Rimbaud

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I'm wondering if Rimbaud falls into the category of "fascinating life, the work less so". I was enthralled by Graham Robb's biography of the man, but am having problems with the actual poems. Am presently struggling with Illuminations - translated by Louise Varèse with the original French on facing page - but I'm not getting much out of it. Anyone care to talk me through it? Or any thoughts on Rimbaud in general?

Bela Lugosi's Dad, Thursday, 12 August 2004 10:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I think that to appreciate Rimbaud, you really have to read him for the first time when you are about 16. It really did mean something to me then. And on the rare occasions that I read him now, it is beautiful because it takes me back to the raw, angry pain of youth.

I can't imagine reading him for the first time as an adult, it would probably seem petty and silly.

Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Thursday, 12 August 2004 11:02 (twenty-one years ago)

think comets of fire and ice, extraordinary clashes, subjectivity at extremes...

the graham robb biography is good, isn't it? i like the bit in Africa where he nearly founds an off-shoot school of Islamic theology, then thinks 'hang on, this will inevitably get me killed' and goes back to trading.

dave amos, Thursday, 12 August 2004 11:06 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe you should read 'the drunken boat' first, it's a good introduction to the work. it has the hair raising extremes of the illuminations, but gathered into some sort of narrative archetype, i.e. a journey.

dave amos, Thursday, 12 August 2004 11:10 (twenty-one years ago)

When I used to work between Kings Cross and Mornington Crescent, I used to walk passed the house where Rimbaud and Verlaine used to live. It had a blue plaque, but was very run down and sad looking.

Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 12 August 2004 11:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it was always run down. Verlaine described London as 'a wasteland of fire and mud'. Both of them preferred London to Paris.

dave amos, Thursday, 12 August 2004 11:38 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.otrarealidad.net/multimedia/images/dearticulos/rambo.jpg

Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 12 August 2004 11:46 (twenty-one years ago)

the old ones are the best ones, eh?

dave amos, Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Someone was inevitably going to do it, so why not me?

Sigh. I studied Baudelaire for a bit, does that count?

Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:06 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.furious.com/perfect/graphics/verlaine.jpg

ENRG, Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Verlaine fled London after a violent argument with Rimbaud. Nostalgic for the respectable days of his marriage, he was already tired of being a penniless outcast. Besides, Rimbaud has broken two of the strings on his mint green jazzmaster.

dave amos, Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:16 (twenty-one years ago)

That made me laugh like a drain.

Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I recognize the filthy education of my youth!

I started reading a book about Rimbaud in North Africa, but all I remember are footnotes quoting his letters, full of complaints about the coffee there. Brilliant. Had he been born later, he could have been an ILX regular.

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Which one of us woud have entered an ill-advised homosexual affair with him only to eventually try to shoot him?

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Can someone nice give a 50 word prose-poem on what these guys are all about and what constitutes their continued appeal? I know next to nothing of them.

ENRG, Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I can see Paul Verlaine as an ILX regular more than Rimbaud. Rimbaud would be out doing something!

dave amos, Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:26 (twenty-one years ago)

the drunken boat in english.

dave amos, Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:28 (twenty-one years ago)

'lightnings' strikes me as a mistranslation ('scuse the pun)

Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Beckett also did a translation of "Le Bateau Ivre". Doesn't appear to be on the Net though. You miss out a lot reading Rimbaud in English. Even if your French is ropey, it's best to read the translation against the original French text. I think the best place to start is his "Lettres du voyant" where he outlines his poetic project (and where the famous "je est un autre" pronouncement comes from), followed by "une Saison en Enfer" which is not difficult to read and is loosely autobiographical. Then his earlier poems, and lastly "Illuminations", which is perhaps the most difficult since he's reached a stage of almost pure subjectivity. Probably most of this stuff is on the Net somewhere, here's a translation of one of his "Lettres du Voyant".

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8161/rimlettre.html

Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Je sais les cieux crevant en éclairs, et les trombes
Et les ressacs et les courants : Je sais le soir,
L'aube exaltée ainsi qu'un peuple de colombes,
Et j'ai vu quelque fois ce que l'homme a cru voir !

I have come to know the skies splitting with lightnings, and the waterspouts
And the breakers and currents ; I know the evening,
And Dawn rising up like a flock of doves,
And sometimes I have seen what men have imagined they saw !

i'm not that fluent in french, what do you think it should be?

dave amos, Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:50 (twenty-one years ago)

'sometimes i have seen what men IMAGINED they saw' has a king of ludacris quality

ENRG, Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I hadn't looked at the original french - I'd have guessed bolts of lightning, but I'd say éclairs is more like flashes of lightning. You can't have one lightning, two lightnings in English, can yer?

Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:54 (twenty-one years ago)

In fact, flashes on its own would work fine. Sorry, haven't got my hem hem big dic with me (ironically I took it home from work last week).

Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Hang on, crevant suggests it's being split apart (by a fork). It's a bit of a tough nut. This is why translating poetry is bastardy.

Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:57 (twenty-one years ago)

"Lightnings" is not so much as a mistranslation as simply bad English, lightning doesn't have a plural. That translation of "le bateau ivre" seems rather crap to me: "Je sais les cieux crevant en éclairs" has a beautiful simplicity to it, whereas "I have come to know the skies splitting with lightnings" is clumsy and wrong-sounding.

Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't like the translation of 'sais' as 'come to know', especially with the second 'sais' being just plain 'know' - it loses the impact. I shut up now.

Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

this thread makes me happy

dave amos, Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Also "crevant en éclairs" is highly allusive, éclair means lightning but it could also mean a shard of glass, so the image could also be of the sky shattering into shards.

Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Or cream cakes.

Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I used to have This pinned to my wall when I was a precious student.

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:03 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.bangalorenet.com/system1/danielle/images/eclair.jpg

ENRG, Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:04 (twenty-one years ago)

i think godard reads out bits of 'season in hell' in 'pierrot le fou'.

ENRG, Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I used to have the "she was very much half dressed" number on my wall as an student. I fondly imagined it made me seem a decadent sophisticate, but in actuality i assume i came across as occupying a fairly well worn place on the creepy/pretentious continuum.

dave amos, Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Je sais les cieux crevant en éclairs, et les trombes
Et les ressacs et les courants : Je sais le soir,
L'aube exaltée ainsi qu'un peuple de colombes,
Et j'ai vu quelque fois ce que l'homme a cru voir !

I know the skies punctured in lightning bolts, the spouts
And the breakers and currents: I know the evening.
The dawn arisen like a flight of doves
And I have sometimes seen what man has only imagined seeing

Mt favorite pretentious graffiti as a teenager was:

Un soir, j'ai assis la Beauté sur mes genoux. - Et je l'ai trouvée amère. - Et je l'ai injuriée.

I also highly recommend Henry Miller's 'Time of the Assassins'.


Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Another nod for "Season in Hell".

o. nate (onate), Thursday, 12 August 2004 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I can understand how people could be put off by Rimbaud's mythicized biography, the whole Season in hell deal, etc.
But I believe Rimbaud wrote some of the most beautiful, intense and longing poems of the french language in the simplicity of his "derniers vers", where you can find a little serie called Fêtes de la patience (Festivals of patience). There is a PDF online with litteral english translations of all his works:
www.tclt.org.uk/acrobat/Rimbaud_Poésies_Complètes.pdf
The poems I value especially are Bannières de mai, Chanson de la plus haute tour and from a little earlier, Mémoire.

I always felt like the translations don't work at all for Rimbaud, even though some translators have made incredible work. So I think you should read the english version to get an idea of the theme, and then let the flow of words, rhymes and colours from the French original make sense to you, even if you don't speak the language.

chomicat, Thursday, 12 August 2004 14:25 (twenty-one years ago)

The influence of young, seer Rimbaud when I was a teenager did more to help me become who I am now, intellectually and maybe even spiritually, than anyone else in my life. His life, spirit, the beautiful, beautiful poems -- all a big part of me. Hero & absolute CLASSIC.

Jay Vee (Manon_70), Thursday, 12 August 2004 18:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Rimbaud's influence is equally to blame for much awful "poet posturing", esp. in the world of Rock (Morrison, some Patti Smith).

Jay Vee (Manon_70), Thursday, 12 August 2004 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

three years pass...

The first new 'work' by Rimbaud to be found in sixty years, a fairly patriotic (before he deplored 'patrouillotisme') piece called 'Bismarck's Dream - Fantasy', written for the 'Progrès des Ardennes' newspaper and published November 25, 1870 when he was sixteen under the pseudonym, Jean Baudry.

Michael White, Thursday, 22 May 2008 15:19 (eighteen years ago)

I heard about this, but hadn't found the text itself yet. Merci bien!

Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 22 May 2008 16:39 (eighteen years ago)

Il n'a pas de quoi.

Michael White, Thursday, 22 May 2008 16:56 (eighteen years ago)

Why?

Michael White, Thursday, 22 May 2008 17:00 (eighteen years ago)

"This is a computer translation of the original webpage. It is provided for general information only and should not be regarded as complete nor accurate."

It is the evening. Under his tent, full with silence and dream, Bismarck, a finger on the chart of France, meditates; from its immense pipe escapes a blue net.

Bismarck meditates. Its small hooked index walks on, on vellum, of the Rhine in the Moselle, the Moselle in the Seine; nail it striped paper around Strasbourg imperceptibly; it passes in addition to.

In Saarbrucken, Wissembourg, Woerth, Sedan, it tressaille, the small hooked finger: it cherishes Nancy, scratches Bitche and Phalsbourg, Metz line, trace on the borders of small broken lines and stops…

Triumphing, Bismarck covered with his index Alsace and Lorraine! Oh! under its yellow cranium, what a be delirious of miserly! What a delicious clouds of smoke spreads its happy pipe!

**

Bismarck meditates, Tiens! a large black spot seems to stop the frétillant index. It is Paris.

Therefore, the small bad nail, to stripe, stripe paper, of Ci, from there, with rage, finally, to stop… The finger remains there, half folded, motionless.

Paris Paris! Then, the catch as well dreamed the open eye as, gently, somnolence seizes him: its face leans towards paper; automatically, the furnace of its pipe, escaped its lips, falls down on the unpleasant black spot…

Hi! povero! while giving up its poor head, its nose, the nose of Mr. Otto de Bismarck, plunged itself in the burning furnace. Hi! povero! povero goes! in the incandescent furnace of the pipe… hi! povero! Its index was on Paris! Finished, the glorious dream!

**

It was so fine, if spiritual, if happy, this nose of old first diplomat!

Hide, hide this nose!

Eh well! my expensive, when, to divide sauerkraut royal, you return to the palate (…) with crimes of… lady (…) in the history, you will eternally carry your nose carbonized between your stupid eyes!

Here! Rêvasser was not necessary!

James Morrison, Thursday, 22 May 2008 23:32 (eighteen years ago)

revasser that was the verb to translate oh stupid babel

youn, Friday, 23 May 2008 00:13 (eighteen years ago)

I will certainly now eternally carry my nose carbonized between my stupid eyes.

James Morrison, Friday, 23 May 2008 02:06 (eighteen years ago)


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