have-a-go coward

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when i got on the bus to work this morning, the conductor (= slight and slender, south east asian, male) was in midst of HUGE ROW with passenger (= black girl, 13-15, v.v.built and muscly and tall). I didn't see the start or the right-and-wrong of it, or how it had reached this stage, but it had escalated to point she was taunting him about his lack of manliness for not punching her, and he was i. humiliated, ii. quite tough-mindedly I thought not belting her (she — and her two little mates — were being VERY EXTREMELY PROVOCATIVE AND UNKIND, from my perspective at least: not least because thanx to keeping his job he ABSOLUTELY had not to hit back and they knew it). Eventually he tried to push past her, and she pushed him down onto the seat, yelled at him for quite a while, very aggressively, slapped him viciously but unscientifically and stomped off yelling more insults and threats. On the bus (top floor): three old-ish white guys, me, a young woman, two bearded muslims in back seat; maybe a couple of others I forget.

No one — inc.me — said anything, or went to help or break it up, until it broke itself up. I don't think anything more than feelings were actually hurt, the physical was mostly pushing and grappling, but it was long-drawn-out and horrible and I feel like rubbish for not helping. At the time I could not exactly think of anything to say or do which would have helped, and kept justy hoping it wd de-escalate of its own accord.

― mark s, Monday, 12 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Which I guess it did, but not soon enough to justify my course of (in)action

― mark s, Monday, 12 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

God, this rings a bell. Was it on the 38 or 73 by any chance? This same thing happened when I was on it a few months ago going down Essex Road. Kids who refused to pay or something taunting sweet old Asian conductor who was obviously scared of them. It was horrible. No, I did nothing.

― Nick, Monday, 12 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Very difficult call. In this example, it was probably summat and nowt, and no harm done. With more serious incidents ,if you're sure of what's really going on, and someone is IN DANGER I think you have to do something. I've been involved in a couple of quite nasty ones (funny how they're ALWAYS on public transport) and have managed to stop the combat without personal harm. On the other hand - did anyone see Crimewatch last week? There were a couple of completely horrific knife attacks on buses, one in broad daylight - in both cases the victim died. I'm now not so sure that I'll help out again, especially if I'm on my own.

― Dr. C, Monday, 12 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

If I'm with someone and I see this happening I tend to speak up. Generally I find that once ONE person speaks up, it galvanises others because nobody wants to make the first move. I am also secure in the knowledge that although small, I pack a pretty nasty left hook and have taken down people twice my size. Always men.

Squalling girls, however, are a different story (as fighters, more vicious). On buses there are numbers for the bus garage all over the place and enough bloody mobile phones to borrow to covertly call for help. Unless the culprits are caught in the act with a busload of witnesses nothing much will happen to them if picked up later and they will do it again.

― suzy, Monday, 12 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Also, horrific story recently of a guy who had his eyeballs literally plucked out from their sockets after he got into an argt w/ misbehaving youths on the no. 73 bus to Peckham.

― Andrew L, Monday, 12 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

If i had a mobile i'd have started calling (or even fake-calling) the cops STRAIGHT AWAY and LOUDLY: i sort of assume no one present had one.

― mark s, Monday, 12 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Note to self: do not ride the buses when in the UK.

― Nicole, Monday, 12 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

As a sometime violence instiGator on UK buses I would have stepped in - as I know how to handle myself (I got myself a handle).

― Pete, Monday, 12 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

actually nicole i ride them several times a day, and the incidence of above-mentioned = really very low

i've been menaced just once (for playing beatles too loud on my walkman = i was clearly in the wrong)

― mark s, Monday, 12 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Surely for just playing Beatles Mark. Any volume is too loud.

― Pete, Monday, 12 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I am just very protective of my eyeballs, and got a bit squeamish at the thought of them being poked out. I probably would ride one but I'd have to wear sunglasses as a first line o'defense, though then I'd probably get beat up for looking ridiculous.

― Nicole, Monday, 12 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Sunglasses on public transport = good for eavesdropping and therefore CLASSIC.

― suzy, Monday, 12 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I once stuck up for the bus driver (who was no doubt excessively grateful...) after some blokes started giving him a hard time about being late. The blokes were being annoying and irrational but were not very big or scary so it wasn't that brave of me. They complained that they'd been waiting on the Holloway Road for half an hour, I said 'well why didn't you walk then that would have taken less than half an hour?'. I do like to strike a blow for exercise every now and then.

― Emma, Monday, 12 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Dr. C is spot on, its a very difficult call + much easier to make a judgement retrospectively. I've intervened + regretted it (someone with knife as it turned out -no harm done thank god), and kept mum and felt guilty. One incident, which I heard but didn't see, + genuinely didn't realise exactly was happening, still haunts me. What sounded like a scuffle between rival football fans (I got the hell away ASAP) turned out to be one Chelsea fan being brutally beaten and kicked to death for nothing other than being a Chelsea fan. I would love to think, had I seen what was happening, I would have had the guts to at least have tried to stop it, but would I have?

I was once hassled on a train for playing Flying Saucer Attack too loudly, the volume didn't seem all that high, must be the feedback.

― stevo, Monday, 12 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

They complained that they'd been waiting on the Holloway Road for half an hour, I said 'well why didn't you walk then that would have taken less than half an hour?'

I'm not in favour of people taking out their frustration on bus drivers, but your argument here is a bit wacko. How were they to know they would be waiting half an hour? Presumably they kept thinking the bus was likely to turn up soon. By the time 25 mins came they were probably saying to themselves "If only I'd known it would take this long I would have bloody walked". God I hate waiting for buses.

― Nick, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ah yes but you see Nick it was a NIGHT bus so everyone was quite drunk and therefore not subject to sober daytime rules of logic.

― Emma, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

A-ha! Waiting half an hour for a night bus = good result. You're right, they were clearly mad.

― Nick, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

three years pass...

(hey!! andrew l, there IS no "number 73 bus to peckham"!!)

(he observed somewhat belatedly)

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 25 June 2005 13:02 (nineteen years ago)

You'll have to check that that was also true four years ago! I shall be seeing Andrew in a couple of hours, so I shall try to remember to mock him for his error.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 25 June 2005 13:34 (nineteen years ago)

"Whether he had stood rather than sit beside her, or out of an instant genuine courtesy, quickly repented, or out of mock courtesy, I could not tell from anything he was saying; and this still further perplexed me. If his motives were the first or the third, then it was more than even I could bear, not to fight him; if he had felt one moment of reflex courtesy, I felt friendliness towards him in spite of all he was now saying. I listened hard, to learn, and could not make out. One reason I could not make out was that I was also listening to the woman. She was talking very little, and crying a little, and telling him, and the whole bus, that he ought to be ashamed, talking that way. People never done him no harm. Ain't your skin that make the difference, it's how you feel inside. Ought to be ashamed. Just might bout's well be Hitluh, as a white man from the South. Wearing a sailor's uniform. Fighting for your country. Ought to be ashamed."

—from "America, Look at Your Shame!" by James Agee, 1943 (published by the Oxford American, Jan-Feb 2003)

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 25 June 2005 16:39 (nineteen years ago)

mark i didn't realise you took such a keen interest in South-East London transport system

i will stand by the 'emotional truth' of the eyeball plucking yarn

― Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Sunday, 26 June 2005 05:18 (nineteen years ago)

See, I kept my promise to raise this with Andrew last night! And I can tell who has been watching Columbo reruns of late.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 26 June 2005 06:56 (nineteen years ago)

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