90 Years Ago Today

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"The lamps are going out all over Europe; we shall not see them lit again in our lifetime," said Edward Grey that evening. I have always thought this war the most depressing in history, even more than WWII. Does this even resonate with us anymore?

Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 21:12 (twenty-one years ago)

i was visiting montreal two years ago on armistice/veteran's day and the globe and mail did a piece on the surviving canadian wwi veterans. there were eleven of them at the time.

i completely agree with you. a lot more people were killed in wwii, but there's something haunting about the trenches and the gas and the horrible senselessness of going over the top.

mookieproof (mookieproof), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 21:22 (twenty-one years ago)

And for what?

Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 21:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Interesting story via the BBC about two surviving veterans here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3534068.stm

Despite the danger he faced, he thinks he had an easy time of it compared to men who served in the infantry.

"On the western front, men in the trenches stood in water up to their knees. They had to eat and sleep in that water. How did they manage?" he said.

He said those men regularly had to march for miles on end only to stop and dig trenches before marching on again.

"They were like hermit crabs," he said. "But I've always said the men in the trenches were what won the war for us."

One of those men, John Oborne of the Light Infantry, also attended the Cenotaph ceremony, despite preferring to leave his memories of the war in the past.

"You wouldn't like to know what I did," he said. "What do you go to war for? To kill people."

"I thought I'd be doing some good, even though I was just a tiny cog in a great big wheel. I never gave it a thought that I'd be killing people.

Mr Allingham used to share that reticence, but shares his experiences now to honour those who died in the war, and to help the modern generation understand the horrors they witnessed.

"War's stupid," he said. "Nobody wins. You might as well talk first, you have to talk last anyway."

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 21:25 (twenty-one years ago)

He said before the ceremony: "War is not a wonderful thing to be remembered, but those who died must never be forgotten. I'll be there for the lads." Fred Lloyd, 106, from Uckfield, East Sussex.

This stuff always has me in tears.

Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 21:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,

Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,

Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,

And towards our distant rest began to trudge.

Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,

But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame, all blind,

Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots

Of gas-shells drop softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys! – An ecstasy of fumbling,

Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,

But someone still was yelling out and stumbling

And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime-

Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,

As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dream before my helpless sight

He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace

Behind the wagon that we flung him in,

And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,

His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin,

If you could hear, at ever jolt, the blood

Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs-

Bitter as the cud

Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues-

My friend, you would not tell with such high zest

To children ardent for some desperate glory,

The old lie: Dulce et decorum est

Pro patria mori.

Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 21:35 (twenty-one years ago)

good lord, a surviving veteran of wwi would have to be at least 100 years old by now.

the statistics of that war are astonishing--the number of young men killed, the resulting decrease in birth rates following the war....

amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 21:36 (twenty-one years ago)

one of the more powerful (if somewhat oblique) evocations of the disaster of this war is shirley & dolly collins' anthems in eden.

amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 21:37 (twenty-one years ago)

What is it amateur!st?

Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 21:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Yup, the folks in the story are all centenarians. The main figure in the story lost both his brothers in the war -- imagine living for nearly a century more after that point with that kind of loss. It must be something nearly incomprehensible.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 21:40 (twenty-one years ago)

"anthems in eden" was a song cycle commissioned by the bbc in the late 60s, comprising a number of old english ballads. many of them have as a theme the horror of war, from the point of view of the women left behind. a particularly powerful example is "our captain cried":


Our captain cried, All hands and away tomorrow
Leaving these girls behind in grief and sorrow.
What makes you go abroad, fighting for strangers
When you could stay at home, free from all dangers?

You courted me a while just to deceive me
Now my heart you have gained, and you mean to leave me
There's no trusting men, not my own brother
So girls if you can love, love one another

The concept (fairly loose) of the song cycle is a vision of an edenic "old england" which WWI destroyed forever. The cycle was recorded and comprises the first side of an album also called Anthems in Eden.

amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I was at the proms for Britten's War Requiem on sunday.
The treatment of Owen's "Strange Meeting" in that is absolutely heartbreaking. But Owen always makes you feel like you're there
somehow.

de, Wednesday, 4 August 2004 21:50 (twenty-one years ago)

the musicians are from david munrow's london early music consort and the result--stunning arrangements of traditional material for renaissance instrumentation--might be termed "avant-garde" but is absent the sort of posturing that term often implies.

xpost

ah yes the war requiem... sigh.

amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 21:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Considerable foresight that, calling it WWI and stuff.

Which Describes How You're Feeling All the Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 21:52 (twenty-one years ago)

er, don't the english call it the "great war"?

amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 21:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Amazing how much poetry, fiction, art, music, etc... followed that insanity.

Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 21:54 (twenty-one years ago)

thank you for starting this thread michael.

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 21:56 (twenty-one years ago)

fyi: Shirley Collins. Classic. Dud is not an option here, I'm afraid.

amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 21:56 (twenty-one years ago)

what are everyone's thoughts on pat barker's regeneration trilogy?

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 21:57 (twenty-one years ago)

slocki

I have a head for dates and this day (and admittedly, some stuff at work) just had me down today.

Don't know Barker, sorry.

Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 22:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Apparently Germany has only one first world war veteran left. It must pretty much suck to be that guy and know that fact.

James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 22:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, for 80 years or whatever he's just another war veteran, then one day he's The Only One Left, and suddenly that's all people know him as. It's not something you'd want to relive with that intensity.

Which Describes How You're Feeling All the Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 22:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Unless they brought strudel.

Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 22:27 (twenty-one years ago)

one of the better things i've ever read is an english collection of diary entries and reminiscences called 'the war the infantry knew'. what stands out from it is the overwhelming sense that nobody had any idea what the fuck was going on. particularly during the scramble of the first few months. march here, dig a trench here, charge here, yes sir.

mookieproof (mookieproof), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 22:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I have a head for dates and this day (and admittedly, some stuff at work) just had me down today.

in case i didn't express myself well enough, i meant my thanks in earnest, i was glad to be reminded of this anniversary and reading the edward grey quote gave me the chills. and made me think and all that.

s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 5 August 2004 15:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I did understand you slocki, and you're welcome. I'm glad someone appreciated it 'cause I was undecided as to whether I'd even start the thread. I was just pointing out how it came up.

Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 5 August 2004 17:29 (twenty-one years ago)

ok good, i'm glad! you should take a look at regeneration and the other two books in barker's trilogy (which aren't nearly as good) if you're interested in the period, there's some good stuff there

s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 5 August 2004 17:39 (twenty-one years ago)

MCMXIV

Those long uneven lines
Standing as patiently
As if they were stretched outside
The Oval or Villa Park,
The crowns of hats, the sun
On moustached archaic faces
Grinning as if it were all
An August Bank Holiday lark;
And the shut shops, the bleached
Established names on the sunblinds,
The farthings and sovereigns,
And dark-clothed children at play
Called after kings and queens,
The tin advertisements
For cocoa and twist, and the pubs
Wide open all day;
And the countryside not caring
The place-names all hazed over
With flowering grasses, and fields
Shadowing Domesday lines
Under wheats' restless silence;
The differently-dressed servants
With tiny rooms in huge houses,
The dust behind limousines;
Never such innocence,
Never before or since,
As changed itself to past
Without a word--the men
Leaving the gardens tidy,
The thousands of marriages
Lasting a little while longer:
Never such innocence again.

-- Philip Larkin

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 18 August 2004 04:35 (twenty-one years ago)


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