Class & Gender?

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I have discovered something as of late.A person can't aquire class. They are born with it. I have know some well off people with no class at all. To curtsy and bow is to show your respect for the special people in your life . When I was in my first years of school, the girls would curtsy and the boys would bow. Nothing looked better than the whole school in uniform. I loved it! Gale

― Gale Deslongchamps, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I liked nothing better than dropkicking waddling penguin-suited toff choirboys over the wall at Cambridge. They were all of just the right size. Rah.

― Will, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Is it possible to lose class?

― Tom, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No it isn't possible to lose class . You are born with it. Gale

― Gale Deslongchamps, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What about alignment?

― Tom, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i am currently facing north tom

― mark s, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

centER

sorry

― Alan Trewartha, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

this boy has no class = pure ass.

― Geoff, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Gale, i don't think that social rituals and uniforms necessarily equal class (not in the way i think you mean it anyhow). respecting your fellow human being i would certainly agree is classy though.

― katie, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Is it fuck!

― Nick, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

r. carmody vs. g. deslongchamps FIGHT.

― ethan, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I am so classy I once drank beer from a glass.

― Ronan, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I didn't say that the school uniforms give you class (far from it) I meant kids back then had respect not just for themselves but everyone including teachers. Today, forget it :( Gale

― Gale Deslongchamps, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Why should they show any more respect than they feel is due to individuals?

― Ronan, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I know over here Ronan I think kids in general think they don't owe anyone respect. My attitude is that you should give respect to everyone until they prove they don't deserve it. It's common courtsey you know? Say please and excuse me, open the door for people, etc. Those are small things but I think the natural instinct towards doing them extends to more important things.

I have experience teaching kids (12-18) and I'd say about 70% are horrible little creatures. Rude, vulgar, lacking all basic ability to function in society. I was told to "fuck off you white bitch" when I asked a 13 yr old to stop chatting and read while in a library. I asked politely and quietly, didn't call her out, and *hello* was the adult in charge yet that was her reply. I didn't know her and she didn't know me but a common sense of respect should have kept her from making such a reply. the sad thing is these rude little adolescents are going to grow up to be horrible adults that will wait on you in stores, work at the desk next to you, drive on the freeway with you. Perish the thought.

― Samantha, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Some people are just assholes though. I mean the kids. It sucks that they have no respect, but better a society where they have the freedom to be themselves and to explore whatever, than one where they are completely repressed, even at the risk of them becoming cheeky or whatever. In my time I never liked the idea of being obliged to treat teachers with respect. If I respected them I treated them with respect. I mean the sort of teacher staples like "that attitude is so disrespectful" or whatever used to really irritate me, it's like yes its disrespectful because I think you're a crap teacher and I've no respect for anyone who so clearly has no enthusiasm or ability for the job they've chosen to devote their life to. Also Sam what you were saying seems to me more like impoliteness, rather than lack of respect. Respect is something that kind of comes over time isn't it? I dunno I'm rambling a bit.

― Ronan, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No, you're right. I think what I am talking about is more politeness but I think that being polite implies a greater level of respectability. Does that make sense?

If someone can't be bothered to be polite then you're not going to respect them and they probably won't take the time to get to know you, respect you. Now I'm rambling.

― Samantha, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

back in the day children were only 'respectful' out of fear, the threat of violence. the thing about kids is that they're pure id and so the only way they're going to listen to you is if you work with them on their level and gain their trust (and respect) or if you beat them.

― ethan, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Eh. they're more likely to be yr. boss.

― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I disagree Ethan sorry. The only students who were threatened with the belt on the hands were usually bullies, school skippers the average students were never threatened.

― Gale Deslongchamps, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

That makes no sense. The bullies werent just threatened with punishment were they? They just fuckin got punished. therefore the threats were for the rest of the people. You do this, you get punished.

― Ronan, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It is threats that makes most kids obey teachers. Showing respect to everyone is nice. I approve of that. Still, expecting to be obeyed because you are a teacher and your job is to make kids obey is a bit irrational to me. Teachers may work to make a difference in kids' lives, etc., but that isn't going to be appreciated if the kids are forced by law to get up at 5:30 AM and go places all day long where they don't want to be. Legally students have almost no civil rights whatsoever in schools, except "freedom from cruel and unusual punishment," and supposedly no discrimination, but that's ALL I can think of. School is not like civil society where you show respect to people because you have CHOSEN to be there and if you can't stand them you can leave. School is a place where you have to go and do what you're told or you can be punished by increasingly severe steps. So no, I don't think teachers deserve complete obedience just for existing.

― Maria, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ronan, The ones who got the strap had 3 chances before they got it.!

― Gale Deslongchamps, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

gale the rules aren't your school weren't enforced by an internation treatise on how to punish kids in the fifties, you know this right?

― ethan, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

In the fifties Ethan I heard nothing of punishments at all. The only thing I remember of the 50's were soup & sandwich milk & dessert for $.06 per day for lunch. :) I'd like to see it go for the same price today for the many children that don't get enough to eat. I may just start something like that! :) Gale

― Gale Deslongchamps, Thursday, 15 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The most successful teachers in my experience are the ones who were so nice and respectful to their pupils that no-one wanted to skip their lessons or fail to hand in homework, they'd feel guilty if they did.

― DG, Thursday, 15 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

If some little schmuck called *me* a white bitch I'd ask her, in front of the rest of them, if that wasn't just a wee bit racist and sexist.

It doesn't work to call that kind of thing 'disrespect' because you've got to be specific. I got called 'disrespectful' in school *constantly* , usually by very boring, lacklustre teachers with authority issues.

― suzy, Thursday, 15 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I agree w/Ronan in principle but the problem is that one kid's crap teacher is another kid's only chance of getting an exam pass, i.e. the teachers may not deserve respect, but the kids who do respect the teacher shouldn't have to have their lessons disrupted by the kids who don't. Obviously this is a pie-in-the-sky argument to the 11-year- old mind, especially an 11-year-old drunk on the thrill of getting away with something for the first time.

When Isabel taught, obviously she didn't give a shit what a kid said to her, because it's just a kid, but it made her very sad that the majority of kids who wanted to work hard couldn't do as well as they wanted to. It's a great idea in theory to say 'work on their level' but in practise that means lavishing a massive amount of time and attention on the naughty kids while the good kids get neglected. On the other hand you can't just abandon the bad kids, so I've no idea what the solution is.

(I'm posting BTW as somebody who was school public enemy no.1 at one point, and intimidated swot at other points)

― Tom, Thursday, 15 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

As for what the kids grow up into, most of them will grow up into perfectly normal adults. But when it comes to their kid fucking around in school they'll suddenly become the kind of my-brat-is- always-right parents every teacher dreads.

NB corporal punishment is *not* the answer.

― Tom, Thursday, 15 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Problem, well certainly over here, and I presume Britains not much different, is that the courses are crap basically. Yeah I know it's an age old thing. It's even worse over here. I had to do 7 subjects for my final exams, and my best 6 results were taken. I didn't particularly like any of my subjects anyway, Irish was ok, English I could handle, but I had to choose 3 subjects to go with French, Maths, English and Irish. So basically I ended up picking the 3 subjects I thought I would hate the least. I sort of had to do Latin, I wouldn't have been any good at whatever was left, I ended up doing Business and Geography aswell. I had no interest in either of them. Bad teachers are one thing, but when you've got bad uninspiring teachers teaching a bad uninspiring course it's really really awful.

I imagine it's not as bad in Britain what with you guys doing 3 subjects? or 4 or something? I don't know. I see Toms point about disturbing other people in the class, I guess it's boredom. By the end of last year I just left a few subjects and did my own thing when they were on. Got the homework off friends and did it if I saw fit. Teachers were happy, I was happy. But it shouldn't really have had to happen like that.

― Ronan, Friday, 16 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

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