Pat Robertson says Bush told him there would be no casualties in Iraq

Robertson, the televangelist who sought the Republican presidential nomination in 1988, said he wishes Bush would admit to mistakes made.

"I mean, the Lord told me it was going to be A, a disaster, and B, messy," Robertson said. "I warned him about casualties."

More than 1,100 U.S. troops have died in Iraq and another 8,000 troops have been wounded in the ongoing campaign, with the casualty toll significantly increasing in the last six months as the insurgency there has deepened.

Asked why Bush has refused to admit to mistakes on Iraq, Robertson said, "I don't know this politics game. You know, you can never say you were wrong because the opposition grabs onto it: 'See, he admitted he screwed up.' "

Even as Robertson criticized Bush for downplaying the potential dangers of the Iraq war, he heaped praise on Bush, saying he believes the president will win the election and that "the blessing of heaven is on Bush."

"Even if he stumbles and messes up -- and he's had his share of stumbles and gaffes -- I just think God's blessing is on him," Robertson said.

If he spent even one tenth of that knee-time reading the Christian Science Monitor, I think America would be a much safer place.

But who will the Lord bless in the event of a Sox-Astros series? The Texans represent the blessings of heaven, but are Massachusettans (sp?) not G-d's people too? What will happen? Tonight at 8, only on FOX!

http://altura.speedera.net/ccimg.catalogcity.com/210000/212900/212988/Products/7099202.jpg

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/19/233944/39

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1250697/posts

Not if you assume that, had we had "a plan for the peace," the number would be much smaller

I should add I'm British and although I don't know how well I get the US politics of it, Blair's policy on Iraq is pretty similar to Bush's. The US army recently asked for a greater British presence in the really unpleasant bits of Iraq and they UK govt is currently mulling it over. IMO, either the UK govt is trying to show the US that they won't immediately jump at the US's request and reserve the right to act independently; or they genuinely worry about further involvement and think that the UK public won't stand for Vietnam II, having been so smug about not getting involved in the Vietnam in the first place. Either way, I think they'll send the troops anyway. And will the UK vote in a LibDem government, as the only credible party which advocates withdrawal from Iraq? Will they fuck.

Not if you assume that, had we had "a plan for the peace," the number would be much smaller

I agree.

Just as Americans tend to focus on the 50K dead from Vietnam and the subsequent vet suicide/alcohol/drug related deaths, I find the obsession with our casualties justifiable though somewhat self-centered. We killed 3 million Vietnamese in an effort to save them from communism. The estimates of Iraqi dead are around 25K to 30K, I believe, with little hope of anything better than a new tyranny or civil war brewing.

I have long supported regime change in Iraq and even supported voting war powers to the President so as to make the threat to Saddam more credible but if there was something to cock up leading to this war logistically, politically, chronologically, in terms of relative degree of threat, in terms of resources, allies, and legal justifications needed, they've cocked it up. I just think that if one has to kill people for political ends and expose one's own troops to death and dismemberment, if it's really important, we have to be prepared for much larger numbers of dead than we now have. They had no realistic plan. They didn't give the soldiers the troops and time that they wanted. They think it's important enough to engage in pre-emptive wars against third rate military powers but not enough to eschew the politically dangerous steps of not ruling out the draft or tax increases for their wealthy friends. The really vexing thing is that these amateur adventurists have stuck us with an almost unwinnable situation where the U.S. is probably going to have to declare peace with dignity and hand the place over to the U.N. thereby further degrading its reputation. It seems absolutely criminal from the point of view of furthering peace and the patriotic duty of protecting America to have so fuxored up the U.N. and the 50 year reserve of trust among the Atlantic allies. These neo-cons do not understand the unstable history of Europe up to at least the 18th century or, if they think they do, they have no compunction in turning this republic into more of an imperial power with hegemonic designs on the entire globe than ever. If international relations can be like a difficult arranged marriage which takes patience and work, these guys are the ugly john with the wad of cash treating the world as their whore. I predict we will suffer for their arrogance and ignorance.

Not that any of this makes me support Bush any more or any less, so I guess it's n irrelevance - it may be more relevant to the right or the undecideds, of course, but not to me. Perhaps Bush was using coke again; 'I'm on top of the world,'.

"We believe President Bush should get the benefit of the doubt here," Kerry spokesman Mike McCurry said in a news release.

"But he needs to come forward and answer a very simple question: Is Pat Robertson telling the truth when he said you didn't think there'd be any casualties, or is Pat Robertson lying?"

Hah - when did you stop beating your wife, Mr President? This must be more of that "reality based" stuff...

BROWN: Welcome back to HARDBALL. Pat Robertson is the founder and chairman of the Christian Broadcasting Network and is a strong supporter of President Bush. Earlier this year, he said God told him the war in Iraq was, quote, “going to be messy and actually a disaster.”

Pat, first of all, Pat. I want to ask you...

REV. PAT ROBERTSON, CHRISTIAN BROADCASTING NETWORK: Thank you, Campbell.

BROWN: I want to ask you how you feel about the war in Iraq. And if God is calling this war a disaster, does that mean that he is actually opposed to it?

ROBERTSON: Well, I don‘t think God‘s opposed to the war, necessarily, but it was a danger sign. I felt very uneasy about it from the very get-go. Whenever I heard about it, I knew it was going to be trouble. I warned the president. I only met with him once. I said, You better prepare the American people for some serious casualties. And he said, Oh, no, our troops are, you know, so well protected, we don‘t have to worry about that. But it has been messy. And I think we‘re going to come out of it, though. I think we‘ll have a free Iraq. But it certainly has been a mess so far.

lol later...

BROWN: You said—quote—“I really believe I‘m hearing from the lord, it‘s going to be like a blowout election in 2004.”

Do you believe that God supports President Bush?

ROBERTSON: No. I just think I‘m hearing what‘s happening.

But start out with economics. We‘ve dumped $550 billion into the economy and there was no way, with that kind of fiscal stimulus, with interest rates, the fed funds rate at 1 percent or maybe going to 1.25, that we wouldn‘t have a very robust economy.

And that‘s exactly what‘s happening. It‘s turning around right on schedule, just like I thought it was. Already, one million jobs have been created. And coming into the fall, the economy is going to be booming. The question in Iraq is pretty much going to be settled. We‘ll have a turnover on June the 30th to the Iraqis and then more and more, we‘ll be stepping into the background and that issue will fade.

And, frankly, the Democrats are not going to have anything to run on. They‘re run saying this is the worst economy since Hoover. They‘ve been wrong. So was this God? I felt that the lord was saying this to me, but maybe I was speaking out of my own mind. What I really said was, it‘s going to be a very prosperous year for everybody and on the strength of that, I think Bush is going to win handily.

Matthew 7:15-23 - "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Robertsn's a loon, but I like watching the 700 Club. I like the fake news set up, it's like an alternate reality, maybe even a glimpse of the future if the Bible cracker robots take over.

(I'm not a big fan of Specter, but I wouldn't say he's as slimey as Santorum. He does from time to time take positions that are unpopular with other Republicans.)

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/12454799.htm

Vice President Jose Vicente Rangel said Venezuela was studying its legal options, adding that how Washington responds to Robertson's comments would put its anti-terrorism policy to the test.

"The ball is in the U.S. court, after this criminal statement by a citizen of that country," Rangel told reporters. "It's huge hypocrisy to maintain this discourse against terrorism and at the same time, in the heart of that country, there are entirely terrorist statements like those."

http://www.chavezthefilm.com

ONCE AGAIN, MASSACHUSSETS SUPPORTS THE ENEMY.

(How many Venezeulans were on those airplanes anyway?)

Results 1 - 10 of about 751 for pat robertson avuncular. (0.31 seconds)

yet on the other hand, i'm a christian, so when the big public christian figures are polarizing morons, man that makes us all look like jackasses. i could see some people thinking, "look who they picked to speak for them, they must be assholes!"

of course, similar statements could be made about our president.

and i'm probably an asshole anyway. yay! and a wingnut i bet! high fives!
m.

another thing is that many, many Americans pay attention to this guy and believe everything he says. And some folks have no problem with going along with it, too, like the John Gibson guy on Fox News yesterday...

sometimes i wonder how i could possibly have become a liberal. thank god for skateboarding and punk rock.
m.

These are questions I've wanted to ask of my liberal Christian friends, but, as always, they're easier to ask on the internet: Do you ever fear that your "wing" of Christianity may be on the verge of becoming non-viable, like, say, Lincoln Chafee Republicanism? And, in the future, in theory, at what level of overlap between "wingnut" and "Christian"--90%, 95%, 99%--would the terms become effectively interchangeable? Could anything of this sort make you secede?

intereting way to put it. I grew up Presbyterian, and our local church had a split where the pastor and half(i think) of the congregation(incl. my parents and thus me) left b/c they thought the national church(of whatever form it takes for Presbyterians) was "intrepreting too much". So i wound up in the more conservative splinter of a relatively loose church.

thing is, what you say has already happened in a sense; the wingnut crowd deliberately conflated itself over the last 30 years with "Christianity", and journos who are gunshy about covering or ignorant of don't help when the only voices quoted are reactionary fuckheads.

It helps that guys like Jim Wallis are out there.

we're very viable, we're just not given air time because we're not telling our president to assasinate foreign leaders.

the squeaky wheel gets the press coverage.

as far as the wingnut vs. christian thing... i mean, if some rationalistic atheist is going to insist i'm a total fruit for believe in an unprovable thing... like i might in regards to someone who believes in 15 foot flying fairies... well, to that person, wingnut and christian might as well have a good overlap. if that person wants to be fair and sensitive to other reasonable people, even if their christian, then wingnut seems pretty inappropriate. it's like bill maher... funny guy, but he loves to bash religious folks. that's fine. and it's usually funny. but my patience goes down and down if he goes on too long. can we save wingnut for the more jerky types of complete insane people (as deemed by the rationalistic atheist type)?

m.

There have always been Crusaders and Inquisitions. They usually get exposed for being the distortions that they are. A real Christian doesn't worry about his satellite network or waterslide. He continues to do good deeds, have faith, and know in the back of his mind that sooner or later, those Towers of Babel will eventually fall down.

Was it Orthodox Presbyterian? That's writer Larry Woiwode's denomination.

it's all lines in the sand. type stuff.
m.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050823/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_robertson_assassination_6;_ylt=AmM8nxb5V6BPbkFLSaBpbD1jhuIA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Bullshit.

"I said our special forces could take him out. Take him out could be a number of things including kidnapping," Robertson said on his "The 700 Club" television program.

"There are a number of ways of taking out a dictator from power besides killing him. I was misinterpreted," Robertson added.

He might as well say "They got me just like Jesus."

oh wait, here it is:

Established in 1944 as a particular church, Calvary was for many years a member of the PCUSA: however, shifts in the theological and moral positions of that denomination caused many churches to leave its fellowship in the 70's and 80's. Calvary was one of these and in 1981 became the third church to join the newly formed Evangelical Presbyterian Church. Traditionally Presbyterian in theology and government, the EPC has nearly 200 churches and approximately 50,000 members nationwide.

Hunh. whaddayaknow. Guess i was raised evangelical. Note that a number of folks from my church have reportedly left due to our pastor's increasing conservatism.

it was odd, sitting in my senior year AP English class, and realizing that i had sunday school there in that same room 8 years previous.

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050824/capt.sge.brf07.240805184450.photo00.photo.default-389x257.jpg

oh yeah, and maybe he DID say "assassination." and he has apologized, which makes him a bigger man than Rove, tho that really ain't all that hard to do.

But he only offered it in writing, not on the air. Ya take what you can get.

Well, wouldn't it...punk?

Robertson also tried to play guilt-by-association, alleging vague links between Chavez and Iran. Not a wise step for him. Robertson really isn't in any position to start a game of Six Degrees of bin Laden. Let's see ... Pat Robertson invests in blood diamonds, the sale of blood diamonds funds al-Qaida. Two steps...

and how the Bible "frowns on tyrannicide."

Don't do it Hugo! It's a trap!

Oh, and the end times are nigh, according to Rev. Robertson.