The Liberal Democrat Thread

I thought this was gonna be a gabbneb thread.

One of the dumbest reasons I've heard for not supporting Lib Dem is that "Oh, they never win, so what's the point?". This is the weakest form of defeatism I've ever seen.

Welcome to British politics: on one side, a power-tripping Cheshire cat vs a basically racist fuddy-duddy with less charisma than a mouldy steak and ale pie. Why is it that the people who talk the most sense in politics are the ones that are constantly shunned for their ambition and idealism?

But taking my idea that Lib Dems don't have sufficient balls further - why have any form of local taxation at all? Fact: 75% of local authority taxation comes stright from central government. Why have any local authority tax raising power at all? Cut admin costs by actually abolishing local taxation completely and allocate the whole lot from central government through income tax. The fact that the lib dems are calling for local income tax rather than a complete abolition of local taxation is an example of their timorous nature. Be bold! And demonstrate yr sense of European siblinghood by learning from our European partners - in Spain, there is no local taxation and my Spanish colleagues are genuinely perplexed by the UK's two tier tax system.

Mebbe the lib dems wouldn't remodel the UK on the Swiss model, but they would come closer to it than any of the other parties!

Is this about other countries and stuff?

as for switzerland: wtf? "we will defend our borders against attack from outside, but if anyone tells us to particpate in a foreign war, well, they can sit on _¦_ and spin!"
talking about swiss ethics is the funniest thing ever, given its primary souce of income. i guess 'foreign war' here includes germany vs france, which made life interesting. but in the real world i do not get the feeling that the lib dems would have gone against bush. they're so inconsistent there's no knowing what they'd do. and i voted for them too!

dave b otm on the lib dems' actual policies now. i don't see how disgruntled socialists can vote for them given that they are to the right *even of labour* on most economic issues.

Does he sound thirsty enough?

So what to Lib Dem supporters think of the fact that the new young bloods in the party want to move it to the Right?

"The Lib Dems are stating that the environment will run through the core of their policies, but this seems at odds with their other aims of better dental care, and a reduction in obesity."

WHAT TEH FUCK IS HE TALKING ABOUT??? What has one got to do the the other?

96 Brighton Pavilion - (2001:Lab/Co-op Hold)
Region: South East County: East Sussex

2001 General Election
------------------------------------------------------------------------
7th June 2001  Lab/Co-op Hold
Candidate Party Vote %age Change
*David Lepper Lab/Co-op 19846 48.73% -5.89%
David S Gold Con 10203 25.05% -2.64%
Miss Ruth L Berry LD 5348 13.13% 3.65%
Keith Taylor Grn 3806 9.35% 6.79%
Ian Fyvie SLP 573 1.41%
Bob Dobbs Ind 409 1.00%
Stuart Hutchin UKIP 361 0.89% 0.52%
Ms Marie Paragallo PLA 177 0.43%
maj 9643 23.68%
 
Turnout 58.85%
Electorate 69200
Wasted Votes 20316 49.89%
 
Changes in Votes
Lab/Co-op -6891
Con -3353
LD 704
Grn 2557
Ind 284
UKIP 182

A sniff of (coalition) power in Scotland and they binned their "no negotiation on tuition fees" stance in a fucking nanosecond.

Typical of any minority party they can make all the noises they want about radical changes to tax, health, education, environment, etc. but given the chance to wield such power I'm fairly sure you'd see it stripped down to resemble the lack of ambition that has typified the current administration.

I'm not even going to go into the complete fucking shambles Lib Dems have made at a local level in my constituency.

I'm sticking with None Of The Above until someone convinces me otherwise. I might vote for some single issue twonk in a funny suit.

Please vote for someone at least. I honestly think you can't complain about any political party unless you use your right to vote.

you can't complain about any political party unless you use your right to vote
Does voting for the winner preclude one from complaining about them? If someone is making an arse of running my country I reserve the right to complain regardless of whether I voted or not.
The fact that up to 40% of people in the country do not use their vote is reason enough to complain about *every* political party.

Ye should've seen ma faither's heid, it wis THIS BIG.

Particularly this bit:
To be sure, there are important differences between Labour and the Lib Dems that go deeper than cultural and historic animosity. Labour remains the only party for the dispossessed, where its heartlands remain. Despite control of Liverpool, Newcastle and other urban territories, Lib Dem political roots are still in middle England. Lib Dem policy-making has a tin ear for questions of equality and class. They are nice people from nice places, and their policies are not aimed at the poor. Where in Kennedy's speech yesterday was Labour's great pledge to end child poverty?

Overwhelmingly OTM. That's why they don't really do unions; nice people don't need unions; they negotiate their own salaries.

However, the LDs are, we must remember, the result of a merger between the Social Democrat Party and the Liberal Party. I'd need to examine the history in more detail, but the Libs were apparently much less Atlanticist (certainly than the likes of David Owen). And quite tellingly, the SDP was itself split over economic issues; the likes of Shirley Williams and Roy Jenkins can hardly be claimed as Thatcherites, they supported a sort of One Nation, moderate socialism. David Owen seems like a prototype Blair in many ways, however...

I myself would at this minute vote for the LDs, but would be much happier doing so if I could be surer they were in the Lloyd-George/Roy Jenkins lineage, rather than that of the earlier-19th Century 'economic liberals'/David Owen - which these Orange Book scribes seem to be. It seems they've made so much progress in recent years by standing so strongly against the war in Iraq and for higher taxes for the top band earners etc. It would be real folly for them to become more Thatcherite. I myself would rather like a party that had the economic policy of Gordon Brown, the social policies of Simon Hughes and the political guts of Ken Livingstone, say.

They could do with a few more ambitious goals (35 hour maximum working week anyone?), which Labour at least are looking towards, and less talk of 'Freedom'. I'm utterly sick of the way this word is twisted; freedom for private companies to make profits out of PUBLIC SERVICES seems to me what the word amounts to when used by a New Labour 'moderniser' or one of these LD right-wingers.

I was talking to my mum about this last night (I had actually forgotten about the by-election and it just came up in conversation) and whereas there is possibly no doubt this is a protest vote, there's a real possibility it could actually carry over to the election. Plus a lot of protest voters didn't actually vote for the Lib Dems and could switch to them to keep Labour out come the election.

Prominent Lab figures are being disingenuous, however. Their decision to waive Parliamentary rules and allow their candidate to stand without resigning first as an MEP I think betrays some uncertainty as to whether they could actually win.

Let's not lose sight of how fundamentally in Lab heartland this is though, firmly in "strategically shave a monkey, put it in a suit with a red rosette and watch it win with a 10,000 majority" territory.

The funniest bit is: it's also Gordon Brown's constituency. He lives on Ferryhills Road in North Queensferry.

first against the MOR wall when the revolution comes imho

I hope someone asks "why should I bother voting for you at the next election when I have no idea which of two oppositional parties you could end up propping up?"

tbf would be impressed if they actually do dump labour's police state shit

"A big cheer from the Liberal Democrat conference as Nick Clegg says he still believes the war in Iraq was illegal"

Come on, raise your standards, LibDems! At this stage you might as well cheer him for saying that Hitler was a bad person.

kind of a dick thing to say anyway

if he actually thinks it, could he not use his power to bring the guilty to justice?

otherwise it's a pretty much meaningless statement

"Spending cuts are not an ideological attack on the size of the state" apparently. Tories must be just openly sitting there salivating about the point at which they can do away with him.

iraq thing surely to show he's still libdem 4 life to the faithful

Councils will be able to borrow money against future earnings, wtf where did THAT come from? Is that wise right now?

the hell?

a minute ago he was saying borrowing is bad

idk, 'earnings'?

guess this means squabbles over housing of the poor, forcible evictions, etc

it augurs ill

Most of the LibDem delegates are in local government. Can't see CLEGG'S COUNCIL TAX TIMEBOMB going down well.

of course, you can only borrow if the banks like your business plan, and this would be one way to 'streamline'/privatize the living fuck out of everything

off to the uranium mines for the unemployed then

Councils can borrow from central government as well presumably, after they implement massive funding cuts.

dunno why this is a big deal, councils can already borrow and often do, billions over the last decade. banks don't care because if things go wrong, council tax just goes up.

oh right, they used to be able to borrow for housing, now they'll be able to do it for vainglorious "regeneration" projects on the basis of future increased business rate returns. yeah terrible idea.

wish i could see what's on neil's laptop. bet he's just maintaingin his bebo profile

of course, you can only borrow if the banks like your business plan, and this would be one way to 'streamline'/privatize the living fuck out of everything

― paying AFFECTIONATE homage to his somewhat exaggerated teeth (history mayne)

could sub govts for councils and banks for markets there too.

Clegg is Just Like Us:

“David was still on paternity leave and I was holding the fort. They were installing themselves in the flat upstairs and David said to come up and see little Florence - who is adorable. So I went up, and found her asleep, but the Prime Minister struggling with an IKEA cupboard which he was assembling. I felt I was able to provide some helpful tips, having struggled with IKEA cupboards myself before. We’re both young dads, with young children, who struggle with IKEA furniture. Have you ever undone an IKEA screw? It’s one of the great challenges of the world!”

http://twitpic.com/2qco0i

"... We’re both young dads, with young children, who struggle with IKEA furniture. Have you ever undone an IKEA screw? It’s one of the great challenges of the world!"

*retch*

“David was still on paternity leave and I was holding the fort. They were installing themselves in the flat upstairs and David said to come up and see little Florence - who is adorable...

Vince Cable has told the BBC that ministers are considering "potentially quite tough sanctions" against banks which give out large bonuses.

Ooooooooooh, that's tellin' 'em, Vince

Here's gratitude for you...

Latest YouGov/Sunday Times voting intention figures CON 41%, LAB 39%, LDEM 13% 11:00 PM Sep 18th via CoTweet

Latest YouGov/Sun voting intention - CON 39%, LAB 39%, LDEM 13% about 2 hours ago via CoTweet

^^Conference/Clegg speech bounce^^

the mood at conference, where i am now, is oddly not as mutinous as i thought it would be. in a straw poll at a fringe event the other day, only ONE lib dem member was against the coalition.

the ripple of fantasy-land still-can't-believe-it astonishment every time an mp is introduced as an actual minister of state is hilarious

a liberal democrat is someone who only tells you what they think after they're elected

lmfao anyone? rhymes with lmfao

ok this

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/mar/10/fred-goodwin-superinjunction-banking

is probably the sole creditable thing any lib dem has done in power

Wankers

3.9% of voters are right behind them.

http://www.camdennewjournal.com/news/2011/sep/labour-celebrate-election-win-after-battle-greens

RESULT:
SALLY GIMSON (Labour) 1,178 (ELECTED)
ALEXIS ROWELL (Green) 947
ANTHONY DENYER (Conservative) 593
MARTIN HAY (Liberal Democrat) 111

Turnout: 34.26 %

Still 3.9% too many

even by ilx standards these libdems are risible human beings

― Once Were Moderators (DG), Monday, September 19, 2011 11:06 PM (Yesterday)

It's kind of amazing how brazen they're being in attempting to tickle the social democrat section of their party by talking tough on the Tories, energy companies, boardroom bonuses, anything that might convince the voters they're alright really. It's like they're in wilful denial of the enormous credibility gap there.

Yes I know all parties do that to an extent but this is even lamer than when Labour did it. It's like Chris Huhne pledging to "get tough" with privatised energy companies while simultanteously helping to wave through NHS privatisation, as if these things are completely unconnected.

I for one am looking forward to halving my energy expenditure by making it easier for cunts to trick pensioners into changing their gas company twice a week.

It's like you know when you go to the pub with work people and there's someone loudly and ostentatiously bitching about their boss and then they go right back to the office and start sucking up to them again? That's basically the LibDem conference.

This was the conference where there was supposed to be a danger of the outraged Lib Dem grassroots venting their fury that the parliamentary party are allowing the Tories to run riot but, guess what, it didn't happen because, deep down, the cunts are loving it. They get to hold the coats while the Bullingdon Boys stomp on few oiks' heads and every now again they'll say, "Leave him, he's had enough", but really they're getting off on it.

I think even the ones that genuinely hate it are sitting supine because of a misguided belief that This Is How Grown-Up Political Parties Are Supposed To Behave. Like if they piss and whine now then they're undermining the whole concept of PR or coalition government or anything else that they seem to care about more than anything else.

Yes, that's probably true

Fast losing faith in the idea of the Good Liberal Democrat though

Matt DC repeatedly OTM

Another reason they're not angrily rampaging - even though there's a ton of grassroots resentment against the leadership for fucking up their local rep so massively - is that they're y'know natural lib dems. Attracted to the "moderate". Instinctively against privatisation but talk about "giving it a chance" because it "might not be so bad".

Spent a couple of hrs today having coffee w/a lib dem activist of 20 years standing who HATES the tories, is on left of party, and even she reasoned to herself like that. There's not even a mood to replace clegg as leader.

Overall the conference felt even more like a NOC warm-up than usual. Lord German and Norman Lamb were particularly useless at the events I attended.

There's not even a mood to replace clegg as leader.

yeah this is crazy to me. i can sorta see the logic of him saying, i'll be here at the next election, but it's more like, three months after the next election, what is gonna be up with that then.

still going, still relevant

'nick clegg could do as well as lloyd george' says someone who looks a bit like phil mcnulty when he is asked if he wants to be lib dem leader

Oh for the innocent youth of this thread. Lembit Öpik for PM.

hey, Lloyd George split the Liberal party in two and rendered them unelectable for 80-odd years, i think Clegg's in with a shout of emulating him

i've just come back from the LD conference, even less inspiring than usual if that's even possible

also EVERY YEAR at EVERY PARTY CONFERENCE i have to hear people talk about how important it is to put financial education on the national curriculum and EVERYONE IN THE ROOM ALWAYS AGREES including the dimwit waffling MPs and IT NEVER HAPPENS AND WILL NEVER HAPPEN

are you trying to suggest we should destroy the future of great british success stories like wonga.com?

haha the last event i was at featured a lady from the blandly-named consumer finance association

they're doing a better job at sounding nice and convincing

the MPs tried to talk tough talk and the lady was just like whatever and totally calm

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/article/9382/lib-dem-leader-sends-birthday-best-wishes-to-sir-cyril