Iraq 2005

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Suicide Bombers, Gunmen Kill 32 in Iraq

Sun Jan 2,12:21 PM ET Top Stories - Reuters

By Matt Spetalnick

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Suicide car bombers hit a bus packed with Iraqi National Guards on Sunday, killing 26 people in the deadliest attack of its kind in four months on Iraqis cooperating with U.S. forces to secure a Jan. 30 election.

Two insurgents in an explosives-laden vehicle veered into the path of the bus and blew it up outside a U.S. military base near the town of Balad, north of Baghdad.
Hours later, guerrillas killed three policemen on patrol close to neighboring Samarra, and shot dead a member of the city's governing council as well as his driver and bodyguard.
The attacks in the Sunni heartland, where loyalty to deposed dictator Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) runs deep, were the latest targeting Iraq (news - web sites)'s fledgling security forces and government officials in a bloody campaign to scare voters away from the polls.
A National Guard officer said the car bomb killed 25 soldiers on the way to their posts. Relatives wept over the men's bodies at a local mosque. "My son, my son," one man wailed as he clutched at a wooden coffin.
A civilian bystander also died in the blast.
U.S. and Iraqi officials ushered in the New Year with warnings of an expected spike in pre-election assaults by Sunni insurgents trying to drive out U.S.-led forces and topple Iraq's government

"Those responsible for this attack ... are trying to prevent democracy in Iraq," said Major Neal O'Brien, a military spokesman in Tikrit. "They will not be successful."
But in a sign that the campaign of intimidation was having an effect, an election organizing committee in the northern Sunni city of Baiji quit en masse after receiving death threats.
On Saturday, the Al Qaeda Organization of Holy War in Iraq led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi released a video of five Iraqi security men being shot dead in the street.
A statement posted on an Islamist Web site along with the video vowed that the group would "slaughter" other Iraqis it brands collaborators with foreign occupiers.


OK! here we go again. Are the insurgents the same as the guerrilas? And, if so, are they Iraqis? In which case, are they insurgents? I mean, i guess an armed resistance to an occupation can be called an insurgency. or perhaps it is revolutionary war.

Why the fuck are we there? What the fuck are we doing? What is the point?
I'm still coming back to the naive place wherein there is a reason for manmade destruction.

aimurchie, Sunday, 2 January 2005 22:46 (twenty years ago)

I just finished reading George Friedman's America's Secret War -- he's the feller behind the Stratfor website, which I've often referred to in past posts and discussions. Excellent book in terms of summarizing how we got to where we did by mid-year last year, and he'd be the first to note that it's already somewhat outdated but not by much.

That said, the general picture he painted, while not out and out bleak, had concerns. As always refreshingly free of cant (though I'd be interested in a closer study of his general rhetoric to see *why* this is so), he identified the basics of the current problem as:

1) More than oil, more than human rights, what the US wanted post-9/11 in Iraq at all costs was a major set of bases in the Middle East in order to ensure al-Qaeda could never again establish formal presence in a country, and to act as a rapid response force to further threats, while no longer being beholden to Saudi Arabia -- indeed, to specifically bring force to bear on them as needed

2) At numerous points over the past two years, the US seemed to be fairly well set in terms of having achieved this in concert with working out some sort of government in Iraq that would be amenable to this situation.

3) Due to various events, many either within US control or potentially allowable by them and not acted on, but also due to other factors as well, the US has been unable to establish the full sense of stability necessary to allow for reason 1 to fully kick in

His summary was such:

The United States is therefore facing the worst possible dilemma in warfare. It has achieved critical strategic goals in its campaign, but it does not have the ability to close out that campaign. As the campaign drags on, the strategic gains are jeapordized. If the campaign is lost, not only will the strategic benefits be lost, but substantial additional ground will be lost as well. Therefore, the US cannot retreat and cannot win militarily. Its only option is political - to put together a coalition of forces in Iraq powerful enough to govern the country and willing to collaborate with the US. A war dependent on political arrangements is a war in jeopardy. It is easier to shape the battlefield than an Iraqi political consensus.

His further conclusion in a web-only final chapter to the book, written and published in October of last year, concluded that at that time, seen as a general US-al-Qaeda struggle, al-Qaeda as concept and organization was losing. A core part of that argument:

Strategically, the United States appears to have a well thought-out approach that makes the most of a very
weak hand. The trend lines are satisfactory, particularly considering where they started. We suspect that very
few people on September 12, 2001, would have thought that the situation would be as well contained today as
it is. Apart from a low but tolerable level of violence in Iraq, the broader war has evolved very much in favor
of the United States. This is partly due to the nature of the war and partly due to the strategic and operational
choices made by the administration.

Politically, the administration has acted with massive incompetence. Its failure to give a plausible defense
to a policy that can certainly be defended is amazing. Instead, the administration has stumbled through a
series of untenable and incoherent justifications for its actions until the political foundations of its war plans
have been undermined. From WMD to democratizing Iraq, the administration has constantly undermined its
own credibility.

This has substantial strategic consequences. The best strategy in the world cannot be executed by a nation
that doesn’t believe in it. Believing in a strategy requires that you believe in the leaders. And leaders who
constantly invent indefensible justifications for the strategy are incapable of executing that strategy.

The war is at a strange crossroads, for which we find few precedents. The broader war is certainly
moving in favor of the United States. The Iraq campaign has problems, but none that present a strategic
challenge to the broader war or to even the Iraq campaign itself. The enemy has failed to achieve any of its
goals and seems incapable of mounting a serious attack at this point. The war is not over and it is not won, but
the United States is ahead on points.

Now, his take has probably changed yet again over the last few months -- it was written and published pre-November election, for instance -- but I think it's not unreasonable to take it on board. I'd be interested in hearing what our own strategic George, Mr. Smith, thinks about this take (and/or Stratfor in general, if that has any bearing on the situation).

As it stands, this will be an interesting month but an even more interesting time is what follows, whatever it might be.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 2 January 2005 23:18 (twenty years ago)

The thing is, has anyone ever seriously thought the United States could lose to al-Qaeda? That's what's always been so absurd about the idea of this being a "war," much less the Defining Struggle of Our Time, or whatever nincompoops like Instapundit call it. Are we going to have madrasas in Colorado Springs? Burqas in Bloomingdales? It's an insane way to look at the whole thing. The bigger, broader questions are about the ongoing realignments of power in a new global economic order and whether the massive inequalities of education, resources and opportunity can be addressed in a way that marginalizes fanatics and revolutionaries rather than empowers them. On those counts, we're failing miserably.

Meanwhile, James Wolcott has a depressing summary of an article in The Economist. Call it "Hearts and Minds, Part 47."

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Sunday, 2 January 2005 23:58 (twenty years ago)

The thing is, has anyone ever seriously thought the United States could lose to al-Qaeda?

Loss in terms of "And now the State of the Union Address by Bin Laden," no, but that was never the intent.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 January 2005 00:05 (twenty years ago)

yes it was! overwhelmingly that's how the rhetoric has framed the intent: a war on "terror" as a state, not as a function of ideology, which to some degree is always a function of economics. check all the speeches, press releases, etc., and you'll get the same definition of the enemy that has been used by the U.S. since WWII (and before, of course): a group of people raised to the abstract plane of an evil force, having a directly antagonistic effect, usually geographically defined (Bush's axis of evil, for instance), and portrayed as threatening to Everytown, U.S.A. (hence every single "security" measure taken by the administration, all of which are remnants from Cold War thinking).

fauxhemian (fauxhemian), Monday, 3 January 2005 00:15 (twenty years ago)

You must excuse me -- that was never the intent of *al-Qaeda,* however much BushCo would have it otherwise.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 January 2005 00:16 (twenty years ago)

Ned - oh my, I thought you were kidding.

"More than oil, more than human rights, what the US wanted post-9/11 in Iraq at all costs was a major set of bases in the Middle East in order to ensure al-Qaeda could never again establish formal presence in a country, and to act as a rapid response force to further threats, while no longer being beholden to Saudi Arabia -- indeed, to specifically bring force to bear on them as needed"

Failed. There were no insurgents, nor any al-Qaeda factions in Iraq before we invaded. The invasion and occupation has fueled the insurgency - and been a major factor in recruitment for al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda isn't even a group . It's a constantly evolving network. But let's keep yelling al-Qaeda since we can't spell it or pronounce it.

2)At numerous points over the past two years, the US seemed to be fairly well set in terms of having achieved this in concert with working out some sort of government in Iraq that would be amenable to this situation.

3) Due to various events, many either within US control or potentially allowable by them and not acted on, but also due to other factors as well, the US has been unable to establish the full sense of stability necessary to allow for reason 1 to fully kick in.

Don't even tell me you give this any credence. When, exactly, were we on the verge of "working out some government in Iraq". Did I miss that?
of course, #3 I completely agree with. Due to circumstances beyond our control the situation became an occupation that seems like an ongoing war. it's unfortunate that the plan didn't take in the citizens - who are now fucking pissed off.

aimurchie, Monday, 3 January 2005 00:55 (twenty years ago)

I think you're missing out on something here -- I am NOT George Friedman, as I would think was obvious. I was summarizing his observations, and while there is a part of me which favors looking at everything in realpolitik terms because that way I keep my sanity, it is not all of me -- as I trust my many posts on this subject have made clear. It is no contradiction in terms to look at this situation as Friedman and others might as well as looking at it in terms of it being a grinding example of the war machine at horrendous play, and I'd resent the idea that I could not look at it in these and other ways as well, frankly.

Friedman is not arguing that al-Qaeda was in Iraq -- rather that in the judgment of the US government there is a need to secure and operate bases in the Middle East for response against al-Qaeda in the area, as it might arise. That I find this analysis interesting and worthy of consideration does not make me a pro-war hawk, thank you very much, and I am not about to quote the entire book to go into the full details of his analysis.

Now this said, let me quote again something from Friedman I noted above:

[The US's] only option is political - to put together a coalition of forces in Iraq powerful enough to govern the country and willing to collaborate with the US. A war dependent on political arrangements is a war in jeopardy. It is easier to shape the battlefield than an Iraqi political consensus.

It seems to me this is *exactly* accurate, whatever else you might think of the buildup to the current time, and no matter your political inclinations.

I should also note this, quoting from Friedman at the end of the book extensively:

The weakness of the US is not our soldiers, nor their numbers, but the vast distance that separates American leaders from those who fight. From government officials to media moguls to finance powerbrokers, few members of the leadership class have children who are at war. To them, the soldiers are alien, people they have never met and don't understand. When the children of the leaders stay home, the leaders think about war in unfortunate ways. As the most powerful nation in the world, we will be fighting many wars. A ruling class that sends the children of others to fight, but not their own, cannot sustain its power for very long.

This has two consequences. The elite, aware of their own timidity, project that trait on the American people and assume it is a national trait. And in a paradox, since the elite do not have to send their children to fight the enemy, they tend to badly underestimate the enemy at the beginning of our wars -- and overestimate them later. To truly appreciate the situation requires that one judge oneself and the enemy as coldly and dispassionately as possible.

Friedman, I should note, observes at the start of the book that he has children serving in the armed forces. His interest in this entire situation is hardly abstract.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 January 2005 01:11 (twenty years ago)

Also, one further clarification:

When, exactly, were we on the verge of "working out some government in Iraq". Did I miss that?

My exact words were "seemed to be" -- not "is." That the perception of it 'seeming to be' was that of the US gov't where we might have had some doubts here is important, I'd think.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 January 2005 01:14 (twenty years ago)

I never accused you of quoting Friedman as if it were your own beliefs.
The last part, as you have quoted, is very moving and apt.
Most of what you quoted previously is quite provocative, and I responded in kind.
I don't know you. I can only assume that you are approaching this from an entirely intellectual level.
Emotionally, it sucks.
As Friedman points out, in a way, war is always emotional.
If only we could have it be just like a chess game. I would like that too.

aimurchie, Monday, 3 January 2005 01:27 (twenty years ago)

Is it OK to read your posts and not comment on every detail? I'm sure Friedman has some good points - many of which you have shared. But i still don't think we(u.s.) should have invaded Iraq, and i still think the war we are fighting is bad for both sides.
The best thing we could have done is to embrace the international feeling after 9/11 and turn that into an advantage.
Isolationism will get us nowhere. And the U.S. is going to pay an economic price for it.
Al-qaueda is not in one country. it's everywhere and nowhere. The more you talk about it, the more powerful it becomes.

aimurchie, Monday, 3 January 2005 01:44 (twenty years ago)

Is it OK to read your posts and not comment on every detail?

Of course. If anything, I reacted badly to the assumption that I was 'kidding.' I am not interested in kidding about death.

While I fully understand about wanting things to be different, we still have to deal with what is currently happening now. And that meant that those assumptions made by the administration -- those biases, those new conclusions, etc. -- have to be confronted. We may violently disagree with them but we cannot ignore the fact that they were put into place, and we cannot turn back the clock.

FWIW, Friedman is extremely critical about the reactions by the government to what al-Qaeda is and what it means on 9/11 and afterwards -- that they had to get to grips with the idea that this was not a country being conquered -- but that they are learning. His argument is not that the US is fighting or can fight a 'normal' war with al-Qaeda, but that more open and public actions are signifiers as to what might be happening instead. It's an argument well worth keeping in mind, no matter how much it might be hateful to consider.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 January 2005 01:58 (twenty years ago)

The game-in-play in Iraq has always been political, not military. Everyone knew we could march into Bagdad whenever we decided to try. What matters is what we make of Iraq under our authority. The bases we will build in Iraq will not be worth spit if we must maintain 150,000 troops to subjugate Iraq for the next decade in order to keep them open and functioning.

As of today, the US military does not even know who their enemy is in Iraq. In very fundamental ways they are blind and deaf. That explains the rapid resort to torture in the quest for intelligence. We are losing, not because the enemy is so diabolically clever, but because the BushCo leadership caught its dick in a set of very stupid miscalculations from the very start.

The size of the army needed to succeed could only be provided by a US military draft. The reasons for this war were oversold from the start, then they became an ever-shifting pea in a shell game. BushCo never wanted to spend the time building a case for war that wouldn't fall down at the first whiff of reality. They calculated that once the country was herded into it, they'd stick it out rather than cut our losses and back away when it became obvious we had fucked up.

BushCo's stated war aims are still as bogus as a three dollar bill. The volunteer forces have been hung out to dry. It is totally FUBAR.

Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 3 January 2005 02:03 (twenty years ago)

The game-in-play in Iraq has always been political, not military. Everyone knew we could march into Bagdad whenever we decided to try. What matters is what we make of Iraq under our authority. The bases we will build in Iraq will not be worth spit if we must maintain 150,000 troops to subjugate Iraq for the next decade in order to keep them open and functioning.

I agree about the bases in particular -- the mere fact of building them and maintaining them implies the personnel commitment on a regular basis.

I am reluctant to be Friedman's mouthpiece here if there's going to be misunderstanding -- and again, I'd love to hear/read more commentary from others involved in this whole thing, thus my call to Mr. Smith if he's reading this thread. Still, there is an interesting confluence here in that what Aimless is saying here:

The reasons for this war were oversold from the start, then they became an ever-shifting pea in a shell game. BushCo never wanted to spend the time building a case for war that wouldn't fall down at the first whiff of reality. They calculated that once the country was herded into it, they'd stick it out rather than cut our losses and back away when it became obvious we had fucked up.

...is pretty much what Friedman says in different language, namely that there's no question that the reasons provided were not the reasons intended, and that a foot in the door had to be established by BushCo to carry out its goals. And thus do power politics play havoc with our lives.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 January 2005 02:17 (twenty years ago)

Dear Ned
I should just read the damn thing.
I am always open to learning - but, I must admit, I will never understand this particular invasion, war and occupation.
As I said, you are being intellectual and I am reacting emotionally.
I guess my latent hippie earth mother side is coming out. Maybe because I'm so angry about the U.S. response to the tsunami? I'm so pissed off that I only make sense to myself.
There is no excuse for kiilling people in order to stake a claim for democracy. It's a stake for capitalism, which is not democracy.And when you put charismatic Christianity and capitalist democracy together you have - imperialism.
Maybe i should modernize. But i can't. My heart still believes that MY idea of democracy is valid.
I'm a fool.


aimurchie, Monday, 3 January 2005 02:21 (twenty years ago)

What are you talking about? You are most certainly not foolish. Stick to what you believe, that is vitally important.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 January 2005 02:38 (twenty years ago)

My main comment is this: Friedman's idea that the intention behind the US invasion was to have a strong set of bases that would help fight the so-called war on terror sounds perfectly plausible to me. Friedman's statement that a policy of invading another country and killing its citizens for this end is perfectly justifiable is totally off the planet. It is wrong to hurt bystanders no matter low badly you've been hurt yourself.

Now, a policy to affect a series of relatively peaceful and organic transformations to democracy in the region I would strongly favour.

plebian plebs (plebian), Monday, 3 January 2005 05:22 (twenty years ago)

I don't even know Ned (well I've been half-lurking here for long enough to "know" him a bit), but re-reading the thread, he's clearly one of the best people in the world.

plebian plebs (plebian), Monday, 3 January 2005 05:24 (twenty years ago)

Friedman's statement that a policy of invading another country and killing its citizens for this end is perfectly justifiable is totally off the planet.

I think we have to be extremely careful here -- lines like 'the United States appears to have a well thought-out approach that makes the most of a very weak hand' certainly aren't fully condemnatory of what's been done but don't strike me as ringing endorsements either (I note also the use of the word 'appears' instead of 'has'). I would say that the word 'justifiable' is less applicable than 'understandable' -- and NOT in the sense of acceptance, but in the sense that given the forces in play such results and actions could occur.

Keep in mind Friedman's impassioned but controlled description regarding American elites vs. American soldiers above -- he is consciously trying to look at this through a distanced point of view, as if playing a game of Risk. That's both a stylistic and a content decision which is tricky to manage but I think it's easy to see why he's doing that as well.

And thank you for the kind words -- one does try, however conscious one might be failures.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 January 2005 05:46 (twenty years ago)

Might be? Might HAVE failures.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 January 2005 05:48 (twenty years ago)

Friedman's idea that the intention behind the US invasion was to have a strong set of bases that would help fight the so-called war on terror sounds perfectly plausible to me.

Sorta. That idea really preceded the "war on terror." You can find it implicit if not explicit in the policy papers that the New American Century gang wrote in the '90s. They knew Saudi Arabia wasn't a good longterm solution, because the U.S. presence there was causing problems for the Saudi royals and giving the Islamists a handy rallying point. So getting rid of Saddam and creating in his stead a nice, stable, free-market ally (with a buttload of oil) that would allow us military access -- putting the squeeze on Syria to one side and Iran to the other -- well, it was the best of all possible worlds. So the desire for military bases in Iraq waaaaaaaay predates Sept. 11. That just provided the pretext.

Now if only their ideas about how all this would work had been right, and if only their execution of their plans hadn't been utterly, bogglingly incompetent -- if, in other words, the world we live in happened to be the one they fantasize about -- then we'd all be drinking tamarind martinis in Ramadi.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Monday, 3 January 2005 06:17 (twenty years ago)

Good points -- I did somewhat oversimplify in that Friedman mentions that such ideas were bubbling pre-9/11, so he's not unaware of that, while the further points you outline are also discussed in the book.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 January 2005 06:20 (twenty years ago)

When Iraq finally holds elections and is "self-governing", does that mean that this officially becomes a civil war?

Girolamo Savonarola, Monday, 3 January 2005 06:22 (twenty years ago)

I like that number because there's no actual way to count it. "Yeah, we did a roll call at the last meeting..."

The import of it is clear enough, however. Bombings, mostly against Iraq forces but also against Americans, are happening daily, and then there's this little problem:

Baghdad governor Ali al-Haidri has been shot dead in a roadside ambush in the Iraqi capital, the highest-profile assassination there since May.

Attackers shot at his armoured-plated car from different directions as his convoy drove through northern Baghdad.

Violence has been escalating ahead of elections planned for 30 January.

In separate incidents, at least 10 people are killed in a blast in Baghdad while attacks across the country claim the lives of five US soldiers.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 16:59 (twenty years ago)

I think one of the most important things to notice about the Iraq insurgency is that, in spite of continuous attempts of the Bush administration to paint it as a terrorist campaign, the vast majority of the attacks are on legitimate military assets, such as American military convoys or bases, Iraqi 'police' stations, Iraqi army recruitment centers, high government officials and oil pipelines.

The spectacular assasination of civilian figures like Margaret Hassan are obviously not at the center of the insurgency's strategy and most likely have been carried out by al-Qaeda terrorist cells that are completely separate from the main insurgency and numerically insignifigant in comparison. The main insurgency is military in character, well-planned, strategically sophisticated and designed to result in a complete military victory over US and British forces. They seem to be doing a bang-up job so far.

My guess is that by next September the Bush strategy will be strained to the breaking point by the weight of its complete failure to achieve any of its objectives. The key question is troop strength - boots on the ground. The Bush administration will not solve this problem because it has no political solution to it. Instead, it will drastically increase the level of spending in Iraq, hoping for a technical solution. They'll also be hiring a lot more mercenaries. The level of violence will escalate, as will the number of atrocities, but not the chances for success. Hello to Rumsfeld's "long hard slog."

The only other viable outcome I can foresee would be if the Bushies get bright for a change, declare a "victory for democracy" after the elections and pull out as rapidly as possible under the covering fire of a hail of public relations flack. I do not believe there is any way Bush can get a military draft through Congress.

Aimless (Aimless), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 17:56 (twenty years ago)

Fun!

The Pentagon says that more than 10,000 US military personnel have been wounded in Iraq since the conflict began in March 2003.

Newly published figures show that more than 5,000 of the wounded have been unable to return to duty.

Many have been left with serious injuries such as lost limbs and sight, mostly as a result of the blast effects of roadside bombs.

And these are just the injuries we can see.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 17:32 (twenty years ago)

at this point, we'll either have conscription in early 2007, or a complete retreat to the 14 bases there and open civil war within a year's time.

kingfish (Kingfish), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 18:11 (twenty years ago)

The only other viable outcome I can foresee would be if the Bushies get bright for a change, declare a "victory for democracy" after the elections and pull out as rapidly as possible under the covering fire of a hail of public relations flack. I do not believe there is any way Bush can get a military draft through Congress..

I think this is exactly right & your post generally, although I would have put more emphasis on the fact that the insurgents are in large measure Iraqis who oppose the occupation for patriotic reasons. Have Bush/Blair even read any Shakespeare? Because if they had they would have realised that government by brutal dictatorship does not dilute patriotism in the way they imagine and will not result in a foreign occupation being anything other than hugely and violently resented. (Imagine the Shakespeare play in which, say, an occupying foreign army is welcomed as liberators by the Yeomen of England because Richard III is a usurper and brutal tyrant: just to entertain the idea reveals the idiocy of of the Bush/Blair analysis).

Getting out now would almost certainly be the least bad outcome. The problem is the bizarre paradox that Bush/Blair would now be held much more responsible for bloodshed following their withdrawal than for bloodshed during their continuing occupation. That (and not minimisation of bloodshed) is the political reason why the occupation will continue.

Incidentally I think Friedman's analysis is far from realpolitik. Realpolitik would recognise, as Bush does not ( and Friedman falls into the same trap) that a threat to individual Americans is not the same as a threat to the American state. Only the latter would have justified the war Bush has undertaken. Al Qaeda does *not* represent such a threat, however grandiose its claims. Making all American citizens safe from potential terrorism is not an achievable goal of any government and to pursue it at the cost of 100,000 plus civilian lives in Iraq is mad.

frankiemachine, Wednesday, 5 January 2005 19:50 (twenty years ago)

Aimless' post is wonderful, and really illustrates the difference between insurgency and terrorism. What bothered me in the first press report i pasted on this thread - the press willingness to say insurgent and guerilla in the same breath - may have been an overreaction, but insurgent sounds more neutral than guerrila.
I still need to read Friedman (Ned!) and want to - I ordered it at the library.
My gut reaction, every day, is that I, personally, as a citizen, cannot understand what we are doing in Iraq. I am offended by the idea of terrorism terrorizing me.
What if i want the insurgents to win? I should probably be deported.
I feel like we fucked with an infrastructure, destroyed it, and are paying for many mistakes.
Outsourcing jobs, instead of building a system that employed Iraqis was a mistake.
Not having high level and mid-level military personnel who speak the language was a mistake.
Taking over the compound of Sadaam and making it into a new fortress was a mistake.
Lacking respect for mosques was a mistake.
Much of it is symbolic, but nonetheless carries weight with citizens who become insurgents as they are constantly ignored within the occupation.
I'm glad to see people discussing this here, still. I learn a lot every time I read your posts.

aimurchie, Wednesday, 5 January 2005 22:37 (twenty years ago)

What if i want the insurgents to win? I should probably be deported.

Noooo...but if you do actually want the insurgents to "win," I'd be interested to hear what you mean by that. I mean, of the various groups contending for influence and power in post-invasion Iraq, I'm not sure the ones massacring civilians on a regular basis are the guys to cheer for. In some ways, the current short-term American goals do make sense (and it's worth remembering how drastically different those goals are now from what was originally envisioned, because the new short-term goals have been shaped by reality rather than neo-con nonsense -- or, at least, they represent a compromise between reality and neo-con nonsense). A drawn-out civil war in Iraq is a losing proposition for everyone, most especially the people who live there. So somehow a new balance of power has to emerge that gives the Shiites and ayatollahs enough power to be happy, but also protect the interests and dignity of the Sunni clans (and the demands for self-rule from the Kurds, of course). That may actually be an impossible equation, given the circumstances. In fact, I think it is impossible, and there might not be any way to avoid protracted violence. There are too many people now with an interest in a certain level of permanent instability, plus this has spillover in Syria, Iran and Turkey that is only going to get more pronounced as time goes by. So I'm not saying there's a good answer. But my disgust with the entire American operation there does not translate into any kind of sympathy or support for whatever constitutes the insurgency. Those motherfuckers are killing innocent people every single day. They rank at the bottom of my list of Iraqis who I want to see emerge from all of this in positions of influence.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Thursday, 6 January 2005 00:56 (twenty years ago)

What Gypsy has said, pretty much. There is no point in cheering on the 'insurgency,' whatever it is -- the overall goal should be *less* death, not more.

Meanwhile, some individual dumbassness:

An Iraqi civilian has testified that US soldiers forced him and his cousin to jump into the River Tigris and laughed as his relative was swept to his death.

"He was calling my name, said: 'Help me! Help me!'" Marwan Fadel Hassoun told a military trial in Texas.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 6 January 2005 04:13 (twenty years ago)

Meanwhile...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51687-2005Jan5.html

He also said the Army is relying too much on "volunteers" from the Reserve force rather than requiring individuals or units to serve. This threatens "to distort the very nature of service" and tends to draw those who "enjoy lesser responsible positions in civilian life," he wrote. He sounded especially incensed about the current practice of paying volunteers an extra $1,000 a month, saying this sets a precedent and risks blurring the line between "volunteer" and "mercenary."

This part really caught my eye.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Thursday, 6 January 2005 05:32 (twenty years ago)

Nobody is going to win. That's what bothers me.

aimurchie, Thursday, 6 January 2005 08:17 (twenty years ago)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=542&e=4&u=/ap/20050107/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/reserves
WASHINGTON - Stretched thin by the wars in Iraq (news - web sites) and Afghanistan (news - web sites), the Army is considering a National Guard and Reserve policy shift that could result in part-timers being called to active duty multiple times for up to two years each time, a senior Army official said Thursday.

[...]

One reason that the National Guard and Reserve have been used so heavily over the past three years is that the active-duty Army is too small to meet the demands of war — particularly in Iraq, where troop levels have far exceeded original predictions — while also maintaining a presence in traditional areas of influence such as Europe and the Korean peninsula.


The Army now has about 660,000 troops on active duty, of which about 160,000 are members of the Guard and Reserve.


The Army wants them to be eligible for an unlimited number of call-ups, so long as no single mobilization lasts more than 24 months, the official said...


kingfish (Kingfish), Friday, 7 January 2005 17:05 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, that's not going to annoy or anything.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 7 January 2005 17:20 (twenty years ago)

I'm waiting for the legacy call-up: "Our records show that your grandfather was honorably discharged in 1945 after serving just 20 months. That leaves 16 months still on the contract. Suit up, son."

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 7 January 2005 18:07 (twenty years ago)

Meanwhile, the Weekly Standard, probably ever more panicky over the thought that their precious neocon crusade might start really falling apart this year, again slams hard into Rumsfeld -- and those on the right that support him. Bring on this kind of civil war, sez I.

Rumsfeld's attitude has already led to a series of mistakes that have made a difficult situation more difficult. It has put the administration on the defensive about its conduct of a policy that is vital to America's national interest. It has distracted attention from the problem of winning the current war--our most important priority today bar none. These problems don't result from the liberal media or the antiwar crowd making a ruckus about nothing. They result from Rumsfeld's stubborn adherence to a wrongheaded policy. Surely, with the election safely over, there is no longer any need to protect the architect of these mistakes.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 8 January 2005 18:55 (twenty years ago)

gypsy that's happening, sorta. thousands of the ready reserves have been called up and it includes people in their 50's, whose last action was in Vietnam.

Called to return to duty

Lixi Swank (tracerhand), Saturday, 8 January 2005 19:34 (twenty years ago)

"It has distracted attention from the problem of winning the current war--our most important priority today bar none."

Can someone explain why that's more important than education, health care, and the dollar's decline? Maybe I'm just slow.

lysander spooner, Saturday, 8 January 2005 19:40 (twenty years ago)

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-fallouja7jan07.story
THE WORLD

After Leveling City, U.S. Tries to Build Trust
In Fallouja, Marines are on a 'hearts and minds' campaign to woo residents and help keep rebels from returning.
By Tony Perry
Times Staff Writer

January 7, 2005

FALLOUJA, Iraq — As he navigated his Humvee through rubble-strewn streets, Lance Cpl. Sunshine Yubeta articulated a question key to the Marines' mission here.

"I wonder," said the 23-year-old from Madras, Ore., nodding toward several sullen-looking men on a corner, "if they hate us or like us."

It's a quandary at the heart of U.S. policy in this city, which was once an insurgent stronghold. Having routed the guerrillas late last year in combat that left much of Fallouja in ruins, the U.S. military needs the cooperation of residents who fled the fighting and are now returning.

The U.S. knows that, to keep the insurgents from reestablishing a clandestine headquarters here, it will need information from residents if fighters try to move back.

In addition, U.S. officials hope for at least a modicum of participation from Fallouja in the Jan. 30 national election, to help bolster the credibility of the fledgling Iraqi government.

At five heavily guarded entry points to the city, military interrogators are selectively asking returning residents whether they have heard of the upcoming election and, if so, which, if any, candidates they support.

The goal, officials say, is not to influence how Iraqis vote but to gauge how well residents of politically isolated Fallouja understand the changes that have occurred in their country since Saddam Hussein's regime was toppled.

The Americans have set up relief centers in the city to provide food and water to residents and toys to children. By some estimates, the U.S. has earmarked $150 million to rebuild the city. The Iraqi government is preparing a compensation program.

In addition, Marines patrol the littered streets, talking to residents, asking for information about insurgents and handing out water, juice, cigarettes and snacks, some of which have been sent to the troops by their families in the U.S.

Posters offer rewards for the capture of insurgent leaders, although apparently there have been few takers.

Outside the Humanitarian Assistance center tents, Iraqis stand for hours to receive water and food packets stamped with a U.S. flag and the words "A Food Gift From the People of the United States of America." Hands are marked to prevent a return for seconds. Iraqis gather here not only for aid but for a chance to work in the assistance program, a job that pays about $8 a day.

One center is just blocks from the site where a mob killed four private U.S. contractors in March.

Many of those in line Thursday were hungry, cold, and appeared dazed by the events that had turned their city, which was untouched in the initial U.S.-led invasion in 2003, into a battlefield.

"I didn't do anything wrong, but the Americans destroyed my house," said Sami Fafaj, 49, holding two bottles of water and two food packets.

"I want America to rebuild my house and give me money for what they have done," said Fayed Abdullah, 37, collecting food for his seven children.

"The Americans are rich and strong, but sometimes I wish they had never come to Iraq."

Although public expressions of anger directed at the Americans seem rare, many Falloujans appear to feel they have been wronged by U.S. forces.

"Fallouja did something bad and God sent the terrorists to punish us," said Mehdea Salah Jassam, a neighborhood sheik. "Then he sent the Americans to punish us some more."

Although older residents may seem fatalistic, the younger ones show signs of impatience.

"We are not free to move in our own city," said Maged Haraj, 20. "We want to be free."

The young Marines say they are confident that residents will come to accept that the destruction was necessary to rid Fallouja of the insurgents, whom the locals called mujahedin.

"Any time we can interact with these people is good," said Sgt. James Regan, 29, of San Antonio. "They can see us for what we are. I asked one of them, 'When was the last time the mujahedin gave you water or food?' Never."

As the patrol vehicles prowled the streets, children ran after the Humvees begging for anything available. Adults asked for rice, water or cigarettes.

Some told horror stories of months living under insurgent control.

"I have a nephew that they beheaded," said truck driver Adnan Mohammed, flanked by two children. "You are our destiny."

But other Iraqi men remained on the curb, offering no smiles and returning no waves. One gestured in disdain. Some refused to ask for handouts but instead sent children to bring back items, particularly cigarettes.

For the Marines of Lima Company of the 3rd Battalion, 1st Regiment, these are the same streets where they engaged insurgents in block-by-block combat. Nine colleagues were killed.

"We lost a good Marine right over there," Regan said. "He had just three weeks to go before he would have left Iraq."

On a patrol this week, the Marines checked houses where they had found large caches of weaponry during the November assault. Some had collapsed; others had enormous holes in the roofs or walls.

"It's kind of bad we destroyed everything, but at least we gave them a chance for a new start," said Navy corpsman Derrick Anthony, 21, of Chicago.

Those who have returned are living a meager existence. In this western sector of the city only a handful of food stalls have reopened, although a black market is said to exist. A dusk-to-dawn curfew has been imposed.

But the urge to return is powerful, even when home is barely habitable.

"I'm happy now that I can come back to my house," said a 15-year-old boy, adding that life with the insurgents was not that bad. "We left them alone and they left us alone."

In many ways, the "hearts and minds" tactics are straight from the Marine Corps' "Small Wars Manual," written in the late 1930s to preserve information about successful campaigns against insurgents in South America and elsewhere.

In preparation for Iraq, officers were ordered to reread the manual, particularly the section on insurgencies. One rule it discusses is maintaining moral superiority in the minds of the populace by stressing that the fighting was the insurgents' fault. Amid the destruction here, it is not an easy rule to follow.

"It's hard to look these people in the eye after blowing everything up," said Staff Sgt. Travis McKinney, 31, of Vallejo, Calif. "These people were just victims."

[Bold emphasis, mine. RS.]

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh!
You're unbelievable!

RS, Saturday, 8 January 2005 21:35 (twenty years ago)

"It's kind of bad we destroyed everything, but at least we gave them a chance for a new start," said Navy corpsman Derrick Anthony, 21, of Chicago.

...y'know...oh, the hell with it...

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Saturday, 8 January 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

He's only 21.

youn, Saturday, 8 January 2005 21:46 (twenty years ago)

Can someone explain why that's more important than education, health care, and the dollar's decline? Maybe I'm just slow.

This is the Weekly Standard we're talking about -- neocon central, or one of said spots. Basically, they've essentially staked a lot of their reputation on this war as being 'the right thing to do' and are now starting to realize, especially as the grand goal of nation-building looks ever more impossible to carry out in the manner that they preferred, what that means, namely that their white knight Bush and his obsession with specific personal loyalty might do harm than good in the end. Thats a split that, frankly, is exactly what I want to see happen. (The exchange however is that this would only be fully accomplished via more death and destruction in Iraq -- which is not something I'm supporting in the slightest. The utter trap of this whole nonsense, as I've muttered before, is that the only thing which might impact the BushCo bunker mentality on this front is an insanely high amount of loss in blood and treasure for little return -- and anyone cheering for even more death is someone I don't want to deal with. Regardless, short of a vast and unexpected improvement in things over there this is going to be a year of fracturing among the right as time goes on, perhaps even a sort of panic as it comes clearer that Bush for four more years, unable to keep blaming things on Clinton anymore, means something that could really rebound nastily on the entire GOP coalition as a result, but that is a poor silver lining to look for as the dead and wounded increase over time.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 8 January 2005 22:33 (twenty years ago)

Errant U.S. airstrike kills at least 5 near Mosul
Deadly attacks continue; Three senior Iraqi officials abducted

But our government is so incompetent! We can't even fix the inner cities here! Doesn't that bother them? I guess the evidence says not.

(I am not cheering for more death either. But I think death-and-destruction incidents like the one below might result in some type of impeachment for these fools. One can only dream.)

The Associated Press

Updated: 4:21 p.m. ET Jan. 8, 2005

AITHA, Iraq - An explosion at a house south of Mosul killed 14 people and wounded five early Saturday, the owner said. The U.S. military confirmed that an air strike hit the building, but said five people died.

During a cordon and search operation to capture an insurgent lead, a U.S. air force F-16 dropped a 500-pound guided bomb in the area south of Mosul on the house intended for search, a military statement said.

"The house was not the intended target for the air strike. The intended target was another location nearby," the statement said. "Responding forces reported that five individuals died in the strike."

The house owner, Ali Yousef, said the strike happened at about 2:30 a.m. in this village 30 miles south of Mousl and American troops immediately came and surrounded the area, blocking access for four hours.

The brick house was reduced to a pile of rubble, according to an Associated Press photographer at the scene.

The U.S.-led force "deeply regrets the loss of possibly innocent lives," the military statement said.

By evening Saturday, all 14 dead -- including seven children -- had been buried in a nearby cemetery, Yousef said.

American troops have recently sent more troops to Mosul, which has seen heavy clashes in recent weeks between insurgents and American forces. U.S. officials acknowledge the area is still too unsafe for elections planned for Jan. 30 to take place there safely.

Meanwhile, Shiite and Sunni religious leaders voiced sharply divergent views on whether the vote should be held at all.

Continuing attacks

Earlier Saturday, militants abducted three senior Iraqi officials, beheaded a man who worked for the U.S. military, and killed four people in a suicide car bombing south of Baghdad, officials said.

At least three other people were killed in separate attacks across the country, a day after a U.S. general warned that insurgents may be planning “horrific” attacks ahead of Jan. 30 elections.

Air Force Brig. Gen. Erv Lessel, deputy chief of staff for strategic communications in Iraq, said Friday the United States has no intelligence indicating specific plots. But he said American leaders expected a rise in attacks.

“I think a worst case is where they have a series of horrific attacks that cause mass casualties in some spectacular fashion in the days leading up to the elections,” Lessel said.

“If you look over the last six months, they have steadily escalated the barbaric nature of the attacks they have been committing. A year ago, you didn’t see these kinds of horrific things,” he said.

lysander spooner, Saturday, 8 January 2005 22:44 (twenty years ago)

The U.S.-led force "deeply regrets the loss of possibly innocent lives," the military statement said.

Possibly.

What if Osama Bin Laden said that about us? How can we be so smug and stupid at the same time? I will stop derailing ranting now.

lysander spooner, Saturday, 8 January 2005 23:00 (twenty years ago)

He's only 21.

I know. That's not really much of an excuse, but it's not so much him anyway as the mindset represented there -- and the way it illustrates that whatever lessons should have been learned from Vietnam were not learned at all, at least in some quarters.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Saturday, 8 January 2005 23:28 (twenty years ago)

Or what I should have said was...Old enough to drink, old enough to think.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Sunday, 9 January 2005 01:26 (twenty years ago)

Oopsie.

The fundamental decision set up one nationwide vote for a new national assembly, rather than elections by districts and provinces. With a violent insurgency spreading through the Sunni Arab areas of the country, it now looks as if fewer Sunnis will vote, distorting the balance of the legislature and casting doubt on whether the election will be seen as legitimate.

According to officials planning the election, the decision was driven by the realities of an unstable Iraq and the unrelenting pressure to speed the country to a vote by the end of January 2005, as demanded by many Iraqis. To make that deadline, it was believed, there was no time to conduct a census or go through the politically divisive chore of drawing district lines.

A national constituency also made it easier to meet the demands of the former exiles installed in power in Baghdad to let millions of Iraqis living outside the country vote, and the demands of others to ensure that 25 percent of the legislators were women. The experts reasoned that it would be much easier to find women for slates running nationwide than for each of many smaller districts.

"We looked at a lot of alternatives and presented them to the Iraqis and everyone else," said an official involved in the decision-making process. "Basically, a nationwide constituency solved a lot of problems and made our lives a lot easier."

But now, with the violent insurgency and more than 7,000 candidates, many in alliances with other candidates, running for 275 seats nationwide, the disadvantages of the current system are becoming all too apparent, according to American, Iraqi and United Nations officials.

For one thing, these officials say, there is no possibility of postponing the election selectively in those districts gripped by the insurgency. For another, the expected low turnout in perhaps a fifth of the country, where the Sunni minority lives, will presumably lessen the chances of candidates who are popular there.

This problem is discouraging Sunnis from running or campaigning, and a failure of these candidates to win proportionate to their share of Iraq's population, could easily reinforce the Sunnis' alienation from the Shiite majority.

Thus an election intended to bring Iraq together and quell the insurgency could produce the opposite outcome, in part because of the way it has been organized.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 10 January 2005 01:31 (twenty years ago)

"and more than 7,000 candidates, many in alliances with other candidates, running for 275 seats nationwide"
OMG WTF.
I apologize to all if I seem too warlike and violent - I don't know which side I'm on.
But I AM on the side of 7000 candidates, just because it is the most absurd and beautiful idea of democracy.
If nothing else, I hope our capitalist intentions DO inspire democracy.
Maybe Iraq can define it for us.

aimurchie, Monday, 10 January 2005 01:51 (twenty years ago)

Time to bring up Stratfor and Friedman again -- as I'm not a direct subscriber I can't provide the whole thing but Andrew Sullivan has some quotes up from a new post where Stratfor is saying that the effort to control Iraq/establish 'democracy' however defined is an irretrievable failure. The quoted material:

The issue facing the Bush administration is simple. It can continue to fight the war as it has, hoping that a miracle will bring successes in 2005 that didn't happen in 2004. Alternatively, it can accept the reality that the guerrilla force is now self-sustaining and sufficiently large not to flicker out and face the fact that a U.S. conventional force of less than 150,000 is not likely to suppress the guerrillas. More to the point, it can recognize these facts: 1. The United States cannot re-engineer Iraq because the guerrillas will infiltrate every institution it creates. 2. That the United States by itself lacks the intelligence capabilities to fight an effective counterinsurgency. 3. That exposing U.S. forces to security responsibilities in this environment generates casualties without bringing the United States closer to the goal. 4. That the strain on the U.S. force is undermining its ability to react to opportunities and threats in the rest of the region. And that, therefore, this phase of the Iraq campaign must be halted as soon as possible.

---

Certainly, it would have been nice for the United States if it had been able to dominate Iraq thoroughly. Somewhere between "the U.S. blew it" and "there was never a chance" that possibility is gone. It would have been nice if the United States had never tried to control the situation, because now the United States is going to have to accept a defeat, which will destabilize the region psychologically for a while. But what is is, and the facts speak for themselves. We are not Walter Cronkite, and we are not saying that the war is lost. The war is with the jihadists around the world; Iraq was just one campaign, and the occupation of the Sunnis was just one phase of that campaign. That phase has been lost. The administration has allowed that phase to become the war as a whole in the public mind. That was a very bad move, but the administration is just going to have to bite the bullet and do the hard, painful and embarrassing work of cutting losses and getting on with the war. If Bush has trouble doing this, he should conjure up Lyndon Johnson's ghost, wandering restlessly in the White House, and imagine how Johnson would have been remembered if he had told Robert McNamara to get lost in 1966.

Sullivan adds as a summary point to the first quote: "[Stratfor] recommend withdrawing U.S. forces to the periphery of Iraq and letting the inevitable civil war take place in the center" -- a diagnosis they made around May or so of last year, so a rehash but a pointed one. Sullivan himself hopes something can improve but his pessimism is clear.

(On a slightly related note, Sullivan also links in a quote from another source that's rhetorically interesting, though it's patently a rose-colored glasses view of history:

"Now, if you know the tradition of the United States Army, one thing has been consistent and that is that we are aggressive and tough on the field of battle, but when you take prisoners they are treated humanely and with respect. That's the rule that was set by George Washington in the battle of Trenton on Dec. 25, 1776. The soldiers of the continental army took the Hessians and said these soldiers are mercenaries and we should take retribution on them. They wanted the Hessians to run the gauntlet and they would beat them with sticks. General Washington said we will not do this. He said these people will be treated with respect and dignity and they will suffer no abuse or torture, because to do otherwise would bring dishonor upon our sacred cause. That's one of the first orders given to the continental army and that antedates the United States. It has been military tradition for 240 years, and it was stopped by Donald Rumsfeld." - former lawyer for Andrei Sakharov, Scott Horton.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 10 January 2005 05:31 (twenty years ago)

I'm glad we stayed the course. It would have been an absolute disaster to change commanders in the middle of a war!

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Monday, 10 January 2005 05:33 (twenty years ago)

Since the war - on terrorism - is a permanent war, I guess we should never change commanders? Jeb Bush is next. And we founded this country against the idea of monarchy.
I love the idea of Bush walking the floors of the oval office and hearing the ghosts of history speak to him. I hate the fact that what he does is wake up and let someone else tell him what to think.
Including Donald Rumsfeld, who should have been forced out of office long ago.
The insurgency only gains credence by our lame-assed attempts to restore order. The insurgency continually relies on pissed off people who don't know which side to join. Since the U.S. is not making any attempt to give a regular person in Iraq the opportunity to rebuild the country, nor making any effort to speak to these people, it is easy to see why regular citizens might join the insurgency.
Why are we there, and what are we doing? Every reason for this occupation has been proved false. There were no WMD's. Hussein was a tyrant, but as opposed to who? And now, we are there, and people are being killed every day, and the reason is...because we must "stay the course".
Creating peace and winning hearts and minds is not difficult. Jobs are a good start. Asking citizens to work for their community is always beneficial. Speaking the language is also good, as opposed to horrified soldiers and horrified Iraqis.
I hate the brutality on both sides - on all sides. But,y'know, I haven't seen my life blown up before me. I don't have to live with my sense of commerce destroyed. My church stands still - it is not riddled with bullets and not used to harbor terrorists.
Except me.
We aren't even at war anymore. I mean, we are continually at war because the war on terrorism is just a constantly fruitful area for this administration, and pretty much all elected officials, to mine from.
But the war in Iraq is over. Remember that part? Mission Accomplished.
The path to peace involves taking every life seriously. if we take the time to allow the Iraqis to rebuild by themselves - while removing all outsourced job opportunities - maybe, then, we could see something dramatic and beautiful happen. Maybe they know just as much as we do.

Al-Quaeda is everywhere, and nowhere. The success of any terrorist network relies on anonymity.

aimurchie, Monday, 10 January 2005 13:00 (twenty years ago)

FWIW - that last declaration was not meant to be posted. it's a whole different conversation.

aimurchie, Monday, 10 January 2005 13:41 (twenty years ago)

This article scares the fuck out of me. What happens when payback comes? We in America are serious dumb asses for letting this happen.

Then, as now, for Iraqis, our invasion and occupation was a case of liberation from -- from human rights (think: the atrocities committed in Abu Ghraib which are still occurring daily there and elsewhere); liberation from functioning infrastructure (think: the malfunctioning electric system, the many-mile long gas lines, the raw sewage in the streets); liberation from an entire city to live in (think: Fallujah, most of which has by now been flattened by aerial bombardment and other means).

Iraqis were then already bitter, confused, and existing amid a desolation that came from myriads of Bush administration broken promises. Quite literally every liberated Iraqi I've gotten to know from my earliest days in the country has either had a family member or a friend killed by U.S. soldiers or from the effects of the war/occupation. These include such everyday facts of life as not having enough money for food or fuel due to massive unemployment and soaring energy prices, or any of the countless other horrors caused by the aforementioned. The broken promises, broken infrastructure, and broken cities of Iraq were plainly visible in those early months of 2004 -- and the sad thing is that the devastation I saw then has only grown worse since. The life Iraqis were living a year ago, horrendous as it was, was but a prelude to what was to come under the U.S. occupation. The warning signs were clear from a shattered infrastructure, to all the torturing, to a burgeoning, violent resistance.

http://www.mojones.com/news/dailymojo/2005/01/01_504.html

anonymous poster, Tuesday, 11 January 2005 02:02 (twenty years ago)

Bombings kill 18

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6727646/

Sid Meier, Tuesday, 11 January 2005 16:32 (twenty years ago)

Good piece by Dan Baum in The New Yorker which is essentially non-partisan, more observational about how many officers are reacting on the ground to what's happening. While it covers a variety of things, it's mostly a take as to how younger/in theater officers are reading and reacting to the job, as well as how they use things like the Net to share information and keep in touch. There is this interesting note at the end, though:

A week before the Presidential election, the Association of the United States Army held its annual convention in Washington. Membership in the association is open both to Army personnel and the corporations that sell things to the Army, and the gathering transformed the lower level of the Washington Convention Center into an arms bazaar. Attractive women posed fetchingly beside Bradley Fighting Vehicles, Volvo displayed its trucks, Barrett Firearms showed off its new .50-calibre sniper rifles, and the Gallup Organization offered an array of “business improvement services.” Upstairs, professional-development experts gave officers tips on everything from “actionable intelligence” to unit finance. Officers mingled in the hallways in dress-green droves, those who had been in combat distinguished by unit patches on the right arm rather than the left. The talk of the convention was a book published in 1997 that the officer corps has recently rediscovered. Many carried the volume under their arms, and no fewer than six urged me to read it: “Dereliction of Duty,” written by an Army major named H. R. McMaster. Using once classified Vietnam-era documents, McMaster finds fault not just with Robert McNamara, then the Secretary of Defense, who dismissed warnings from the Joint Chiefs of Staff that the Vietnam War would be hard to win, but with the four Chiefs themselves, who were complicit, because they failed to publicly voice their misgivings. “Each one of those four went to their graves thinking they didn’t do enough to protest,” White told me. “They should have put their stars on the table and said, ‘We won’t be part of this.’”

The officers fighting in Iraq are, most of the time, remarkably enthusiastic. This is their war, the only one they may get in their careers. It follows an attack on the United States, even if the connection between the attack and the war has been questioned. Within the tiny sliver of the war each sees, examples of brilliance and bravery abound. They’re proud to be a part of “the most beautiful Army in the history of the world,” as one recently returned captain put it; he praised his immediate commander for wisdom and compassion, and his company for being so disciplined and professional that it could turn off the violence “like a good hunting dog.” They brag about the Q36, a computerized weapon system that is so sophisticated it can spot an enemy mortar or rocket in midair, trace its trajectory backward, and fire a response before the enemy round lands. But they will also tell you that the war is excruciating. Despite their Buck Rogers technology, they are losing friends to weapons made from RadioShack gizmos, and the people they’ve been sent to help seem to hate them more every day. They can’t imagine when or how they will earn a victory parade.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 January 2005 16:39 (twenty years ago)

This is their war, the only one they may get in their careers. It follows an attack on the United States, even if the connection between the attack and the war has been questioned.

interesting way of framing it like this, as opposed to adding "...or even proven"

kingfish (Kingfish), Tuesday, 11 January 2005 17:21 (twenty years ago)

It's a reasonable neutral stance for now if some people still cling to it. And many do, so let them get disabused via other means...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 January 2005 17:29 (twenty years ago)

training troops thru the net and msgboards

makes you wonder if their arguments fall towards the ILM or IMDB style of discourse.

kingfish (Kingfish), Tuesday, 11 January 2005 18:04 (twenty years ago)

Apparently Newsweek is reporting military sources as saying they are looking at setting up death squads of the style used by the El Salvodorean or Israeli armies, to exterminate the opponents of US rule.

DV (dirtyvicar), Tuesday, 11 January 2005 18:17 (twenty years ago)

*arched eyebrow* That would be a bit extreme.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 January 2005 18:31 (twenty years ago)

Let's just say it was extreme the last few times we did it, too, but that wasn't a sufficient impediment. However, I don't believe it would work in Iraq. In places like Guatemala or El Salvador, there was an hereditary oligarchy that had always treated the peons as slaves and whose interests aligned with the US interests.

We have no such allies in Iraq, in that the Shi'a, the natural enemies of the Sunnis, deeply mistrust us and have very little reason to carry our water for us. If they set up death squads, it would be an independent effort to get strong enough to kick the USA forces out and realign with Iran.

Aimless (Aimless), Tuesday, 11 January 2005 19:11 (twenty years ago)

msnbc is hosting the newsweek article, "The Salvador Option"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6802629/site/newsweek/

(Jon L), Tuesday, 11 January 2005 20:44 (twenty years ago)

Apparently Newsweek is reporting military sources as saying they are looking at setting up death squads of the style used by the El Salvodorean or Israeli armies, to exterminate the opponents of US rule.

Our new ambassador to Iraq is Negroponte who's done this kind of thing before.

Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 11 January 2005 20:47 (twenty years ago)

There's also the small matter that bringing death squads to Iraq is like bringing poppies to Kandahar. Death squads aren't exactly in short supply. What, we're gonna scare the people who perform summary executions on video and blow themselves up in front of police stations? Not to mention also that the death squads will inevitably end up torturing nuns and children or whatever.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 08:48 (twenty years ago)

that'll teach 'em!

DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 12:15 (twenty years ago)

Awesome

Iraq rebels in video taunt

Wed Jan 12, 2005 03:05 PM GMT
By Michael Georgy

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Departing from fiery Islamic slogans, Iraqi guerrillas have launched a propaganda campaign with an English-language video urging U.S. troops to lay down their weapons and seek refuge in mosques and homes.

The video, narrated in fluent English by what sounded like an Iraqi educated in the United States or Britain, also mocked the U.S. president's challenge to rebels in the early days of the insurgency to 'bring it on'.

"George W. Bush; you have asked us to 'bring it on'. And so help me, (we will) like you never expected. Do you have another challenge?," asked the narrator before the video showed explosions around a U.S. military Humvee vehicle.

Threats intended to demoralise and frighten in the tense build up to elections at the end of the month were tempered with invitations to desert and escape retribution.

A masked guerrilla from an unknown group called the Islamic Jihad Army, eschewing past impassioned Arabic-language threats of holy war, told U.S. soldiers: "This is not your war, nor are you fighting for a true cause in Iraq."

"To the American soldiers we say you can also choose to fight tyranny with us. Lay down your weapons and seek refuge in our mosques, churches and homes. We will protect you," he said.

There was no way of verifying the authenticity of the video obtained by Reuters.

Previous insurgent videos have been dominated by grisly beheadings of foreign hostages who kneel beside radical Islamic banners before their deaths.

The Islamic Jihad Army video featured familiar scenes of guerrillas blowing up U.S. convoys but also highlighted some of the key issues of the Iraq war, from weapons of mass destruction to the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States.

"We have not crossed the oceans and seas to occupy Britain or the U.S. nor are we responsible for 9/11. These are only a few of these lies that these criminals present to cover their true plans," said the narrator, apparently referring to the Bush administration's assertion of a link between Saddam Hussein and those attacks.

A masked speaker with a machine gun beside him delivered his message to triumphant music with the ring of U.S. military propaganda films during World War Two.

He said the enemy was on the run as the video showed guerrillas firing on U.S. convoys, standing beside the corpse of an American soldier, or loading a large shell for an attack.

The U.S. military has said it would stay in Iraq until the country is by its definition secure.

The rebels focused on political issues that divided the United States and its European allies over the war in Iraq while reminding troops of casualties with images of burning trucks.

"We also thank France, Germany and other states for their positions, which we need to say are considered wise and valid until now," said the narrator, who also urged economic warfare against Washington.

"Stop using the U.S. dollar. Use the Euro or a basket of currencies," he said on the video dated December 10, 2004.

At least 1,067 U.S. troops have died in combat since the start of the war that toppled Saddam Hussein in 2003.

Osombre, Thursday, 13 January 2005 03:57 (twenty years ago)

It's a reasonable neutral stance for now

Ned?!! Has someone replaced your brain?? On what planet is it reasonable to posit a connection between Iraq and the 9/11 attacks? You do realize that not all, but a LOT of public support for this war would evaporate without this totally FALSE connection? Yikes! That a New Yorker reporter wrote that is astonishing, given their reputation for hair-trigger fact-checking whizzes (which these days is probably undeserved).

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 13 January 2005 04:19 (twenty years ago)

people - have been searching (perhaps in vain?) for a thread on the abu ghraib/charles graner trial which wound up over the weekend? it kicked off while i was in venixe with the missus, and we kept up via cnn (yuk!) each morning, and graner's 'we'll see how much of a monster i am' spiel was chilling.

stevie (stevie), Monday, 17 January 2005 06:17 (twenty years ago)

The shocking thing is that Graner will probably get 15 years - and that will probably be reduced.
Meanwhile, nobody else is being held accountable. Graner was a prison guard, and a member of the National Guard. Which means his training was squat. I am sure he abused prisoners in his cell block before he was sent to Iraq.
The abuse goes all the way up the chain of command. It's not enough to have a trial and say "See! We're dealing with it!"
It is documented that torture, humiliation and abuse were fair game in the prisons the occupying forces created.
And, of course, we have the release of prisoners from Cuba - that pesky place that isn't under our juridiction unless our military happens to be there.
Guantanamo ...held without reason, but put in a cell because the assumption was terrorism. Denied access to a lawyer.
How is this democracy?
If the point is to share, or spread, democracy around the world, then I must have missed the point.
People dying in isolated camps should scare all of us.

aimurchie, Monday, 17 January 2005 07:15 (twenty years ago)

Ned?!! Has someone replaced your brain?? On what planet is it reasonable to posit a connection between Iraq and the 9/11 attacks? You do realize that not all, but a LOT of public support for this war would evaporate without this totally FALSE connection? Yikes!

I'm beginning to think that all my posts over the past three years on this and other related subjects apparently left no impression if people constantly think the worst of my dryer understatements. I humbly apologize for not prefacing every post with a 72 bold Helvetica font assertion about the evils of this world and how boiling BushCo in oily snot would be a great source of amusement to me. You may create a macro if you like that I can use so that there will be no further confusion in this matter; alternately, maybe you could not overreact.

To quote my *entire* statement, thank you very much:

It's a reasonable neutral stance for now if some people still cling to it. And many do, so let them get disabused via other means...

Please note the 'if' rather than the 'because,' for a start. As it happens, I could have said 'because' very easily and then immediately note why. All you have to do is to go to NRO's Corner blog and see that their rhetoric semi-regularly insists on a larger al-Qaeda/Iraq/'fight the bad terrorists that are bad' approach on these matters, and that's just one site aimed at a fairly small slice of the media pie -- and they consider themselves the 'intellectuals' of the bunch over the likes of O'Reilly!

As I was trying to demonstrate, perhaps too quietly, people will believe what they wish to, even as the evidence accumulates otherwise. The statement by the reporter acknowledges this somewhat unsettled situation where, to one extent or another, the tenuous and twisted Iraq/al-Qaeda connection is still bought into among many people (inside the military and out) despite/because of half-hearted retractions or muddled demi-assertions from BushCo. That's the *point.* Honestly I don't see that being fully removed for a long time to come even if Bush himself flat out came clean on national TV -- and he won't, so there you go. The buck having been thoroughly passed to the CIA and having graciously absolved himself of all blame in this matter, he can do his little "Ooop!" thing and get away scot free -- for now.

Finally, if the original quote I referred implies specifically a general state of mind among the military serving there -- that the occupation is seen a justifiable response to an attack, and that therefore morale is still reasonably high on this question. You may read into that what you will. If it will take something else to 'disabuse' them of the goodness of all this, then there we are -- and it sounds like such would be the case.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 January 2005 08:54 (twenty years ago)

was there a dedicated thread for the graner trial?

stevie (stevie), Monday, 17 January 2005 13:34 (twenty years ago)

Not that I was aware of. The reports I read were fucked up enough, though.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 January 2005 17:11 (twenty years ago)

Meanwhile, a fine how do you do:

A Catholic archbishop in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul has been kidnapped by insurgents, the Vatican says.

Archbishop Basile Georges Casmoussa, 66, was abducted from outside his church in the city.

Lowry over in NROville claims a 'plugged-in person' told him this:

It's a shame what has happened there, given that the city was something of a model. It had a great governing council and police force and was very stable and safe. But we took our eye off the ball, lightening our presence. We eventually became worried about the chief of police being compromised and about the head of the university there, who was an Islamist involved in anti-US incitement. We pressured the interim government to do something about them, but nothing happened until it was too late. Meanwhile, insurgents had been operating on the outskirts of the city, and engaged in probing manuevers until they determined that its defenses were soft. Then, they moved. Now, it's absolutely critical that we regain firm control of the city, with its large population and Sunni majority.

Sounds like flack to me.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 January 2005 23:06 (twenty years ago)

Oops.

(Please note I am extremely understating my reaction to the above-linked incident.)

Meanwhile.

At least 26 people have been killed in a series of car bombings in Baghdad.

At least four of the blasts happened within 90 minutes of each other, targeting local and foreign security forces during the morning rush hour.

But hey, Rice got confirmed so everything's going to be better, now we don't have that horrible Colin Powell there slowing things down! Yeah! Er.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 17:38 (twenty years ago)

That's the trouble with these damn combat veterans in positions of authority. They're so damn cautious about starting wars and then once you overrule them and start the damn war, it's "shouldn't we think about this" and "torture is wrong" and "what is that supposed to accomplish" until you're just sick of it.

Give me a Cheney any day of the week. Now there's a guy with some balls. Or Rumsfeld - that Rummy is a regular fire-eater. At least with Condi, you can just make a scary face and she'll go hide in the corner and not bother you, while we big dogs get our work done. An amenable lass - like Laura. [/Bush]

Aimless (Aimless), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 18:12 (twenty years ago)

still no Iraq war ILX category. are the moderators IN LEAGUE WITH BUSH?

DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 23:36 (twenty years ago)

No, we're in the bush league.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 23:40 (twenty years ago)

Hmmmm.

Coalition troops and Iraqi security forces may be responsible for up to 60% of conflict-related civilian deaths in Iraq - far more than are killed by insurgents, confidential records obtained by the BBC's Panorama programme reveal.

Official figures, compiled by Iraq's Ministry of Health, break down deaths according to insurgent and coalition activity. They are usually available only to Iraqi cabinet ministers.

The data covers the period 1 July 2004 to 1 January 2005, and relates to all conflict-related civilian deaths and injuries recorded by Iraqi public hospitals. The figures exclude, where known, the deaths of insurgents.

The figures reveal that 3,274 Iraqi civilians were killed and 12,657 wounded in conflict-related violence during the period.

Of those deaths, 60% - 2,041 civilians - were killed by the coalition and Iraqi security forces. A further 8,542 were wounded by them.

Insurgent attacks claimed 1,233 lives, and wounded 4,115 people, during the same period.

Panorama interviewed US Ambassador John Negroponte shortly before it obtained the figures. He told reporter John Simpson:

"My impression is that the largest amount of civilian casualties definitely is a result of these indiscriminate car bombings.

"You yourself are aware of those as they occur in the Baghdad area and more frequently than not the largest number of victims of these acts of terror are innocent civilian bystanders".

The coalition has yet to respond to the figures.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 28 January 2005 23:48 (twenty years ago)

Many of whom probably died in Fallujah, I assume.

Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 28 January 2005 23:51 (twenty years ago)


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