"clark county" feature in the guardian newspaper.

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http://guardian.assets.digivault.co.uk/clark_county/

The guardian newspaper has been running this thing for a little while, I must admit I haven't really been paying attention to it. They get interested readers to write to voters in this marginal area of the USA. It kind of seemed like a bit of an ill-advised idea to me. To-day, they printed a double-page spread of replies, which made for depressing reading. Some of them were positive, but the majority did seem to be strongly negative, and a lot of them were quite obnoxiously abusive, like fuck you limey fags, we kicked your asses in 1776, if it wasn't for us, you'd be speaking german, your teeth are all crooked etc etc. I read them all, and it gave me a headache, and the atlantic ocean seemed to widen a bit. It is easy to imagine some of the mails that were sent out being hectoring, bossy, snotty and so on though, to be fair. The whole exercise just seems to be a really bad and stupid idea. I feel kind of down, just because of reading this!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 18 October 2004 11:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I actually threw the G2 section of the paper away, so I wouldn't be tempted to read it again!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 18 October 2004 11:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it's probably better in theory than practice.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 18 October 2004 11:28 (twenty-one years ago)

See:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1329858,00.html

for replies

― Davel (Davel), Monday, 18 October 2004 11:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Ugh. Those are depressing.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 18 October 2004 11:47 (twenty-one years ago)

hardly surprising though.

― Pete W (peterw), Monday, 18 October 2004 11:48 (twenty-one years ago)

by which i mean, hardly surprising they would get pissed off by the well-intentioned meddling of outsiders. imagine if you received a letter from a stranger telling you how to vote? jeez.

― Pete W (peterw), Monday, 18 October 2004 11:49 (twenty-one years ago)

No, it isn't. I find it odd, however, that people confuse listening to opinions with being told how to vote. And I would be more than happy to recieve letters from abroad about the impact of UK foreign policy. I certainly wouldn't write back with insults - though I understand most people probably didn't do that. I especially liked the letter that was addressed to Scotland, Wales and England, but not to Northern Ireland. Why did they especially leave them out?

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 18 October 2004 11:51 (twenty-one years ago)

X-post (I mean, No it isn't surprising.)

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 18 October 2004 11:52 (twenty-one years ago)

When I read the feature, this is what I thought about - how would I reply, if someone wrote to me, especially if they wrote to me from a political viewpoint I disagree w/? I think I'd probably just delete/discard the mail. Perhaps if the writer seemed interesting I might write back and see what they have to say about other stuff, but to be honest it's quite hard to see they type of person who would write such a letter being, well, being much fun, really.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 18 October 2004 11:57 (twenty-one years ago)

(xpost i couldn't send this earlier)

i can imagine how the emails sent out can come across as a little arrogant though, imagine someone from the USA emailing you to tell you how you should vote!

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 18 October 2004 11:58 (twenty-one years ago)

and i guess there are probably some good replies being sent back but most are too sensibleboring to go on the website.

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 18 October 2004 11:59 (twenty-one years ago)

It is a nice idea (the letter-writing), i just think it would be very difficult to execute it without sounding extraordinarily patronising. the best way would be to attempt to instigate a genuine dialogue (who are you voting for? why?), but that isn't really what the campaign was about.

― Pete W (peterw), Monday, 18 October 2004 12:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, it sounds good - If the US won't deal with the world from the inside out we can try and talk to the US from the outside in. However, the reactions were fairly predictable, though I think unjustified. The assumption that the rest of the world has no business in criticising how the US acts is quite deeply engrained in the US right, to the extent that explaining your stake in Kerry's victory is equated with saying "you will vote for Kerry", even though there is no way such an order could be meaningful.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 18 October 2004 12:11 (twenty-one years ago)

the way i read the piece this morning i assumed they were emails received by the guardian *about the story* not from people who'd written to other people in Clark County.

i did think the idea was a little patronising in the first place. dificult though isn't it?

i did like the fact that all the rude ones were about teeth and tea though :)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 18 October 2004 12:16 (twenty-one years ago)

The letters from prominent Britains do not make for good reading. Dawkins in particular comes across very badly.

― RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 18 October 2004 12:17 (twenty-one years ago)

oh yes, they were tw@tish in the extreme, but i think the average graun reader would probably be a lot better.

also, see the "dude, where's my country" chapter about talking to your republican brother in law...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 18 October 2004 12:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I haven't read Dawkins one - is that the same or like the letter he wrote to Bush? If so, I can imagine people would be annoyed. I think Steve is right though - lots of them didn't seem to be responding to letters but more 'I heard about your plan'. They were insulting our love of tea, our oral hygeing, and our sacrifice in the two world wars.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 18 October 2004 12:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I think john le carre's letter was the worst one.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 18 October 2004 12:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm curious how a truly undecided voter would react to this, and I didn't see many emails that seemed to come from that viewpoint. I can't imagine anyone in the "stay the fuck out my country your teeth suck okthxbye" crowd would consider voting for Kerry, and the rest all seemed to be Kerry supporters already.

I appreciate the sentiment behind this kind of thing, but tactically it could really be a bad idea. It plays right into Bushco's "global test" meme, and Ohio is in such a dead heat that you really can't afford to turn anyone off Kerry.

― the krza (krza), Monday, 18 October 2004 12:22 (twenty-one years ago)

they look very similar to the sort of emails i had to go through a couple of years back (all the general coolege mails came to my computer) when a colleague of mine was asked to take down a union jack she had put up in the office post 9/11...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 18 October 2004 12:25 (twenty-one years ago)

(sorry, obv. the story got out and into the tabloids where it was somewhat distorted, hance people knowing about it and sending vile emails)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 18 October 2004 12:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, many of the 'anti' commentators didn't show a cogent grasp of either world history or how Britons choose a leader. The intrepid souls who sent the letters to the FBI/CIA must actually think guys in suits are going to turn up to have words with John le Carre and Richard Dawkins, aw bless.

I can only imagine how my undecided mom and sister would react to this. The only reason my mom isn't voting for Bush is because of him wanting to spend taxdollars on going to MARS - 'we can't afford that right now' she says. Of all the reasons to choose...

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 18 October 2004 12:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Pash I threw it away too, which I don't normally do so early in the day, and now I realize why!! The "we saved your ass" stuff was pretty disturbing and blinkered and unneccessary, although I have to say I sympathized with the f*ck off and d13 sentiments. What gall from the Guardian. How patronizing.

(I didn't understand why some of the letters were from New York and California if all the mail was targeted at Ohio.)

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Monday, 18 October 2004 13:00 (twenty-one years ago)

(because they were people upset about the idea, not recipients of mail)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 18 October 2004 13:12 (twenty-one years ago)

i personally find it disturbing that a major newspaper is making it so easy to get hold of someone's street address -- yet they assure guardian readers they won't give their email address to a third party. I would be outraged if someone got my address in this manner from my voters registration

I wonder if people would support this if, say, Bob Jones University or some group outside of Ohio gave addresses to all and sundry who requested it over the internet so they could write them on the ballot proposal against domestic partnerships

― rkl (rkl), Monday, 18 October 2004 13:13 (twenty-one years ago)

"fuck off lim3y b4st4rds and let me get back to reading that zoe williams column"

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Monday, 18 October 2004 13:16 (twenty-one years ago)

but don't political parties do that anyway? i was under the impression that the electoral roll was a public document...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 18 October 2004 13:17 (twenty-one years ago)

it's a public document, but it usually isn't online for just anyone to access

― rkl (rkl), Monday, 18 October 2004 13:19 (twenty-one years ago)

they have reporters working in the US, rkl! THEY'RE ALREADY INSIDE.

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Monday, 18 October 2004 13:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Are these people receiving emails/letters without prior consent? If I checked my inbox to find a bunch of emails telling me how to vote, I think I'd be a littled pissed off too. It's bad enough the constant invites to have my cock enlarged.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Monday, 18 October 2004 13:28 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't think that's quite what they're doing is it? i thought they were sending a single address to a single email. i can't believe other groups aren't doing it...

yes billy they're sending letters to people on the electoral roll. what i find odd is that people are registered on it as dem. rep. or independant, that is odd...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 18 October 2004 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)

telling me how to vote

Nobodys telling anyone how to vote! As for the electoral register thing, I think the Guardian gives you one random address, so it's hard to see how that would be at all useful for any other purpose. (x-post)

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 18 October 2004 13:32 (twenty-one years ago)

iu've also wondered why people must register as "republican" "democrat" or "independent" as well.. perhaps someone can start a thread on the genesis of the no doubt tammany-esque roots of this requirement

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Monday, 18 October 2004 13:52 (twenty-one years ago)

if you want to vote in a primary you have to be registered for a particular party (except in a few states, new hampshire does not require it if i remember correctly), hence the party affiliation on the electoral roll...

― marcg (marcg), Monday, 18 October 2004 14:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Amazingly no-one mentioned that every last person in Europe is a rabid anti-Semite - even the Jewish ones

― Serghei Daduismus (Dada), Monday, 18 October 2004 14:35 (twenty-one years ago)

They ran that one as a (totally useless and untrue) op-ed piece the other day.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 18 October 2004 14:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I noticed that, some hysterical woman with obvious mental problems

― Serghei Daduismus (Dada), Monday, 18 October 2004 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)

this is one of the dumbest thing the guardian has done in a long time. dummmber even than getting Franz Ferdinand in as guest editors. dawkins needs ANOTHER boot to the head, and i have every sympathy with the "fuck off" replies. having said that, BUSH MUST GO

― Jaunty Alan (Alan), Monday, 18 October 2004 14:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I tried to find it on the guadian's site, but I couldn't. I'm quite glad really, the piece was incredibly annoying. I was reading it thinking you are making this up!! why are you getting paid for this??!!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 18 October 2004 14:47 (twenty-one years ago)

i still don't get this, aren't the primaries held by the parties? wouldn't they have their own lists? blimey, and they say *we* have no privacy over here...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 18 October 2004 14:48 (twenty-one years ago)

my god, the guardian's politics forums!!!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 18 October 2004 14:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Steve, there are a lot of American customs that look weird and un-private, eg. our local town phone book had my dad listed as SURNAME, Mike E (w Claudia, Suzy '68 Betsy '70) and all families were listed thus - perfect for local kiddie fiddlers.You can also find out who gave money to which political candidates, by zip code. Also please remember that ID is pretty much compulsory over there.

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 18 October 2004 14:58 (twenty-one years ago)

We have a public list of political donations, as long as they are above £5000 (I think).

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 18 October 2004 15:08 (twenty-one years ago)

marcg: i know, that's what i'm wondering about mainly

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Monday, 18 October 2004 15:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I wish nothing but pain and suffering on Bush voters and their loved ones. Thus if getting one of these letters angers them or makes their day worse in any way I am all for it.

― adam (adam), Monday, 18 October 2004 15:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I was going to say something about that silliness by that American woman in the Guardian, but the only person I've ever seen abused for 'being American' is, oddly, Kate! Most people who want to have the American conversation with me are taxi drivers and they tend to be more conservative in their political views than I am, but seem quite happy to meet a lefty Septic with a vote against Bush.

Most working-class Britons have a MAJOR soft-spot for Bill Clinton, due to perceived cheekiness on Clinton's part.

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 18 October 2004 16:37 (twenty-one years ago)

so if someone doesn't like you they're an antiseptic?

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 18 October 2004 16:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha! I just saw this! Dudes, I used to live in Clark County for a while (Springfield, to be exact)! I suppose I was an object of some curiosity. One girl was overwhelmed to realize that i was listening to Ludacris instead of classical, and another asked me if everyone in London "dresses like they do on the catwalks". Otherwise, it's just typical Midwest, which I guess is why they picked it for this.

― adam. (nordicskilla), Monday, 18 October 2004 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Ed and I were joking about people writing to Springfield earler. What would Homer do if he got one of those letters?

'Septic Tank' equals Yank in Cockney rhyming slang, which shortens to Septic in actual use.

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 18 October 2004 17:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 13 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

this was my favorite:

Please be advised that I have forwarded this to the CIA and FBI.

― H (Heruy), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 06:58 (twenty-one years ago)

This is the stupidest idea ever.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 08:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I read some of those response this morning (bit late, I know) and found them depressing and disturbing, so I stopped reading. It was a bit of an arsehole idea in the first place though. I didn't read about that woman who de-spunked her dying husband either. I did read about ART vs ARCHITECTURE, which was quite good.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 09:16 (twenty-one years ago)

god how stupid and condescending, they should at least go the carl rove route and write "congratulations on voting for bush, we salute your understanding of his plans to build an enormous low security paedophile detention centre in the middle of clark county"

― dave amos, Tuesday, 19 October 2004 09:26 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1331922,00.html

― koogs (koogs), Thursday, 21 October 2004 13:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Here are some of my favourite bits from that article:

"I hope your earholes turn to arseholes and shit on your shoulders,"

Another [running theme] was a curious obsession with the state of British dentistry: "MAY YOU HAVE TO HAVE A TOOTH CAPPED. I UNDERSTAND IT TAKES AT LEAST 18 MONTHS FOR YOUR GREAT MEDICAL SERVICES TO GET AROUND TO YOU." At times, it felt as though whole swathes of America had suffered an epidemic of Tourette syndrome.

The same could be said of the news this week that Rush Limbaugh had devoted virtually all of one of his three-hour shows to our Clark County project.

For another, it seemed spectacularly patronising to suggest that the people of Clark County would be so volatile that they would vote one way simply because an individual several thousand miles away had suggested they do the opposite.
What other lessons can we draw from Operation Clark County? I guess we will have to wait till November 3 to find out for sure, but here's a provisional stab: there are a huge number of people around the world who are profoundly dismayed by the prospect of another four years of a Bush White House and who are desperate for a way to do something about it; Guardian readers are a reassuringly engaged, resourceful and largely charming bunch; parts of America have become so isolationist that even the idea of individuals receiving letters from foreigners is enough to give politicians the collywobbles and, perhaps, in the digital age little acorns can turn into big trees very, very quickly

I'm surprised Momus hasn't commented on this thread yet; he seemed to support the idea (or a similar one) a few days before the whole thing kicked off.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 21 October 2004 14:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I just looked at this and expected to be outraged, but I didn't think the three British letters were so bad at all.

― k3rry (dymaxia), Friday, 22 October 2004 16:30 (twenty-one years ago)

thousands of people from every corner of the planet writing personal, passionate letters to voters in a tiny American district few outside Ohio had heard of 10 days ago.
I realised just how much momentum our project to match concerned non-Americans with voters in a marginal US county

― Sympatico (shmuel), Friday, 22 October 2004 18:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Please note, too, that many (all?) of those obnoxious letters did not come from Ohio. It was another example of what we call 'freeping'.

― k3rry (dymaxia), Friday, 22 October 2004 18:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Somewhere along the line, though, the good-humoured spirit of the enterprise got lost in translation. It's easier perhaps for British readers to recognise that a project launched in G2 - the same section which sought to save Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith by persuading him to pose in front of a poster which read, "It rained less under the Conservatives" - was not to be taken in deadly earnest.

I love how he implies it's the Americans' fault for not knowing their Guardian sections. Seriously, that was the most condescending article ever written.

― Sympatico (shmuel), Friday, 22 October 2004 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah kerry otm - this is a fucking gift from god for the freepers

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 22 October 2004 18:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I love how he implies it's the Americans' fault for not knowing their Guardian sections. Seriously, that was the most condescending article ever written.

The tone is a bit smug, but I don't see how that quote suggests it's the Americans' fault at all.

― Michael Philip Philip Philip Philip Philip Annoyman (Ferg), Friday, 22 October 2004 18:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Why would he expect people from Clark County to know that the idea is from the lighthearted section of the newspaper?

― Sympatico (shmuel), Friday, 22 October 2004 18:44 (twenty-one years ago)

can't we organise some sort of swap, so the guardian-reading classes* and the freepers all end up in the same place = somewhere far away from the rest of us g?

*not the same as "guardian readers" b4 anyone gets all whatever - tho i remain baffled at why anyone still would

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 22 October 2004 18:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Why would he expect people from Clark County to know that the idea is from the lighthearted section of the newspaper?

He doesn't? He's saying 'people from America aren't likely to know much about the Guardian so that's probably why they didn't realise something in G2 wasn't that big a deal?

― Michael Philip Philip Philip Philip Philip Annoyman (Ferg), Friday, 22 October 2004 18:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Couldn't he have foreseen that American would take it more seriously than he apparently did before he started this whole stupid project?

(Also, do you think you could form your answer as a question? Can we continue the trend we have going here?)

― Sympatico (shmuel), Friday, 22 October 2004 19:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I assumed his point was kind of 'hm, in restrospect maybe we should have expected people to not get this and go batshit insane over it, sheepish mutter, still, these things happen eh?'

― Michael Philip Philip Philip Philip Philip Annoyman (Ferg), Friday, 22 October 2004 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

"Marginal" is not meant in a pejorative sense, Sympatico - it's Brit shorthand for closely-contested. You say swing states, we say marginals, let's call the whole thing Orff.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 22 October 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I actually didn't know that. That's very interesting. This misunderstanding is sort of symptomatic of this entire story, really.

― Sympatico (shmuel), Friday, 22 October 2004 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I liked the project because it was aggressive. It was also creative. I imagined some people sitting down and looking at the problem -- essentially summed up as 'No invasion without representation' -- the way advertising and marketing people would sit down and look at turning the image of a product around or increasing sales for a particular brand. However, in this case I think the problem was that the sharp end of the project was left in the hands of amateurs, the letter-writers themselves. And I think there were probably problems of tone, and cultural mismatches galore in the letters. Even professional advertising copywriters are not usually called on to make campaigns which run in both the UK and the US. They certainly would have their work cut out for them marketing a product which was supposed to sell the two target groups -- readers of The Guardian and residents of Clark County, Ohio. And if their copywriters were amateurs... well, forget it.

What amazed me was how closely the anti-British stereotype resembled me. I do indeed have bad, yellow teeth. I am indeed effeminate, and a socialist. And since I live in Berlin and speak German, I suppose I've even thrown away that glorious gift the Americans gave us in World War II, freedom from Germans.

― Momus (Momus), Saturday, 23 October 2004 09:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, yes, and I drink a lot of tea, and almost no coffee, Coca Cola or Grandma Ashcroft's Patented Truth Serum Syrup or whatever you're supposed to quaff.

― Momus (Momus), Saturday, 23 October 2004 09:24 (twenty-one years ago)

You see, there's what I would have suggested instead of earnest letters begging Clark County to reconsider. A spam campaign for Grandma Ashcroft's Patented Truth Serum Syrup! Send some to your boy in Iraq! Slip some in Paw's cawfee and ask him what he was really doing when he said he was working late! Put a drop in the President's tequila and find out who he's going to invade next and where he's getting the money!

― Momus (Momus), Saturday, 23 October 2004 09:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I find this project interesting because I can vote in this coming Presidential election but I don't think that I'm going to. My mother wants me to vote and I feel bad about not pleasing her in this respect but I just don't feel OK about it.

I'm very anti Bush and what he's done/doing. I'm also proud to be an American citizen (in my non standard fashion) even though I had to wait more than twenty five years to find out that I am one but none of this alters the fact that I don't feel OK about voting in a election of a country in which I don't reside.

So I've been reading these letters looking for compelling reasons for me to change my mind. The other problem for me is that I still believe that when you vote, you vote FOR someone, not against their opponent, and I just can't identify with Kerry strongly enough to support him.

― Amarga (Amarga), Saturday, 23 October 2004 10:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I respect your feelings, Amarga. But will you vote Kerry for me? Pretty please? I would so love to know that, through you, I had actually voted in this election.

― Momus (Momus), Saturday, 23 October 2004 10:19 (twenty-one years ago)

yes, amarga, you can vote for all of us :)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Saturday, 23 October 2004 11:53 (twenty-one years ago)

early and often!!

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 23 October 2004 12:19 (twenty-one years ago)

the clark county project having failed now the guardian is now simply advocating for the assasination of Bush.

― keith m (keithmcl), Saturday, 23 October 2004 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

scratch one now

― keith m (keithmcl), Saturday, 23 October 2004 19:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Keith, that's Charlie Brooker who used to do TV Go Home. It's in place of his bnormal telly column.

― suzy (suzy), Saturday, 23 October 2004 19:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Was that meant to say "normal" or "abnormal"? :-)

― caitlin (caitlin), Saturday, 23 October 2004 20:01 (twenty-one years ago)

uh, *normal* - the b is next to n on keyboard.

― suzy (suzy), Saturday, 23 October 2004 20:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, I realised that; I was just amused by the idea of Charlie Brooker being an abnormal telly columnist.

― caitlin (caitlin), Saturday, 23 October 2004 20:24 (twenty-one years ago)

what an utterly dim-witted and moronic article. you'd read better in a fucking student rag.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 23 October 2004 22:29 (twenty-one years ago)

i wish that some enterprising american journal would've thunk up a letter-writing campaign of americans to brits in manchester when those jackasses in oasis were breaking over here.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 23 October 2004 22:38 (twenty-one years ago)

what an utterly dim-witted and moronic article. you'd read better in a fucking student rag

I liked it. It seems to me a serious omission from most commentary on Bush that he's 'a lying, sniggering, drink-driving, selfish, reckless, ignorant, dangerous, backward, drooling, twitching, blinking, mouse-faced little cheat'. In fact, it should be statutory to say this every time you utter Bush's name, the same way you're supposed to say 'Peace be upon him' after naming the prophet Mohammed if you're a muslim.

I also liked the description of Kerry as 'a haunted tree'.

Far from a student rag, this writing resembles the work of recent Nobel Prize for Literature winner Elfriede Jelinek, especially her anti-neocon, anti-war tirade Bambiland.

― Momus (Momus), Saturday, 23 October 2004 22:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Look I agree with the article, I just don't think someone should be paid money to write such staid rubbish in a UK broadsheet newspaper. In the Guardian he might as well be writing an article about how magnificent it is to use bread in sandwiches.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 23 October 2004 22:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I also liked the description of Kerry as 'a haunted tree'.

Me too, he is rather Ent-ish.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Saturday, 23 October 2004 22:55 (twenty-one years ago)

No matter how many times Bush gets it between the squinty little eyes, and no matter how predictable it is when his head explodes all orange and seedy like a popped pumpkin, it still feels great each time.

― Momus (Momus), Saturday, 23 October 2004 22:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I dunno, I sometimes resent him more for uniting people in such unimaginative rhetoric.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 23 October 2004 22:59 (twenty-one years ago)

The piece is in the TV Guide; it's not biting comment on the letters page.

― Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 24 October 2004 07:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Momus, despite having a good giggle about the manipulation involved in, 'I respect your feelings...', I did find your offer appealing. I felt that it was a good way of solving my dilemma and making my mother happy. Unfortunately following an inquiry to the American Consulate, I find that I am too late to register to vote. So sorry, Momus, but you will not be voting in this presidential election, at least not with me as your proxy.

― Amarga (Amarga), Thursday, 28 October 2004 11:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Wouldn't it be the bitterest of ironies if Bush gets back in because of the Guardian?

― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, I doubt it had any real effect.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Unless it turned out to be the bellweather state that Kerry needed.

God, four more years of voluntary fascism, John Peel dead...isn't this the most stinking year ever?

― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 3 November 2004 09:02 (twenty-one years ago)

It's pretty crummy.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 09:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush won Clark county by 34444 to 32824 but in a state he's carrying by 130k+, it's a drop in the ocean.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 12:45 (twenty-one years ago)

wow, so this DID have an impact - http://slate.msn.com/id/2109217/

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 5 November 2004 02:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I really don't believe that this had any effect upon the election. And the Slate article also refers, once again, to the opinion of the TV columnist for the Guardian.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Friday, 5 November 2004 03:04 (twenty-one years ago)

ten years pass...

george bush looks like a monkey

― Albanic Kanun Autark (nakhchivan), Saturday, 4 April 2015 21:06 (ten years ago)

don't we all, though?

― the late great, Saturday, 4 April 2015 21:13 (ten years ago)

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