what makes people want to be outwardly stoic and bottle up their problems?

Is this what therapy is for? What is therapy anyway?

I don't know. Sometimes pride? Not wanting to bore people with typical clichéd problems.

Childhood experiences, basically. Some parents (and other adults who act in loco parentis such as teachers) somehow have a rather romanticized idea of what childhood is like. Goodness knows where this comes from, maybe they just have poor memories. Or maybe they make the mistake of equating problems with responsibilities (children lack responsibilities, ergo they have no problems). Anyway, the message goes out to children not to whinge or complain, to get on with their lives, put up and shut up, after all they are experiencing the best part of their lives, there can't be anything going wrong, can there? This indoctrinated way of thinking is carried on into adulthood and so when people do have problems they adopt stoicism in the company of the people who are most able to help them, i.e. those who know them best (families and friends) and so some, in desperation, turn to complete strangers, such as therapists.

For me its because I dont want people to think badly of the other people who might be involved in my problems, and also a fear of appearing weak or wrong myself, etc. etc.

(plus also the brain surgery you get on your first day at public school)

I don't bottle up my problems, I could moan for England. It's healthy,if there is a problem DEAL WITH IT, running away or just shrugging your shoulders and 'getting on with it' just leads to bigger problems.

from my experience OF eg group therapy or near equivs, a lot of people feel their problems are somewhat vague and undefined and unimportant: eg the person who has VOICES IN HEAD or who was orphaned age 5 and then abused for 15 years has a right to vent, whereas "can't seem to find the right person and feel melancholy now and then" can feel very self-indulgent

my parents' generation (war babies) imbibed stoicism on an industrial scale: it can be maddening

value of non-friends/non-relatives as ppl to talk to = you can say eg "Sometimes I wake up and I wish I'd never had children" and therapist is (with luck) trained not to have screaming rejection abdabs or start behaving towards you as you are hateful and odd

It gets tiresome telling people problems because as time goes on everybody gives less and less of a shit, and personally, most of the time I'm looking for constructive assistance, not constructive criticism.

I too can moan for England, but oddly only about relatively small things. I seem to be ludicrously stoic about big things I can't do anything about to the extent where my parents have questioned whether I have any feelings at all. If there's something I can do to sort it out then, yes, I try and fix it, but if there isn't I don't dwell on it.

I think Mark S may well be my therapist

Outward stoicism is needed cos in times of crisis the only solutions offered by friends and family are 1. alcohol and 2. being told to keep my chin / pecker up (last time I gushingly unburdened I was told this by no less than 5 people, by the end of it all I had the most upright chin / pecker in London). Or my mum's classic cheering up device, 'there's always someone worse off than you'. Yes I know but I don't care about them do I. Pah.

That's always struck me as a wierd way of cheering someone up: 'There's always someone worse off than you'. My mum was fond of that one, too.
So there are many poor bastards with more misery in the world than I can understand, and the only joy I can derive from that advice is a kind of perverse Schadenfreude. Great.

That said, actually reading about someone worse off than yrself can help a lot: Mikal Gilmore's Shot through the Heart got me thru a major depression — becuz, y'know, at least my brother hadn't murdered two mormons in order to re-ignite the death penalty, and enjoy it himself.

Because where's the use of talking? Telling someone else your problems isn't going to achieve anything; just bore them and embarrass you. So keep it all in. It's better for you. Work out the answer yourself.

because they might give you advice Alix?

I don't think anyone has ever given me advice in such situations that has really helped. It's nice to receive it as emotional support but in terms of actually "Hey yeah, I followed that bit of advice and it worked!" - no I don't think that's ever really happened.

Oh Alix, what a lonely vigil you make life out to be!

Accepting advice is an admission of failure. Bear in mind I am the person who'd rather get terribly lost than ask a passerby/ bus driver for directions. I need no one's help. If you can't work out the problem yourself you should either learn to live with it, or forget it entirely.

Actually maybe you're right and Alix is a mentalist.

I'm not a mentalist. I just don't like sharing.

what do you do when the bus driver asks YOU for directions?

Become Miss Sainsbury's 2001 and help as much as I can. Then feel empty and hope that they'll not be wanting to make conversation. It's best to avoid talking to people.

does Miss Sainsbury's 2001 get to wear a sash (with appropriate legend)?

Alix, far be it from me to call you a mentalist, but I could probably iron shirts on your upper lip. Not that I'd want to, of course.

Some of it is based on fear. I also identify completely with what RickyT and Lixi have said. I see nothing much wrong with it.

I don't mind trying to help other people when they moan, but see no point myself. I have been told that I don't talk about myself enough.

Mmm, you're probably right, except my upper lip isn't asbestos, which would cause some problems.

For me, mainly because telling people my problems has never led to any constructive advice or to me feeling any better. So why bother?

All I can assume from this thread is that some poor unfortunates don't have a bestest fwend upon whose shoulder they can cry.

i'd agree that it's out of pig-headed pride, not wanting to seem weak (v boy) and not wanting to be a fecking drag, becoming a "high maintenance" friend.

in fact i'm going to use this as an excuse to be a drag. i've had a couple of really 'up' weeks recently and feeling pretty confident. Then yesterday becaue i ended up talking on the phone to my ex. i do miss her and hadn't heard/seen her in a month. Now i'm back at the start feeling bloody miserable again and really resenting her.

There, i feel better for saying that publicly.

Oh, I think this really depends on your individual situation, your peer group and other relative matters.

People generally don't want to be a liability to others, hence need to be stoic or secretive about problems. There are people out there that will use the information about your problems to fuck you over, so that's another reason to keep schtum. This has happened to me once or twice (see Cutting Someone Out Of Your Life thread) but generally if I need to moan, I do it. I'm just choosy about who I share with. If you don'tt trust your advisor or you feel something emotionally unrequited for that person, best not to ask. If you have a friend that seems together, ask. If there really is nobody to turn to but you are popular, it's because *you* are the pragmatist font of advice in your peer group. Keep the nature of your complaint/problem less emotional and ask one of these friends to analyse it as a return to past favours.

But I do find myself giving advice, unbidden or not. Sometimes it works, sometimes the friend just wants to vent. I take it as a compliment that I am trusted or respected or considered pragmatic enough to be asked and try to do my best. I like to be 'there' for friends but I don't like feeling burdened and have got much better at not getting too far immersed in the problems of others.

Well, yeah, DG, but sometimes even the bestest fwend doesn't help, yes? I say this meaning nothing against my own bestest fwend Karen, the Great and Good. :-)

I was once asked by another Very Close Friend about my apparent ability to rebound from bad situations and to do so rather quietly. I guess that's the case, though certainly I don't do so without going through my moments of self-dissection and potential trauma and all that. But often that seems to be enough to get me through things, so I wouldn't call it stoicism, merely self-repair, if that isn't too ugly a term. I also hold to the belief, as others had told to them, that I really don't have that much to worry about in comparison to a lot of other folks in the world -- this wasn't something drummed into me as a kid, merely my own realization. As it is, I'd also like to be available when people are going through their own worries, because if they need someone to talk to and they're my friend, why, what are friends for? :-)

I have no problems. My life is perfect. And if you believe that, I've got a br...

Ach, my life is all over the place and far from perfect, but I think my friends ask my advice because so much weird shit has happened within it ;).

I couldn't think of an answer for this, then I realised that I'm not that stoic!...I say, if something's bothering you, talk it over with your friends, it'll save the gushing at a later date. I guess we are bought up to grin and bare it, to make light of problems, this helps for the minor annoyances and hassles of life, but one mustn't be afraid to show their weaknesses. I think there is always the fear of rejection or ridicule.

Stoic in the face of adversity, as defiance = classic. Being stoic to hide some deeply painful life experiences = not advisable. I think there is a distinction between the two, I hope I explained it clearly...or as a collective response stoic is great!

mark s sez: what do you do when the bus driver asks YOU for directions?

See here.

Bestest Fwends are all well and good, but if I start telling them my problems I'd be expected to listen to theirs. Obviously places like ILE are where I discuss my relatively minor problems. Real life? Pah.

I cannot bottle things up at all. I just need to vent. The last time I tried to be stoic and not whine at anyone I came home and cried every day after school. When I burst into tears in the middle of class I figured the stoicness wasn't working at all. You've all got some skill I don't (or maybe I've got some hormones or other such shitty excuse you don't).

No we're all just insensitive caveman scum.

screaming rejection abdabs

But not, of course, Architectural ones.

I believe if people have probs., it does help to talk about them. I have been there many times and today I have a good life. :) All with the Lord's help. Gale