Shout-outs, swipes, namechecks and borrowed verses: Hip-hop's cultural memory and rock's apparent lack thereof (x-post w/ILM)

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
It's like this: someone around here recently defended (or whatever, I forget the context...probably ass-fucking) Lloyd Banks' lyrical l33tness by citing "cooler than the other side of your pillow" as evidence, completely unaware of the fact that he bit this from someone else (I forget who). Although, "bit" isn't fair; Lloyd Banks probably assumed that much of his audience would get the reference and give him and each other mental high-fives for being so fucking learn-ed in the Way. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

My question, however, is this: why is the namecheck/shout-out/whatever so prevalent in hip-hop (and jazz, too...) and not rock? Or rather, why does hip-hop encourage and applaud the (re-)citation of obscure (and not so obscure) lyrics/choruses/etc. while rock avoids it? I mean, the only rock song I can think of off-hand (read: 30sec of thought, here) is Built to Spill's "You Were Right." I'm sure there's more (what are they!).

But still: why? Is it even important? Am I totally wrong? How many beers can I pound before someone says the R-word? What's wrong with this horse and why doesn't it move when I hit it with this stick?

Full disclosure: I haven't heard the Lloyd Banks song/lyric in question. I really like hip-hop, but have only recently begun to realize that it's something I would have gone apeshit for as a kid (I grew up in rural MN=no rap). Why? Because I collected comics like some of y'all collect rappers (and all the attendant minutiae). I love the casual display of deep and useless knowledge.

Anyway. Discuss.

giboyeux (skowly), Sunday, 21 November 2004 06:31 (twenty-one years ago)

not surprisingly, there's a lot of this in punk/new wave -- the sex pistols swiped a riff from the jam, the damned and joe jackson stole a lyric from the shangri-la's, bow wow wow stole the bo diddley beat, tons of new wavers stole the "be my baby" beat. sonic youth lifted a lyric AND melody from carole king's "sweet seasons" (haha and if you wanna talk about namechecks, take a look at their song titles).

don't blame me, i voted for buford pusser (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 21 November 2004 09:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I heard "cool as the other side of your pillow" as early as 1987, from a morning DJ. I doubt it can be traced to anywherer,

Kenan (kenan), Sunday, 21 November 2004 09:54 (twenty-one years ago)

(xpost) also, since chris isn't here, i'll go ahead and summon spacemen 3 to thread for him.

don't blame me, i voted for buford pusser (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 21 November 2004 09:56 (twenty-one years ago)

obligatory devo content: their cover of dylan's "you gotta serve somebody" was built around the "contort yourself" disco riff!

don't blame me, i voted for buford pusser (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 21 November 2004 10:15 (twenty-one years ago)

*stereolab channeling neu
*ppl knowing the sex pistols version & being all "wha?" when 'Roadrunner' comes on
*encore covers rule, nuff sed.
*there are at least 16 easily googleable Black Sabbath cover bands.
*I am Damo Suzuki

plus, folk! everyone plays the same trad melodies, everyone reinterprets the murder ballads or the songs of the bards & stuff. reeeeeemiiixxxxx. western culture! copyleft!


where does the beastie boys interpolating the beatles & dylan until the litigation started fit into this? is it rock?

autovac (autovac), Sunday, 21 November 2004 10:28 (twenty-one years ago)

OK I was the one praising banks for the lyric.

I never claimed he invented it. Just a good use of a classic cliche.

His involvement in the creation of the lyric mattered not.

His USE of the lyric, however, was quite ingenious, and on "I'm So Fly" he DID sound cooler than the other side of the pillow.

Finally - as I said in the parallel ILM thread, hip-hop is about as self-referential as jazz - quoting pop songs, other artists, lyrical licks etc. I don't think the rest of pop music is self-referential to the degree that hip-hop and jazz are.

djdee2005 (djdee2005), Sunday, 21 November 2004 10:30 (twenty-one years ago)

and what of Slick Rick's tribute to the Beatle's "Michelle" near the end of "The Show", and why is it absent from any version of "The Show" after the first pressing when it's a pretty fair use?

mucho, Sunday, 21 November 2004 12:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm tangled up in bluuuuue / I only wanna be with yooooooouu

teeny (teeny), Sunday, 21 November 2004 23:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I am Darius Rucker and I don't get this thread at all.

http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/News/9812/07/showbuzz/rucker.jpg

miccio (miccio), Monday, 22 November 2004 00:43 (twenty-one years ago)


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.