blah. It does make me suspect that I'll never measure up to other adults I might meet and want to appear well to.

i think they dont understand money

ha

all the happiness money buys is like, an illusion, man. seriously though, beyond necessities and savings I don't see much point in keeping up with consumer goods. strange the people who tell us these products, clothes, nice apartments, gym memberships, etc. will make us happy are the same people collecting our money. wonder what's going on with that.

studies show the happiness drops off after 70k

But he's only a bit older than me and has a palatial apt with tons of electronics, furniture, everything custom, blah

haha whenever i go to someones place and its super pricey im just like 'how on earth can you even afford this shit'

also tbf its almost always totally tasteless but thats a separate point

some stuff is nice, stuff that does what you want it to do and looks cool and doesn't break down, that stuff's expensive. i mainly get the other stuff.

how much do you care about money?

Enough so that I am able to recognize that while money alone can't make me happy a lack thereof can certainly make me unhappy.

is there a limit to how much you'd want?

idk - I could always give some away if I suddenly came into loads of it.

what do you think when people say "i'd never want that much money" or say they aren't interested in money?

i think they dont understand money < - - Lamp otm.

has increased/decreased amounts of money in your life changed you?

Not really, no. I grew up comfortably and as an adult have been all over the spectrum from pretty freaking poor to pretty comfortable albeit with a fair amount of debt from both graduate school and an international courtship that resulted in putting lots of trans-Atlantic flights on credit cards and I think I've been essentially the same person throughout. I don't want massive amounts of money or a huge house or whatever but I have sort of expensive taste and would like to live comfortably, eat well, and continue to travel and take my future children places so that they can see the world. Realistically I know that's not possible without a fair amount of money.

unless you are crazy-rich, i think it is very easy to move to a part of the world where you are suddenly middle-class again, if too much money is making you miserable. i guess the opposite is true, too. not gonna lie: have thought about buying up all of michigan.

So, is how wealthy or poor you feel attributable to social comparison? For me, in the past that's how I've seen it.

have thought about buying up all of michigan.

Don't even think about it, buddy.

i think they dont understand money

Or they might understand Money a lot better than you do.

all the happiness money buys is like, an illusion, man. seriously though, beyond necessities and savings I don't see much point in keeping up with consumer goods. strange the people who tell us these products, clothes, nice apartments, gym memberships, etc. will make us happy are the same people collecting our money. wonder what's going on with that.

Different strokes, etc. I will happily enjoy my illusion. I think my life without all the technology/electronics I've gotten over the years would be less fulfilling for me. Judge me however you wish, but it's true.

And really electronics is my biggest extravagance. I don't buy fancy food/clothes, eat out that much, or travel.

kind of misrepresenting some things there imo MB

Ppl want the money *and* the self determination. I could quit work tomorrow and survive on the dole.

Being paid 10x the amount to do a shitty job gives you a lot more freedom over your lifestyle in your life outside of that job, and possibly for how much longer you have to work in that shitty job.

The ppl being like 'i'd go back to university' (i was one of them) didn't mention getting salaried/earning jobs out of it afterwards- just the thought of studying interesting things without any such pressure while living well.

As someone who is descended from a long line of career academics, what you describe was, pretty much, the dictionary definition of career academic for about a thousand years, which has only really ended within the last generation or so.

And hasn't it ended spectacularly. < / works with academics >

the avenues towrds career academia relied on having either familial wealth, outstanding ability or a real relish for the risk of poverty tho! You have to admit that the removal of worries over costs and eventual outcomes adds attraction to the idea of leisurely studies

can this be generalised as thus?

take "working" to mean = obligation to do something in order to earn money

"money" to mean = the stuff that comes from "working" - a minimum amount is required for shelter and food to stay alive. extra amount can be used to buy things you don't need.

"hobby" to mean = doing stuff, could be same thing as "working", could even earn money, but without obligation

"time" to mean = i can't define time, but you have 24 hours of it a day and you spend it doing stuff such as "working" or "hobby" which can include sleeping. Everybody has the same amount each day (relative to your speed or whatever, einstein)

if you have lots of "money", then you don't have to "work" and so you have more "time" to do "hobby"

yes but every hour of doing 'hobby' becomes more expensive because you could be making more money instead

partly why rich people work even more hours than poor people these days

yes that's why the more money you have the more hours you can spend doing your hobby

xpost

is that true?

pretty sure many poor people work much longer hours than rich people

in america, today, it's true

i'm still doubtful. give me some examples

graph of 'hours worked' vs 'income' would be a v strange curve, p sure it wouldn't be a straight line tho.

I have this kind of instinctive feeling that no one has a right to that. (x-posts to Ken C) And it's actually really quite selfish and unjust to expect it.

And yes, I say that as someone who tried to make their hobby their job, and failed at it.

I don't know, it's complicated.

If you're competent at something, you deserve to get paid a decent wage for it. Beyond that, if you're not good enough to get paid for it, but if you still enjoy it enough to want to do it, then that's your business. The world owes you a living for useful work that you're competent at. The world does not owe you a living for a fun hobby you're kind of shit at.

I feel like we can quibble all day over the meaning of "competent" and the meaning of "decent wage" but... eh.

An ideal world would leave everyone with a balance of time spent "working" and time spent on "hobby" so that life is bearable, and this current world doesn't give that option to anyone but the children of the super rich. Which is vastly unjust. But I don't see that becoming super-rich solves that inherent unjustness.

"The world does not owe you a living for a fun hobby you're kind of shit at."

That's exactly it! This is why I want to amass enough of a fortune (doing things i am good at but not enjoy), in order to one day not have to do anything else apart from hobbies (things i'm crap at, but enjoy)

i'm still doubtful. give me some examples

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/opinion/02conley.html

not sure about that link

think: the man who is checking their blackberry to quickly check their email on labor day while out with their children at mcdonalds, and the person who is working at that mcdonalds for 8 hours on labor day that day.

For many people who are +interested+ in money, it is their hobby, as well as their job. Em's dad, for instance, runs a shoe shop (2, in fact), as a hobby adjunct to his weekday job (which involves way more than 9-5). The only other 'hobby' he has is reading the paper.

xp

well nobody said they enjoyed their jobs more. but people who work at mcdonalds are less likely to put in a 60 hour week than some investment banker or lawyer.

they would if they need the money to feed their kids.

Em's dad comes from a REALLY shitty, like, spectacularly shitty, background, though, from which money was an escape, and yes, I think he's obsessed with it, because he's had to be to get where he is. But it's had big emotional downsides on his family.

they would if they need the money to feed their kids.

Yeah, I feel like this is more because McD's, like most low wage employers, limits hours to avoid having to pay overtime and not because those people don't want to earn more money.

God, I am like Em's dad in that my hobby is a second job. But I think I'm going to end that soon.

Yeah, not having to pay overtime, not having to provide benefits/health care etc. etc. Not a fair comparison.

also, i think what you are saying there is a different issue to what i was talking earlier

The higher paying jobs may well involve more actual "work" - this is to earn the "money" remember "work" was defined as obligations.

Once you have earned enough, though, you can do such things as
1/ quit your job
2/ take a sabbatical

in order to pursue your "hobby", without having to spend time "working" again, until such times as to when you run out of "money".

the tricky part is that once you quit your job there's a fear that you may not be able to resume the same job again when you do run out of "money"

I know several people who have or would express the idea to work really hard for a finite time, earn a lot of money, and then *stop* and *enjoy* it, and I have very strong suspicions that none of them ever will. My best friend in the world said this, and went on a very steep earnings trajectory, even 8 years ago he was earning nearly twice what I earn now, and he's been promoted several times since, but he has no savings, so wont be able to stop at 40 (in seven years) as stated, because he's spent it all (on holidays, and a silly 100% mortgage, and so on and so forth, and now a duaghter), and also, most importantly, he's now so used to working incredibly fracking hard and long hours that I simply doubt he could stop and enjoy it.

In my industry (legal) the rich people def. work long hours, 80 a week.

holidays though - that's enjoyment?

P sure for me the appeal of being an independently wealthy shit creative is not just 'I could sit at home and be a shit artist' but 'I could sit at home and be a shit artist and get my teeth fixed.'

'xactly

yeah i don't think it's true across the board (there are definitely some well paid people who stroll into the office whatever 10-20 hours a week they feel like) but there are definitely a lot of people working insane hours for the big money. i was reminded of this recently when i worked a very long day at the highest-paying of the multiple jobs my poor ass works, and everyone else there was making way more than me and stayed for even longer than the 10 hours i was there.

That depends if you want to work 12 hour days and not switch off at weekends (or on holidays) because you might need to make a phonecall or answer an email at any given moment. (xposts to ken)

FIND A JOB YOU LOVE AND YOULL NEVER WORK A DAY IN ARGH

"Are there any additional signs that this person is going to be an insufferable hippie?"

haaaaaa

it's not just the children of the super-rich that get enough leisure time/money to enjoy life, tbf. Most people i know have at least some measure of that balance, and i'm at best lower-mid (and my earnings are nowhere near lower-mid, nor indeed national industrial)

It's not "enough leisure time/money to enjoy life" - it's "the ability to do their fun hobby full-time regardless of actual ability at it."

but i'm public sector, so the hours, holiday allowance and relative lack of stress/hassle are worth more to me than eg doubling my earnings.

can't c/p sorry, but yr post at 2:04pm?

The post from 2:04 is a follow-on/addendum to the post at 2:02 in which I explicitly state that's what I'm talking about.

There are some studies that upper middle class professionals (law associates, lower level i-bankers, etc.) actually do work more hours than middle class people in the US. Which is neither to feel sorry for upper middle class professionals nor to make any statement about *entitlement* to earnings. But it's interesting how the professional class is often beyond striking distance from the life of the truly wealthy, but the illusion of wealth being barely out of grasp often keeps people on the treadmill. That and the "fear of falling" as Barbara Ehrenreich called it a long time ago.

barbara ehrenreich wanted people to work longer hours though..

In 1970 Ehrenreich gave birth to Rosa — who was named after Rosa Parks and Rosa Luxemburg, the German revolutionary, as well as a great-grandmother — at a public clinic in New York. "I was the only white patient at the clinic," Ehrenreich told the Toronto Globe and Mail in 1987. "They induced my labor because it was late in the evening and the doctor wanted to go home. I was enraged. The experience made me a feminist."

Just read this Atlantic article and was kinda shocked by it. I'm familiar with Neal Gabler, and always figured he was one of those six-figure-advance writers who lived in elitist comfort. But some of the things he describes, like making minimum monthly credit card payments for years on end, sound to me like the behavior of an insane person, almost willfully self-destructive. The bigger issue, of course, is the whole thing of people not being able to rustle up $400 in an emergency, an idea that is frankly horrifying to me. I don't have a ton of money, but I could pay $400 or even $4000 for something without draining my bank account, and I feel like I'm someone who's made a lot of life choices that would be pretty financially damaging (not graduating college, marrying at 21, becoming a writer).

i've just spent the last two months immersed in other people's finances. Some people are just not very good at managing their money, in terms of basic things, like reducing debt, avoiding late fees and penalties, living within their means. There are a bunch of clickbait pieces about "bad financial habits poor people learn." But I've seen affluent people who come from at least a middle class background have bad financial habits as well.

there is no money in heaven

money is a goof

http://i.imgur.com/WghY9Dz.jpg?1

I have horrible money management skills but it's been buffered by the fact I'm in a career that pays reasonably well, have no kids, and my splurging tends to be on a lot of lower-priced items instead of expensive ones. And have family that paid for the majority of my college education (although I graduated before college went from $$ to $$$$$)

I was surprised by a friend, who afaik lives pretty well within her means and has saved for moving a few times and had annoying expenses in those situations (double rent for a couple months due to a breakup/no sublet situation) admitted, despite working for mid-sized workplaces with full benefits, has not set up a 401k or other retirement plan

I was joking about the ridiculous credit limit on a card I have and was joking with friends I could have a really nice two-week vacation and max it out

they weren't sure they could spend over $10k in two weeks, but buddy, I could find a way

but i'm public sector, so the hours, holiday allowance and relative lack of stress/hassle are worth more to me than eg doubling my earnings.

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Thursday, 19 April 2012 14:57 (4 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

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