WORK: classic or dud?

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No, really. I'm an unemployed layabout posting compulsively to this forum to escape the mind-numbing boredom of my own life. I could go out and DO something, but I've not got the money. I could paint a picture or write a song or a novel, but I've got no inspiration cause nothing in life FUCKS ME OFF enough to make me want to create.

So if work is so bad, why is being unemployed even worse?

Seriously. Complain about your dayjobs on this thread. I've forgotten how bad mine was. Remind me of the crap that you have to put up with every day in the Rat Race.

masonic boom, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I can't take it anymore! I'm going out for a walk... I'm turning off the computer and the CD player and going OUT into the OUTSIDE WORLD!! I hear it's scary out there.

masonic boom, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I really like my day job (Student Union General Manager), especially in the summer when there are no students' around. I get to do exactly the same as you - ie post to this forum - and get paid for it, before popping down the bar I run and drinking there. It can be a bit annoying when doing things like Freshers' Events and when students are around in general, but I have a good niche here - everyone respects me and pretty much leaves me alone to shoulder responsibility. I also get load s of holiday.

If you don't like students (or people) though, or can't stand interuptions and stupid questions, then you would hate my job.

Pete, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Hmm. If I *had* a job to complain about I would. I could complain about not being able to get a job instead, but that seems to defeat the point of the thread. Of course, I'm not going to get a job unless I get out of this computer lab and start turning my high-quality research into low-grade slag that might actually get accepted by a publisher or a so-called scholarly journal...

alex thomson, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I finished college about a month ago, and I can already see why people work. No matter if you're going out every night/having fun (OK I'm not quite as much as that) it still gets a bit boring lazing about at home the rest of the time doesn't it? people have to work to ease the monotony of existence and meet new people. of course, my attempts to get a gap year job haven't quite started, but that's beside the point :)

Bill

Bill, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Like you can't go out every night if you have a job, and besides you'll have more fun doing it cos you'll have money. Sorry, this isn't really complaining at all, is it?

Ally, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Hmm, going out every night never stopped me getting to work on time. (Mind you on time is pretty much when I turn up so...)

Pete, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Kate, I don't think you need to ask me on this one, since you've seen how much I hate not work per se, but my job. And the effects it has on me.

Anyway, I spent five years training and studying to do my job, and even then I am still a trainee. I get paid a decent amount, but even then it barely covers the repayments on the student loans that got me here in the first place. Then there's my job. I often work 15 hour days, doing mind-numbing, uninteresting tasks without any feedback if I do anything right. If I do something wrong, however, I get treated extremely harshly, often to the point that personal attacks are made against me by my superiors. My job has led me to suffer anxiety attacks, depression, exhaustion and other health disorders. I also find that taking holiday is frowned upon, and I often find my social life and personal life completely destroyed by work and work commitments. I missed All Tomorrow's Parties thanks to an illness caused by stress, and I almost missed Belle and Sebastian.

In addition, I have to travel to and from work on a humilating excuse for public transport that is so overcrowded the conditions are sometimes worse than those endured by animals going to slaughter. Which, I guess is fitting.

I'm on a contract, too, which means I can't get out of my job until September 2002. So I'm trapped, and every day is a horrible struggle. I'd give anything to actually have a job I enjoy, or at least one I don't mind *that* much. Work if it's something you enjoy (like Strange Fruit for me) - classic. But if it destroys you, if it seems to tear your very soul from you, then it's an unmitigated dud.

Paul Strange, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Dayjobs - good only for filling yourself with hostility, useful for sublimation. Isn't not enjoying unemployment symptomatic of a certain lack of imagination?

tarden, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Dayjob - handy reminder of how much I hate phatic communication. "Gee it's 12 noon, time for lunch!" "Raining outside!" "Wow, time to go home now!" Every single goddamned motherfucking day.

tarden, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Okay, okay, I just came up with a complaint about work, my friend just says to me after we were talking about me catching a bit of a cold (which I have), she says all shouty like, "Well I guess you shouldn't have been sharing all that saliva then!" just as my boss walks out of his office. He just kind of shook his head, but why do people only say things like that in the office when the boss is coming round?

Okay, that wasn't a complaint either, I just really liked that quote.

Ally, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Good points - easier to get good credit rating, important nowadays if you want to so much as rent a video. Also funny watching people in their early 50s with three kids working in a tiny cubicle being ordered to do menial jobs by 20-yr-old assholes, imagining the lack of respect they get at home and knowing they'll probably be thrown on the scrapheap anyway without even a pension plan.

tarden, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

bizarrely, i quite enjoy my job, and i never thought i'd say that about work. i get to manage my own time, come in more or less when i want, and when i actually do work its always different and i get to learn stuff.

gareth, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Actually, here's how bad my job is, with something that happened to me today.

Now, I've been having some major upheavals in my life lately, and trying to keep up with work at the same time. I haven't taken time off, whilst work has got busier and busier, and whilst working upwards of 60-70 hours a week I was trying to deal with some major personal issues.

My work suffered regardless, because I was trying to do too much. I got a lot of flak from my bosses, who refused to take into account what I was going through, and continually wound me up. Then, eventually, it just became too much. I took about 90 painkillers and went to bed. I didn't expect to wake up the next day but instead just got very sick indeed and was hospitalised briefly. I went back to work as if nothing had happened, but recently approached my doctor (which is also my company's doctor) and explained what had happened, that I'd been under too much stress.

Anyway, the doctor approached personnel and told them what had happened. They then told my boss. So today I got into trouble for making a major mess-up simply through not having enough time to do everything at once last week. My boss came into the office and reminded me how useless I was, and then presented me with three bottles of paracetamol and told me to 'do the job properly next time'. A few comments were made about some other aspects of my life too, which are best not repeated. So again, it's not work, it's my job. They know I'm trapped, and they're going to see how much it takes to destroy me.

Paul Strange, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Jesus Paul, that's a horrible story. These people really are bastards. One of my friends at uni was in a similar situation at one point. The comment he got from his tutor when he went in and explained his absence (hospital with major liver damage) was 'Oh - there was a rumour going round the department. I thought it might be you.' End of conversation.

alex thomson, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Shit. Just don't turn up and if they sue you bring on the doctor and counter-sue. I'll represent, I've seen Ally McBeal. That's so not on. Come and get a job over here with me in the government! I do being a Personal Secretary, and you'd probably be better than Current Boss. Actually, make that a defintely. How's your Common Agricultural Policy knowledge?

Except current boss is away in FURRIN LANDS and I get his internet access! JOY. Boss being away = CLASSIC. Boss being present = DUD.

sarah, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Paul, isn't there ANY other job around that you can do? Couldn't you sue them for harrassment and abuse?

Ally, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I've looked into leaving, and I can't break the contract. That's what frustrates me so much, that I'm trapped and they all know this. Basically, if I break my contract I have to repay a large sum of money that went towards part of my training fees, which is too big for me to afford. But hey, only 14 months to go! :)

Paul Strange, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Paul, that really is a terrible story. You should give us your boss's name, we could all come round and kick his ass!

I don't have anything to complain about, especially after that story. Anyone who has as much time as I do to post to ile/m can't have it very rough.

Nicole, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

No one said quit. They said stop working so hard, and force them to fire you. Come on, you're GOOD at being passive aggressive in the rest of your life, what is stopping you from being passive aggressive at work?

masonic boom, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Paul: you can write. Which means you have a power they do NOT have. This story should be told, complete with names. Not necessarily here — tho why not? What can they do? Sack you? That's what you want. Sue you? But the story is true.

mark s, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Okay everyone, whip round for Paul! What if you make them sack you - ie instead of going in and being treated like shit, you eat fried egg butties in bed instead? I guess you've looked at that already. If you'd like, I will throw eggs at your bosses head. I've been cultivating some rotten ones for the Spearmint show, but maybe your bosses are a better case.

Your story DOES make me feel better about having no huge prospects. No BIG PAYOLA but also not so much SHITE. But honestly, it seems to me you should do whatever it takes to get out of such a disgustingly destructive job.

sarah, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I realized the summer of freshman year (I still have one more to go, by the way...) while working a 9-5 in midtown that the difference between school and work is that when you go home from work, work stays at the office. I don't go home worrying about what projects I'm workiing on tomorrow, what will be due, what needs to be done. I worry about that at the office. It's my job. Everything else is Jimmy time.

JM, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

The scariest thing of all is that my experiences are quite common in the field in which I work. I know of so many people going through the same thing, or worse, as if it's a major hazing ritual. No-one thinks twice about it, because it's essentially a good job on the face of things. It really angers me. Most of all because of the effect it has on not just me, but so many people around me as well.

But there are plenty of other things I can do: I just have to wait until my contract ends and then they won't see me for dust around here.

Paul Strange, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

My day job of "model coordinator" is not fulfilling in the slightest but I am left alone much of the day as evidenced by my frequent posts. The price I pay for this relative freedom is the unpredictable sudden attacks of emotionally unstable models and proffessors. I shall soon leave though. Off to Kansas City, and another day job.

Mike Hanle y, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Jesus, Paul. I knew it was bad, but I didn't realise it was that bad. I assume that there's a getting sacked due to unreasonable behaviour == you have to pay off fees clause in your contract as well, so that staying in bed eating egg butties won't work. Still, it might be worth following Mark S's advice. I would have thought they'd have a hard time suing you given that it's all true.

Richard Tunnicliffe, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Hmm. I can buy the extended initiation ritual thing, but it doesn't make it any better. What most angers me about my own situation is that after eight years of training, I'm expected to tacitly agree to work for a pittance for another year at least, before I can move onto a temporary contract for a decent wage. If I don't wish to submit myself to this procedure, there are plenty of other post-doctoral candidates who will. But it's not as if there's anything that great about working in UK HE after the ritual abjection of getting in; and from what you're saying it sounds like the same can be said of your field.

I do like your suggestion that it's not work per se that sucks, but particular jobs. Personally I'm much happier in a routine than left to my own devices, so I'm wary of any kind of self-employment / freelance deal. Work beats not work in my book; but I can't say I know anyone fortunate enough to be in a position to choose.

alex thomson, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

If they sack me, they have to sue me to get the fees - they're not immediately entitled to them. But if I am fired it goes on my record, and I can't get a reference, and there's a horrible danger that the years and money I put into getting my education (which is very narrow) could be wasted. Plus there's the pressure from my family not to mess this up. It's a nightmare. The thing is, what do I do? Do I ride it out and hope I'll be okay, or is there a real danger that I'm going to flip out one day and lose it? I have to remember that I *chose* this career, too. I should have been ready for what gets thrown at me.

Paul Strange, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I really am interested in what you all think, and what you have to say about the situation. Cause clearly, Paul and I have been discussing this for months now. He doesn't ever seem to listen to the suggestions that I make, so I'm curious as to whether it's me being a nagging harpie, or whether you all say the same things.

masonic boom, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Yep, there are such things as industrial tribunals and stuff. I take it your company does not have Investors In People status. When I worked for MTV they were like this with me (to a much lesser level) as they were all treated like shit when they were in the equivalent entry level job. I cared for about two weeks and felt really stressed because I believed that was what I wanted to do career-wise. And then I snapped. I gave them about two months of shoddy work and told them to go fuck themselves. Its never quite as liberating as you think it will be.

Since then gone off the idea of careers and am just bouncing around - currently doing work I rather enjoy.

I take it there are no Unions in your lne of work then, because we have just got a manager here seriously reprimanded for something much less serious than that. Do a crazy on them - put the fear of death and murder into them, turn the tables. Look at the bullying thread for some hints and good luck.

Pete, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I'm interested too. It really seems like there's no satisfactory way out of the situation at the moment, which is arguably the worst aspect of it all.

Paul Strange, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Oh, and there are no unions. Only the Law Society. So now you all know what I do, too! The Law Society seems to protect firms but not individuals, btw.

Paul Strange, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

No-one should have this stuff thrown at them though, you don't deserve it and it's making you exceedingly miserable. I just have secretarial connections in your kind of business and they say the atmosphere can generally be frentic and quite nasty, but they've never had anything quite what like you're describing or heard of anything similar. I know a thing or two about family pressure as well - that's one of the most horrible things to overcome. But at the end of the day your family will not want you to suffer in the way you have been doing - no way at all. You must have gone pretty far to get where you are now and they'll know that. And other employers will know that too. Have you looked discretly at other places, seeing what they'd offer and looking at their environments? A job like yours will always have stressful moments but what you're telling is beyond the pale.

sarah, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Well, as your company doctor already knows about your health problems why not go on stress related sick leave indefinitely until your contract is up? I don't mean to trivialise your genuine health problems by suggesting you fake them but the situation sounds so fucking awful that desperate measures are called for.

Emma, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I got stress leave last week, for two days. But I was forced to take it as holiday. There's no way they'd give me stress leave for the rest of my contract, I imagine. That's what's annoying. Any other situation I'd use the fact I'm a lawyer to outsmart and outwit the people against me. But it's a losing battle doing that here. I should also note that I used to have a different boss, and she was lovely. I was a completely different human being then too, as Kate will testify.

Paul Strange, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

It's like some kind of sick joke -- 'what happens when lawyers fuck each other up.' For what it's worth, I agree with Sarah about the family pressure thing. I don't think you should beat yourself up over having chosen the job in the first place. No-one would choose such a job if they knew that this was going to be what it was like. If you feel you're throwing over the whole career if you break your contract that must make it harder, but if you think it's worth pursuing as a career, you must be able to take your experience and skills to an employer that won't attempt to knob up your life as a whole. Surely there's someone out there (forgive my naivety) who would take you on for who and what you are, and are prepared to, in effect, buy you out of your current slavery. Even changing overlords might be act as some kind of positive stimulus. If on the other hand, you've had it with the whole industry, you are presumably a resourceful bloke to have for there in the first place and can take those skills elsewhere. Even if you're still paying these arseholes back for years to come.

Following Emma's lead in considering all possibilities, can't you leave and then threaten them with as much mud-slinging and legal stuff (Court of Human Rights etc. whatever it takes) when they demand the money back. Surely there must be something in your contract about them treating you within reasonable limits. If not, just blackmail them and take the story to the papers?

alex thomson, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Classic! If it wasn't for work there would be too much playtime. And, when everything's play, it becomes hard to discern between "fun" and "not fun". People without jobs usually end up killing people.

Nude Spock, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Paul, about choosing a career. You don't know what it is going to be like until you are in there, and who says you cannot change your mind. I know it seems difficult I've done it, despite not being anywhere near as deep as you are. The world of work certainly looks at careers a lot differently to how they did 20 years ago. I like Emma's idea a lot and also it would probably be worth reporting to personel and your doctor the wholly inappropriate use of personal and PRIVATE (ie Data Protection Act safeguarded which they have obviously broken) information.

Pete, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

From an un professional point of view I think you have clear case to take to tribunal for harrassment. I think the incident today is enough but it soundslike there is a great deal more history of this. However I can see that taking on a firm of lawyers is going to be very very hard especially when as you say the law society is more about the legal profession than individuals

I really don't think that hacking at this for another 14 months is going to do you any good at all, and what about the next poor sod who gets your position when you're gone. It sounds like you are being treated completely unacceptably and you shouldn't have to put up with this. How big is your firm if its a big firm then could you go through an internal complaints, talk to someone in another department?

Ed, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Not a single thing wrong with my regular job. My immediate coworkers are a blast, my boss a great guy, the hours are yer typical 8 to 5 with an hour off for lunch, I have a huge corner office space all to myself, speakers for listening to music all day and time to kill galore. I have to invent work to do at many times, which is why I review CDs for the AMG when officially clocked in. Yay me! I love state government bureaucracy.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Paul, surely the Doctor broke confidence, so separately from your work problem, go to whoever runs your medical practice and make a formal complaint. Do it! And go straight to CAB (Citizens Advice) to find out where you stand.

It must be tempting to put up with all this shite because of the whopping salary you'll probably earn in a few years being an experienced legal man.

I would LOVE Pete's job, I was an Ents Manager for a year and it was the best life ever. Peter, dya need an assistant?

chris, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Thts why i love school. 8 months of working . 8 months of fucking about.

anthony, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Thts why i love school. 8 months of working . 4 months of fucking about.

anthony, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Chris, we have just advertised for an assistant but its part time and the pay is shit (hoping for a postgraduate student really). But you would not want to work for me (see the Passive/Aggressive thread) and anyway I am wary of anyone for fancies turning into a woman and shagging a dolphin. Especially if they write a story about it and leave it in strange pubs....

Pete, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I suspect you may fall foul of your organisation's equal ops policy there, Pete, but I'm not a lawyer. Thankfully.

Tim, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Chris- the Dr didn't break confidence. Paul asked the Dr to contact his department and explain to them why it was so critical he get a day off. (they then didn't send Paul home until 4pm. Paul then went to Oxford to go drinking... but neither of those are relevant).

Pete- you should be lucky to have Chris working for you. He is a source of endless entertainment.

masonic boom, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Play the game, Paul! Standing up for yourself is the best start. Learn to be oblivious to [unwarranted] criticism, ie. don't take it personally (this requires growing a shell; not done overnight). Remember, it's seldom about you even when they're screaming at you. I've had bosses threaten beatings and death (not "for real", just them being pricks). Solution: tell them to fuck off in no uncertain terms and they will. Stay meek, and they'll stay on you. Tell your boss he's full of shit and he'll respect you, start treating you as a peer. Don't do this and you'll always be Mr Whipping Boy, frustrations of which will seep out in yr non-work life, fucking that up too. It's wank, but that's how territory-pissing corporate world often works. (Apologies if I'm off target.)

AP, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Kate's right. The only way to get time off was to have the doctor explain the situation. Anyway, the key problem with going to court and trying to sue my firm, or indeed going to a tribunal, is the fact that it costs money, and it means time off work. In the meantime I have to cover my usual bills (including the damn student and law school loan repayments... arrgghh!), make sure I don't lose my flat, and so on. Same goes for taking extended leave without pay. I have no doubt that what they are doing breaches the UK Human Rights Act, only recently passed, but without the resources to challenge this (and I'm not eligible for legal aid, nor am I sufficiently trained to represent myself) there's a limited amount I can do. I've already complained to personnel, too, but even then they can't really think of a way around the problem. Sadly my boss knows my financial position all too well, and knows I can't even afford a week without pay. Talk about a wage slave, huh?

Paul Strange, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Sorry, Kate, I didn't mean to misinterpret. Far less helpful than I thought I was being.

chris, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

This is why i hate working. This is why i think i will let David work and i will always be in school. I never know how to process other peoples pain. I am really sorry Paul. I could pray for you ,add you to my lsit. would that help. If there is anything else do tell me.

anthony, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Hmmm... my auto name thing went a bit awry there...

Paul Strange, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Paul, I think you should try and grin and bear for it a while...Just do your job to a certain level (that you are satisfied with), they probably wouldn't sack you (it's messy, costs money, you need written warnings first etc.), they have a vested interest in keeping you as they have paid for your training...but don't feel that you owe them anything. It's probably bullshit about them suing you, again it'd cost them more than it's worth. Every second you are not there try and forget about your job. I know this kind of advice is easy to give...and I'm not experiencing your situation, but I wouldn't let it get to me to the point where it was affecting my health and happiness! Get people on your side, what are your co-workers like?...The advice about logging stuff and talking to HR is very good. It may be the corporate culture to treat newer staff like shit, but it is unacceptable. I don't know you, but I've got friends who've had similar experiences, and so I hope you come out of this stronger! Just keep calm and stay focused.

james e l, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Now that I actually had a chance to read this thread properly (my flippant if accurate post back there was done on the fly), I'm not so much horrified as bemused. I'm not in your shoes, Paul, but I have to say that my gut feeling is that Kate has a very valid point. Why let your psychic defenses down? After all, the ultimate question is whether or not being treated like crap is in part of your contract. As it clearly sounds like that is *not* the case, hold the fuckers to the letter of the law while also noting that you fail to see the connection between such treatment and worker productivity -- if anything, it is the opposite.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I see your point, James, but my feeling is this -- people are not hired to be abused. They are hired to provide their skills to their place of employment and help said locale succeed. Grinning and bearing it means nothing gets done, and if nobody says anything, it'll never stop. An obvious point, surely?

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Yeah Ned I agree with you, the grin and bear it is just a temporary thing to do whilst really working on the problem, just to clarify.

james e l, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Round here you can tell when someone's quitting because they go on extended medical leave, go to the dentist and have complete physicals -- as well as use all their paide vacation days. The come back for three hours, clean their shit and go. It's really beautiful.

JM, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I think the key is not letting it get to me. It's really hard, since the job takes up so much time and energy, but it's worth a go. And there's nothing in my contract stating I can be abused, which is important. What I find amusing is that my performance drops significantly when I'm treated like shit. The less I care about the job, the more likely I am to do a half-assed job.

I have a summer student today, so no-one will really touch me. But I plan to tell her what really happens here...

Incidentally, anyone know any places looking for a lawyer/promoter who'd probably be better in an executive position???

Paul Strange, Wednesday, 11 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Oh, Paul. This sounds awful. I wish I'd got to this thread earlier...

Hey, Americans posting on this thread: the employment laws here are not quite so evolved; that's basically why those in power in the UK are so iffy about joining Europe 4 Real, because their employees' human rights provisions would be much better. Paul's basically an apprentice and the culture he works in is pretty feudal. Am I imagining or is the office full of homosocial ex-public schoolboys who didn't ever have to worry about loans, etc?

Talk to the doctor the next time you see him about how he conveys information to your boss. You expect a more professional standard, obviously, and a bit of discretion under the circumstances.

My instinct is persevere, don't let this guy win. And yeah, they all went through that hazing bullshit but there is a thing called evolution and as excuses go, perpetuating a cycle of abuse isn't on.

Mark's Expose! solution also sounds promising and will make you feel better. Between us we probably know a few commissioning editors who would be interested. If you come to Picnic In The Sky (see: meet-up thread), which I hope you and Kate will, we can draw out plans.

suzy, Wednesday, 11 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

No, you're right. I'm very much in a public schoolboy old boy network sort of place. Which is why it was an achievement to actually get here in the first place. What a pain...

I should be at the meet-up, though I have to dash off for Strange Fruit at about 3pm (soundchecks). We could all go to my office and graffiti it... ;)

Paul Strange, Wednesday, 11 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Paul, my dad's a solicitor and I thought his experiences were bad...extremely long working hours, stressful commuting, tensions at work between two different camps -some threatening to leave because they were money-grabbing bastards. He became managing partner and then abolished the job cause it was so crap...the last one had to have a heart bypass then most of the partners threw him out with barely any money in compensation. But your position is shit, pure dog poo. Sell it to a paper, really, close the bastards down.

Bill

Bill, Wednesday, 11 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

To be fair Suzy, with regard to European Working Laws the UK is pretty much signed up to all of them (especially the working time directive - if you are working more than 48 hours a week we want to know why). However most of said laws cover the lower end of the scale - ie equalization of rights for part time staff and temporary staff vis a vis holiday and so on. The UK is a lot better than the States with regard to holiday provision. (Just trying to work out stakeholder pensions and holiday entitlement for peole who work 12 hours a week has been driving me nuts the last month or so).

In areas that Paul is talking about employment law is rarely invoked in any country as the fear of losing ones job and being in effect blacklisted is huge. The fear may well be greater than the reality - but its the fear that keeps us from doing most stuff anyway.

Pete, Wednesday, 11 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

But we're a long way from being France. 5 weeks basic paid leave and every hour you work above a 35 hour week adds an extra hour to paid holiday entitlement. So if you work a 40 hour week every 7 weeks you get an extra week of paid leave.

Ed, Wednesday, 11 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Five weeks paid leave. Pah that's nothing. I get more than that - plus Christmas and Bank Holidays.

Pete, Wednesday, 11 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I love being unemployed. Every day's a holiday. Aaaaah...

DG, Wednesday, 11 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Unemployment might soon be coming my way. 3/4 of my department got laid off today. I was in the lucky quarter, but I still spent the day down the pub with the rest.

Richard Tunnicliffe, Wednesday, 11 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Ugh. You're in IT, aren't you? That industry is being hit the hardest at the moment. Lots of people I know in kooky situations. No fun. I wish you the best of luck with it all!

masonic boom, Wednesday, 11 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

At a market research thingy yesterday it transpired that most participants work very hard at their jobs in order to end up not having to work. Pah! I've beaten them all to it! I live the dream!

DG, Wednesday, 11 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I have a job interview today. David thinks i should be gainfully employed .

anthony, Wednesday, 11 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

i'm in IT as well, i'm kind of worried about what will happen, but, at the same time i think, "whats the worse that could happen". living la dss life with DG. i can live with that.

gareth, Thursday, 12 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

How do I get on unemployment anyway? Or am I inelligible because I actually technically quit? Or would it be morally wrong for a trustafarian like me to actually go on unemployment?

masonic boom, Thursday, 12 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

It's not about private incomes, it's about public out-go. You paid your taxes like everyone else!

suzy, Thursday, 12 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

not sure, been employed for a while now. dossing on the dole can be cool. i like the fact that some of my taxes go towards people dossing about having a laugh. i was on the dole for a year once, and people said "i pay my taxes blah blah for you to piss it up the wall, you'll think different when you get a job". well, i've been working for a while now, and my opinion hasn't changed. this ones for you DG! i'm annoyed that my taxes go towards bombs and shit though

gareth, Thursday, 12 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I probably need one of those national insurance numbers thingeys to go on the dole, don't I? Drat! Curses, foiled again!

masonic boom, Thursday, 12 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

You're a British Citizen aren't you? In which case you just send off for your NI number from the Inland Revenue. I can give you details if you want. Even if you don't get the dole you'll be able to claim Income Suppose (a paltry amount) and potentially Housing and Council Tax Benefits.

Also useful to stop getting stung big time by the taxman when the Lollies make it big.

Pete, Thursday, 12 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I am a British citizen, I just never bothered to get a NI number because, well, I started working about a week after I stepped off the boat (OK, plane) and never had the time. Until now, when I'm unemployed. How do I get one? Can I do it online? Or do I have to send off with copies of my birth certificate and passport and all that rot?

masonic boom, Thursday, 12 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Hey, I pay tax, I smoke enough. Even though it's the government's money in the first place. Hee hee!

DG, Thursday, 12 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

DG, you rule. (did ya get my tape yet, btw?)

gareth, Thursday, 12 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

How've you been getting paid and taxed without an NI number? Look at your last payslip, surely it's there somewhere?

chris, Thursday, 12 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

i believe you can give a wrong NI number, and that way get paid and get dole at same time.

gareth, Thursday, 12 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

They made up a fake NI number from my birthdate. I've been using it for 2 years. Every time the accountant came and bugged me about getting a real one, I'd make his printer crash and he'd forget all about pestering me for my personal details.

masonic boom, Thursday, 12 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Yes Mr.Lee, I got your tape this very morning, but I don't have a tape player handy so I haven't heard it yet. Thank you very much.

DG, Thursday, 12 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

As of monday I have a new office boss: hence tumbling down the stats like fly in freefall. I had my first *proper* meeting today: she's OK (except that I'm convinced I've met her before, and can't tink where or how...)" but my editor may have taken against her, so tiresome nightmares ahead. I unloaded a ton of malicious gossip abt foax in the Other Building, who I predict she will beat war with v.soon.

mark s, Thursday, 12 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

one year passes...
Work is crazy. I had a meeting with my boss last week in hopes of telling him I am a bit overworked. Instead, he gave me a bunch more work and said that I'll just have to get over it. My bf says that if you don't like your job, you should quit. But I don't think it's that easy. Plus, there are lots of times I do like it.

Thus, I haven't been posting as much lately. :( I miss ILX already. I feel like ILX has already forgotten about me in like 2 days b/c no one cares about what kind of fish I can get for my desk.
I am pathetic. I need companionship.

In the meantime, I think I'll get some coffee.

Sarah McLusky (coco), Monday, 24 February 2003 15:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

we haven't forgotten! oh no we have not!!!

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 24 February 2003 15:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

Since this thread has been revived, I've been reading some of Paul's posts and I'm utterly shocked at the working conditions he's had to go through. Was there a happy ending at all? Paul, if you're still reading these threads, I hope life is treating you better now.

Ben Mott (Ben Mott), Monday, 24 February 2003 19:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

Hmmm... I just read them too. Should I try to desuade my sister from continuing on with law school? Is it that bad everywhere?

Sarah McLUsky (coco), Monday, 24 February 2003 19:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

Heh. Reading all these comments and thinking about what has changed personal interactionwise since then is bemusing.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 24 February 2003 19:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

never work

Mary (Mary), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 09:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

Law firms are nearly all bad. There are other, better things to do with a law degree.

Colin Meeder (Mert), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 10:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

I just got turned down for some unpaid work experience. Admittedly it was in the sexy meeeja (publishing) and thus highly competed-for, but really! Having an actual _interview_ for something that yr not going to be paid for, then being told that you didn’t get the op because there was someone more ENTHUSIASTIC up for it. Why does being as honest and polite as possible in interviews not work at all (for me and anyone else?), yet seemingly being randomly chirpy as hell does? Having genuinely been excited about the possibility of getting this thing, I’m a bit depressed now, seriously. Should probably start working on my rabid go-getter impression for the next time, and the necessity for this is even more annoying the more I think about it. Also goes for cover letters – the more BS you cram in, the more likely you are to have your CV read at all. WHY?

Liz :x (Liz :x), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 14:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

Won't someone please tell me? Well bloody sod yer then.

Liz :x (Liz :x), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 15:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

two years pass...
Dud.

you better believe it (you better believe it), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 14:32 (nineteen years ago) link

two years pass...

don't

want

to

do

anything

Surmounter, Friday, 14 March 2008 17:31 (sixteen years ago) link

no rly.

Surmounter, Tuesday, 18 March 2008 14:32 (sixteen years ago) link

Classic. Having unemployed within the last year, I can say that a) it sucks and b) you feel pretty good at the end of a good day of work.

B.L.A.M., Tuesday, 18 March 2008 14:36 (sixteen years ago) link

what do u do?

Surmounter, Tuesday, 18 March 2008 14:37 (sixteen years ago) link

Work, when you actually have something to do, to keep you occupied and focused all day, is classic.

Right now, I am trapped in some kind of nightmare situation where I have to be in an office situation for 8 hours a day, with little to do and nothing to occupy the rest of the time.

But, no matter how bad it is, it is still not as bad as being trapped in that situation with that psychopath above. Even when it is not possible to go back through the internet and yell at your past self GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT NOW!!!! at least you can look back at the situation you were in, and think, even though it is bad now, it is not as bad as it was then.

Masonic Boom, Tuesday, 18 March 2008 14:45 (sixteen years ago) link

^^^yeah, that's true, psychopaths should be avoided at all costs, agreed.

Mr. Que, Tuesday, 18 March 2008 14:46 (sixteen years ago) link

surmounter seconded.

or at least i don't want to do anything that i've been doing for the last nine fucking years.

ledge, Tuesday, 18 March 2008 14:54 (sixteen years ago) link

three months pass...

SOMEONE EMPLOY ME PLZ

Just got offed, Friday, 4 July 2008 16:36 (sixteen years ago) link


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