Crystal Palace - If You Didn't Know What It Was, What Would You Guess (Motel of the Mysteries Stylee) That It Had Been?

It used to have the biggest adventure playground I've ever seen, it went SO HIGH that children would cry while walking over the highest wobbly bridge. It got so rickety that the top bits would sway in the wind and they dismantled it after the 1987 storms, I think.

I haven't been in years. I might go back this weekend, actually. Its only a bus ride away.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/yourlondon/crystal_palace/galleries/images_a/2.jpg

http://www.library.arizona.edu/branches/architecture/Images2/Crystal%20Palace.jpg

http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/images/bromley/crystal-palace/crystal-palace-00838-640.jpg

I was confused by the big metal contraption which looks like a cross between an alien spaceship, a venus flytrap for eating geese and a theatre. In the middle of a pond. What's that about?

Where are the dinosaurs? Maybe I'll go back there tomorrow. Or Saturday. Can we have a picnic there when the weather gets nice?

It's impossible to judge how big the Spire is, even up close. I love that about it, the scale looks all wonky because it's totally unnatural. I don't think that it's as big as it looks, even though you can see it for miles away, because its groundfall is not that big. really. I don't know. It's a mystery. Like the sphinxes.

x-post, don't spoil it! I know what it used to be. I just like pretending that it's some ruined space civilisation who have left a spire to beam spacerock to the cosmos. Oh yes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/yourlondon/crystal_palace/galleries/images_c/5.jpg

I am totally going this weekend, if it doesn't rain.

Shall we have a last-minute FAP Crystal Palace? I definitely want to go back now, especially if you can show me where the even weirder crap like the dinosaurs are, Matt!

I live in Crystal Palace. But I haven't got time to talk about it now...

x-post again, with Sphinxes.

This always creeped the fuck out me.

Whatever did happen to the photos of Stevem riding the Sphinx?

Let's go back! Saturday or Sunday afternoon!

x-post... that guy is creepy coz it's the ONLY STATUE THAT STILL HAS A HEAD!!! why does he still have a head? Is he a magician? Or is it creepier that NONE OF THE OTHER STATUES HAVE HEADS?!?!?

I can see it from the end of my road. It beckonned me towards it like a beacon from an ancient spacefaring civilisation!

My mum always enjoys telling me that her and me walked all the way to Crystal Palace when I was about four, usually to highlight what a lazy sod I am these days.

There's two telly transmitters if I'm remembering right (and concerning South London, I usually never am) - the one in the Park itself and the one up by All Saints' Church, at the top of the hill that begins the descent unto Selhurst Park and C-R-O-Y-D-O-N. I haven't been to Crystal Palace Park itself in absolutely donkeys' years, and would love to go because I actually could walk home (given our family's various adventures with parking round there - dad likes to take us to Noodle Time or, if it's a particularly special occasion, Lorenzo's - this is probably a good idea). But I'm in Leeds. ARSE.

I was wondering about Noodle Time, I nearly stopped there for lunch! Mmmm!

I liked all the big, scary Victorian mansions along Beulah Hill, now that is very Blakian, that is.

This photo is the greatest thing ever, though...

ihttp://base58.com/pics/_myphotos/0408_london/crystalpalace/tvtowerandsphynx.jpg

(Probably too big to post, though.)

I remember no miniature railway though. Is it one of those rub seaside things?

(I wonder if I would hae enjoyed it as much had it not been so deserted.)

Nostalgia. Crikey.

Though my over-riding memory is watching some Asian gentlemen playing hockey on one of the tarmac pitches then abandoning their game five minutes in to have an all-out brawl instead.

If Bromley Council had got their way there'd be Europe's biggest multiplex with a rooftop carpark with lights "you'd be able to see from Hampstead Heath"* where the Palace stood by now. On a clear day you can see the QE2 bridge at Dartford from the western ridge. Oh, and the view of the City, Gherkin an' all, is glorious (but ever-different, ever-changing) from the top of Gipsy Hill.

(* - slightly hysterical residents' association speak)

For noodles in SE19, try Mu Mu at the junction of Gipsy Hill and Westow Hill. We're almost overburdened with restaurants round here. Quite why Tales Of The Sea (the best chippy in the area) closed so suddenly is a bit of mystery - it's like the Marie Celeste, as pages of newspaper peel from the panes and you can see the salt and vinegar sitting out on the counter.

Most of my lovely Palace park photos need scanning, but here's a few I prepared earlier (about four years ago):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/Pernfors88/PengeEntrance2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/Pernfors88/Icypondsmall.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/Pernfors88/Parklandsmall.jpg

I do love it here. Wildly cheaper than Dulwich or Herne Hill, prettier than Sydenham, livelier than Honor Oak and with Croydon very much at arm's length. And the Pixies' version of "Head On" that June night thirteen years ago still reverberates around the triangle - you can hear Kim think better of singing back-up as you wait to cross Anerley Hill.

Its smaller than I remember it, and the petting zoo appears closed and locked up - presumably all the animals were slaughtered during foot and mouth. It had llamas :(

Before walking round the dinosaur lake, I sat and had a coffee outside the cafe, where we used to eat our packed lunches. The whole place has an eerie sense of the past, strangely out of time but with echoes of a lost childhood.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/runmdc/sphinx2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/runmdc/sphinx4.jpg

EVIL SPHINXES!

The ruins were utterly creepy and deserted. Fear the gaze of the headless statue!

Terrifying giant head thing.

National athletics stadium. Definitely seen better days.

We have better photos, though. Because we crawled all over the SPOOKY ABANDONNED RAILWAY STATION and also I think there might be a photo of me with the antenna shooting out of the top of my head but I have to see if I can get The Spy to delurk long enough to actually post them.

(Also, is the spooky head of Joseph Paxton by the same bloke who did the spooky giant head of Karl Marx in Highgate?)

http://photos9.flickr.com/12380477_04184943aa.jpg

For many reasons - geographical, transportational, architectural, whimsical - I'm seriously thinking of moving to Crystal Palace in the next month or so. Please tell me why this is a brilliant/terrible idea.

+ it is a great place to live
- everyone else has the same idea as you

It's really lovely, Charlie, but, as Blueski says, I think it's reached some kind of critical mass of appeal, where it's not just folks priced out of Dulwich/Herne Hill or sizing-up from Brixton/Camberwell that are flocking here, but people from all over London (this is purely anecdotal, btw, based on three couples I know moving into the neighbourhood - after relentless pro-SE19 propaganda from me).

I guess this means rental properties (if that's what you're after) becoming harder to come by. There's a heck of a lot of converting going on - squeezing six dwellings into a Victorian corner house, that sort of thing.

I've been here for nearly 8 years now.

What are the night buses like to Crystal Palace? Considering the amount of gigging and clubbing you seem to do, it may be tricky to get back to in the small hours.

N2 (Traf Sq-Victoria-Vauxhall-Stockwell-Brixton-Tulse Hill)
N3 (Oxford Circ-Traf Sq-Millbank-Kennington-Brixton-Herne Hill...carries on to Bromley, so don't nod off!)
N63 (St Panc-Kings X-Farringdon-Elephant-Peckham-Sydenham Hill)
N137 (Oxford Circ-Hyde Park Corner-Knightsbridge-Battersea Pk-Clapham Common-Streatham Hill)

Also, the N68 (TCR-Coulsdon/Croydon, via Camberwell), which doesn't touch the Palace Triangle but does skirt SE19.

There may be another one, not sure. Only the 3 of the above has a regular daytime version that still runs all the way into town; the 2 is now split into 2/432, the 63 into 63/363, the 137 is 137/417 and the 68 has loads of variants, including the X68, which is express from West Norwood to Waterloo in rush hour and used to be my favoured commuting route.

This is splendid knowledge, people! Thank you.

I'm planning to flatshare for a bit, with a view towards buying er prolly next year now. I've already found some potentially nice places to rent, although that's on tinterweb rather than irl.

After-hours transport is an issue right now, I've no doubt, but what with the Orange Line doing its thang soonish I'm not too bothered about a bit of inconvenience in the short term.

Also, I'm gigging less than I used to, fo sho.

Michael, are there any areas I should avoid if possible?

that gipsy hill can be quite a trek

Still feelin' the burn from 2003, eh, Mand?

Charlie: I don't know if you mean rough-wise or amenities-wise; like practically everywhere in London, the pre-war housing stock is cheek-by-jowl with the '60s estate boxes, and those yellow police signs pop up occasionally to remind everyone that we're not living in some sleepy village. I've seen one street robbery in 8 years here and have never felt threatened (Pam's feelings are not quite the same and other ILXors have been the victims of car theft...). Oh, we did get pelted with eggs by some kids the day we viewed our first flat but patently that didn't put us off.

As Mandee says, it's very hilly, and the further away from the Triangle (Westow Street/Westow Hill/Church Road) you are, the more ordinary-suburban it gets, and if you happen to be down a hill, then the sense of isolation is even greater. We've always sort of discounted living down Anerley Hill, Spa Hill or Gipsy Hill for that reason. The area to the south-west of CP station (bounded by South Norwood Lakes, the railway and Church Street) is probably the most swish and prettiest but also contains some of the worst gradients.

We live in what the estate agents avoid calling Norwood New Town - a little enclave of '50s/'60s houses a little to the north-west of the Triangle (formerly a network of inter-war terraced streets - quite unlike the rest of middle-class Upper Norwood - damaged in the blitz and then redeveloped).

I don't want to oversell the place - it's just another SE London suburb, we're not talking Highgate or St John's Wood - but it's got great views over the city.

I'm willing to bet that the existing overground to London Bridge will still be quicker than the Orange Line, unless you're trying to get to Whitechapel or Shoreditch. Depends how frequent the trains are, and how late, of course.

It's basically the same route with the same stops but for the section north of New Cross Gate, isn't it? So there's no way the ELL will be a quicker way to get into town, just a quicker way into the East End. I suspect overground London Bridge frequency will suffer.

London Bridge to Gypsy Hill direct at weekends is still not happening is it?

It's only Sundays that doesn't run. There is a Saturday service which runs as frequently (but perhaps not as late) as Mon-Fri. Victoria service is half-hourly on Sundays.

Of course, all this is subject to engineering works, of which there seem to be a lot. Usually on a weekend when we're trying to lure North London types to our house.

Years ago, Steady Mike said:

Quite why Tales Of The Sea (the best chippy in the area) closed so suddenly is a bit of mystery - it's like the Marie Celeste, as pages of newspaper peel from the panes and you can see the salt and vinegar sitting out on the counter. [...] Wildly cheaper than Dulwich or Herne Hill, prettier than Sydenham, livelier than Honor Oak and with Croydon very much at arm's length. And the Pixies' version of "Head On" that June night thirteen years ago still reverberates around the triangle - you can hear Kim think better of singing back-up as you wait to cross Anerley Hill.

and I have never even read these classic Jonesian posts till now! I am uncertain why he disguised the names of all the restaurants upthread: possibly as a joke about disguising things' names? Or did he just not want irate restaurateurs (that is a tough word to type, or even to say) posting to the thread and threatening him?

Well, yeah, I don't suppose there are very many Google hits for some of those restaurant names, and I don't particularly want my sub-sub-sub-Meadesian (imagine how well-subbed that would be) impressions of them popping up on page 1 of a web search. Especially as I already refrain from posting to V1rtual N0rw00d (aka SE19 Curtain Twitchers) as I may have to see these people around.

Something to do with keeping a (virtual) distance from the things (actually) closest to you.

Meades actually wrote a quasi-Jonesian review of Num1d13!: http://www.numidie.co.uk/saturdaytimes.htm

I wonder if Num1d13 closed its doors the evening of the 2006 World Cup final? Or if Marc Almond would (a) get a discount, (b) be refused entry?

Charlie: I don't know if you mean rough-wise or amenities-wise

I meant rough-wise, but you've kindly anticipated and more than answered any follow-on questions that would inevitably have followed. I'm currently in Bow, so I'd assume it's relatively less EDGY than E3, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

I'd sort of assumed the hilliness, since one of the chief attractions for me is CP's commanding altitude. I guess the best thing to do is show up and have a good walk around, which I'm doing a bit of tonight as I'm seeing a potential flatshare place.

CP is a lot nicer, and less rough, than Bow.

I can't actually tell what Mike's specially encoded words say, but the name of Stevie's link tells us one outright. It reminds me of Merritt's conceit of having a song that narrowly avoids using lots of obscenities, followed by one with an obscenity in the first line.

Crikey, that Meades review is pungent and rich. I had no idea that the Times website looked like that!

Why didn't I buy there instead of Streatham? Oh yeah, the hospital catchement areas.

Christ, Kate, you make it sound like SE19 residents get a blacksmith in lieu of a surgeon!

No, I was in a specific program at the time, attached to a specific hospital, and would have had to get back in an interminable waiting list had I moved.

The pubs aren't great in Palace; there are six or seven on the Triangle and I'd probably only bother with the White Hart and even that isn't up to much. Railway Bell, two-thirds of the way down Gipsy Hill, is nice and the Dulwich Wood Tavern is really good but that's a good 20min walk from the shops.

Current and former Palatians, would you agree?

Mike, what about that cosy-looking one on the main road (Westow Street?), not far from Threshers etc - I have always thought it might be a nice spot for a pint.

The Gipsy Hill Tav is valiantly trying to pitch itself a bit further upmarket, with a couple of tv chefs doing food at the weekends and the comedy nights. I can't see it shaking the resident StuporBrewCrew though. I have never been in Patrick's, that Irish bar - apparently they had/have a door policy which seems a bit stiff. Supposedly the Cambridge is now a gay pub - well it has an optimistic rainbow flag outside - but nobody seems to have told the regulars. The basement bar in Num1d13 has its fans but seemed a bit dank to me. I have never had a drink in the Alma, but supposedly the guitarist from Piano Magic does a regular music night there!

Royal Albert? It's OK - I did spend Xmas Eve in there one year. The old geezers' boozers are that one, the Cambridge and the Hollybush but none of them are that welcoming. Then there's the Alma (live music), the White Hart (formerly a fairly bad Irish theme pub), whatever the Occasional Half is now, whatever the Bluebottle is now (loud music, expensive lager), the Black Sheep (no tellies, more of a wine bar vibe), some new Irish bar... You can tell I don't go out much.

I've probably seen Everton lose in most of these places, so that taints them a bit.

xp!

I'm amazed at Stevie's intimate knowledge all these drinkeries, as he only lived in CP for 7 and a half minutes.

There is a pub on the bus route to CP with a funny mis-spelled name involving half or halves, but I can't ever think what it is. The Two Half's, or something?

So I visited two properties in Forest Hill last night - seems very similar in feel to what's recently been said about CP. Quite hilly, wild variation in housing stock, hardly any decent pubs etc. Nice enough though!

I like Forest Hill (especially the Honor Oak end) but it doesn't have the little self-contained hub of the Palace Triangle. Plus, you can actually get a seat on rush-hour trains out here! By Forest Hill, they're packing them in like sardines.

We did almost move to Forest Hill in late 2005 when our Palace house move nearly feel through, or at least we viewed places and thought about making offers. Nunhead too. Just that bit too expensive though.

I very nearly moved to Forest Hill too: I would recommend it.

a lot of almosts and nearlys in there!

i've expressed a firm interest in both flatshares - the £230pcm rent on one of them is only part of its boundless appeal...

Blimey, did you step through a portal in time to get there?