What, No Thread About Chaos Theory?

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To celebrate my officially becoming STUDENT SCUM as of yesterday, let's talk about Chaos Theory, as reading a book about it finally inspired me to get my ass back into college to study maths.

Fractals! Turbulence! Strange Attractors! Phase Space! Bifurcations! Let's talk about it here!

Both as beautiful, pure, hard maths, and as a neat thing for hippies to go "wow!" about.

What does it mean, what were its implications, and was it as big a revolution in thinking as this book about it seems to think?

(Bleurgh, I had to file this under "science" because there is no "mathematics" category. This seems unfair.)

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:12 (twenty years ago)

(Wow I hope some real mathematicians show up on my thread because it's looking a bit lightweight right now.)

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:15 (twenty years ago)

from simple things...

― gaz (gaz), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:20 (twenty years ago)

I'm trying to remember the poem about "Big fleas have little fleas to bite 'em/and little fleas have little fleas and so on ad infinitum" but all I can come up with right now is:

Big whorls have little whorls
Which feed on their velocity
And little whorls have lesser whorls
And so on to viscosity

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:28 (twenty years ago)

My parents' microwave has this mode called "Chaos Defrost" that apparently works by utilising chaos theory.

― the impossible shortest special path! (the impossible shortest specia), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:33 (twenty years ago)

I take great comfort from the fact that I can go into my garden, hold a butterfly by the wings and stop a hurricane from happening on the other side of the world.

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:34 (twenty years ago)

Cooking with Chaos!!! Can we make a Menger Sponge-Cake in said microwave?

x-post

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:36 (twenty years ago)

But then the hurricane that doesn't happen does something funky with the weather somewhere else that means the farmers crops don't grow and before you know it you've WIPED OUT A CIVILISATION

(xpost)

― the impossible shortest special path! (the impossible shortest specia), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:36 (twenty years ago)

Cooking with Chaos!!! Can we make a Menger Sponge-Cake in said microwave?

I think it only has settings for chicken, beef, potatoes and that. Why would you want to defrost potatoes?

Plus, we'd only get so many iterations before the volume increased too much. It's not a very big microwave.

― the impossible shortest special path! (the impossible shortest specia), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:39 (twenty years ago)

Entropy! Entropy! They've all got it entropy!

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:41 (twenty years ago)

No, no, no, the volume *decreases" in Menger Sponges and Sierpinski Carepets! That's the point! Infinititely decresing volume, infinitely increasing surface space. Does a microwave heat by volume or surface area?

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:43 (twenty years ago)

I thought they *increased*? My mistake. Maybe I was confusing the surface area/volume thing--it's been a while

By volume, I think.

― the impossible shortest special path! (the impossible shortest specia), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:46 (twenty years ago)

Well, if it heats by volume, then a Menger Spongecake would explode the microwave because it has an infinitely small volume and microwaves don't like being heated when they're empty.

Ha ha, I've not even actually matriculated, and I've already got my thesis! The Behaviour Of Menger Spongecakes In A Microwave

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:52 (twenty years ago)

nearly posted this to the screensaver thread but...

http://electricsheep.org, a distributed screensaver churning out fractal flame animations faster than you can download them.

http://home.clara.net/koogy/sheep/148.jpg

http://home.clara.net/koogy/sheep/201.jpg

http://home.clara.net/koogy/sheep/263.jpg

― koogs (koogs), Friday, 3 September 2004 09:28 (twenty years ago)

The chaos book actually reminded me of a lost childhood memory... when my brother and I were little (11 and 13 or so) we had this fun game that we used to play with the TRS-80 hi-res graphics, where you would type in a programme involving these weird equations, and it would make pretty moire patterns. That's kind of what those screensaver shots remind me of, but obviously, with better graphics and prettier colours.

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 09:32 (twenty years ago)

Ah, childhood. I miss it so.

― the impossible shortest special path! (the impossible shortest specia), Friday, 3 September 2004 09:33 (twenty years ago)

I was smarter then. It's so frustrating to know that you were more intelligent at 11 than at 30. :-(

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 09:33 (twenty years ago)

What always gets me is that I always assumed that life would get easier as I grew up, and also that when I was young I wanted to be old, now I'm old I realise that was a stupid idea. Cliche, I know.

Off to the "high-maintenance friends" thread for me....

― the impossible shortest special path! (the impossible shortest specia), Friday, 3 September 2004 09:38 (twenty years ago)

Oh no, OH NO! I wished to be older when I was younger, and now I'm older I'm glad of that.

Yeah, life got harder. But I got less smart, as well, which made me not care quite so much about how hard it was. I would not be 11 again, not for all the computer power at IBM. Oh god, the pressure and the expectations of people expecting you to keep being a child prodigy or something!

Now I'm old, I can be dumb and a failure and it's OK, and if I do do anything with myself, it's on my own terms.

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 09:40 (twenty years ago)

I suppose when you look at it like that I'd be inclined to agree with you. I have a romanticised vision of the past. It was probably shit.

― the impossible shortest special path! (the impossible shortest specia), Friday, 3 September 2004 09:43 (twenty years ago)

Maybe we could create a Phase Space diagramme of the turbulence incurred as life grew more difficult as we grew up, due to the multiplicity of paramaters involved! Then we would be back on topic!

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 09:45 (twenty years ago)

Hurrah! Sorry, I didn't mean to derail the thread :(

― the impossible shortest special path! (the impossible shortest specia), Friday, 3 September 2004 09:46 (twenty years ago)

http://www.schuelers.com/ChaosPsyche/images/Fig%2019%20Phase%20Space%20of%20Ego4.jpg

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 09:49 (twenty years ago)

It actually exists. Amazing.

― the impossible shortest special path! (the impossible shortest specia), Friday, 3 September 2004 09:51 (twenty years ago)

Cooking with Chaos!!!

Well, Mandelbrot *does* mean almond bread :)

Also: Yay for math studies! What kind of stuff will you do?

(I have nothing much to add re chaos theory, alas.)

― OleM (OleM), Friday, 3 September 2004 09:52 (twenty years ago)

Well, Mandelbrot *does* mean almond bread :)

There's some kind of strange chaos-conspiracy going on here

― the impossible shortest special path! (the impossible shortest specia), Friday, 3 September 2004 09:55 (twenty years ago)

if i can be 11 again i'd have played a lot less nintendo and played a lot more guitar.

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 3 September 2004 09:57 (twenty years ago)

I have to do a very tedious basic qualifications thing first. (What's it called? GCSE or something like that? I am so confused by British qualifications. High School Maths, basically.) The professor apologised for how basic it would be, and said he was worried that I would be bored out of my mind. I said "Don't worry about me handling boredom. I've worked in accounting, after all."

He suggested sticking me in an A-level course, but that was when I freaked out and considered making the "Differential calculus? Actually, I see myself as more of an inter-meeeejiot" joke which I posted on the thread I killed.

If I get really bored, they said I can switch. I can do medians and means and modes with one frontal lobe tied behind my back, but I can't remember Trigonometry at all. :-(

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 09:58 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, GCSE. You will probably be bored to tears.

― the impossible shortest special path! (the impossible shortest specia), Friday, 3 September 2004 10:01 (twenty years ago)

Will I be more bored than I am by my job? Unlikely!

(However, the lesson I learned was that if you want to avoid having to take evaluation tests and the like, just take along a really complicated and technical book to read in the queue. The maths professor grabbed me because he saw me reading said book on Chaos Theory while waiting in the assessment queue.)

Anyway, I like this Almond Bread theory! More cooking with chaos conspiracies, please!

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 10:03 (twenty years ago)

So, going back to my Menger Spongecake, what would happen if I tried to cook it using some method which relied on surface area? Such as steaming or boiling?

Would it just NEVER COOK because the surface area was infinite?

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 10:40 (twenty years ago)

what is the point in cooking something with 0 volume? it wouldn't be very filling

― koogs (koogs), Friday, 3 September 2004 10:42 (twenty years ago)

Yes, but being made of almond bread, it would TASTE GREAT!!! And more surface area to hit the tongue! The ultimate diet food! Tastes great! Not filling AT ALL!!!

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 10:43 (twenty years ago)

More deadly than atkins!

― the impossible shortest special path! (the impossible shortest specia), Friday, 3 September 2004 11:31 (twenty years ago)

Congrats kate (i think). I ahve nothing further to add to this thread.

― PinXor (Pinkpanther), Friday, 3 September 2004 11:32 (twenty years ago)

A thread about math and not a single equation yet?

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Friday, 3 September 2004 11:56 (twenty years ago)

Well, go on, then!

― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Friday, 3 September 2004 11:58 (twenty years ago)

I left my Introduction to Waves book at home.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Friday, 3 September 2004 12:02 (twenty years ago)

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/mimg1743.gif

This seemed appropriate

― the impossible shortest special path! (the impossible shortest specia), Friday, 3 September 2004 12:03 (twenty years ago)

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