NYC Early November - advice needed

You could maybe get me some trainers from Supreme, that would be a good thing to do! ;-)

When I went to NYC a few years back I stayed in a subletted apartment in Chelsea, and it was really nice - I just picked one of many listed in the Rough Guide. IIRC, it worked out at $1,100 for 10 days - so not super-cheap but we saved a shitload of money being able to make our own breakfasts, lunches etc, and had much more space than we would have got in a hotel.

yeah, check out craig's list and if you need advice about neighborhoods and whatnot, just ask here.

there's plenty of beautiful rural options for camping just outside NYC. You could take a train or car up through the Hudson Valley and the Catskills (tho I suspect the leaves will be down by then!) or further up to the Adirondacks. Also, some parts of Long Island are still pretty rural, I hear Fire Island's nice (tho I'm not sure what's open since that's after the season).

i'll eventually come up with an obsessive list here, but some questions - you're British, yes? how much time will you spend in each city? have you been before? wil you have a car?

To take them in turn:

We're British. We can both drive, but don't have a car unless we hire one. We have never been either before. We're flying into JFK on the 1st (any Dems needing a hand on the 2nd feel free to email - be glad to help if I can) and flying out on 15th. Outisde of that, we want to spend about 60-40 NY/DC or perhaps 55/45.

It might be tough to find a sublet for a week but it's worth a shot... as a real long shot, and if it would work for you, you could always try for an apartment swap for the two weeks.

Beyond that, you might want to look into hostels (they're not great and expensive but still cheaper than a hotel).

Things to do:
Sightseeing... Staten Island Ferry and/or the Brooklyn Promenade
Museums... Met, Guggenheim, etc. I think that MoMa might be reopened by then?
Shopping... 5th Ave and Madison, Soho

All kind of obvious but it's a start

the 55/45 breakdown is about what I'd do (or 50-40-10 for travel).

many more thoughts later, but for now, some DC lodging recommendations...

I think the ideal place to stay would be in or near the business district of Northwest DC, the area bounded by 'bohemian' Dupont Circle on the North, preppy Georgetown on the West, and the Federal city, beginning at the White House, on the South and East. This is in some sense the heart of the city, and it places you equidistant between the Mall and metro-inaccessible Georgetown. It is also convenient to three lines of the metro system - Red, Orange and Blue - such that almost everything will be relatively easily accessible (in New York, I'd think about staying near Union Square, if possible, for similar reasons).

There are many places to stay in this area and I'll discuss some of the non-luxury ones here. One stands out, though - the Tabard Inn, off Connecticut Ave, is a bed and breakfast in the heart of this area that my favorite guidebook (part of Richard Saul Wurman's ACCESS series - recommended for developing a mental map of a city and its different areas) calls a "haven for Anglophiles" and "right out of the English countryside." Lots of fireplaces. I'm going to call its price range - which is the cheapest you'll find in the city itself - "moderately expensive." Here are some other worthwhile or worthwhile-sounding places in or just outside the recommended area in this price range (ME), or just above it (E)...

The Canterbury (E) - next door to Tabard, more expensive, but with suites-with-kitchenette

Dupont Plaza Hotel (E) - located right on Dupont Circle

George Washington University Inn (ME) - a bit more off the beaten path in Foggy Bottom/West End, but in a rather nice, quiet area (especially late in the day) near the water, in walking distance of Georgetown, and close to a metro stop

Hampshire Hotel (ME) - though on an arterial street, this hotel with suites is in a lovely, tree-lined residential area (I may be biased because I used to live up the street) that is also 2 blocks from the bustle of Dupont Circle. The less-idyllic and more expensive Embassy Square Suites Hotel (E) is across the street.

Hotel Washington (E) - the oldest hotel in Washington, and rather grand, perhaps moreso than even some of its more expensive competitors. Across the street from the White House. The popular rooftop bar will probably be closed in November if it isn't already.

Howard Johnson's Premier Hotel (ME) - another one in Foggy Bottom/West End, this time closer to the water (many of the rooms have balconies overlooking the Potomac) and Georgetown but further from the metro and amenities. It's also notably across the street from the famous Watergate (VE) - the burglars rented a room here to monitor the break-in.

Lincoln Suites (ME) - cheap and ideally located near Farragut Square

Radisson Barcelo Hotel (E) - located right on P street, in the heart of Dupont Circle, and ideal for walking to Rock Creek Park and Georgetown. A touch hip and international, it always seemed.

Washington Courtyard by Marriott (ME) and Normandy Inn (ME) - these two places, both with a bit of European bearing, sit at the Northern edge of Dupont Circle, and are more convenient than others for walking to Adams-Morgan and U Street, two of the livelier parts of town, but they are also a few more blocks removed from the metro than most others here, and up a bit of a hill. The Marriott is the closer-in of the two.

Tabard Inn - YMMV

actually, 60-40 (or 55-35-10) is probably better

So I would stay in New York through the 8th, travel to DC on the 9th, and (begin to?) return (late?) on the 13th. Further explanation later. I can list some NY hotels that sound good if you're still looking.

some more explanation for now - i think a week in NYC is enough to see the essentials in some detail and that you don't need more than 3 days in DC. I'd leave the last two days open for travel so you can decide which one you want to spend more time in or to allow for a trip elsewhere. i'd recommend being in DC on the 10th and 11th - the former because it's the last day of the November term at the Supreme Court and you could probably go and watch an oral argument that morning if you get up early enough, and the latter because it's Veterans Day.

insane detail will eventually follow

no wait, actually i'd travel to DC on the 8th - Mondays are good travel days - and (begin to?) return (late?) on the 12th.

and, briefly (more to follow), this is what I would do for action-packed, super-tourist, control-freak gabbneb experience:

1 - arrive, amuse bouche of Empire State Building, Grand Central and Times Square
2 - Early History - Lower Manhattan, Ellis Island, the Seaport, the Five Points, a taste of Chinatown and Little Italy
3 - Later History - the Village(s) and the Lower East Side, including the Tenement Museum (reserve now)
4 - Window-Shopping - Midtown and Soho
5 - Riches - the Upper East Side, the Met, the Guggenheim and the Whitney
6 - Weekend - the Upper West Side and Central Park, the theater district (and a basketball game?)
7 - Outer Boroughs - Brooklyn (and Queens?)
8 - Travel to DC
9 - on the Potomac - Dupont Circle, Georgetown, the West End (and Old Town?)
10 - Federal City - the Supreme Court, the Congress, the Library of Congress, the Constitution, the National Gallery, and the Air and Space and other Smithsonian museums, evening on U Street
11 - Monuments and Mall - the Lincoln, the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, Constitution Gardens, the White House, the National Museum of American History, the Jefferson, evening in Adams Morgan
12 - some last-minute DC spots (the Holocaust Museum? something more rural?) and return to NYC
13 - either 1) Gramercy, Chelsea, the Flatiron, the old Market District (Gansevoort through Washington) and Tribeca, or 2) a change of scenery in the Bronx, Westchester or Long Island
14 - Uptown - Carnegie Hill/Museum Mile, Harlem and the Heights

alternately, you could spend the 12th and 13th traveling between DC and NYC (probably, but not necessarily, requiring a car) to see something different and perhaps less urban

what are the chances of a nyc fap on 11/12 or 11/13?

i [miss] New York

come back tracer hand! (i did not sleep at all last night because the wind was whistling so loud and the neighbors are having work in their yard done and the laborers had left stuff in the yard for the wind to buffett and rattle about. i cleaned the kitchen, made coffee, and did some reading. in less than an hour i will be like the narcoleptic taxidrivers who drive home all night ravers in the early dawn. no, actually, i am wide awake and can't imagine ever being sleepy again.)

OK - flying tomorrow. Spend election day in NYC, then off to DC for two days, then off to Shenandoah Valley for the w/e (missing opportunity to see DC UNited boo hiss), back to DC for a day, then down to NYC again, spending 6 days there then UK. Only confirmed thing is seeing The Knicks vs The Clippers.

If there are any Manhattan based FAPs between 11/09 and 11/14, could some kind soul remind one of the London Ilxors who can then txt me details PLXKTHXBYE.

assuming you're driving to the Shenandoah Valley, I would also try to hit Mt. Vernon before or after

while in NYC, if you want a less urban experience, I would head to City Island for a New England feel

Coolio - cheers Gabbneb!

some NYC live music venues:

Bowery Ballroom www.boweryballroom.com
Mercury Lounge www.mercuryloungenyc.com
Tonic www.tonicnyc.com
Knitting Factory www.knittingfactory.com

I was going to do an insane, control-freak step-by-step tour but never got there. In any event, some brief recommendations...

Tonic and KF seconded. But if you're at all into jazz or avant-garde, my first recommendation would be to catch the Mingus Big Band at Fez on a Thursday night. You can get cheaper tickets to Broadway shows - most of which probably aren't worth it (though 'night Mother with Edie Falco and the Wonderful Town revival might be good) at the TKTS booth on Front St between John and Fulton near the Seaport (there's a location in Times Square but it's much busier). a tour of Lincoln Center or Radio City Music Hall might be worth it to see the interiors here.

in NYC, I would focus more on neighborhoods and street life than museums and tourist locations (the reverse in DC), but I think the Tenement and Transit museums would be worth it, might recommend the Whitney for its Romare Bearden exhibit, and would definitely go to the Metropolitan Museum of Art and see most or all of the following: the Egyptian art galleries and Temple of Dendur, the Frank Lloyd Wright living room in the American Wing, many of the impressionist and post-impressionist works in Nineteenth Century European Paintings, the Modern Art galleries, many of the Dutch, Flemish, Spanish and Italian works in European Paintings, the Chinese paintings/calligraphy/Astor Court and Tibetan and Nepalese paintings in the Asian galleries, the Medieval galleries and Sculpture Hall, the Charles Engelhard Court in the American Wing, and the Bernini and Rodin pieces in the European Sculpture Court.

some of my favorite streets/places (some because they're old or off the grid, which may be less exciting to non-New Yorkers/non-Americans):
- Rockefeller Plaza
- Stone Street in the Financial District
- Lexington Avenue between 69th and 71st streets, and its side streets
- the area of the village bounded by 7th ave, Hudson St., Christopher St. and Houston St., but especially the curve where Barrow and Commerce meet
- the plaza of Lincoln Center at night or sundown
- Stuyvesant Street in the East Village
- 52nd-54th Streets between 5th and 6th avenues
- 53d St between 3d and 5th (and side avenues)
- walking North on Mott to Houston, then Mulberry, then the Bowery at night
- the interiors of Grand Central Station and the nearby Chanin and Chrysler buildings
- Fifth Avenue between Washington Sq Park and 12th St
- Park and Fifth Avenues between 89th and 94th Streets and side streets
- Gramercy Park and Irving Place south to 16th St
- Madison Ave b/w 80th and 83d
- 44th and 43d streets between Grand Central and Sixth Ave
- 60th-62nd streets between 3d and 2nd avenues
- Washington St south of 14th St

a few good things to eat in NYC:
- hot dogs and fresh orange (or papaya) juice at Gray's Papaya on the Upper West Side or in the Village (or the gourmet, mad cow-free ones at Klatch on Maiden Lane in the Fin Dist)
- pizza at Lombardi's, 32 Spring St in Little Italy, John's on Bleecker St in the Village or V&T at 110 & Amsterdam in Morningside Heights
- bread from Eli's (80th and 3d), Amy's (mult locations including Lex and 70-71), Balthazar (Spring St in Soho) or Sullivan St (Sull St in Soho) Bakeries
- apples/pears or cider from the Union Square greenmarket
- smoked fish from Barney Greengrass (Amst and 96), Zabar's (Bway & 80) or Russ & Daughters (Houston St)
- bagels from H&H (Bway and 80) or Ess-a-Bagel (mult locations) and Tal (mult locations) or Columbia Bagels (available at Zabar's)
- soup from Al Yeganeh (of Seinfeld fame) at Soup Kitchen International, 259 W. 55th Street (b/w Bway and 8th), daytime only
- Texas barbecue from Pearson's BBQ on the Upper East Side (81st between 3rd and Lexington)
- Cuban food at, perhaps, Sophie's in the Fin Dist (Pearl St above Maiden Lane)
- Salvadoran food at Izalco in Queens (#7 line to 74th St)
- Japanese noodles at Rai Rai Ken in the East Village or fusion sushi (can be very expensive) at Sushi of Gari on the Upper East Side (78th below 1st)

In DC, I'd be sure to walk around the side streets of Georgetown North of M Street, and East but especially West of Wisconsin Avenue, as well as the Georgetown quad at 37th and O streets (walk through the entrance of Healy Hall on your left to the fountain courtyard on the other side, and see if you can find your way into Gaston Hall). Also, check out the Potomac from Washington Harbour, below K Street in the lower 30s, downriver from which you can rent canoes and sculls at Fletcher's Boathouse. The Corcoran gallery near the White House is not essential but an underrated museum with a strong American painting collection and frequent, good contemporary and local art exhibitions. All of the Smithsonian is good, but i think the American History and Air and Space are essential. Two of the best interior spaces in DC are in the Library of Congress' Jefferson Building and the National Building Museum.

If I were to show off my definition of American cooking in NY or DC, a few years ago I would have pointed to Rupperts restaurant in DC. It's closed now, but the chefs there now consult at Perry's in Adams Morgan. Another recommended DC meal - Ben's Chili Bowl on U Street.

I'd try to check out some radio while here - public radio especially (WNYC 93.9 and WFUV 90.7 in New York; WAMU 88.5 and WETA 90.9 in DC), as well as free-form/college (WFMU 91.1 and WKCR 89.9 in New York), hiphop (Hot 97.1 in New York; WKYS 93.9 and WPGC 95.5 in DC), and political talk (liberal Air America 1190 AM in NY)

I second John's Pizza. I can't imagine it gets any better.

it definitely does in NYC, and Pizzeria Paradiso on P St in DC is perhaps the best you can find in either city. More good food in DC: mezze at Zaytinya, lunchtime specials at CF Folks (have anything with crab) and Breadline, tea and light Asian plates at Teaism, gourmet (and expensive) 'New American' food at Equinox, cajun/creole at Rocky's, African/Caribbean at Wazuri, and Vietnamese in Arlington.

Can't believe I forgot to mention NY deli sandwiches at the Carnegie Deli in midtown, Second Ave Deli in the East Vill, or Katz's on the Lower East Side

Places to get burgers - in DC, Five Guys or the Old Ebbitt Grill; in NYC, the Algonquin Hotel near Grand Central (not on the menu) or the Corner Bistro in the Village.

I'd have a drink downstairs in NYC at one of the following: O'Nieal's Grand Street in NoLita, Cellar Bar on Bryant Park South, or Blue Ribbon Bakery in the Village.

Have Brooklyn Beers in New York; Old Dominion and Foggy Bottom in DC, and Anchor Steam in both.

John's Pizza either closed or is in the process of closing, so get there quick.

oh, and the great blue whale downstairs at the American Museum of Natural History on the West Side is perhaps not essential but highly recommended (the DC natural hist museum doesn't compare)

BROOKLYN INDIA PALE ALE.

TONY picks NYC's best streets

yes #1! (last year i lived two blocks from there)

the year before i was a block from #31