Ken Bigley RIP

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http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6453774

Meursault (Meursault), Friday, 8 October 2004 13:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Horrible news. I actually believed he was going to be released after all this time. The footage of his mother pledaing for his release on the news a week or so ago touched me more than anything I've seen for a long time.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 8 October 2004 13:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Sad news, though somewhat inevitable given the "no negotiation with terrorists" stance taken by the governments involved.

Billy Connolly can go back to talking about jobbies now.

Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 8 October 2004 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)

This is the first time this has happened to a British hostage since 9/11, unless I'm mistaken. I'm anticipating a massive outpouring of anger over this one, Blair especially is going to be pilloried.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 8 October 2004 13:41 (twenty-one years ago)

What terrible news. I'm wondering if this "no negotiating with terrorists" thing is something of an anglo-saxon/latin divide. The Italians paid $1 million for the release of those two aid workers. No doubt the French have been trying to line up a similar deal for their journalist hostages. The French pay lip service to the "no negotiating" line" but they always do anyway.

Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Friday, 8 October 2004 13:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm shocked at myself, I just emailed my friend to inform her and the first amail title that popped into my head was "Oh no, they've killed Kenny"

Rumpy Pumpkin (rumpypumpkin), Friday, 8 October 2004 13:57 (twenty-one years ago)

The French pay lip service to the "no negotiating" line" but they always do anyway.

so do the Anglo Saxons, viz. Iran-Contra.

DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 8 October 2004 14:04 (twenty-one years ago)

it looks like people/the media are really going to use it against Blair - but does that mean they are suggesting negotiation would've been acceptable nay the right choice?

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 8 October 2004 14:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Rock. Hard place.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 8 October 2004 14:34 (twenty-one years ago)

i think it's the way Blair almost seemed to relish his "tough stance". Unpleasant news.

Matt (Matt), Friday, 8 October 2004 14:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I dunno, the phone poll on Richard & Judy the other night had 78% of their viewers NOT in favour of negotiating with the hostage takers if it meant he would be released.

Madchen (Madchen), Friday, 8 October 2004 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)

But Blair, and Major before him, negotiated with the IRA and progress has been made. Yes, this is a different scenario, but it makes a mockery of his hardline stance. How can he still stay in his job? He has no integrity whatsoever.

Stew S (stew s), Friday, 8 October 2004 14:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I wonder what the Iraq weighting is standing at these days? Through the roof, I should imagine.

Matt (Matt), Friday, 8 October 2004 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Billy Connolly ought to be happy - he's got his wish.

I hope he rots in hell.

Marcello Carlin, Friday, 8 October 2004 14:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Marcello,

Explain.

Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 8 October 2004 15:02 (twenty-one years ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/3717462.stm

JimD (JimD), Friday, 8 October 2004 15:16 (twenty-one years ago)

it's awful to think Islamophobia may be the only reason negotiation is not deemed appropriate - and you could argue successfully that threatening to behead a British citizen is by no means as bad as bombing the City Of London, Brighton etc. - tho things seem different now, hmmmmmmm

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 8 October 2004 15:19 (twenty-one years ago)

why is billy connelly still around?

kyle (akmonday), Friday, 8 October 2004 15:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I used to like Connoly but those jokes are just mean.

Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 8 October 2004 15:28 (twenty-one years ago)

that's totally ridiculous and out of line. I can't believe that.

Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 8 October 2004 15:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I was thinking about this in the shower this morning. For the soldiers and contractors in Iraq, couldn't they implant some kind of homing device that GPS could detect?

Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 8 October 2004 15:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I have somehow avoided seeing any video footage of Ken Bigley, or ever reading about it much. So his death has not touched me any more than the thousands of other lives that have been lost in Iraq, or anywhere else for that matter.

I know it's a bit more complex in this case, but as a you should never ever give into hostage takers' demands. Use diplomacy behind the scenes, by all means, but actaully caving into demands just ends up with more lives lost.

Alba (Alba), Friday, 8 October 2004 15:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Michael - some Mexican politicians have started having homing devices implanted, in case of hostage taking. The problem with it is, it enourages them to cut it out of you, which isn't much fun.

Alba (Alba), Friday, 8 October 2004 15:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Computer-chip implants keep track of Mexican prosecutors

Alba (Alba), Friday, 8 October 2004 15:40 (twenty-one years ago)

This is sad. And I've never liked Connolly, so forget him.

B.A.R.M.S. (Barima), Friday, 8 October 2004 15:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I never liked him before either, but what a cretin.

Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Friday, 8 October 2004 16:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Maybe Dr Pamela could offer some counselling as a means of apologizing to the family.

Then again maybe not.

Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Friday, 8 October 2004 16:32 (twenty-one years ago)

SINS OF HUMOUR

Billy Connolly sparked outrage when he joked about Ken Bigley, the hostage since murdered in Iraq, during his stand-up act. But couldn't it be argued that a real comedian has to take risks to be a radical critic of society, a wise man as well as a wise guy?

By Stewart Lee

During the Edinburgh Fringe Festival a few years ago, a cab driver asked me who my favourite stand-ups were. I mentioned Billy Connolly among the usual international top 10. The cab driver explained that he hated Billy Connolly because he was ''too English''. I didn't know what this meant exactly. Was it perhaps that Connolly had given money away to charity, rarely ate shortbread, and was no longer an alcoholic? Whatever, I understood being ''too English'' was not a good thing. Nevertheless, ''too English'' or not, Connolly remains one of my favourite comics, though as a stand-up comedian myself, and also as the son of a Scottish man I have never met, perhaps I see in Connolly some kind of idealised father figure, and would forgive him anything. Either way, even in the light of recent events, we Scots should be proud of Connolly and rally around him in his hour of need.
If the tabloids are to be believed, in the past week Connolly has committed an even worse crime than being ''too English''. Two inopportune comments about the Iraq hostage Ken Bigley have incurred the wrath of both his audience and a far more important group, namely journalists and opinion-formers who weren't actually at the Hammersmith Apollo gig where the outrage occurred. The assumed funniness or non-funniness of Connolly's comments is, of course, further complicated by the subsequent execution of Ken Bigley himself, adding an especially bleak coda to a previously not especially significant story that would perhaps otherwise have blown over.
Remember, it is not Billy Connolly's fault that Ken Bigley is dead. Don't make the Big Yin the receptacle for your misplaced anger. Given that we went into Iraq in defiance of UN regulations, international opinion and common sense, to transfer blame to a stand-up comedian while Blair and Bush remain in power, even when the WMD excuse has been entirely discredited and the subsequent liberation of Iraq so terribly mismanaged, is patently absurd. When writing comedy about real events, whether serious or trivial, there is an inherent risk of those same events overtaking you.
In 1999, my one-time double-act partner Richard Herring and I filmed a dozen sketches for BBC2 in which Rod Hull kept suffering fatal accidents due to having a false arm permanently wrapped around his Emu puppet. Three days before the first one was due to be broadcast, Rod Hull fell off a roof while adjusting a TV aerial and died. Luckily we had time to re-edit the show to avoid sullying the memory of a comedian we both greatly admired, and looking like we were chasing an adolescent notion of deliberate bad taste, but it was a close thing. Admittedly, Ken Bigley's beheading is more significant than Rod Hull's sudden and unexpected expiry, but it is important not to judge Connolly's comments in the light of Friday's news. Before pontificating on the rights and wrongs of what Connolly may or may not have said, let's remember what a special comedy case Scotland's best stand-up comedian actually
is.
Many comedians feign spontaneity. The actor, comedian and transvestite Eddie Izzard is a master of it, and one cannot help but be impressed by the way he makes tried and tested material sound as if it had literally just occurred to him. Personally, I like prepared material and have a huge admiration for the beautifully constructed routines of Victoria Wood, Reginald D Hunter or Glasgow's own Arnold Brown. But I also love seeing comics caught in the actual act of creation, and Connolly is one of a very small sub-section of stand-ups, including Ross Noble and Johnny Vegas, who will actually go on stage with no specific idea of what they are about to do. I doubt any of the above even owns a pencil, let alone a word processor. But this often ill-prepared spontaneity is both Connolly's major strength, in that you genuinely feel caught in a once-in-a-lifetime experience when watching him,
and his major weakness, in that his stand-up shows are all far too long, lack any shape or structure and, as with the Ken Bigley lines, sometimes charge headlong into complex areas that might have required more preparation.
Apparently the Bigley material was a bit Connolly had been toying with on previous nights during his London run. Whenever I am working up a new routine, especially if it involves controversial subjects, I try it out in small venues, within the context of new-material nights. I have a piece at the moment wherein I hold the crisp advertiser and footballer Gary Lineker accountable for the deaths of hundreds of obese children, and chased the idea around from many directions before it settled into an acceptable shape that drew disgust and laughs in equal measure, rather than just appalling everyone. But as a relative unknown with a sustainable and small cult following, I have the luxury of anonymity denied to Billy Connolly. Nothing I say will make the news. Nevertheless, I don't believe that the literally thousands of fabulous hours of stand-up that Connolly has generated out of thin air
are compromised or undermined by this one apparent error. And, arguably, the Bigley lines were not an error at all, but actually an essential part of what comedy is for.
There are jokes to be made about the Ken Bigley situation. The sickest, stupidest and most inexcusable ones are already being made by you, the public, privately, to each other, drunk in bars or via e-mails at work, while you simultaneously maintain a high moral tone in judging a professional comic's attempt to cover the same ground in a more intelligent and responsible fashion. And you know it. Cast the first stone, I dare you.

The best Ken Bigley jokes, like Chris Morris's Brass Eye paedophilia special, tell us something about our own hypocrisy and that of the newsgathering services we put our trust in. I believe that Connolly's lines, as reported in the press, allude to both these areas. In opining, ''Perhaps I shouldn't be saying this ... aren't you the same as me, don't you wish they would just get on with it?'', Connolly is referencing our inability to stick with a story, and the media's self-sustaining interest in spinning one out. Afghanistan is still a wreck, but we rarely see it reported any more. It's old, boring news. And global tragedies that unfold over years, rather than days, suffer a lack of public interest that aid-workers and fundraisers identify with the phrase ''compassion fatigue''. The line, ''What is it with him and that young Asian wife?'', I believe, deliberately addresses the fact that
whenever we see an elderly British businessman on TV with a young Asian woman it's usually in the context of a story about mail-order brides. This isn't to suggest that the Bigleys' marriage itself was anything but loving and genuine, but at least let us admit that an image our inherent racist suppositions have made us suspicious of is currently being represented to us as the emotive, human-interest angle in a bigger story.
Of course, Bigley's family, Connolly's audience and the press have every right to be upset by these lines, but Connolly has every right to say them. I directed Richard Thomas's Olivier Award-winning blasphemy musical Jerry Springer The Opera, which was performed at the Edinburgh Fringe in 2002. At the moment, Las Vegas hotels want to stage it but are caught in an unprecedented legal loop. After Linda Ronstadt criticised the Bush administration on stage in Vegas earlier this year, to some audience disapproval, casino owners are seeking to indemnify themselves against showcasing acts their customers may be offended by. Is this reactionary American cowardice a mood you want the UK to be engulfed by? Inevitably, challenging work won't get shown. There at least appears to be some righteous moral anger behind Connolly's comments, and an intelligence in identifying a danger area.
You don't have to be a student of comedy to realise that if the same lines had been said by the nation's favourite, Ricky Gervais, in the character of David Brent, with a small posse of office workers looking disapproving in the rear of the shot, they would have been consumed and analysed in an entirely different way. In The Office, Gervais's Brent character is a pantomime burlesque of the unacceptable in all of us, but we appreciate that it is a character. To his credit, Connolly didn't gloss the lines, put them in inverted commas, wear a costume in order to deliver them, or defuse them with the dramatic conceit of having some authority figure on stage to condemn him. He merely offers them up for our consideration, and in so doing credits us, wrongly it might now appear, with intelligence, judgement and some sense of irony.
But to get too bogged down in justifying Connolly's lines morally and intellectually is to miss a bigger point. Namely, should comedy need to be morally and intellectually justified anyway? What Connolly did at Hammersmith, and did brilliantly, was to say exactly the wrong thing at exactly the wrong time. He has a genius for inappropriate behaviour. It's not such a long journey from what journalists are already calling Bigleygate back to Connolly's 1975 Parkinson appearance, when he joked about a Glaswegian man burying his wife with her bum sticking out of the earth so that he would have somewhere to park his bike. Parkinson wept. My mum wet her pants. And, the sterling work of The Beatles and Monty Python notwithstanding, it was finally clear that the 1950s were at last over. It is moments like this that bring that stand-up comedian close to the status of the holy fool.
In the year 2000 I finally brought a mild obsession with Native American clowns to a close, having stayed on the Hopi reservation in Arizona and seen the pueblos and plazas where they would have performed. I'd been researching a novel set in the region, but became sidelined for two years by a fascination with the pueblo clowns, part holy men, part fools. Soon afterwards I gave up stand-up for three years, due in part, though not exclusively, to anxieties about my own role raised by my reading. The Hopi clown's function was to manufacture inappropriate behaviour. The clowns would spend months studying the social tensions of their pueblo before, on special feast days, exploding them with carefully considered transgressive acts - simulated sexual assaults, absurd interruptions to sacred ceremonials, parodies of their oppressors' Christian services, incoherent reinterpretations of the life of
Christ and obscene scatological acts. The American army officer John G Bourke's 1881 pamphlet The Urine Dance Of The Zuni Indians Of New Mexico was one of many texts that led to the invading powers' active suppression of the pagan comedians of the pueblos, driving the clowns literally underground. Likewise, in 1975, Connolly, who had previously urinated on stage whilst dressed as the Pope, was escorted to a Belfast theatre by armed policemen. And now he's under siege once more.
But look at the Native American model. In those close-knit communities, perched on the high mesas, the pueblo clowns pushed at the limits of socially acceptable behaviour and showed the people, for better or worse, what lay beyond. Great comedy can act as both a social barometer and a social pressure valve. Connolly, more than any other performer in recent months, has shown that.
Our sympathies must go out to Ken Bigley's family. But we must also back Billy. Increasingly, opinions are manufactured and distributed by the same giant media machine: broadcasters like Fox are in bed with the Bush administration and, post-Hutton Inquiry, the BBC is running scared from the might of the Blair government. On some small level, people like Billy Connolly stick a spanner in the spokes and, just for a moment, make us aware of the mechanism. Nowadays we need him more than ever. Support your local wiseman.

Alba (Alba), Friday, 15 October 2004 10:25 (twenty-one years ago)

interesting. i like Lee.

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 15 October 2004 10:29 (twenty-one years ago)

To get all ILM on you, he likes improv (music not comedy), saw him at a Derek Bailey gig

Dataismus (Dada), Friday, 15 October 2004 10:32 (twenty-one years ago)

1. The joke about the man who used his dead wife's bum to park his bike isn't really very funny.

2. The 1950s were ended by the 1960s.

3. It doesn't seem to have occurred to Stewart Lee that even when he's improvising, Billy Connolly as Billy Connolly is just as much 'in role' as Ricky Gervais as David Brent, and also that the commentariat is 'in role' when attacking Connolly in role as Connolly.

4. 'Don't you wish they'd just get on with it?' isn't really a very funny joke either.

5. Peter Cook was a very funny man, but unlike Billy Connolly, unfortunately, he's dead.

6. Gary Glitter might be able to offer Billy Connolly some tips about nice retirement spots.

7. Billy Connolly's hairstyle is a crime against humanity:

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:z2ysg_LThfUJ:hem.passagen.se/mrprofit/bilder/billyconnolly.gif

8. As a Scot, I agree with the taxi-driver who thought that Billy Connolly is 'too English'.

Momus (Momus), Friday, 15 October 2004 10:40 (twenty-one years ago)

'Don't you wish they'd just get on with it?' isn't really a very funny joke either.

the humour lies in the idea of saying something so 'outrageous' combined with the suspicion that enough people deep down are thinking something along those lines.

he should've just started a meme on stage revolving around the names of chocolate bars instead tho. comedy (all)gold!

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 15 October 2004 10:43 (twenty-one years ago)

The cab driver explained that he hated Billy Connolly because he was ''too English''. I didn't know what this meant exactly. Was it perhaps that Connolly had given money away to charity, rarely ate shortbread, and was no longer an alcoholic?

I don't get the bit about "giving money away to charity", what's he trying to imply exactly? Connolly was definitely funnier on the booze than off it - bit like Mark E. Smith being better on amphetamine sulphate than off it.

Dataismus (Dada), Friday, 15 October 2004 10:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Momus is "too Japanese"

L Ron Mother Hubbard, Friday, 15 October 2004 10:45 (twenty-one years ago)

the only person who'd defend this is a comedian. fact is the "thai wife" comment is just fucking nasty and has nasty undertones, regardless of who Bigley was or what the outcome of his capture was or whether he was captured at all.

Sure comedians may have to take risks, but if they fail so stupendously then they fail as comedians.

Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 15 October 2004 10:49 (twenty-one years ago)

interesting piece, but...

"I believe that Connolly's lines, as reported in the press, allude to both these areas. In opining, ''Perhaps I shouldn't be saying this ... aren't you the same as me, don't you wish they would just get on with it?'', Connolly is referencing our inability to stick with a story, and the media's self-sustaining interest in spinning one out. Afghanistan is still a wreck, but we rarely see it reported any more. It's old, boring news. And global tragedies that unfold over years, rather than days, suffer a lack of public interest that aid-workers and fundraisers identify with the phrase ''compassion fatigue''. The line, ''What is it with him and that young Asian wife?'', I believe, deliberately addresses the fact that
whenever we see an elderly British businessman on TV with a young Asian woman it's usually in the context of a story about mail-order brides."

this passage cuts connolly rather too much slack. a pretty rose-tinted view of some bluntly insensitive comments. the fact that taking risks can provide great comedy doesn't justify *every* risk a comedian takes.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Friday, 15 October 2004 10:56 (twenty-one years ago)

ronan is otm

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Friday, 15 October 2004 10:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Both the wife's bum joke and the 'get on with beheading Bigley' joke are 'desecration of the sanctity of the dead' humour. They come at the expense of victims. They rely on the shock value of replacing some platitudinous (and liberal) expression of victim sympathy with a taboo (and reactionary) expression of victim blame. The logical conclusion of this sort of humour is to make some kind of 'let's look on the bright side' joke about the holocaust. I don't know if Connolly has done that, but if he did Lee could use all the same arguments about Connolly as a 'holy fool' saying the things others don't dare to justify it.

Momus (Momus), Friday, 15 October 2004 10:58 (twenty-one years ago)

"Connolly is referencing our inability to stick with a story"


you see this is bollocks too, he's referencing our inability to stick with a story by calling us out for eh......STICKING WITH THE STORY.

Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 15 October 2004 11:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Huh?

Alba (Alba), Friday, 15 October 2004 11:05 (twenty-one years ago)

well obviously people didn't wish they'd just get on with it. that's the fatal misreading on his part, he made an accusation basically that people are fickle about something, and it's just overly cynical on his part and not amusing. it's like a sulky kid in religion class saying god doesn't exist or something.

Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 15 October 2004 11:29 (twenty-one years ago)

well i'm not sure really. i hated watching the news about it because of the personal aspect of it all - direct and inevitable futile pleas to Blair from the captive and his family. i won't defend Connolly but i'm not gonna condemn him either.

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 15 October 2004 11:41 (twenty-one years ago)

There is a liberal and humane defence you could make of Connolly's joke. It's 'For god's sake -- and ours -- put the guy out of his misery.' But that's not what Lee is saying.

Momus (Momus), Friday, 15 October 2004 11:42 (twenty-one years ago)

It wouldn't be very funny, either.

Alba (Alba), Friday, 15 October 2004 11:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I think if Connolly had actually made a funny joke about Bigley I could feel some sympathy. I can't think of a joke that would actually be witty though, or clever.

Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 15 October 2004 11:45 (twenty-one years ago)

he took on the assignment though, not me, and failed.

Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 15 October 2004 11:45 (twenty-one years ago)

It's not your job to think of a joke that's witty or clever, that's Connolly's job and, this time round, he failed

Daddyismus (Dada), Friday, 15 October 2004 11:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, serendipitous xpost

Daddyismus (Dada), Friday, 15 October 2004 11:47 (twenty-one years ago)

joke != 'outrageous' remark - outrageous remarks part and parcel of many comedians acts

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 15 October 2004 11:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not so sure. at least if that's "outrageous" anyone could do it.

Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 15 October 2004 12:01 (twenty-one years ago)

but they don't do they? anyone can pass an 'unmade bed' as art but they don't etc.

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 15 October 2004 12:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Connolly forgets where he came from. I've been telling people that he's a twat for years and most of us up here in Scotland know he's a twat and disown the fucker. His fucking brown-nosing with the Monarchy, support for bloodsports and animal cruelty (wearing a dead badger and fur - FUCK YOU) and his ridiculously high concert prices (eliminating the very working class that he pretends to speak for) make him a joke. Standing up and telling SNP voters that "Hitler would be proud of you". He's just a mean-spirited upper class yob. He's embraced the very elitist class that he once took such pleasure in deriding. The "too English" by giving money to charity carries a similar descending tone of Scots people and makes no sense.

The Bigley joke was disgusting and simply unfunny. I hope this ends the wretched bastard's career. The Thai wife thing... wrong thing to say at the wrong time. Yes, older wealthy Brits go to Bangkok to pick up and marry younger women. Yes, there is a wealth of potential jokes in this. But not at the expense of someone who has now been beheaded.

Mad Mike, Friday, 15 October 2004 12:22 (twenty-one years ago)

"Older Scotsman goes to London to pick up and marry younger blonder women"

Daddyismus (Dada), Friday, 15 October 2004 12:24 (twenty-one years ago)

... but enough about me, back to Connolly

Daddyismus (Dada), Friday, 15 October 2004 12:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Is anyone else amused by the irony that two of the biggest Connolly-bashers on this thread are also its biggest exponents of they "Hey! Say something controversial!" approach to discourse?

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 15 October 2004 12:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Who's that?

Daddyismus (Dada), Friday, 15 October 2004 12:30 (twenty-one years ago)

my approach to discourse is easily summarised, seemingly.

Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 15 October 2004 12:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't think he was referring to you Ronan so much as the plethora of mouthy Scots gits who have descended, hyena-like, on this thread

Daddyismus (Dada), Friday, 15 October 2004 12:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Scots gits. Snark! You tube. Rather from Scotland than London.

Mad Mike, Friday, 15 October 2004 12:46 (twenty-one years ago)

It's Alan Partridge!

Daddyismus (Dada), Friday, 15 October 2004 12:47 (twenty-one years ago)

What mouthy Scots gits? ;-)

Marcello Carlin, Friday, 15 October 2004 12:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I was referring to Momus and Calum, not you Ronan.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 15 October 2004 12:55 (twenty-one years ago)

His fucking brown-nosing with the Monarchy

i thought that was just a movie...

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 15 October 2004 13:16 (twenty-one years ago)

The Spectator magazine !

The column has been labelled 'Tory propaganda'
Tory MP Boris Johnson has been attacked after his magazine used the death of Ken Bigley to claim Liverpudlians "wallow" in their "victim status".

Bigley article angers Liverpool
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/merseyside/3746588.stm

DJ Martian (djmartian), Friday, 15 October 2004 14:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Typical Boris Johnson lesson in tact there. I'm surprised he didn't mention shellsuits, hubcaps and smack.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 15 October 2004 14:30 (twenty-one years ago)

The question being, if Scousers hate the Tories so much, why does nearly every Scouser who becomes famous (a) fucks off out of Liverpool as quickly as possible and (b) loudly proclaims their love for the Conservative Party? Cilla Black, Jimmy Tarbuck, Stan Boardman, John Conteh, Kenny Everett, Ken Dodd (OK he still lives in Knotty Ash but we know what he thinks about taxation, i.e. as little as possible)...

I hear that the next celebrity the Tories are trying to attract to their side is Michael Owen.

Marcello Carlin, Friday, 15 October 2004 14:33 (twenty-one years ago)

The answer being, half a dozen cnuts with money is not representative of "scousers". People with lots of money tend to vote for whoever gives them the best chance of keeping it, whether they're from Liverpool, Glasgow or Windsor.
The rest of Liverpool is still pretty much piss poor and has every right to hate the Tories.

Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 15 October 2004 15:00 (twenty-one years ago)

There is a sentimental, wallowing side to Liverpool that I find a bit weird. I know some shit things have happened to a lot of Liverpudlians.

Alba (Alba), Friday, 15 October 2004 15:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I've yet to meet a Liverpudlian I like but I imagine I haven't met enough yet

Daddyismus (Dada), Friday, 15 October 2004 15:24 (twenty-one years ago)

... nonetheless it can be informative to meet people with an even bigger chip on their shoulder than you

Daddyismus (Dada), Friday, 15 October 2004 15:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Is anyone else amused by the irony that two of the biggest Connolly-bashers on this thread are also its biggest exponents of they "Hey! Say something controversial!" approach to discourse?

the plethora of mouthy Scots gits who have descended, hyena-like, on this thread...

We only kill our own. Then we eat them with our mouthy mouths. But if Connolly's on the menu, I'm going vegetarian.

Momus (Momus), Friday, 15 October 2004 16:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Connolly hasn't really been funny since he ran out of stories to tell about his youth. I will not condemn him without actually hearing the joke in context, but it doesn't seem that amusing.

Lee's article seems to miss a couple of points - comedians can be shocking but they still have to be funny, and not everything unpleasant can be written off with the 'irony' tag.

Ally C (Ally C), Friday, 15 October 2004 16:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Even his banana boot joke is funnier when Fat Bob Smith is doing it.

Momus (Momus), Friday, 15 October 2004 16:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Of course Boris Johnson was only taking his lead from Alexei Sayle.

Alba (Alba), Friday, 15 October 2004 16:55 (twenty-one years ago)

alexei pointing out that he himself is from liverpool is u+k.

koogs (koogs), Saturday, 16 October 2004 11:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Also 'sentimentality compounded by massive tragedy' is a world away from 'wallowing in victim status'. Sentimentality is no bad thing and I'm sure its similar in New York, Lockerbie, Dunblane, Omagh or wherever. On varying degrees of scale, obviously.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Saturday, 16 October 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)


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