The Scottish Parliament

Has anyone been in it yet?
I'm going with work to see it just before Christmas. I've been told I can't say "AND HOW FUCKING MUCH DID THIS COST?" every time I see something shiny.

Did we even need a new building?
We didn't strictly need one, but I was in favour of building one - when I thought it would cost £50-80M.

Especially one with "think pods"?
For that kind of money it had fucking better have think pods and all manner of pointless nonsense - at least that way we know the contractors didn't pocket ALL of the money. I want Star Trek swishy doors, retinal scanners, black marble urinals that play music and a pop-up GameCube at every seat.

So they can do even less work than they already manage?

In other words, no-one actually knows. So add cost of pointless enquiry to the overall cost.

Everbody else pointed the finger at power-crazed ex-left wingers wanting to have luxurious offices, plus Donald Dewar lying about the original estimates to get it through (being cheap making it less difficult for the other parties to oppose).

Add in chunks of the usual mismanagement that happens when the public purse is involved - contractors cynically exploiting the inability of civil servants to punish them, cost inflations being agreed because "it's too late to stop", the press automatically attacking the public servants irrespective of the facts leading to extreme apathy on their part.

I thought the "think pods" were "contemplation spaces".

No-one wants to blame Dewar because he was the Parliament's First First Minister and because he's dead. If he was still alive they'd be crucifying him.

The GameCube idea was for visitors. MSPs can make do with the multichannel digital TV in every office. They need to keep up to date with world events apparently, which is why they all have the sports channels.

On another Scottish sour note I've just heard the team news and I'm going to go out now and get drunk and watch our excellent home World Cup record being broken by a team that Vidar Riseth can get in.

Pish.

Pish pish pish pish pish.

Should a manager who takes off your most likely goal threat when you're losing stay? Good job he's "upbeat". The fucking prick.

There has been a similar project taking place in Westminster, along with much larger things, which have probably been equally expensive but are under a cover of protective intelligence. We are allowed to see how the cost of the Scottish Parliament has increased, whereas expense of "building work" at Westminster is not public.

I think the building is great. Any great building should have a clear purpose, and this will stand in time to be known as a worthy building (Westminster cost a ridiculous amount over budget when first built - not something anyone questions nowadays). There are the amusing factors - the belief that the design may actually be influenced from the architect being in Northumberland, not Scotland - and many other things. The fact is that the building is stunning, and in many years to come will be looked at and admired.

The fact is that the building is stunning

ihttp://www.edinburgharchitecture.co.uk/scotparl_msp_southwest_kh_rmjm.jpg

I'm just glad all the little sandwich shops and cafes that strung out like pearls along Holyrood in anticipation of great throngs of MPs and advisors are finally going to get some regular lunch-time business.

One of the things I don't understand why none of the shots I've seen of the new building manages to capture the bleak angular bluffs behind it, whose ruggedness makes me feel that the new building has crash-landed in Scotland from some parliamentarily-advanced future.

The people who laugh at the think-pods surely are missing easier targets, like the "zen rock garden" (although this came in under budget), and a loving recreation of the old black-and-white-tiled corridor of the Church-of-Scotland temporary debating chambers.

All the same, I really like the building. I do question its arrangement (there was a lot of darkness regarding who was a Scottish & Newcastle shareholder who made the decision, as that is who they bought the land off rather than using New Parliament house) but I think it sits very comortably where it is, and the surrounding landscape works with it stunningly.

I would love to find out how much has been spent on Westminster of late to compare. The debating chamber in the Scottish Parliament is stunning, and even big enough to accomodate all the MSPs (something that Westminster cannot do).

Obviously, it could have been somewhat cheaper...

Which is what Billy has now said anyway.

Has the investigation turned out to be a bigger waste of money than the building itself?

So then. Wendy Alexander.

an irrelevance. not even a footnote on a footnote in history. next!

(i've never seen this thread, incidentally. and i certainly have no plans to read it.

yet.)

Apart from the fact that she may have accidentally triggered the seperation of the union?

xp

Doubt that. Cameron winning the election will do that.

xpost what? like nobody had even thought about it until she piped up? up here we've been worrying about that one quite a bit, me laddo :)

all she's done is say: "can't we move things on a little faster?" and fair play to her -- bring it on, say i. (that said: i would like to wait till 2010 because there's a good chance that you lot will have voted in tories all over the place, making persuading our lot to cut the ties an absolute slap :)

wendy has an unenviable habit of opening her oddly-shaped mouth at the worst possible time, but believe me -- when she says: "i'm not the problem," she's pretty much on the bloody money, because she matters not an iota of a jot.

She's saying bring it on 'cos she knows people won't vote for independence yet

Challop.

she hopes.

but i have to say: i probably agree. hellfire, it's easy for me to sit here and rhapsodise about it, but that's because i've got the security of knowing it's not actually on the cards right now. and even if -- and it's a big if -- eck doesn't fuck shit up/cameron wins over england/etc, i'm still not sure a majority would turn out in favour, for all manner of reasons.

also, there's the SNP paradox: the better they do running the devolved administration, the more people will say: "hey, this works pretty well -- let's not rock the boat." which, in fairness, salmond understands -- better, i think, than many of his party.

I reckon once there's a Tory landslide in England and the 1000 Year Reich begins in earnest then a lot of Scottish Labour apparatchiks will start throwing their lot in behind indepedence. I mean, what's in it for Scotland anymore? Being saddled to a country full of right wing mentalists and peabrains for all time.

Doesn't a lot of Scottish independance rest on whether or not they get control of the North Sea oil rigs?

Why wouldn't they get control?

Territorial waters, innit?

Why wouldn't they get control?

'cos life has a habit of being really, really fucking unfair. especially where capitalism, vested interests and oil are concerned.

I don't think the oil is all that important anyway

it's a factor.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/albaalba/ilx/Picture2-1.png

They look like old people dancing at a wedding.

Probably be a referendum,doubt they'll be independence.

SNP in a strange position because they know, no matter how well they do in this election, there's no way they'd win a referendum on independence, the ConDem government might swing it for them but other than that, can't see it.

it might affect their support if they go "y'know what? fuck this independence bollocks" tho

That's pretty much what they have been doing and it has affected their support: it's gone up

Admittedly pretty much entirely Lib Dem voters

Too many pretty muchs there

maybe the Labour party shd try renouncing socialism oh wait

Well it worked in England that's for sure

SNP has moved to the left and concentrated on social issues,independence on the backburner,abt 1/4 of people who vote for them are unionists according to some poll I read.lib dems punished for faustian pact and voters gone to SNP because labour campaign/iain gray were fucking shite.scotland gone SNP but not nat.labour probably still dominate next Westminster election.

1/4 of people who vote for them are unionists

Less than I thought!

labour probably still dominate next Westminster election

If Scotland's involved! Wahey!

Haha. I think you're getting ahead of yourself.

Iain Gray's tea must be out?

He'll be getting his jotters soon I reckon

Who can replace Gray though? There's next to none of the Labour front bench left!

iain gray is shit

The most horrifying thing about this whole electioncampaign has been the discovery that Subway is open at 8:30am - what a horrible thought, a meatball marinara for breakfast.

what a horrible thought, alex salmond eating a meatball marinara or nine for breakfast.

He stole a chip from me once. Couldn't tell if he was trying to be personable or if he was just being, well, you know...

Listen, count your blessings, if Alex Salmond hadn't given up his Westminster seat, Nicola Sturgeon might be Scotland's First Minister now

nahh she doesn't have his charisma - they kept going on this week about how charismatic osama bin laden was but fat eck's the real deal

I know she's got no charisma but she's like the only other politician in Scotland, isn't she?

According to the producers of Question Time anyway

i once heard a fruity bit of gossip about nicola sturgeon but i've forgotten what it was now.

i've always been very, very impressed with her but yeah she's not exactly the warmest.

I enjoy telling people she's the reason I left Scotland. The concept of being impressed with Nicola Sturgeon ... uh... sorry, just can't get my head around that

i just think she's the total pro package. she never, ever gets flustered and she's on the right side of the issue most of the time.

she's the total pro package.

Exactly

Pretty easy to be the consummate pro in the Numpty Parliament of course

http://www.laetitiaguilbaud.org/communities/4/004/007/924/204/images/4533221388_pre.jpg

well yeah. i'm sure it can grate if you see her every day but her performance abilities - at the level of pure skill, staying on track, etc - are just awesome. she'd be good in a foxhole.

she does have a look of Basil Brush about her

she's awful

SNP have their majority.

This is wild. I will actually get to vote for independence.

Strongly suggest you check the current Iain Grey image here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament_general_election,_2011

Literally changed in the past minute.

Gray, rather. Anyway.

Alas, switched back. But for one brief minute, Glenn Quagmire was your Labour Party leader for Scotland.

Here it is in revision history: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Scottish_Parliament_general_election,_2011&oldid=427750122

people who revert awesome wiki edits like that are the most disgusting Picts

Iain Gray resigned now (well, in autumn)

He's like some Arab leader, go now you twat

Tho dunno why he's going and the Tory + Lib Dem leaders are stayiong, presuming they are

Maybe he was hurt by the wikipedia hijinks.

Neither have any replacements ready. Goldie still Tories best bet, and Scott one of few LDs have left.

man who wouldn't wanna be compared to Quagmire?

need these bloody regions to return; gonna fall asleep

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22713/electionresults.png

So that'll be that.

wow. more than everyone else combined?

Yup, one-party majority government for the first time in the reconstituted Scottish Parliament.

If nothing else, the next few years should be interesting.

With a system that is designed to make majorities really hard to achieve.