The Power Of Nightmares/Adam Curtis

As for the likes of Irving Kristol and "Professor" Richard Pipes, the words "please kill me" sprang to mind...

Come to think of it, where exactly does Pol Pot fit into all this?

But yes, a beautiful, confident piece of documentary making, that got me feeling all 'ahh, the BBC'.

I liked this assessment in the Times today:

If 'The Power of Nightmares' had been drafted as a play, it would be hailed as a dazzlingly thought-provoking drama. As a book, its thesis would become a debating point on talk shows round the world. Even in the form of a here-are-the-facts documentary, it is so artfully crafted, so engagingly argued, so playfully illustrated, that you happily reserve your questions and reservations until the final credits start rolling.

Here is a talented, intelligent film-maker enjoying himself and showing what you can do with an hour of television. It is deliciously spliced together, seasoned with deftly chosen archive footage from an improbale palette of sources: everything from clips from episodes of 'Perry Mason' and 'Gunsmoke', to American prom dances and Egyptian television commercials.

Apparently it was going to be trailed as long ago as the weekend before last, but they pulled back on it because of Ken Bigley.

X-post. Ahh, cool. I haven't read that.

I did like his book "Russia Under The Old Regime", so was slightly disappointed to find out he was in with all the neo-cons in the '70s. Although he did have one very annoying habit of referring to all medieval people of Scandinavian origin as "Normans".

I can't remember what the Mitrokhin Archive says about Soviet sponsorship of teroorism, but there was something. Possibly supplied by The Spy Who Came In From The Garden.

A torrent for the episode, if anyone is interested.

In the end, it was strangely calming, rather than depressing. All this will pass.

Tonight's episode was very poignant, and made me sad.

I second that. I downloaded the last two episodes last Saturday and watched them, very powerful. It's sad that there's great documentaries such as this and The White House for Sale airing on UK television, and most people in the US won't get an opportunity to see them.

Also, things that weakened his argument, such as Madrid, were kind of skipped over a bit too lightly.

Kerry seemed shoved in just in case.

Quibbles aside, top-notch television. I may even go for a month without complaining about my licence fee.

It is strange that I had never heard those people swearing as the planes hit the towers.

The cumulative effect was a kind of political version of James Burke's Connections series from the '70s. OK in shaggy dog conspiracy terms but didn't really pinpoint whether it was just the expected cocktail of bilateral incompetence, stubbornness and stupidity which led us to our current pretty pass rather than a Conspiracy as such.

I too totally agree with PJ Miller. I don't recall Madrid being mentioned at all. I couldn't get the idea out of my head that while it's fine to criticise the hysteria created by the neo-cons, (that Disney video!!), you can understand why the likes of Britain have to at least be on their guard against the kind of thing that happened in Madrid - even if we acknowledge the programme's main point that there is no such thing as monstrous Al-Qaeda.

This was the third part, part 1 was all about Afghanistan

great use of music, mind.

a) didnt really explore what Bin Laden's motivations were for trying a new policy of attacking america, going against what other islamic fundamentalist gorups were interested in (eg toppling central asian regimes*).

b) kept on repeating how the neo cons "grand mission" was some titanic battle of good vs evil, that seemed a bit suspect. are these people really solely driven by moral purpose, no matter how extreme or well, silly, that moral purpose is?

c) er i tcant think of another. but i sort of inherently dont believ things on tv when people make somewhat grandiose claims, whether they be blair, bush or some dude intoning opposing views over loads of tiny clips. it was kinda eisenstein-esque, and well, his aim was kinda totally "manipulate the viewer, worry bout factual issues later".

* interesting becasue in 2000 i was in debate with loads of russian politics students, and they savaged us about Chechnya, along the lines of "Russia is under the threat of Attack by a islamic super state, chehcnya will be the first to fall to them". We (ie a few brits) were all like, "WTF? Islamic fundamentalism? whats that? whats the issue here? quit being so paranoid!". a year later, it became a bit clearer what the idea of a threat from islamic fundamentalism might mean.

... on keyboards and vocals.

more notes: he's still fascinated by dance and people just enjoying themselves - rightly imv - but i'm curious to know what this symbolises in his aesthetic. some sort of persistence in people beyond ideology while expressing v evidently what people feel, in a way nothing else can?

xpost Cardew! was it. amazing.

I think Curtis wanted to show people having a good time/being positive while so much of the country was under the cosh of weird economic experiments.

All comes with an undercurrent that these kids are just the adults of tomorrow, who will make the same mistakes.

yeah but dance has been persistent throughout his recent ouevre so it’s clearly a thing beyond this series.

guy (cant remember his name but hes introduced as a 'polymath')

Jonathan Miller! Playwright, critic and director of a pretty great tv version of Alice In Wonderland w/ music by Ravi Shankar. Also part of Beyond The Fringe.

was listening to a recent Curtis interview, he quite annoyingly enthuses a lot about Banksy. I did not know that The Land of Make Believe by Bucks Fizz was an anti-Thatcher song!

the guy interviewing him is a bit of dozy twit, but I did find it amusing that AC is aware of Garys Economics.

I just found out that Curtis directed this music video for Weyes Blood in 2023:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bczKVMPmDlk

Just finished the first episode, I'm here for the vibes and the found footage (will we all look as foolish in 40 years time? yes) but the stephen hawking stuff is absolute garbage and makes me question the veracity of the other captions.

Yeah, got very eyerolly there.

It's a bit of a rug pull I think, further eps are...more skeptical

Did he even need that wheelchair?

The squaddies trying to do Magic Eye absolutely killed me also.

yeah that was real england gold

I think this one was probably the most consistently funny show he has done

Yeah it's so funny. It has some horrible bits also obviously, and sad stuff, but some absolutely hilarious shit throughout.

Also, like, I know it is obvious that history and events are summarised incredibly thinly, though I do think a lot of people seem to act as if this isn't the case. This doc really does give a sense of depth and breadth and the myriad events occurring at all times. I know it's still just a tiny snapshot but it is quite powerful to get such a range of things.

That said, the last episode really seems to skim about thirty years in three mins then just ends abruptly.

I think this one was probably the most consistently funny show he has done

I think the Leeson/Barings one has this beat, but only because it's 50 minutes of Curtis beating up on Barings and not much else. The some great comic editing in that one.

(I was surprised that he mentions Katie Baring with Hatton and does not return to the well later on in Shifty)

Yeah the Barings one was fucking phenomenal.

Loved the shot towards the end of the last ep of Shifty, of Blair and Brown looking around confusingly, juxtaposed with the tv pop performance

Which is the Barings one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkhcpcuZvV4

merci!

Watched the 3rd EP last night and its still on Thatcher, which is a bit boring.

Pretty hard to escape Thatcher in the UK in the 80s.

... and for a long time after!

Not sure, I think a lot of her policies have (and are) unravelling. We could talk about the 2008 crash and spend an EP on that, Blair as continuation but with wars in middle east too, Greenfell, Brexit. Hope to see more of that, but there's way too much on the 80s when its worth mining the 90s and seeing what might have been there.

Particularly as most of that ground was covered at length in Pandora’s Box (I think).

Was checking to see what age Adam Curtis is and he's actually older than I thought, more of a child of the 60s/70s than the 80s.

I also felt a bit disappointed at "oh here's new labour oh now it's over", but tbf the intro makes it clear it's about the UK at the end of the 20th century. Now I think of New Labour as a very 90's thing, britpop and all that, but they only really got in in '97, so by the show's premise it was only ever going to take up a small portion of the thing.

Yes, the 2008 crash is the wrong century!

there is some very queasy footage of the emptiness of Millennium Dome committees with Mandelson talking on a large mobile phone to Blair. Some ghastly New Labour apparatchiks looking and sounding like the dead inside ghouls that they are. I enjoyed that bit.

I heard Curtis saying in an interview that Elon Musk was a fan of his work but he was more impressed to discover Kanye West is also a fan. Apparently Kanye's constructive criticism of his work was that it needed editing down to 20 mins.

Or is this just another feedback loop of nostalgia? Repeating back sounds and images of the past. Which is the way the system controls you, and is the way this series was made.

Ok Adam, guess I'm the asshole for watching.

lol, that was a bit M Night Curtis

haven't seen the new one yet but thought this point was interesting localgarda!

oops, hit submit before i was ready. i was just going to say i went wild and started this thread

some people on the left retreat to the arts as a space where they are unchallenged

I think this one was probably the most consistently funny show he has done

The bit with the stroppy kid messing about on a dumper, arguing with someone offscreen about whether he can drive it or not, which ends on the single word, "Knobhead". Somehow even funnier because it's all happening in the dark and you can barely see anything.

yes, I think that footage was from Bradford and was very much in the character of the city.

it reminded me of a period when I was working on the Windhill estate for a few years. Rough as fuck but never a dull moment.

The Millennium Dome and Alexander McQueen stuff in the last EP was p good.

And yes, liked footage of kids mucking about with cars, guitars.

Hawking was really pushed and this was p weak overall. LRB did something similar with Roger Penrose in the current issue, coincidentally. Guy who has brains but has 'failed' in a fundamental way with other ppl.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v47/n11/steven-shapin/through-the-trapdoor

Nothing on the tech right, but concluded that perhaps the BBC wouldn't have the footage for a program on that in particular given its roots are in the US, and that maybe cuts mean their archive of say 2000 to 2012 wouldn't be as strange and vast.

Alexander McQueen was a very real, intense mofo. I don't know anything about fashion design, but it's hard not to be impressed with him.

LRB did something similar with Roger Penrose in the current issue, coincidentally.

Somewhat amused to find out that Penrose, who is 93, has an older brother. He's 96!

Think it ended too early timeline wise to have the tech stuff in a big way

What no Alan Sugar and Clive Sinclair?

"His name, was Michael Dell"

ZX Spectrum modding scene is still huge

OK not really

Confess I'd forgotten that Clive Sinclair was something of babe magnet.

Alexander McQueen was a very real, intense mofo. I don't know anything about fashion design, but it's hard not to be impressed with him.

Otm

going to start J G Farrell's Empire Trilogy this weekend just for the hell of it. There is a bit from that RTE doc that Fizzles linked that is still haunting my mind. The guy who says when he was a student he saw another student in the bar reading a copy of The Siege Of Krishnapur. And then it came back to him, oh yes, I watched the author of that book drown when i was a child.