Ye Olde

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You often see pubs and shops which are called Ye Olde something. What is your opinion of this?

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 3 September 2004 07:42 (twenty-one years ago)

It is, after all, pretty silly. For a start, the "y", which should properly be written with a dot above it iirc, is simply an outmoded way of abbreviating "th". But of course that doesn't stop ppl pronouncing it as a y. Possibly even saying "yee oldie".

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 3 September 2004 07:44 (twenty-one years ago)

i'd like to see it used more jokingly: Ye Olde Mobile Phone Emporium, Ye Olde Internet Cafe etc.

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Friday, 3 September 2004 07:49 (twenty-one years ago)

that's the odd thing you see. I was thinking along the same lines on Bank Holiday Monday when I was in a small Oxfordshire town called Carterton which has a pub called Ye Olde Aviator. It occurred to me that an aviator was a strikingly modern person to have prefixed by Ye Olde. Admittedly the sign painter seemed to have Roland Garros in mind - leather flying hat, goggles, big moustache, scarf - but still.

Ye Olde Computer Programmer
Ye Olde Aromatherapist
Ye Olde Insurance Salesman

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 3 September 2004 07:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh no, don't get me started on the letter "y" (wait, is that Thorn, or was Thorn the other thhh sound?)

I'm generally in favour of Ye and Olde Tyme Spellyng, thoe!

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 07:56 (twenty-one years ago)

thorn is th. Don't they still use it in Iceland. It looks like this

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 3 September 2004 07:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, but it's not 'th', more of a kind of tongue-caught-behind-teeth variation of our 'th'. More like 'they' than 'thistle'.

― Sexual Air Supply (Autumn Almanac), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, more like the 'd' in 'dolmades', really.

― Sexual Air Supply (Autumn Almanac), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Ye Olde Aromatherapist? They would have been burnt as witches you know. Still, they would probably have smelled quite nice.

― NickB (NickB), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought that was the other "th" non?

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:03 (twenty-one years ago)

ooh, welcome back NickB - you haven't been here in ages have you? (or have you been hiding under an alias?)

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:03 (twenty-one years ago)

There's another "th" sound which looks like an italic lowercase d. One is thorn, and one is something else. The one that became "y" as on Ye is the p-like one posted above. It was especially used in parts of Britain previously under the Danelaw. It wasn't until the invention of printing that it got bastardised into Y. But a Y with a fancy tail, rather than yer common or garden Y.

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:05 (twenty-one years ago)

printing messed up everything didn't it? We lost our only incidence of a letter styled differently at the end of a word than at the start or middle, ie. "s" looked rather like an "f" when at the start or middle (in the same way that the Greek σ looks different when it appears at the end of a word, and I don't know the entity for that version!)

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:10 (twenty-one years ago)

(oh hello Mark, I've been err around sort of...)

I used to have a shop near me called 'Times Gone Bye' (dunno where they got the 'e' from) that sold stuff like William Morris mouse mats and the like. Nostalgia ain't wot it used to be.

― NickB (NickB), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Times gone "BYE!" and I just imagine time having a STOP and the universe coming to an end in some kind of reverse big bang implosion. Oh yes. Do they sell sliderules?

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the town of Carterton might feel somewhat insecure about the fact that it hasn't anything which is genuinely old, seeing as it was only established in the year 1900, so for rural south central England it is a "mere pup" as it were. Established by a Mr Carter no less, it was a small village until the HUGE Brize Norton RAF base (the biggest RAF base in the country iirc) was built there in the 1930s. The pub in question wasn't even a pub until quite recently, I think it was a village hall to begin with and then a Co-op. I think that by calling a pubb "Ye Olde Aviator" Carterton is trying a heads-up amongst its longer established, heritage-rich neighbours such as Witney and pretty Cotswold towns like Burford - the pub is named in honour of the only thing the town is famous for and I'm wondering whether I should care that the name and how it is rendered (in Gothic script, natch) is so ridiculous.

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I seem to remember being taught that the 'e' on the end of "olde" shouldn't actually be there in the first place. Also, the 'p' looking thorn and the 'y' looking one are the same. This may have already been mentioned, I'm having difficulty concentrating on threads today.

― the impossible shortest special path! (the impossible shortest specia), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Isn't the whole point about the "e" the fact that before spelling was standardised whether you added one or not was pretty much up to you?

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Look! You have one in the middle of your name!

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I need more extraneous E's in my name. Do you think I can change it to Kate Sainte Claire for maximum e-extraneage?

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Or even better, Kaite Sainte Claire?

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 09:00 (twenty-one years ago)

you'd run the risk of ppl calling you Katy Sainty Clairey. Is it worth it?

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 3 September 2004 09:01 (twenty-one years ago)

There shouldn't be an "e" at the end of "olde", that's not an Old English form, in fact "eold" is probably more accurate

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 3 September 2004 09:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, if those Ys are thorns, then that would not do, as I could not stand for it to be pronounced "Kath".

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 09:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Magic, magic e

― the impossible shortest special path! (the impossible shortest specia), Friday, 3 September 2004 09:12 (twenty-one years ago)

"Kaite" wouldn't increase the eage, though. What about "Sainte Cleare"? :p

― OleM (OleM), Friday, 3 September 2004 10:40 (twenty-one years ago)

i frequent ye olde pube

― Cheek0 (Cheek0), Friday, 3 September 2004 13:22 (twenty-one years ago)

One time at my old job this crazy old dude (who referred to himself as "Captain of the Tenements" for fuck's sake) kept insisting that when we replaced his oven, we replaced it with a used oven. Which was blatantly untrue and we actually didn't even know any refurbishment/used vendors to go through. So one day he claims there is a FIRE in the building to get us to come over. There's no fire, of course, but he wants to discuss two things. The first was painting the hallways. We were like, uh, ok, go ahead. Then he brings up his "used" oven and gets very belligerent about it. Mmy boss just ended up screaming at him, after a 5 minute conversation about the not-used oven, "WHERE would I get a used oven for you? Ye Olde Shit Shoppe?!" The man stared at him agape.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Friday, 3 September 2004 14:03 (twenty-one years ago)

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