Iraq. WTF?

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Ok. I fully expect to be hammered by (and informed by) all of you for posting this. But...today, a second hostage has been beheaded and the Iraqi government is planning to release one woman prisoner, of the two being held, according to reports. The demands for the release of the hostages being the release of all women prisoners, which the occupying forces say are only two.
The second decapitated in two days was dumped within? just outside of? Baghdad. So...basically, it's not difficult to kidnap people, hold them hostage, vidoetape them pleading for their lives and then being murdered, and then dump the mutilated corpse somewhere around, if not within, the city limits.
So, um, what the fuck is going on there? One would think, with all of the assurances we receive about the troops being resolved to establish peace, that maybe one area of our highly skilled military force could, I dunno, figure out where these hostages are being held and executed?
If they're broadcasting these images, shouldn't it be traceable? If they're dumping decapitated corpses around the city limits of Baghdad, shouldn't someone be witnessing it?
I point these things out because, obviously, everything is chaos in Iraq, and my (hated) president did it to prove a point that will take decades to interpret and understand.
What I fear is this: beheadings are now commonplace. I still recoil and feel horror. But less so than I did six months ago. I don't always know the names.
And noone is questioning why we can't isolate the kidnappers. Maybe it's because they are smarter than our military?
That's my rant - hit me, slay me, enlighten me, my royalty of rhetoric.

― aimurchie, Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I only yesterday heard about the british hostage, don't know the specifics - ie, why he was there in the first place? I mean, the occupying forces don't have the choice of leaving, but surely civilians do - so why are they still there? As bait? GET OUT OF THERE!

― Rumpy Pumpkin (rumpypumpkin), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:21 (twenty-one years ago)

do you know which hostage has just been executed ?

― Ste (Fuzzy), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:29 (twenty-one years ago)

You can't impose peace by force.

The Iraqi interim goverment has no legitimacy iun the eyes of the people of iraq (ask the raqis I work with).

The main aim of all the insurgent groups is to get rid of the occupying forces. that's a given but it's mainly to get them out of the way for a full scale civil war and a great battle between Sunni and shia islam.

Of course the troops should be pulled out as they are occupying illegaly. However if the troops are pulled out you will get a power vaccum. The interim goverment couldn't even control the green zone in baghdad if troops were pulled out. In the absence of the occupyiung forces. The temptaton for Iran to move in to protect the shia and the Shia Holy places would be strong (settle a few 80s scores now, much more hardline government in power in Iran now). The Ba'athist remnants could call on syria for support and the radical sunnis depending on stripe would call on either Saudi Arabia or Al'Quaeda/Mojahadin type forces. And Turkey would undoubtedly step in to crush kurdish independnce under the pretence on protecting it's borders.

So what's the way forward? stay and fight unil either the government or some acceptable force becomes powerful enough to take control?

I don't think so. The only thing really to be done (and i don't see it improving matters quickly) is to turn over the occupation to the UN with humility and contrition on the part of the US and Uk governments. Britsh and american troops under UN command (french/german command easiest to achieve due to NATO relationships) slowly replaced by other nation's troops paid for up to and including widows pensions by the criminals in this war, the US and the UK.

Of course that will never happen.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Two Americans have ben executed. The Briton is still alive. Although he will probably be killed in the same brutal way half way through Channel 4 news.

they were in Iraq to assist in the rebuilding of infrastructure (no doubt for large sums of money)

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Ed OTM, and it's probably worse than that: although the UN *might* have more legitimacy in Iraq, it's still hard to see an end to the violence to any outsiders, contractors or military. Nothing will --nothing can -- improve in the short term.

― HKM, Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:32 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe it's just the way the media push it but i don't recall insurgence with this frequency and sporadity before - can it realistically increase further/last for years?

― teh pow! (blueski), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Ed - that is really wonderful. I just wish it would happen. But Americans are, apparently voting for Homeland Security and The War On Terrorism - which is as effective, apparently, as The War On Drugs. Because both are insidious and change names and alliances quicker it takes cocaine to become crack.

― aimurchie, Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I wish I could be convinced that handing over military presence to the UN would stop the unsurgency, but it strikes me as wishful thinking at this stage.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:38 (twenty-one years ago)

unsurgency = insurgency. Ahem.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:38 (twenty-one years ago)

(no doubt for large sums of money) - this is a fucking ridiculous assumption and lazy charge. do some research ed.

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:40 (twenty-one years ago)

It isn't ridiculous at all -- even the aid agencies have mostly pulled HQ out of Iraq itself. Maybe he was there for small sums of money, which is sadder, but still not the wisest career move.

― HKM, Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:41 (twenty-one years ago)

But why are civilians still there when people are being kidnapped so often? Then when they do get kidnapped and the families start appealing to the government to do something the government simply cannot do because it isn't feasible, like we had Kenneth Bigleys family on the telly appealing to Tony Blair saying "Do something, anything, bring our dad/husband/brother home".

He should have been home ages ago - then he wouldn't have been kidnapped - no?

x-post he's a contractor? he knew the risks then

― Rumpy Pumpkin (rumpypumpkin), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:42 (twenty-one years ago)

It won't stop the insurgency. the UN has slightly more chance than the US/UK, not much more, but a little.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:42 (twenty-one years ago)

'One of the kindest souls . . .'
Friends say financial bind led Georgian to job in Iraq
By DON PLUMMER
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 09/21/04

Jack Hensley's love for his family drove the Marietta man to trade the safety of home for a better income in a dangerous land, family and friends said Tuesday.
In Powder Springs, Terri Daniell remembered Hensley talking about helping his daughter with her homework and the small conversations they had at the Austell post office, where Hensley worked just before he left for Iraq in February.

Family photo/AP
(ENLARGE)
Jack Hensley in this family photo taken January 24, 2004, provided by Hensley's brother, Ty Hensley of Charlotte, N.C. Tuesday.

TODD SUMLIN/AP
(ENLARGE)
Ty Hensley of Charlotte said his brother Jack's life centered on his wife and daughter.

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Hensley never complained about the long hours or hard work at his part-time job, Daniell said.
"There's nothing bad you can say about Jack," Daniell said Tuesday, still hoping that reports of his death might be a mistake. "I don't want to use past tense."
Speaking from his home in Charlotte, Ty Hensley, 36, pieced together a verbal picture of his older brother's life, which he said centered around his wife, Pati, and daughter, Sara.
Jack Hensley was a 1973 graduate of Ponca City High School in Ponca City, Okla., his brother said.
Their mother, Julia Hensley, worked for the Kay County Health Department in Oklahoma for many years. She now lives with her son's family in Marietta.
Jack Hensley, whose 49th birthday is today, graduated from the University of North Carolina-Charlotte with a mathematics degree in 1977. "He majored in math and worked for Duke Power in Charlotte," his brother said.
Hensley and Pati met in Colombia in South America where they both worked in the computer business when he was in his late 20s.
He also worked in Saudi Arabia for about a year and a half, his brother said.
Jack and Pati married and moved to metro Atlanta in 1984, and both worked for Getronics in Atlanta, company spokesman Thomas Burke said Tuesday.
Hensley worked on big projects there from 1984 until October 2001, first for Wang Computers and then for Getronics after it bought Wang, Burke said from Getronics' U.S. headquarters in Billerica, Mass.
"A lot of people in Atlanta know Jack and say he was a very nice guy," Burke said.
Getronics co-worker Bill Melvin said Hensley combined technical savvy with people skills when managing large-scale telecommunications projects.
"Jack was very diplomatic and tactful," Melvin said. "He was able to communicate with people without talking over them."
Melvin, who worked with Hensley for 17 years, said there was another dimension to the technology expert.
"Overall, Jack was one of the kindest souls I've ever known. He loved his daughter. He loved his wife," Melvin said. "I'm heartbroken for Pati and Sara. I cannot possibly imagine the horror they are facing."
Jack and Pati Hensley moved from Cobb County's upscale Vinings community to their home in Marietta 10 years ago and refocused their lives when their only child, Sara, was 3, said Hensley's brother.
"In the '90s, the computer business was racing so fast that both he and Pati decided they just didn't want to keep current and go with the jobs," he said. "They wanted to focus on their daughter."
Pati quit her computer job and with her husband co-owned Networks, a sports bar in Powder Springs, from 1994 until 1999, according to Cobb County records.
They relocated the business to Maxim Road in Douglas County, operating under the name Our Place from April 2000 to January 2003. They sold the business, located near Thornton Road, which now operates as Marlene's.
In the past couple of years, the Hensleys had money problems, his brother Ty said. At one time, he said, Hensley had three part-time jobs — at a convenience store, delivering mail and as a substitute teacher.
Hensley went to Iraq to work for Gulf Supplies & Commercial Services "to get his family above water," his brother said.

"He is very close to his daughter," he added. "He saved his vacation days to come home in June to surprise her for her birthday."

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:42 (twenty-one years ago)

That's not a lazy charge, it's a fact. Go and work in Iraq for anyone but an aid agency and you will get paid a lot of money. The guy who sits next to me had his salary quarupled whilst he was working in Baghdad.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:44 (twenty-one years ago)

how does the un have a 'slightly more chance to stop the insurgency' than the us/"uk"?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:44 (twenty-one years ago)

The UN didn't do the invading. Admittedly they don't have the grreatest reputation in Iraq because of Sactions and Oil for Food. There isn't anyone else though.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:46 (twenty-one years ago)

In an ideal world it would be good if the UN could step in, but in order to do so it would need countries prepared to supply at least 140,000 troops - in fact probably much more, since the coalition forces have proved that this is not enough. Who are these countries that will supply these troops? I don't see anyone stepping up to the plate. In fact, France has already said it wouldn't contribute troops for a UN force under any circumstances. And even if the UN could muster the troop numbers, why would the insurgency have any different attitude towards them? I don't know what the solution is, it is all such a fucking mess, but I think what is needed now is some pragmatic thinking rather than blame-gaming.

― Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:47 (twenty-one years ago)

UN *may* be seen as more legit by Iraqis not being implicat ed so much in the war and especially the torture. But no-one's saying that'll settle things immediately.

― HKM, Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:48 (twenty-one years ago)

between brits gigggling over americans dying on the hurricane ivan threads and brits giggling over hostages being beheaded on this thread i think i've had enough of ilx. bye bye, may there be someone to snicker over your graves.

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Do you think the insurgent activists are convinced Iraq can be stabilised without tight US/UK/UN control? or is their motivation just pure anarchy?

― teh pow! (blueski), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:51 (twenty-one years ago)

mr blount that's an awful generalisation and i hope you don't mean it.

― teh pow! (blueski), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:52 (twenty-one years ago)

"(no doubt for large sums of money) - this is a fucking ridiculous assumption and lazy charge. do some research ed. "

The two Americans who have been beheaded, and the Brit who is about to be beheaded, were working for a private contractor.For large sums of money. As has been reported, they shared a house in Baghdad, and had hired security.
The security guard was not there, so one of the three left the compuond to start the generator, which was when the kidnapping took place.
The premises were relatively undisturbed...except for the fact that the occupants were missing.
However, nobodycan really say when they were taken, where they were taken, or anything else until the heads and bodies appear. my point being - something is very fucking wrong with a huge military force that can't find kidnappers who broadcast their murders on the internet.

― aimurchie, Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Who exactly is giggling?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:52 (twenty-one years ago)

no-one here has snickered about americans dying on this thread.

stevem: 'stabilization' is a bit of a red-herring word, and i doubt it's on the lips of the people beheading hostages. i would imagine they want no outside intervention at all. if they want stability it won't be stability as defined by the western powers (saudi is 'stable' -- ie a western-backed dictatorship).

― HKM, Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:55 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost - I dunno. Most of the people giggling about Ivan on that other thread were Americans.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

well yes enrique i guess i meant 'stability' as in what was experienced under Saddam, tho those quotemarks just aren't big enough. thru the eyes of our media, Iraq seems ten times more dangerous now.

― teh pow! (blueski), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 13:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Blount's showing classic signs of being sick of ILX for his own reasons but needing to find a scapegoat for the fact that he's lost the love.

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 13:02 (twenty-one years ago)

And, as i have said before, I am at home and on dial up, so i am always many posts behind. But, Yeah - who's giggling? The Americans were killed, I believe, in order.Yanks trump Brits in negotiationg terms. The question is, I suppose, how do we feel about having a face that is dying for our policies? I am unsure - I don't think we should negotiate with "terrorists", but in some cases, i feel like they're not demanding much. Two women for three (now one) man. The women are being held because they worked on Sadaams WMD. Well, apparently they were not very successful, and they should be released.

― aimurchie, Wednesday, 22 September 2004 13:03 (twenty-one years ago)

i fear he just hates teh Brits anyway, see the 'pronunciation of hawt' thread. easy jb!

― teh pow! (blueski), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 13:04 (twenty-one years ago)

aimurchie -- i don't think the demands need to be taken literally. i doubt very much the release of the women would have done a thing.

― HKM, Wednesday, 22 September 2004 13:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Were people really giggling about Ivan? Well, y'know, it might be God's way of telling Florida they fucked up four years ago.
I haven't looked at any news update, but earlier the Iraqi government was releasing on of the women....but denied it had anything to do with the hostages.
My moral problem is that i am starting to accept beheadings as a result of war/occupation.

― aimurchie, Wednesday, 22 September 2004 13:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, y'know, it might be God's way of telling Florida they fucked up four years ago

haha that is an asshole statement

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 13:14 (twenty-one years ago)

although perhaps i should be less bitchy about it, sorry

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 13:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuck it, why is there any crime at all? If as you say it is so easy to stop this shit happening. Bottom line the U.S. intervention in Iraq has provided extremists with both the time (chronic unemployment) and the inclination (duh?) to do horrible things like this.

― lukey (Lukey G), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 13:16 (twenty-one years ago)

It was an illustration of jokes that have been made concerning the hurricane.
So - how do you feel about beheadings? Are they now just run-of-the mill, or is each individual a name/face for you?
Is it political or personal? or both? I am asking for answers.

― aimurchie, Wednesday, 22 September 2004 13:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I would be surprised if it was personal.

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 13:22 (twenty-one years ago)

it's horrible, but -- what do you mean 'how do you feel about them?'? i feel about as bad as i do about all the pointless deaths this war has caused. they are only names and faces if the media report it, and obviously many are dying in iraq every day, just in less 'dramatic' circumstnces.

― HKM, Wednesday, 22 September 2004 13:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Like I've said elsewhere, its the image of someone sitting there with a bag over their head seconds before they're about to be beheaed that makes the difference. The emotive factor is just 100 times greater than an anonymous soldier or civilian I've never heard of. God knows what sort of state I'd be in if I'd seen the video (especially if there's sound).

I said similar things about the pictures on the front page of G2 last week - I'm not confining this to Brits or civilians or troops or whatever.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 13:28 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, but...there is a post on this thread detailing the personal details of a man who was beheaded. Obviously, the personal details are important to someone.
"he was a great guy. he loved his children." Well, so were all of the Iraqi civilians that have been, namelessly, killed in the war and occupation.
i am simply asking - is beheading now so commonplace that we don't even distinguish them by name? And, if so, are we becoming immune to certain horrors?

― aimurchie, Wednesday, 22 September 2004 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)

No and no. I also think this analysis of "have we become numb to these horrors" is a total sidetrack of psycho-babble which is neat to discuss and write term papers on, but is nowhere as big as the questions of "why are we in iraq" and "how/when are we going to get out". Sorry to sound dismissive.

― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)

"Like I've said elsewhere, its the image of someone sitting there with a bag over their head seconds before they're about to be beheaed that makes the difference. "

yahoo has a link to a video that, while not showing the actual beheading, shows some stuff. Yahoo! (!!!) That's pretty mainstream.
I reeled in horror and retched at the verbal description of Armstrong rocking back and forth, on his knees, while the hooded men ranted and then cut his throat.
But, y'know, I have an active imagination.
I suppose i would try to release hostages - but, y'know, I'm a sucker for the duct tape and blindfolds and pleas.

― aimurchie, Wednesday, 22 September 2004 13:45 (twenty-one years ago)

"No and no. I also think this analysis of "have we become numb to these horrors" is a total sidetrack of psycho-babble which is neat to discuss and write term papers on, but is nowhere as big as the questions of "why are we in iraq" and "how/when are we going to get out". Sorry to sound dismissive."

Well, y'know, it does hurt a little. BTW, what's wrong with discussion - and term papers? And what is a sidetrack of psycho - babble? Does that get us back on the main line?

― aimurchie, Wednesday, 22 September 2004 13:52 (twenty-one years ago)

All the same, no one has ever been an asshole after death...

― Jimmy Mod, Los Sexx Yanqui (ModJ), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 14:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I am just becoming more and more removed. I feel like nothing could affect me. I shudder and gasp and retch - and then I walk on. I am becoming a cipher.
Not so long ago, this stuff would have been HUGE! Now it's commonplace. And, yes, i am talking western media - the things we see depicted...anyway, I'm going out to take a walk, and hold my head betwixt my hands muttering "What is the sense of this?"

― aimurchie, Wednesday, 22 September 2004 15:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sure there are some heirs who would dispute that point.

― Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 15:46 (twenty-one years ago)

aimurchie, are you railing against basic human adaptability here?

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I am just very fond of my head right now, having walked around muttering to myself.
"basic human adaptability?" is that, like, when the shit hits the fan?
I don't aspire to have answers - i'm questioning questioning in my head my head.

― aimurchie, Wednesday, 22 September 2004 16:51 (twenty-one years ago)

aimurchie, executions are a generally accepted form of punishment in some of the world's most 'advanced' countries.

― HKM, Thursday, 23 September 2004 07:36 (twenty-one years ago)

That's true. And maybe advanced countries should allow their victims to plead for their lives before they execute them on tape.

― aimurchie, Thursday, 23 September 2004 11:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I see that Jack Straw basically said "we'll do what we can, but it doesn't look good and we don't negotiate with terrorists".

Sheesh, then I guess the US and the UK must have cut off all ties with Sharon recently then?!

I see it's not Straw's fucking son or daughter being threatened with decapitation. Fuck him. Yes we should negotiate and yes we should do what we can to save this man's life. If it means releasing two women (who have probably been raped by yank soldiers in prison - and it's this sort of thing that's brought all this on, why they STILL give American soldiers guns and ammo and any position of authority, based on simple history, is beyond me) then so be it.

Then we should get the fuck out of there and leave them all to it. I'm fed of hearing about Iraq. It's a fucking mess.

― Straw is a moron, Thursday, 23 September 2004 12:03 (twenty-one years ago)

We don't negotiate with terrorists - unless they hold public office.

― aimurchie, Thursday, 23 September 2004 12:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Straw would not be stupid enough to say "we don't negotiate with terrorists", only someone in the Bush administration or Vladimir Putin could be that stupid

― Dadrockismus (Dada), Thursday, 23 September 2004 12:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Straw did say exactly that - when i read the report, I thought "Wow, the illusion of the British "stiff upper lip" has just gained new resonance.".

― aimurchie, Thursday, 23 September 2004 12:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Given that Iraq is now a sovereign state and is running its own affairs why the fuck does it matter who Americans or Brits would or wouldn't negotiate with?

The Iraqi Justice Minister was on TV saying explicitly that the women should be released - then Colin Powell and Jack Straw make noises against concessions and the releases are cancelled. This is *after* due process (wonderful phrase) has been completed on one of the two women and SHE WAS GOING TO BE RELEASED ANYWAY.

I wonder if Jack Straw has any fucking idea how the Good Friday Agreement came about.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 23 September 2004 12:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Why would Straw say the British government does not negotiate with terrorists when it very obviously has done so in the past and, in fact, is still doing so as we speak?

― Dadrockismus (Dada), Thursday, 23 September 2004 12:48 (twenty-one years ago)

... if Straw actually said those exact words, but, as I said, I would thought he would be too clever to do so

― Dadrockismus (Dada), Thursday, 23 September 2004 12:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Given that Iraq is now a sovereign state and is running its own affairs...

hahahahaha, wait, are you trying to be funny?

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 23 September 2004 12:49 (twenty-one years ago)

The Iraqi Justice Minister was on TV saying explicitly that the women should be released - then Colin Powell and Jack Straw make noises against concessions and the releases are cancelled.

You might as well have said "Colin Powell and Mickey Mouse make noises against concessions" for all the influence Jack Straw wields

― Dadrockismus (Dada), Thursday, 23 September 2004 12:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I do think it is ludicrous that the women being held are under investigation for contributing to Sadaams WMD program. Um, if I recall correctly, there were no WMD.s. Which means these women really sucked at their jobs, and should be released because they obviously pose no threat to anyone.

― aimurchie, Thursday, 23 September 2004 12:55 (twenty-one years ago)

hahahahaha, wait, are you trying to be funny?

Let's just say I didn't expect that statement to pass without comment. Nonetheless that is exactly what the US govt said at the end of June.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 23 September 2004 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

the US govt. says a lot of things.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 23 September 2004 13:06 (twenty-one years ago)

and yet so little

― teh pow! (blueski), Thursday, 23 September 2004 13:09 (twenty-one years ago)

otm.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 23 September 2004 13:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Of course I'll respect you in the morning! Let's get that bra off.

― US Govt (Dan Perry), Thursday, 23 September 2004 13:12 (twenty-one years ago)

there was never a bra!

― teh pow! (blueski), Thursday, 23 September 2004 13:14 (twenty-one years ago)

there was never a bra!
Let's arrest the bastards that didn't make one!

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 23 September 2004 13:19 (twenty-one years ago)

But they had plans to buy a bra one day - you could tell by their faces

― Dadrockismus (Dada), Thursday, 23 September 2004 13:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Plus they bought a bra off us 10 years ago, and haven't since, so they might be trying to buy another one off someone else by now.

― M&S (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 23 September 2004 13:28 (twenty-one years ago)

can the bra which doesn't exist be undone within 45 minutes?

― teh pow! (blueski), Thursday, 23 September 2004 13:42 (twenty-one years ago)

They smuggled the bra to Iran, who are currently engaged in major lingerie development programme as we speak

― Dadrockismus (Dada), Thursday, 23 September 2004 13:44 (twenty-one years ago)

fun vs guilt - the new war

― teh pow! (blueski), Thursday, 23 September 2004 13:46 (twenty-one years ago)

god forbid they sell suitcase bras to muslim terrorist organisations.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Thursday, 23 September 2004 13:53 (twenty-one years ago)

This reminding me of last night's Law and Order (RIPPED FROM THE HEADLINES!!!!1111) about Abu Gharib. In a very dramatic moment, one of the guards said defiantly "I would put panties on the head of every prisoner if it meant saving one American life!"

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 23 September 2004 14:01 (twenty-one years ago)

How many did they say they would sodomize?

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 23 September 2004 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Three.

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Thursday, 23 September 2004 14:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Sounds about right.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 23 September 2004 14:08 (twenty-one years ago)

In a very dramatic moment, one of the guards said defiantly "I would put panties on the head of every prisoner if it meant saving one American life!"

hahahaha that was so awesome, like basically a really poor paraphrase of Jack Nicholson's "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!" dialogue. I love L&O.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 23 September 2004 14:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow. We have gone from bras to panties. Both of which I would wear on my head if the ocassion called for it.I'm so mad that i was here last night, instead of watching my beloved L&O. @#$%!!(%$.

― aimurchie, Thursday, 23 September 2004 15:55 (twenty-one years ago)

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