"Manhunt" withdrawn from Dixons stores

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Story here.(Parents of murdered boy rage about violent computer game due to the murderer (17yo) being obsessed with the game, Dixons remove sales of games immediately)

Do they not realise that the most efficient form of advertising is publicity?
This age old ~~blame~~ debate has arisen once again, but IlXors your thoughts please ?

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 29 July 2004 12:17 (twenty-one years ago)

yes thanks ilx for removing my entire question, anyway link here for news story -
BBC Website

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 29 July 2004 12:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I think there must have been some html error that removed yr post - lack of a closing /a tag or something. If you select "view page source" in yr browser, you can cut and paste your orig. question into the answer box.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 29 July 2004 12:22 (twenty-one years ago)

there's a line break tag inside the anchor tag.

― MarkH (MarkH), Thursday, 29 July 2004 12:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Under the nüILX era, please remeber to insert a " after the URL and before the > mmmkay?

I don't know why, its just the way it is.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 29 July 2004 12:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Noodles, yes i remembered that, looks like I missed it off due to being so darn annoyed at this news story. Which brings us back to the thread, are Dixons doing the right thing? Why aren't they removing *all* of the 18-rated material from their shelves?

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 29 July 2004 12:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Because everyone wants to see Showgirls-inspired crime?

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 29 July 2004 12:33 (twenty-one years ago)

yeh thanks mods for fixing that.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 29 July 2004 12:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I really don't agree with this. You surely have to be a certain kind of unstable person in the first place to do this, or be affected by a computer game. I have played the game & although it's extremely graphic, it has not made me think about killing anyone. So my point is, if it affects you, there is something wrong initially!

― PinXor (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 29 July 2004 12:51 (twenty-one years ago)

the game is actually so violent, i think it would turn you away from actually wanting to kill someone.

and where was brian cox during all this?

― cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 29 July 2004 12:55 (twenty-one years ago)

one of these days i really need to post a good precis of all the research into media violence. i do know that none of it confirms this kind of x = y causality. on the other hand, it's hard to flatly deny that violent media content (esp participatory stuff like games) has some effect, and that effect might be bad. (statisticians are now starting to track not only # of murders witnessed by the average kid before x age, but the number of murders committed, which i think is hilarious in a cronenbergian way) anyway, beyond that assumption the effects have been immesurable.

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 29 July 2004 12:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I often fantasise about being a sniper these days. I never did before playing GTA3. But I don't think I'm actually going to kill anyone. I'm prepared to be withdrawn from Dixons if other people disagree.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 29 July 2004 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

but out here in the political world, the anecdote rules supreme, so if you've got an otaku butchering his friend, it's evidence enuf.

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:01 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost, i think

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:01 (twenty-one years ago)

and apparently, the concept of "statistical outlier" is too difficult for these people to grasp.

― Kingfish von Bandersnatch (Kingfish), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:10 (twenty-one years ago)

"well is MY MURDERD CHILD too difficult to grasp" etc etc

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:15 (twenty-one years ago)

looks like i forgot an ' in that post

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:16 (twenty-one years ago)

is the prevalence of knee-jerk liberalism in response to the withdrawal of violent computer games worse than the violent computer games themselves erm?

― ENRQ (Enrique), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Shouldn't the parents of the murderer be accepting some of the blame here though? The game is rated 18, he was below this age. This seems to have been overlooked by all parties.

Nit-picking? Well they started it.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:18 (twenty-one years ago)

There is an 18 on the box for a reason, ffs. The kid was under 18, so what was he doing with it? The game isn't to blame, only the people who let him buy/own it. And probably his violent parents for spawning young with a predisposition for violence, just waiting to be triggered off by a game.

(xpost)

― Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I was going to post exactly what Madchen & Ste said, but then he may have gotten hold of this game from somewhere else. It may have been an 18 year old friend's game & he borrowed it. Maybe they shouldn't exist in the first place, but it a statistical thing? The amount of ppl that play it & do not go out & kill someone vs the amount of ppl that do end up killing someone.

― PinXor (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, the amount of joy that millions have gained from playing Manhunt must be balanced against the misery of one or two resultant deaths.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:32 (twenty-one years ago)

in that perspective, we can easily afford a few more deaths before action needs to be taken.

― ENRQ (Enrique), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:33 (twenty-one years ago)

er, "resultant"?

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:34 (twenty-one years ago)

amount of joy that millions have gained from playing Manhunt

Yuk no, it's a tripe game to be fair and bores the hell out of me.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:36 (twenty-one years ago)

If you have got a point to make then make it, do not just take the piss. My point was that should it be a statistical thing as seems to be the case in most things. How do they decide on something like this? Oh & btw before anybody else decides to have a go, I was asking not expressing an opinion ffs!
x-post

― PinXor (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:37 (twenty-one years ago)

pinX0r -- not having a go but there is no link between playing video games and being a psycho.

― ENRQ (Enrique), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:39 (twenty-one years ago)

My point was taking the piss. Sorry.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Enrique - did I say there was a link? I don't think there is at all but the thread is about dixons withdrawing the game. I said there must have been issues with this lad before any computer game could possibly influence him.

― PinXor (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think we understood what your question was.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:43 (twenty-one years ago)

How is it detemined by the powers that be whether or not this game needs to be withdrawn to stop this happening again? [remembering that I don't agree with there being a link.]

― PinXor (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:44 (twenty-one years ago)

also, my additional hidden point, why haven't other violent games been removed from sales? (but no more violent than the GTA games and 90% of other games)

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree. GTA is nowhere near as realistic as manhunt though.

― PinXor (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:48 (twenty-one years ago)

PinXor outs herself as serial killer.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah you got me! Actually the kind of playstation games i own (apart from twee rayman kind of games) are fighting ones & resident evil. Maybe I am a serial killer. I'm coming for you Alba! (even though I have no idea who you are cos you've changed your name!)

― PinXor (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Manhunt could have been brilliant, it looked and sounded like the ultimate John Carpenter game but just fell over with the repetitive gameplay style(imho).

I agree GTA games look less real than Manhunt although there's tons more in them for a parent to be concerned about. My sister wouldn't let her 2 teenage sons play them, ever, and rightly so.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)

They're playing it at their mate's house.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:03 (twenty-one years ago)

anybody wanna buy my playstation 2? you can try this game out for your own!

― Kingfish von Bandersnatch (Kingfish), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:04 (twenty-one years ago)

oh it's THAT GAME? where you can suffocate dudes with plastic bags and stuff?

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:17 (twenty-one years ago)

yes.

― cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:17 (twenty-one years ago)

er, is it out for pc?

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:33 (twenty-one years ago)

(but not from Dixons)

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes

― Kingfish von Bandersnatch (Kingfish), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:36 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm gonna kill some people.

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)

wearing a suit of pig?

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)

what?

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

you'll see!

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:50 (twenty-one years ago)

In the Daily Mail the boy's mom was claiming that the makers of the game targeted it at young and impressionable children deliberately (which from what I saw of the advertising for Manhunt wasn't true), but I guess she's under a lot of stress and that. There was another quote from like his uncle or something comparing it to child porn, and saying that looking at child porn makes any normal person more likely to be a paedophile, and clearly looking at violence makes people more likely to be violent. Or something.

Predictably, this Leblanc lad basically seems like a total violent criminal type, even prior to having the internal workings of his brain malevolently reconfigured towards maiming by Manhunt.

― Fergal (Ferg), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Penn Jillette once wrote about efforts to stop any sort of media violence, calling the efforts a sort of "voodoo," since you try to control the thing itself by controlling representations of it

― Kingfish von Bandersnatch (Kingfish), Thursday, 29 July 2004 15:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 18 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

nice reasoned arguments on this here. sample comment: "Ban them. What good do they do?" (The actual front of the mail this morning read 'Ban these sick video games' or something similar)

and i kinda agree. i'm a lot happier killing aliens or zombies (or zombie aliens) than humans.

― koogs (koogs), Friday, 30 July 2004 07:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sorry but I still don't agree. No link has ever been proved. A computer game cannot make you violent.

― PinXor (Pinkpanther), Friday, 30 July 2004 07:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Just over ten years ago there was a film banned called Child's Play 3. This was mostly because of something the Sun said about it being the reason for the Bulger murders. How fucking insulting is that!?

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 30 July 2004 07:47 (twenty-one years ago)

A computer game cannot make you violent.

how about "a computer game can contribute in making you think violence is cheap"?

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Friday, 30 July 2004 07:53 (twenty-one years ago)

IF someone is influenced by a computer game, then surely there are already issues there. hence, the computer game is not to blame.

― PinXor (Pinkpanther), Friday, 30 July 2004 07:55 (twenty-one years ago)

don't you think by helping do diffuse lot of violent information, it helps to lower it's value, making people blasé about it?
I'm not 100% anti-violence myself, would use it as ultimate last resort to guarantee my safety but I would weep to do it. I think I just want to rant about the loss of man-hours, and how it's anti-revolutionary, don't mind me :-)

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I think I might go and buy this at lunchtime, beware Trig brother contestants, I may be influenced.

Seriously though - cobblers, you've got to be some sort of menko to start stabbing people in the first place, video game or not.

― Porkpie (porkpie), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:08 (twenty-one years ago)

End of the day the press starts these big "Ban this sick game/evil film" to cause controversy and sell papers. If you truly believe that a kid went out and killed someone just because he played a computer game, then you're talking arse.
Banning the game isn't going to do anything for anyone except for letting the tabloids boast about how they themselves managed to rid the world off yet one more atrocity, regardless of the pro-war bollocks they espout on every front page of the week.

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:09 (twenty-one years ago)

(oops, the 'nice reasoned' up there was meant sarcastically. it is the kneejerk daily mail after all. not that the gamers' knees didn't jerk back just as much, as usual. and such bad spelling...)

but kids do latch on to these things. go and stand outside any playground in the country and you'll see countless spider-men beating up doctor octopii (not just kids either - star trek conventions for instance). and these games are interactive, and that's an important distinction - it's me pushing the button to take the top of that bloke's head off, i'm not just sat there watching bruce willis do it, it's me. and the bloke i'm killing is looking and acting more and more realistic with every year what with advances in technology.

and it worries me. who hasn't gone to sleep and dreamed of falling tetris bricks? these things DO get into your subconscious (imho).

xposts, lots of them.

― koogs (koogs), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:12 (twenty-one years ago)

And isn't it a bit sick that such campaigns cloud over any other reasons for it by pointing the finger at violent video games? If they have to find a reason other than "oh the kid was a bit upset cos his girlfriend dumped him/his goldfish died/he lost at manhunt" surely they should document his history of violence in school and at home?

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:13 (twenty-one years ago)

But you just have to watch the news to see violence. When you hear about yet another murder on the news you certainly don't think 'omg that's so terrible' because it happens all of the time. Reading about violent crimes in the newspaper does not make me want to go out & copycat. Porkpie otm.

― PinXor (Pinkpanther), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:14 (twenty-one years ago)

that said, i don't think a ban is in order, that'd be like banning booze because drunk drivers exist or smoking because 110,000 people a year die from lung cancer.

er, actually... 8)

― koogs (koogs), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:18 (twenty-one years ago)

koogs, sure but when I was playing He-Man in the playground - and I loved He-Man - I knew very well that it was just play. I was 6 years old. If an 18 year old can't separate fact from fiction then he is mentally ill. That or he has had the kind of upbringing that made him feel that hurting others is right.

If someone's going to do an inhumane act of harm then they're going to do it. The video game could maybe have influenced the way he did it, but then so could an episode of Eastenders - he'd still have done something equally grievious.

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:19 (twenty-one years ago)

> But you just have to watch the news to see violence.

but as i said above, video games are interactive, and that is an important difference.

― koogs (koogs), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:19 (twenty-one years ago)

i have been x posting a lot.

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Walking round darkened rooms, munching pills, repetitive music etc..

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:22 (twenty-one years ago)

The basic point of bowling for columbine was that people were attacking the entertainment industry but that was the wrong target; people making possible a certain form of capitalism that is generating structural violence was thre real target.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Koogs-yeah ok, there is a difference, but still DL is right.

― PinXor (Pinkpanther), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:23 (twenty-one years ago)

the basic point of Bowling for Columbine was a smug man getting a lot of publicity for making a film about something he had nothing to do with.

Sebastien, really, it's not all about capitalism.

― Porkpie (porkpie), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:27 (twenty-one years ago)

> If an 18 year old can't separate fact from fiction then he is mentally ill

yes, but these people DO exist and i believe VGs can tip such people over the edge. but it's perfectly safe (as is The Ale) in 99+% of cases. which is why i *don't* think they should ban them.

> If someone's going to do an inhumane act of harm then they're going to do it.

i do believe killing something hundreds of times in your head can make the leap killing something once in reality easier. the recent bbc2(?) program about how they went from the 2% of effective soldiers in WW1 to 90% in armed forces today basically said that they just remove the barrier to killing by introducing the soldiers to more and more realistic targets and repeating this again and again until it's a conditioned response. which to me is a very similar thing.

― koogs (koogs), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:29 (twenty-one years ago)

No I'm sorry that isn't similar at all. hitting some buttons on a keypad which makes something happen on a tv screen is not the same as having a real gun in your hand & shooting a human like target.

― PinXor (Pinkpanther), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:30 (twenty-one years ago)

not to me or you, no. which is why i don't think they should be banned.

― koogs (koogs), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:33 (twenty-one years ago)

But you just said "i do believe killing something hundreds of times in your head can make the leap killing something once in reality easier." I have 'killed' many a zombie/fighter/dog/human in a computer game, but it does not make it any easier for me to do it real life.

― PinXor (Pinkpanther), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Whether you're right or wrong Koogs, and I'm not sure either way - it's not the game that is the issue. It's such a tiny factor that for the papers to bring it up and turn it into this incredible story about how a mild-mannered kid got turned into a knife-wielding maniac because he played Manhunt is just clouding the issue and an insult to anyone who may be involved with the case.

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Exactly, far more eloquently put. Thanks DL.

― PinXor (Pinkpanther), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I started playing Pro Evolution Soccer just six months ago, and now I'm in the first team at Valencia.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Damnit, we better ban it then!

― PinXor (Pinkpanther), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I watched Bambi and then a hunter shot my Mum and I cried.

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I believe there is a serious gap between training soldiers who have to physically run around brandishing a gun who themselves understand and are aware of why they are performing this role and sitting in your house holding a control pad playing a piece of entertainment.

Anybody who currently cannot distinguish the two is indeed heading for big trub.

But interesting point koogs re the conditioning, makes me wonder that when and if games become ultra-realistic (user immersed in the world, perhaps more feedback involved), that will this indeed become a problem. Makes yer think.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:59 (twenty-one years ago)

(a multi billion trillion xposts goddammit)

― Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 30 July 2004 08:59 (twenty-one years ago)

DL completely otm

― koogs (koogs), Friday, 30 July 2004 09:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Does anybody actually buy games from Dixons anyway?

― Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 30 July 2004 09:02 (twenty-one years ago)

They did during the closing down sale when they were 50%.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 30 July 2004 09:05 (twenty-one years ago)

50% off, I mean.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 30 July 2004 09:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I work for a chain of videogame shops and out sales of Manhunt went up 500% yesterday.

What I find weird and wrong about this situation is that it's the parents of the victim who are kicking up the fuss. If I'd been beaten to death by a murderous nut, I'd be really angry to then find that my parents were making excuses for the fucker. "It's not his fault! it's that nasty game he was playing that made him do it!" I mean, jesus.

― JimD (JimD), Friday, 30 July 2004 09:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I've always fancied the smaller balls, the ones where you don't have to wear an expensive evening gown, and where you know everyone so you don't have to resort to small talk.

-- Tuomas (tuomas.alh...), July 30th, 2004.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 30 July 2004 10:47 (twenty-one years ago)

oh shit! i meant to post that on the nu-excelsior thread.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 30 July 2004 10:48 (twenty-one years ago)

i have 'killed' many a zombie/fighter/dog/human in a computer game, but it does not make it any easier for me to do it real life.

i dunno, i think my knowledge of how to take out zombies has been improved due to video games-- just like in Thief, you only need to fire a water arrow dipped in Holy Water at the head of a zombie and BLAMMO zombie limbs everywhere.

also, thanks to Aliens comics, i know now to cap zombies in the knees to immobilize them, then, as they crawl towards you to feast on your cranial innards, blast them in the skull twice with a Desert Eagle to finish the job.

still, folks pointing to vid games as tipping points or motivating factors to someone finally snapping and going psycho have not much of an arguement -- if you're not in a rational frame of mind, ANYTHING can tell you to kill, like, oh, your dog, or TV static...

― Kingfish von Bandersnatch (Kingfish), Friday, 30 July 2004 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Manhunt sold out at pl4y.c0m

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 30 July 2004 14:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd never heard of this (don't play games) but now I know about it. If I was 14 I'd have bought it by now.

Don't they see that more copies will now sell of this?

Silly people.

― C-Man (C-Man), Friday, 30 July 2004 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I think they do C-Man.

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 30 July 2004 14:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Ok, here's a tricky one. When I say I work for a chain of games shops...well, I control pricing of second hand games. It's not rocket science. If we're too cheap, we sell more than we buy and run out, if we're too expensive, we buy more than we sell and get flooded. So...today we sold half our stock of manhunt - about 3 times as many as we sold yesterday, about 15 times as many as we sold on tuesday. If I didn't do anything, we'd have sold out by tomorrow lunch time. So I've had to put the price up. A lot.

Does this make me evil?

― JimD (JimD), Friday, 30 July 2004 16:06 (twenty-one years ago)

hell no. suplpy & fookin' demand, wot wot.

― Kingfish von Bandersnatch (Kingfish), Friday, 30 July 2004 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Come close, step inside
Radiance from a dying world
Contagious and careless
You're spreading your disease among us
Warm sweat, no regret
All you see is the TV set
While people around you
Are dying like flies

Non-stop violence, they feed us cascades
Of non-believers dying in the sand
Feeding us with violence, we face the fall of man
Believe me, and catch me if you can

Catch me if you can!

Come close, step inside
Radiance from a dying world
Contagious and careless
You're spreading your disease among us
White noise in your ears
Your eyes look like monitors
But what you need is silence
And a positive vibe

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Friday, 30 July 2004 22:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Just been sent this from a friend...

Victim not killer owned 'murder manual' game

It seems the game in question was owned by the victim and not the killer. Police yet again stating there is no link to the game. I wonder if Dixons, the Daily Mail et al will take back all the crap they've been spouting since this link was first made.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 5 August 2004 16:25 (twenty-one years ago)

ten months pass...

was this actually any good?

― cozen (Cozen), Monday, 6 June 2005 21:54 (twenty years ago)

Eh, not especially. Imagine a stealthy game where the only goal is to get from point A to point B while killing people with shattered glass, crowbars, baseball bats, etc. Oh yeah, and the "bad guys" are all hicks or neo-nazis and shit.

― mike h. (mike h.), Monday, 6 June 2005 22:36 (twenty years ago)

i want to form a company that does nothing but announce plans for more incendiary games, just to see how much media backlash you could build.

― kingfish maximum overdrunk (Kingfish), Monday, 6 June 2005 23:25 (twenty years ago)

i disliked it and found the gameplay samey over the levels. my house mate loved it and played it to completion. i enjoyed watching him play it though, there were some cute John-Carpenter atmospheric moments.

I will take a guess that the Warriors game will be of similar style, if done by the same team.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 08:20 (twenty years ago)

I got this game for 15 euro in Ireland because presumably Dixons etc had piles of them to spare.

It is good at first, a guy keeps talking to you and saying "KILL THAT DUMB FUCK, VERY GOOD MY SON" etc and it's kind of scary, but after a while you begin to see him as a father figure and the game gets more relaxed, you become focussed and calm but no less intense.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 08:54 (twenty years ago)

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