Ichiro Suzuki

http://media.theinsiders.com/Media/MLB/371383_ichiro_spring.JPG

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/art/sports/ichiro/2003/index.jpg

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/art/photogallery/gen/msweekly628/webichiro.JPG

if bonds and ichiro win the batting titles this year, ichiro is projected to win the batting title with the MOST hits in a season, while bonds is projected to win the title with the LEAST.

there was also (very brief) talk of batting bonds leadoff this year.

i am always more impressed with contact hitters and singles hitters.
i have no time for hitters who strike out constantly.

of course this means that ichiro and garciaparra are a couple of my favorite players in the game

Ruth lifetime: .342 avg, .469 obp, .690 slg
Bonds lifetime: .300, .441., .610

xpost no i don't. i was just throwing numbers out jeesh.

Bonds: 40 HR, 30 Ks

and he could field and run!

xpost hahaha

A Bonds/Ruth comparison depends entirely on how you set it up. Ruth's physical qualities and fitness, the fact that pitchers in general are faster and better than their 1923 counterparts, the longer schedule+night games+travel, would he be as great (statistically) today? I don't think so (OTOH, he would have grown up playing organized baseball and physically fit). But Ruth dominated his era like no other player, which you can't necessarily say about Bonds. And he was a great pitcher, etc.

Bonds has more IBBs so far this season than any team ever amassed in one season in the history of the game.

Bonds DOES dominate the game in this era like no other player, he's not given a chance to.

But seriously, why is this talk on an ILE Ichiro thread?

I Love Baseball New Answers
http://ilx.p3r.net/newanswers.php?board=47

there are only two guys you can really compare to ruth: bonds and williams. williams played in "the modern game", but didn't dominate it quite like babe. bonds took steroids, but did. ruth is still the "better" player, because he did it without a suspicious bulkup and throughout his entire career, but i'm sad to say bonds has probably passed teddy ballgame by now, or will very soon.

i guess quality of opponents and pitching arguments are valid points but i mostly ignore them, i'm not going to express why right now but i feel like they're red herrings for the most part (and aren't they, really?). barry's speed, on the other hand, isn't, but is surprisingly often forgotten about in this discussion, probably because it's no longer a factor in his present familiar incarnation - a small remnant of a vastly different, inferior, and...leaner ballplayer since self-obliterated by the transcendent cocktail of human growth hormones and home runs. but he's still got 500 stolen bases. ted certainly can't say that and naturally, neither can ruth. and then there are the gold gloves...

as for ichiro, sure he's not a Great, but he's great fun and if that's wrong etc, and he really is just as amazing as barry in his own way, and most of the time a lot more exciting. sorry i don't know if i can make a decent argument for him without using the same old cliches; if you don't get it now, i don't think you ever will. anyway that sisler record is, what, 40 years older than the maris record was when mcgwire broke it? so chew on that for a moment. and like oops pointed out, the game was then and is now conducive to power hitters and a lot of those home runs came cheaply; ichiro earns every single one of his record-threatening hits and we can be certain he'd be getting them all just the same in any time, any place.

[plz don't take any of the bonds steroid stuff above seriously, mostly because we don't another thread about it but i'm just jacking around anyway, sort of]

Ruth hit for power like no one had ever done in the history of the game. Bonds is very impressive and no doubt one of the best ever, but Sosa and McGwire both put up similar HR totals. The crazy walk thing puts Bonds in a whole other strata perhaps more than the dingers. He is the most avoided hitter ever, more than Ruth. Of course, if you did that in Ruth's time someone would have probably challenged you to a duel or something.

Hornsby wasn't very well liked by his teammates either.

Ichiro is probably most comparible to Tony Gwynn or Pete Rose, both of which could hit singles like no tomorrow, were good with the glove and on the basepaths.

C - Wally Schang (80 games), Fred Hofmann
1B - Wally Pipp
2B - Aaron Ward
3B - Joe Dugan
SS - Everett Scott
OF - Ruth, Whitey Witt, Bob Meusel

Not exactly Murderer's Row.

re: Bonds' intentional walks - that's mental domination more than physical. Didn't one of the SABR/baseball prospectus sites run an article showing that a good portion of the time, the opposition was better off pitching to Bonds than IBBing him?

All time, Barry v Ted v Babe is certainly the comparison to make (so carry on).

In '42, Williams' line was .356/.499/.648 w/ 36HR and 137RBI
In '46, it was 342/.497/.667 w/ 38 and 123.

He basically missed another two full seasons (maybe a little more) w/ Korea - figure all five missed seasons, he's over 700HR, 2300RBI, and the first three would have bumped his overall BA/OBP/SLG up a decent chunk.

williams was an unbelievable freaking hitter. i dunno, he and bonds are awfully close overall.

jimmy foxx had a couple seriously badass nicknames, check out baseball-reference.com if you don't know 'em.

he went to the mets and became a first baseman.

McGwire's walk totals were pretty outlandish for his best seasons. McGwire had 162 the year he hit 70 dingers and 133 the year he hit 65. Sosa is a free swinger and strikes out much more than either one of those guys.

I think Bonds walk totals are more insane the last three years because teams are doing monkey see, monkey do. The past three seasons have been when the walk thing has gotten out of hand, I don't think it is working and they would be better off just letting him hit more often, especially with no one on base. The Cubs walked him three or four times in the last series with no one on base and it ended up leading to long innings a couple of times.

Looking at the Single-season walk total leader board:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/BB_season.shtml

Bonds -- six seasons of 144 or over (counting 2004, not yet listed)
Williams -- six season of 144 or over
Ruth -- five seasons of 142 or over

If Foxx hadn't let the booze overrun the last ten years of his career, he probably would be in the same number range as Ruth.

I've heard that he doesn't think about pitch sequence -- he's up there waiting for that one strike he can drive.

Ichiro Suzuki pitching for Miami MIA PHI
Suzuki relieved Ureña. 2 6
Gillespie in right field. 2 6
Herrera doubled to deep right. 2 6
Rupp flied out to center, Herrera to third. 2 6
Sweeney hit for Hinojosa. 2 6
Sweeney doubled to deep right, Herrera scored. 2 7
Galvis grounded out to second, Sweeney to third. 2 7
Altherr flied out to left.

Ichiro gave his Seattle fans a very nice going-away gift in his final at bat at Safeco:

https://twitter.com/MazvitaMaraire/status/854836491574403072

Ichiro arriving at #MarinersST in 2001, and 17 years later. pic.twitter.com/VNr83oyd6Y

— Seattle Times Sports (@SeaTimesSports) March 7, 2018

First reply hall of fame

Ichiro 😬😂 pic.twitter.com/PVHciOzGFI

— Codify (@CodifyBaseball) November 6, 2023

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K90wdSczW4I

The Ichiro/Julio mentorship is just incredible. Also, how good does Ichiro look? He could still play!