What's the point?

Right now my main point is to stop beating myself up over a few things. Much better than it used to be, though.

But mainly curiosity.

To serve God and give Him glory.

(disengage)

-- Roy Kasten (rfkaste...), September 2nd, 2004 8:31 AM. (later)

This perhaps goes outside of your specific question, AaronHz! But it helps in setting some sort of context.

anyway alba and ned pretty much otm.

But seriously, i'm having a hard time seeing what the point is.

Beyond instinctual needs for shelter and food what else is there?

I've decided that the only real thing our species has done, and is somehow embedded deep within us, is that we banged on some drums or other surface and tranced out to it.

Cave paintings and all art since, as far as I'm concerned are just markers to evidence the creator presence, and I couldn't give a shit about making a mark.

If that banging a drum "woohoo!" moment is the only thing - other than needing to be sheltered and fed - that keeps us going, what's the fucking point?

evidence the creator's presence

distractions

procreation has provided memorable distractions

we are the universe observing itself

and boobies

... and going "holy shit i'm amazing"

http://nature-talk.com/locations/space/images/sombrero_galaxy.jpg

xp damn yr potty mouth

hmmph 'universe observing itself' physics/philosophy don't mix imo

xp, gorgeous pic

i ain't trying to be crazy mystical or anything, but there's all this awesome stuff out there and it would be a shame if there were no-one around to see it. and hey we happen to be part of all that awesome stuff ourselves.

Seriously, I'm strongly considering just leaving this bullshit of respectablity and responsibilities to "society" and fending for myself on the streets.

And I don't think I'd be any less unhappy.

(this isn't some fucked up glamorisation of people that are on the streets and their hardships - their reasons are theirs and undoubtedly deserve more respect and sympathy than my messageboard shit right here)

xp gis "sombrero galaxy" for wallpaper size

the point is to drink sterno on park benches and be robbed every two weeks obviously

no but seriously there is no point, no destination, just experience. the feeling of gravel. the breeze. water. the taste of an apple. these things are fabulous beyond words, and become more so to you once you are incapable of experiencing them

haha now i'm imagining "the expert" sort of wondering if he searches every corner of his town he'll find a trunk that when it opens springs out crazy stars and music plays and it goes "MISSION COMPLETED"

Or just repeating the same experience over and over to point its meaning and value are diminished while other experience hold no interest or an unattainable.

Experiencing the natural world / physical world around you only presents moments of pleasure either as a respite from dealing with the natural world or when you arrive at something new. Once experienced its not new anymore.

Extrapolate to present day gastronomy, riding that new communter link, air condition in your office, brand of beer, cake reciepe, band, etc etc etc.

I'm seeing no value in these things - music is the only thing that gives me pleasure but fuck if care about it that much anymore, it's nice and I remember how it made feel but nothing more - bleak.

I make stuff - other people get enjoyment and pleasure from these things I make; I do stuff (professionally and volunatarily) which appears to be of benefit to others. I guess I'm supposed to feel that itself is enough to continue participating?

nah that's just the stuff you do so you can afford to go feel the gravel in relative comfort, to use tracer's term

Exactly, the gravel is there anyway - I can feel it anytime. So, as long I'm not expecting protection, care or support from others I'm good to go, and can bounce.

srsly though anhedonia is a major indicator of depression and if it is seriously affecting yr ability to, well, exist, then maybe it might be worth thinking about getting some help? usual ianad caveats apply.

it sounds like a pretty awful mindspace to be in, and i think you'd be better speaking to someone a little better qualified to help you out of it than posting to ilx (non-snarky sentiment, there's plenty of people here have been through tough times and are always happy enough to talk with those in trouble)

Thanks, and IANAD caveat noted.

I still derive pleasure from the taste of a tomato or inhaling a cigarette (addiction attributes aside) or how deftly Justus Kohncke used a 303 in a remix - all examples from within the last 24 hours.

I refute that begining to consider no longer having to be reliant or interact more than needed with the larger infrastructure/systems/culture is equal to depression.

I would still gain personal pleasure in taste fine - apart from it being integral to differentiating between rotten food and ready food - as well as from sunshine, grass, dogs, sleep. Things that are there anyway.

Sure, a £50 tasting menu in a restaurant is different to a £0.75 end-of-day sandwich from the Sandwich Warehouse in Clerkenwell, but the effort towards attainment of the former "pleasure" was less enjoyable in any case. The end result is largely similar.

Same applies to booze, accomodation, holidays.

Less effort is required to acheive largely similar pleasures in the momentary buzz of alchol or the actual reason for shelter.

A banana is as great enough a taste experience as some artisan focacia.

The effort to attain and then express the suppossed "wow!-ness" of the certain pleasure is destroying my pleasure in lots of things.

But appreciate the concerns.

Having said all that, the strongest indicator of possible depression that I'm prepared to concede would be an exasperation at the emotional expense that I don't want others to expend (inspite of their sincerity, willingness, concern) and I don't want to feel obliged to have within.

ILX pals - you are awesome for letting me indulge in this. I guess I should speak with my gf.

And fuck Alain De Botton and The School of Life.

i agree that disaffection with current political/societal/cultural structures != depression although the former can all too easily feed into the latter.

personally speaking i would find it tough to keep going if i knew a £0.75 sandwich was my only option forever onwards. as much of a variety as a quality thing - but then attaining new varieties of experience becomes the effort...

If everything bar breathing seems like too much trouble to bother with (sorry to clumsily paraphrase), I dunno- you say it's not depression and fair enough you know where you're at, but it's not coming across as fun either.

OTOH, maybe you've come to some major buddhist revelation or s/thing and you're on the verge of ascension. It's a strange world and all that.

Dude! You have a gf! Girls are awesome! (* most of them are anyway)

Gf's tend towards the 'evil', on average ime.

puberty can be pretty rough, the expert, but don't go live on the streets.

haha!

xxposts: yeah my gf is awesome! and she said to me this morning that I should hang out in a Buddhist temple for well. It's been an emotional week for us.

key note- don't make big decisions on lyfe in emotional weeks.

xpost - Yeah, good advice and notes.

I'd point out that I'm not intending to or planning on stopping breathing or my being out of contact with people that matter to me most.

'On the verge of somekind of Buddhist revelation' is too lofty a description for my present "funk"

I'm heading out to do some chores, etc but appreciate the comments from y'all.

*xpost - Yeah, good advice and noted

truly, thanks

is there really a Sandwich Warehouse?

lol u don't know where sandwiches come from?

u think the sandwich fairy brings em or something? the brown roll stork?

rmde

the expert, I find myself inhabiting a similar mindspace these days. what helps me is knowing that there are people who care about me and would be pretty gutted if I all of a sudden went all timothy treadwell on them.

I also find the urge to create to be a palliative for this sort of thing.

I do agree though that w/r/t pure sensual pleasure - the five senses, sex - after a certain point everything does tend to feel like a move laterally rather than a move up. I've had the pleasure of tasting a lot of expensive beers, to use one of your examples, but most days I'll just reach for guinness from a can or bud from a bottle.

however, I feel there are so many things to explore intellectually that it would be a shame to give all of that up. there are so many books I want to read and movies I want to watch and, uh, technological doohickeys I want to grope. I'm sure you also have things in your life which bring an equivalent amount of pleasure, that engage a higher order of your brain than just the sensual zones.

Anhedonia of the sort you're describing is sometimes an indication of something more serious going on in your life, and sometimes it's situational.

I was suffering from it really, really badly to the point where getting out of bed seemed pointless. Got off the medication that was screwing up my brain, started doing some HAES type exercise, and oh my god, what a difference it made. Now it's like, anything from an Aphex snare rush to the taste of aged stilton to the sight of really big waves smashing on a beach and it's all - YEAH, this is the point. This right here. Not the sensual experience itself, per se, but being *present* enough in your own life and your own brain to actually enjoy it.

Sometimes you can get there through hanging out in a Buddhist temple. But just be warned that a lot of bad Western misinterpretations of Buddhism can lead to exactly the same nihilistic angst that you're having trouble with right now.

i think i often feel the way you're describing, the expert. especially in recent months. pleasure falls flat pretty quickly. so many things prompt in me the feeling of a kid who by afternoon on xmas day is already weary of playing with the toys they've received.

that being said, some things never fail me. reading is a big one. laughter. weirdly simple things-- for instance, going to the grocery store for some reason brings me enormous pleasure... certain activities, like singing, dancing, playing sports, i think are inherently joyful and life-affirming for most anybody. i also think it's good not to be contemptuous of our animal bodies but rather to be appreciative of sex, sun, food, sleep, etc.

anyhow i think your points have validity beyond your own headspace and are worth taking seriously and investigating further. definitely.

blueski: http://www.thesandwichmanlondon.com/

If you go there after 12.30 you get a range of whatever didn't get purchased during their office deliveries for £0.75 (admittedly, saves you only a £1.00 as they're pretty cheap anyway, but beats buying lunch from Pret or Boots)

MENU: http://www.thesandwichmanlondon.com/page1b.htm

Timothy Treadwell represents somekind of ideal and truth-seeker imo, so there you go.

what's the point of beansprouts?

To eat. Maybe to grow as a hobby or to look at.

http://www.orbis-web.com/nilsson/thepoint/POINT.JPG

This is The Point. [link to movie page]

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 2 September 2004 21:30 (6 years ago)

sorry, that was unnecessary

oops sorry for repeating a joke made 6 years ago...

the point virecroy was making was 'life is just reduplication and redundancy, yall'

xp I'm way more sorry for pointing it out!

Like, I made a post about how sorry I was and everything. I'm down on my knees over here.

http://wapedia.mobi/thumb/3ad1500/en/fixed/470/352/Bean-sprouts.jpghttp://wapedia.mobi/thumb/3ad1500/en/fixed/470/352/Bean-sprouts.jpg

you'll find the point at the very end

sprouts are a cool lil thing to plop on certain types of sandwiches