LAD MAG vs Womyn mag

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Once in a while, whilst in doctor's or dentist's waiting rooms, |I see examples ov the "LAD MAG" IE "Loaded", "FHM" and suchlike. They seem so pitifully lame. They seem to espouse the "I'm a WINNER, me" lifestyle, but everyone I see reading one on EG tyne & wear metro looks like a total mthrfckng LOSER. I also see thee equivalent womyn's magazine eg new woman etc, and they seem much less sad, despite being quite similar on the surface of it. IE more ads than editorial content. I once saw some copies of "more" (coverline - "smart girls get more!") when darling wife was in hospital, and that was k-rude & made me blush. Much better than "loaded" (nb james brown = k-wanker? any input 'ere mr sinker?) and I suspect yer average lad mag advocate would have thee old heard palpitations if they were to read "more!"

I say lad mag = k-lame.

womyn mag = not quite k-rad, but much better than lad mag!¡!¡!¡!¡

what say you, dear posters?¡?¡?¡

― NoRMaN PHaY, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

what does the "k" prefix mean, Mr PHaY?

i don't read women's magazines anymore as they are depressing. lad's mags are risible. both assume a very low level on intelligence in their readers.

― katie, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"k-" or better still, "/<-" = to thee power ov THOUSAND. IE lad mag = /<-lame = one thousand times lamer than lame.

― Norman Phay, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

ladmag = conceptual equiv of eg WOMAN'S REALM ratha then eg REAL? (eg what ladmagZoR require is the equiv of viz vis-a-vis the beano, to shake up utterly tiresome and feeble landscape of cliches)

JB = always civil and respectful towards me personally at NME and thereafter, and in hisself somewhat clevah and interesting; his various stints as editor have been um unproductive aesthetically, and led publishing down k-lame cul-de-sacs which to be fair it was going down anyway: heightened speed of entry => heightened speed of exit, SaYS the optimist

i once saw a GRATE AND V.SPOOKY pic in FHM in Saf the Barbers = pic of recent climber-body on upper slopes of everest, freezedried by wind so that half sat-up in red cagoule, apparently waving chilling greeting to a group of summiteers in semi- distance brrr (in same issue: What Do Lesbians Do In Bed: a Guide) (true) (and i read the everest story and not the guide) (true) (TRUE!!)

― mark s, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

(mathematician's timeout on "to the power of" norman: not same as "times")

― mark s, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

does kilo-lame have the same |<3w1 sound as k-lame? can we up it to M- lame or T-lame?

― Alan Trewartha, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Women's magazines espouse little more than aspirational articles on the best possible make-up/clothes/sex = part of dastardly patriarchal plot to persuade females that the superficial is all-important, and to make them feel inferior in the certain knowledge that they will never look as good/shag as well as the features in the mags. Therefore potential gender revolution will be avoided by preventing women from actually thinking about important stuff.

Discuss.

― Mark C, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Womyn mags have caused an incredible amount of damage by conditioning women to expect bedroom athletics, life was easier when they were kept in the dark about 'technique' (??)

― dave q, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

like cars

― mark s, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

gah yr right maths teacher mark. I will do 1 k-lines "I must not confuse power of w/ multiplied by". Alan, I havent the faintest idea, I'm afraid. K-lame does sound k3\/\/ler than m-l4m3, tho?

― Norman Phay, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

heh my comeback to mark c works better as a comeback to dave q

― mark s, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Rather 'I'm a winner me' than 'Loose ten pounds, get a promotion, buy the shoes that will change your life, cook a perfect meal, find perfect man and give perfect blow job'. What do you mean you can't do that already? Well buy our magazine you sad little woman. Sorry rant over. In their favour Loaded and FHM run far longer articles and there's a huge amount of research in each issue.

― Anna, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It's the distinction between practical advice for success in a real world (even if that success is potentially servile and soul-crushing) and practical advice for success in a bizarre escapist utopia. You picks and chooses depending on mood I think but neither are particularly appealing. The only lad mag I've ever enjoyed was Deluxe, put out by the same crew who did Select way back when, and binned after 8 issues for being too clever or cultured or boring or something.

― Tom, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I am going to buy Cosmo on the way home because my favourite girl in MODEL BEHAVIOUR won the competition to be on the cover and is super- fab. Certainly don't like the LOVE YOURSELF FOR WHO YOU ARE msg that's rammed down yr throat whilst peddling you a load of gumph in the name of self-improvement. But being a media studies (yay!) dork I find it all quite amusing. Cosmos "RAPE PROOF YER DATE" was however, awful. Also, as my life is nothing at all like how Cosmo states and I'm quite happy with this, I find it an amusing insight into THE SECRET WORLD OF (um), THEM!

― Sarah, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Also Mark: so women are being held back because a magazine doesn't tell them to think about "important" issues? Oh please. Womens views ! = what they read in a certain lifestyle rag and are certainly not CONTROLLED by editor of Cosmo/More whotEvah.

― Sarah, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Tom's description ov a too-clever ladmag folding sounds all too bloody typical. I just rememberd that there was an event at thee now-defunct newcastle riverside venue called "an evening with loaded magazine". People I knew worked there, and they said it was grim. @ one point some scantily-clad womyn was parading onstage, when a shout rang out from the audience "i'd like to fck yr brains out, but you haven't got any" (something like that anyway) brrrrr. Hopefully the fem onstage was getting paid loads, whilst the hex0rler was a commercial traveller for hand-drying machines, driving a toyota carina & dreaming of driving a lexus or whatever. When I see ladmags in the doctors (I'm an ill fellow, BTW, and am there often) I'm not struck by the indepthness of the articles I see. Ideal doctor's surgery reading = Hello! BTW. "princess nobody of nowhere shows us her beautiful palace after her heartrending divorce" (beautiful palace = eerily familiar furnishings last seen in previous issue apparantly belonging to actor/supermodel or whatever) also "take a break" sample coverline = "IMPALED while I was half asleep!" (I'm not making this up) beat that loaded.

― Norman Phay, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

that sounds much too soho topshelf for loaded

― mark s, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

there's the same amount of vapid cleavage decorating both of them, so what's the point?

seriously though - in the US the men's magazines have articles on topics that have nothing to do with getting a man in bed by actual WRITERS as well as even some fiction sometimes, while women's magazines are all about numbers on the cover, references to orgasms, and pleasing your man by any means necessary.

also, maxim has better picture captions than any magazine put out by any US publishing company.

― maura, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What, even national geographic?

― Norman Phay, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

US men's magazines sound very different from UK men's magazines.

― RickyT, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think they are - they're more prestigious and writerly (tho often this means a choice of wannabe-Hemingway or wannabe-Wolfe). UK mens magazines used to be the same eq Esquire UK in the 'new man' era, and then Loaded swept all before it.

― Tom, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Sarah, you must have missed the "dastardly patriarchal plot" bit of my post. The elements that seem to make up many women's neuroses are the prime focus of women's magazines, but it's a fine line between "hmm, yes, this is useful advice to help make me a better person" and "oh my god, I'll never amount to her out of Model Behaviour, I'm worthless and blotch-ridden and my blowjob technique is unpleasantly toothy".

And before anyone gets hoity-toity about me not being a woman, how can I possibly know, etc., I'm hardly trying to make a controversial or profound point, I'm just saying what I hear and what I perceive.

― Mark C, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yeah - but UK men's mag ethos got exported to the US in recent years with launch of US Maxim etc., no?

― Nick, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

a "dastardly patriarchal plot" run entirely by women, however, which NO MEN UNDERSTAND OR GET ANYTHING OUT OF?!

― mark s, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

They're the worst kind, Mark.

― Tom, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i haven't seen enough men's magazines to comment, but someone suggested the following classification to me the other day:

men's magazines = full of articles on how to get your woman to do what you want in bed.

women's magazines = full of articles on how to please yr man in bed.

― toby, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yeah - but UK men's mag ethos got exported to the US in recent years with launch of US Maxim etc., no?

Correct. Oh, magazines like GQ and Esquire still feature some short stories and investigative journalism, but the newstand is filled with Maxim, FHM, Stuff, etc.

― Nicole, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

when i go to the US i do buy some mags. don't do it here, cos they're ALL toss. This year has been the first time i've stuck to a new year's resolution, which was to stop buying music mags. my cd purchasing has gone up. my only regular papery purchase as of now is private eye.

been thinking about getting subs to some US stuff like Atlantic Monthly. anyone else get foreign mags on sub?

― Alan Trewartha, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

women's magazines = full of articles on how to please yr man in bed.

Nope, that's absolutely wrong! It may haf been like that back in the day before I started reading them, but that's defintely not what Cosmo/More peddle. They're defintely focused on females getting the best out of their S.O - doesn't even have to be male, sometimes.

― Sarah, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

A lot of men-mag offshoots (FHM bionic) spring to mind: they try and get men to please their women, more than vice-versa. Selfless sexual technique, get healthy... wear better clothes. For a 'man's' magazine, LOADS of magazines get men interested in fashion and grooming, traditionally female territory. I saw on the news a new male body image issue called 'vigorexia' (what a crap name) where the blokes try to bulk them selves up to a damaging degree, whereas women try to waste themselves away to a damaging degree. The issues of male/female body issues are getting closer together all the time in my opinion.
Personally, the Naomi Klein/Wolfie Smith side to my nature thinks they're all as crap as one another: all trying to make us slavish consumers...

― Will, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

'Issues of... body issues' = 'issues of body image'. Sorry.

― Will, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Maxim cracks me up. It's supposed female equivalent, Cosmo, is nowhere near as entertaining.

Good woman's mag = Bust.

― Samantha, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Bust is kind of iffy. Some interesting articles, but some that are just kind of risible.

― Nicole, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

R/side Nite = terrible from all accounts#as bad as IDOLS

note to myself~beware off jazz mag patrolman NoRMaN on metty

btw~mark s was described as the editor of a jazz mag in ^a guide to NCASTLE sound city^

― , Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

bust probably won't be around for much longer, and definitely not in its current form. note bit about discussions of bust sale to dennis publishing.

(truth be told, i didn't like it so much -- i thought it erred on the side of 'hey look i am a GIRL watch me play with makeup!' a little too often for my taste.)

― maura, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

OH SHIT. Actually, I could definitely find out what's going on there, Jeff Dachis and I went to high school together (we are still in touch). Shall I?

― suzy, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Suzy, I do love you. You could play a high-octane version of Six Degrees Of Separation (2 Degrees of Separation?). That means we're all three degrees of separation, I suppose.

― Nick, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

if you want to, be sure to mention to him that 99% of the post- announcement scuttlebutt i heard blamed his company's reverse midas touch pretty directly.

― maura, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Hey, I only bother with the one-degree-of-separation stuff, you know that. Knowing everybody as reasonable substitute for knowing everything, innit? His oldest brother went to school with my mum, too - HUGE family. I just feel sorry for Jeff - first Razorfish goes kerplop, now THIS. He is a VERY good guy.

― suzy, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Suzy do you know anyone famous who any of us fancies? (There is a thread about this lurking somewhere). In which case you could do something and become the ILE Cilla.

― Emma, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Both serve same purpose -- brain candy.

― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

it's kind of hard for me to feel sorry for anyone who pissed away that much money.

― maura, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well, I'd say me too except a guy with a dance degree from SUNY Purchase, how did he ever get hold of such amounts of filthy lucre in the first place?

I have my little theory about web stuff which is VCs are just interested in buying up intellectual property (as such) and then pulling the plug to put new ideas people/creatives out of the loop. Nasties. It would explain why ex-Wall Street people don't really come out of it so bad eg. J Bezos.

― suzy, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Oh and Emma, I have been the ILE yenta on a few occasions. Name your target here and I'll tell you if I can help.

― suzy, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I like Sassy.

― JM, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

OK: can you help with any of these?before:

Nicole Kidman
Téa Leoni
Charlotte Coleman
Sophie Dahl
Julianne Moore
Catherine Keener
Juliana Hatfield
Tracey Anne Campbell out of Camera Obscura
Linda Barker off Changing Rooms
Emma Jones (editor of Smash Hits)
Miranda Sawyer
Hillary Clinton
Sara Cox
Francine Stock
Parker Posey.

But mainly Nicole Kidman.

N.B. I know some of them are married and stuff

― Nick, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think I have Ms Sawyer's phone number kicking around somewhere.

― suzy, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

you have no chance nick as they all fancy me: i can tell by how they look at me from the tv

― mark s, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i used to work w/Jeff Dachis at Razorfish and at least in a business setting "nice guy" was not my impression. i'd have a Big Important Meeting with a client who was about to Walk Away from the Company and he'd show up 30 minutes late, mumble something about "moving forward" and how we were "very excited" and then leave. not smart, not considerate. not nice. he was not popular w/his co-workers, except insofar as there was a kind of stunned awe that someone like him could be so wealthy and powerful. that whole company was so smug and up its own ass that it is no wonder it is in the crapper.

(caveat: i only was there because rfish's first-EVA acquisition was the co i worked for, avalanche systems (where among other things i produced cosmomag.com and got to read ALL the confessions!) After months of sweaty nerv-osity and layoffs we are told that rfish is buying us - the next weekend we are all invited to rfish's "mayday" party as gesture of goodwill. first thing we see upon entering abandoned soho bank-cum-fiesta-hall, before we get to the disco area and hired hostesses: an enormous plasticene banner stretched between two poles, upon which has been silkscreened "SUCCESS" in 6-foot tall letters. lad mag fandango!)

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

p.s. the editor at Cosmo during time i produced the website, Bonnie Fuller, was Full-y responsible for relentless tarting-up and dumbing- down of the thing, and perhaps more than any other single person cleared a space in the woods for the giant Lad Mag Helicopter to touch down its massive gleaming bulk over here

I agree with Phay tho - there is some element of vulnerability ("weakness"?) to the womyn's mags that is sorely lacking in their male counterparts.

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

care

― Mike Hanle y, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i am so glad that someone who actually worked there can testify to all the stuff i'd heard.

more on bust's demise.

― maura, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

As for Bust, I saw that coming. They were way too pandering from the start, with a pretty bad visuals-to-content ratio. But I'm really grudgeful because Bust came out around the same time as this other magazine called "Maxine: the literate companion for churlish girls and rakish women" or something like that, and it was *way* better.

If you like Bust (or merely want to like it and buy it in hopes that something halfway decent shows up in its pages), you might want to pick up Bitch because it's much better. Bust just tried way too hard to say "I'm sexy dammit". As if more "guy"-oriented zines have to do that. I read zines for the mental stimulation, not to read feminist justifications of makeup and lingerie.

― Kerry, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I guess I haven't read Bust in awhile. Actually I'm sure it's been about a year. I don't really remember thinking it was too girly or tarted up. Bitch is good too. Either way it's a shame Bust is going down although I suppose if the creators buy it back it may experience a rebirth.

― Samantha, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

BTW, this thread's title "womyn mags" makes me think of On Our Backs or Girlfriends, not Cosmo and (bleh) Jane.

― Samantha, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Bloody hell! I'll kick his ASS!

No, seriously, he was a honey in school, the stories have all the hallmark of someone in way too far over their own head. But a ticking- off is still on the cards.

― suzy, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I H8TE On Our Backs. I worked at UPS & they insisted on shipping all issues from their press to their offices via us & I had to load like 50 heavy boxes of 'em biweekly or so & they often didn't pick em up and I'd have to load them again and the stupid boxes were packaged with the most useless tape evah and would bust open if I weren't gentle as a kitten with them & yeah.

― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I do have a pretty slanted take on everything there due to the circumstances of my arrival, so take my character assassination with a pinch of salt. Craig Kanarick I got on with a lot better, tho the fact that those 2 both checked their stocks online EVERY 5 MINUTES drove me up the wall. Shoulda been checking their bottom line eh? I am REALLY not surprised that Bust was a, er... financial failure.

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Tracer, I'll still have to have a word.

But seriously, he mailed me to invite me to the Bust pre-launch which was on 10 September so last I heard everything was cool and DAMNANDBLAST I wanted to do their London office, it's not like I didn't have the right resume. I think he may well have been flummoxed by 9/11 just like everyone else in the media, hence the art of falling apart.

― suzy, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I just found out that I'm laid off. Want to start a combo lad/woman mag wif me suzy?

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm sorry Tracer! I've been laid off before, not too bad. Right now it would suXoR though.

Did you know it was coming?

― Samantha, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

hnur. did i know? yes, and then they said they'd found a way to keep me on. then today they took it back. i AM technically a freelancer so i can take solace in the fact that i've no health benefits to lose, but... yeesh. (p.s. i am serious about the girl/lad mag. why has this never been done?? who's got $15M around here?)

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I love all mags, lad or womyn. I subscribe to Girlfriend because it's for 12 year olds and I want to be 12 again. Marie Claire and Ralph are my favourites.

― toraneko, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Em I posted to this thread last night, and now what I said is disappeared. What's going on? I am 100 percent positive it was successfully posted.

― Ronan, Thursday, 15 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No interference from me, Ronan.

― Tom, Thursday, 15 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

womens magazines have ruined my life. Now all I can think about is where my next orgasm is coming from and how I can acheive the sex and the city lifestyle in a small town without becomming known as the local slot machine

― Menelaus Darcy, Thursday, 15 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

That's weird. Maybe my comp fucked up, but I'm sure it said success. And I thought I remembered reading it while it was posted. Ah well.

― Ronan, Thursday, 15 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Secret Note to all:

Re: Messing with Ronan's mind project.
Phase #1 complete. Proceed to Phase #2.
Message ends.

― Nick, Friday, 16 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

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