Japanese Fine Art

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I did start a thread ages ago about a particular narrow strand of this, a test to see if I could find something in which no other ILXer was interested, but this is meant to be broad. It is triggered by finding (for £2.50 in a local charity shop) a boxed set of Christie's sale catalogues from a couple of 1985 sales of Japanese art items, and I've been in ecstacies studying them the last few hours. There is the stuff everyone knows about, such as 19th C Edo prints by Hokusai (the print that's on my work PC's desktop, for $20-30k), Hiroshige and Utamaro, a range of ceramics, loads of netsuke and some good paintings (scrolls and screens), but the things that thrilled me most are items that don't really have parallels elsewhere: the small sword parts, such as the flat plate between the handle and the blade, extravagantly decorated, and the inro, small compartmented boxes, again inlaid with lacquer, gold and the like, with gorgeous little compositions. Inro have been a small obsession of mine for a while now, so finding something with lots of images of gorgeous ones was the great delight for me here.

So, does anyone else have any interest in any of this stuff?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 13 November 2004 20:08 (twenty-one years ago)

My desktop picture is also a Japanese woodblock print. Hiroshige I think. I don't know the title. I love woodblock prints.

― Orbit (Orbit), Saturday, 13 November 2004 23:16 (twenty-one years ago)

(I have to say, I'm astonished noone has posted that Hokusai hentai link yet)

― caitlin (caitlin), Saturday, 13 November 2004 23:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I think they are generally pretty popular - well, in a small way, you know. I'm mostly wondering if I'm alone in my passion for things like inro and little sword parts and articulated iron models and that sort of thing - I kind of suspect I might be. I wish Felicity were still around, as she did have a serious interest in and knowledge of Japanese arts. Cis, possibly? She's doing Japanese Studies at Oxford now, and I think these are interesting cultural artefacts on many levels, as well as being wonderful works of art. I really recommend doing a google image search on inro and taking a look at a few - they're often breathtakingly lovely.

xpost: don't know what that is, but Hokusai, like so many great Japanese print artists, produced a fair bit of porn himself. There was a great print of an octopus raping a woman on show in the British Museum a while back.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 13 November 2004 23:23 (twenty-one years ago)

yes, that's the picture I had in mind - someone posted a link to it on here a week or two ago.

I think it's called "The Dream Of The Fisherman's Wife", or something along those lines.

― caitlin (caitlin), Saturday, 13 November 2004 23:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I spent an afternoon at the V&A last week, a large portion of it in the Japanese section with the netsuke and inro. They had a couple of books in teh display cases specifically about them, probably a V&A publication. Have you seen those?

― sgs (sgs), Saturday, 13 November 2004 23:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I have seen their stuff, but I've resisted spending the money on such books! I should rethink that, as I am wealthy now and wasn't when I last looked at sucj things.

That's the one, Caitlin - but explicitly sexual images were commonly produced then.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 14 November 2004 00:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I am wealthy now

I like the idea of Sir Martin of Skidmore and his palatial home. :-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 14 November 2004 00:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, wealthy by my previous standards, i.e. I shouldn't worry about buying the odd pricey book. ha, and my new home is even less palatial than the one you've seen.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 14 November 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah well, if it's a good archive for all yer fine goods and is comfy to boot, then hey!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 14 November 2004 01:01 (twenty-one years ago)

It's as big as the old place, but that was an old Victorian house, whereas this is an ex-council flat - nowhere near as nice. No garden either now.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 14 November 2004 01:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I like a lot of the netsuke, especially the supernatural or mythical ones. For example the Kappa with water in his head, the long armed short legged/short armed long legged team of fishermen (I think maybe that has it's origns from China), and the old guy with the tall forehead.

As for other Japanese fine arts, Calligraphy is my favorite, but probably some of the best calligrapy comes form China.

― A Nairn (moretap), Monday, 15 November 2004 01:08 (twenty-one years ago)

martin, sarah, have you been to see the japanese swords at the british museum? i went on my birthday but only got 1/3 of the way around being being ushered out by a camp frenchman. must go back.

all of the ones i saw had some kind of bead wound into the binding of the handle about 2/3rds of the way up. do you know the reason for this?

― koogs (koogs), Monday, 15 November 2004 09:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I have seen those, Koogs, they're beautiful. Just guessing, but the beads may be something to do with hand placement while holding it? Or were they on blade-only swords? I love the cloudy line along the blade edge, what I have just reminded myself from google is called the temperline, or hamon. The info page I found didn't mention the beads though.

They used to have a bunch of the woodblock pr0n prints around that room also, if I remember rightly, and netsuke displays out in the entrance landing, though I haven't visited that room in several years. I visited the Enlightenment room for the first time the other day--it has small sections on Japanese art (and the discovery/importation of it).

― sgs (sgs), Monday, 15 November 2004 09:42 (twenty-one years ago)

i regret not picking up the little book i saw in the bookshop that covered all the fundamentals about japaneses swords. it's on until february. (the whole japanese section has been closed for quite a while before the swords thing as far as i can tell. i went looking for it some months ago and it was all closed, being refurbished?)

ah, mekugi:
http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/saya.gif

apparently "The Mekugi which holds the Tsuka onto the Nakago of a Japanese Katana." so that's clear...

― koogs (koogs), Monday, 15 November 2004 10:39 (twenty-one years ago)

(it keeps the handle on)

― koogs (koogs), Monday, 15 November 2004 10:39 (twenty-one years ago)

looking again, i think sarah's right and what i saw were actually Menuki:

http://www.japanese-art.mcmail.com/Docu/menuki.htm

"Menuki come in pairs and used as a means of grip on the handle of Japanese swords. The menuki are placed underneath the bindings of leather found on the handle."

― koogs (koogs), Monday, 15 November 2004 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)

there is this shop on heburn(sp) near college called the japanese place, that sells dozens of examples of kimonos, obis, the obi clasp, tea sets, sake jars, sushi sets, and other stuff like that.

i thot of you when i saw it.

― anthony, Tuesday, 16 November 2004 06:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I remember coming across a Japanese shop in Barcelona that had lots of martial arts stuff, but all sorts of other little things as well, and spending a happy half hour browsing it.

Yeah, unless they have reshuffled recently I have seen the latest Japanese room setup in the BM - I wrote about it on FT a while back, in fact. The sword parts in those catalogues were seppa, fuchi and especially tsuba, the 3" (or so) wide flat guard part, often inlaid with mother of pearl or gold or lacquerwork. Absolutely beautiful.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 13:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Hey Martin, I note that Bonhams has a sale of (primarily) Japanese art coming up, which you might find interesting, esp given your wealth (noted above). I've quite taken to going to print auctions and it is possible to pick up affordable stuff. Just saying, like.

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 16:01 (twenty-one years ago)

(I'm really sorry about the hentai octopus picture, guys.)
There is a great book you can get at the Victoria and Albert about the Art of the Samurai Sword (I am at work and thus not near by bookcase to check.) It has a section on the tsuba, showing the different styles and carvings.

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 16:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I just realized sgs was talking about this book upthread.

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks Tim - but it seems rather netsuke-dominated for my tastes. I might try to look further at work tomorrow, but it is slow on my dialup at home.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 18:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Just had a better look through it - there are a few nice looking inro at under £1,000, and some very appealing sketchbooks, including a couple by Hokusai - very tempting. I am very inclined to at least go along to a viewing, even though it is probably the case that I would get at least as much pleasure from buying one of the expensive books I have hitherto resisted (you know, that £50-70 art book range) rather than buying one of the objects pictured therein for ten times as much, so I might compromise by doing exactly that.

It seems weird to even consider that I could afford such objects, or that this is an option available to me.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 12:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Just had a look on Amazon, and as well as some very expensive books (like over £200) on inro, tsuba and the like, I found one secondhand book, Japanese Inro, for £13! I am delighted, and look forward to receiving it. Nothing promising there on sword parts.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 13:02 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

ihttp://70.86.201.113/imageserv2/temporary/PBF095ADPrankDragon.jpg

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 14:22 (twenty years ago)

Hokusai-philes, get thee to the Smithsonian Institution.

Plus the cherry blossoms are in bloom and so on.

― Stephen X (Stephen X), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 14:29 (twenty years ago)

YES. I went to the Hokusai exhibit while we were there and immediately forgot my tired feets.

― pixel farmer (Rock Hardy), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 14:33 (twenty years ago)

I went to the Japanese pavillion at LACMA the other day and it was spectacular. Was probably the best & most satisfying time I've ever had a museum.

The Huntington Library just had (maybe it's still there) a really nice bonsai exhibit.

Anyone know where else to go in southern CA to see a good collection of Japanese art?

― Father Brian Eno (Father Brian Eno), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 15:43 (twenty years ago)

Ooh, a chance to pimp my site again: http://www.japanese-arts.net/index.htm. Plenty of Hokusai, inro (under lacquer) and other stuff. I'm reading for the ceramics section now.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 16:12 (twenty years ago)

Maybe to drum up business you should get teh Momus to play Unreliable Tour Guide on your site, Martin.

― The Day The World Turned Dayglo Redd (Ken L), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 16:15 (twenty years ago)

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