attempting to live in real world, late capitalist u.s. edition

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I know the job market's supposed to be rough, but is it possible for someone fresh out of college (yes, liberal arts degree) to find a job without busting his butt to try and convince some Barnes and Noble manager/bitch that he's going to be the answer to all of her problems for 6.25 an hour? I must have spent the last four years, and maybe all of my life, with my head completely up my ass. I just assumed that you go to a good college, work hard in class, get good grades, and then everything sort of takes care of itself -- but here I am, trolling the want ads for something in the $8-$10 range (office whatevers), because I literally can't conceive of any other type of arrangement, realistically available to me without relying on pure luck, where you do work -> get money. I majored in film (yes, not the smartest move), and I'm planning to go to graduate school to study it. Ultimately, I'd like to write about it professionally in some degree or another. I knew beforehand that all of this means not a lot of money in my pocket. Still, I should be able to support myself, live away from home, not ask my parents for money all the time, and get SOME position that even REMOTELY PERTAINS to where I want to end up, you know?

I'm going to send resumes, etc. to a few of the local papers around where I live, but I have a sneaking suspicion that they're only going to hire interns/people who know them/people with ridiculous amounts of experience. I guess that's part of my problem -- I'm quite introverted and after four years of college my network is like four or five people wide (including a few admiring college professors who I'm already milking for grad school apps). So yeah, I need a job and it's fucking impossible to get a decent one, let alone know where to look for it, so I'll probably end up at like Blockbuster Video (except that I won't because I'm sure they'll say I don't have any RETAIL EXPERIENCE. ARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!).

fauxhemian (fauxhemian), Friday, 7 January 2005 00:28 (twenty years ago)

I've been sitting at home on my ass for the last few days commiserating about the whole situation and feeling myself start to slip off into some nightmarish, motivation-less state of mind, so someone say something, even if it's to slap me around a bit!

fauxhemian (fauxhemian), Friday, 7 January 2005 00:30 (twenty years ago)

HAHAAAAAAAAAA thank you i am so glad now i did n't go to colleege. i foresaw myslef graduating and ending up as shopping cart collector at shopco and i daresay I MAY HAVE MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE.

sorry if that's now what you had in mind i'm sure things'll work out etc.

John (jdahlem), Friday, 7 January 2005 00:36 (twenty years ago)

a great way to get a job is to act like you're entitled to one because you have some pissant bachelor's degree.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 7 January 2005 00:36 (twenty years ago)

Temp agencies.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 7 January 2005 00:37 (twenty years ago)

oh cool, thanks asshole.

xpost

fauxhemian (fauxhemian), Friday, 7 January 2005 00:38 (twenty years ago)

OTOH, i sympathize that you've been sold on a dream and it's turned out to be horseshit. good luck finding something that pays well and pertains to your field of study. i didn't and now work at... barnes and noble.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 7 January 2005 00:39 (twenty years ago)

fauxhemian when I graduated college eight years ago with a liberal arts degree I sent out 50 cover letters and resumes. two places responded, one of which was a dream job. they hired me. it happens.

tylor, Friday, 7 January 2005 00:40 (twenty years ago)

No offense, but one of the better decisions I ever made was to drop out of college. When I meet up with people now who make the same wage as me but are also trying to pay down their gigantimous college debt, I breathe a sigh of relief.

If you want to go to college for knowledge and that crap, go ahead. Anyone looking for a job afterward though is in for a big surprise.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Friday, 7 January 2005 00:40 (twenty years ago)

well, the dream's not exactly horseshit, since it sure as hell worked for a lot of other people i know. just more complicated for me, i guess.

yes, temp agencies.. good suggestion.

fauxhemian (fauxhemian), Friday, 7 January 2005 00:43 (twenty years ago)

pleasant plains--luckily, i got the four years free, so no big debt to pay off. now THAT would justify whining...

fauxhemian (fauxhemian), Friday, 7 January 2005 00:45 (twenty years ago)

just realize that you need to shoot for as high as possible as soon as possible and when it doesn't happen, their loss. keep going. anything else will bog you down. depression is the one thing that you don't want to deal with right now.

Carl Winslow and Jeanne-Claude (deangulberry), Friday, 7 January 2005 00:46 (twenty years ago)

fauxhemian wer eyou talking to me? i hope not i'm really sorry if i pissed you off for real i don't even knwo what i'm saying or what i said quite honestly..all the best.

john.

John (jdahlem), Friday, 7 January 2005 00:47 (twenty years ago)

Most people tend to get hosed even worse if they didnt go to college. They not only have similar shitty jobs to some people who went to college, but get paid way less just because they dont have a degree.

major jingleberries (jingleberries), Friday, 7 January 2005 00:47 (twenty years ago)

t/s: having a shitty job with upward mobility vs. having a shitty job

Carl Winslow and Jeanne-Claude (deangulberry), Friday, 7 January 2005 00:49 (twenty years ago)

no, not you dear john.

fauxhemian (fauxhemian), Friday, 7 January 2005 00:49 (twenty years ago)

oh good

also look on the bright side ABSOLUTE BEST CASE scnerario for me = i will be working as a part-time janitor in springfield IL

John (jdahlem), Friday, 7 January 2005 00:52 (twenty years ago)

i was looking at a janitor ad today... i'm underqualified.

fauxhemian (fauxhemian), Friday, 7 January 2005 00:53 (twenty years ago)

apply for jobs you want. getting rejected from those is much easier to take than getting rejected from some shitty job that you didn't even want.

Carl Winslow and Jeanne-Claude (deangulberry), Friday, 7 January 2005 00:54 (twenty years ago)

well i applied earlier and got rejected but i've had a touch of experience since so i'm hoping second times a charm.

xpost

John (jdahlem), Friday, 7 January 2005 00:54 (twenty years ago)

but maybe if i rock at being a 7-11 cashier, they'll let me move up to shift manager in a year or so. COLLEGE DEGREE Y'ALL.

fauxhemian (fauxhemian), Friday, 7 January 2005 00:56 (twenty years ago)

carl--true. it almost makes it easier to type out the cover letters / resumes too -- it's like, 'fuck it,' and the over-thought-out desperation vanishes like soap scum under Scrub Free!

fauxhemian (fauxhemian), Friday, 7 January 2005 00:59 (twenty years ago)

btw the min wage in IL got bumped up a full dollar juist the other day...that's cool eh.

John (jdahlem), Friday, 7 January 2005 01:14 (twenty years ago)

YOU MAJORED IN LIBERAL ARTS; YOU'RE GAY!

LSD ARISTOCAT (ex machina), Friday, 7 January 2005 01:55 (twenty years ago)

Construction. Even at day labor places you should clear $8-10. (Though if you're from the north, I don't know what the construction market is like, do they just stop working outdoors during the winter?)

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Friday, 7 January 2005 02:15 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, it's pretty much seasonal. I'll keep it in mind though if I haven't found anything worthwhile by springtime.

fauxhemian (fauxhemian), Friday, 7 January 2005 02:47 (twenty years ago)

if you live in new york, chicago or los angeles you should troll craigs list for production assistant jobs. in the film industry you definitely have to start at the bottom, but even that can be like a $130-$150 day rate.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 7 January 2005 03:17 (twenty years ago)

If you can find a job that will just pay the bills, a good way to get experience is to volunteer at a non-profit agency. Put in as many hours as you can, doing the most meaningful work they'll give you.

Another way to make connections is to join a professional organization and attend their meetings. (I don't know which ones exist for the industries you're looking at, but I'm sure they're out there.)

dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 7 January 2005 03:22 (twenty years ago)

If you qualify, become a test-prep tutor/instructor.

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 7 January 2005 04:30 (twenty years ago)

hooker

Carl Winslow and Jeanne-Claude (deangulberry), Friday, 7 January 2005 04:32 (twenty years ago)

Do test-prep instructors get to ridicule the kids taking the class?

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Friday, 7 January 2005 04:36 (twenty years ago)

My sister graduated last May and is going through this exact same shit. I feel bad for her. It's tough out there.

jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Friday, 7 January 2005 04:47 (twenty years ago)

Uh, why is everyone pissing on college degrees? It's not nothing to do all that work and earn one. I worked my ass off to get my liberal arts B.A. and I'm kind of sick of being sneered at, because good, solid writing skills are important and valuable (and rather hard to outsource). Don't sell yourself short.

You got a liberal arts degree = you can write, can't you? Very few people can. Do you have any writing experience? Even including work on college paper/articles for web publications etc.? Put that first. Also, computer skills are important, put those too - it might seem like a no brainer but not everybody knows basic office software & how to do research online and whatnot. Also, if you majored in film does that mean you have production/editing skills?

And not much ever makes its way to the want ads in publications.. it is networking, but also you could try temp agencies specializing in publications work if there are any where you live. (What part of the country?)

And cheer up. All my friends have liberal arts degrees and they all found good jobs - project management, law, nonprofit work, arts organizations, publishing.

daria g (daria g), Friday, 7 January 2005 04:50 (twenty years ago)

Of course, my friends and I had the good luck to hit the job market of the Clinton 90s and to be in the DC metro area, where there are tons of jobs (even now). It is tough, and I sympathize, but I hate to see the first reaction to be kicking oneself for having gone to the trouble + expense of getting the degree - this is bullshit, because on average people with college degrees make significantly more money than those without, and even if you have to start from the bottom of the salary ladder you won't hit a ceiling pretty fast like many without a B.A. will.

daria g (daria g), Friday, 7 January 2005 04:53 (twenty years ago)

i thought lib arts degrees where those ones where they teach you how to play piano n shit so how's writing come into it? well i dunno. seems like it would less worthless than an english degree cuz you'd be a renaissance man type and everybody finds that cool.

apologies if that makes no sense.

John (jdahlem), Friday, 7 January 2005 04:59 (twenty years ago)

don't apologize, though it doesn't make any sense.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 7 January 2005 04:59 (twenty years ago)

There are also a lot of "reporter" jobs at financial and legal news services and trade mags that are boring but pay decently and aren't as hardcore as real journalism.

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 7 January 2005 05:00 (twenty years ago)

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

seriously my last job was at a trade paper and it kicked my ass (and I graduated back in '98 and have a lot of real world experience).

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 7 January 2005 05:03 (twenty years ago)

Oh well. I'm a legal "reporter" and my job is pretty easy. I guess my experience isn't typical.

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 7 January 2005 06:26 (twenty years ago)

Uh, why is everyone pissing on college degrees?

that was mainly me, and mainly because i'm quite bitter about it after years of fruitless job hunting. i probably shouldn't have posted that. i'll try and think of some constructive advice.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 7 January 2005 08:17 (twenty years ago)

get me one job please, hurting.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 7 January 2005 08:19 (twenty years ago)

i thought lib arts degrees where those ones where they teach you how to play piano n shit so how's writing come into it?

Um, what you think happens to be wrong.

hstencil, dude, what kind of a job? c'mon, it's not impossible. Now, I don't have a job, but I did and could perfectly well get another one if I weren't depressed as fuck and counting the days til my lease is up and I can get out of fucking New England..

daria g (daria g), Friday, 7 January 2005 10:42 (twenty years ago)

Where are you going? take me! Fuck this place.

Back pats to the O.P. I got the same deal. I worked my ass off for a similar situation. I even spent a year plus, after graduating, of really hard work to complete and get some festival time for a film project. End result, no job, nothing, it fucking sucks. I feel stabbed in the back, too because with a little more help from my parents, and I mean a little, not much more than the cost of a PC and some months to work on it, I could have got set up with a home studio and freelance work. Got offered some, but no equipment. Don't laugh, it takes a hell of a lot of thankless sweat and dedication, it's not asking for a free ride, that is how everyone I know who got a job in the business got it. Instead I got told the degree was the end of help, then I ended up broke and even homeless for a small stretch. Now I'm doing self-employed ebay type stuff. It's way, way better than any gas station job. So add that to the list of good suggestions above. Try self-employ. You can ditch it with no commitment if you want, it's very liberating. Although the downside is it can drag you away from your other life's plans with film and creative endeavors, it takes a long time to build and then you have all the momentum of keeping it going- but yeah, building a house full of stuff to sell on ebay is a pretty good way to be self employed.

seedy poops in the woods (Queen Electric Butt Prober BZZ), Friday, 7 January 2005 11:11 (twenty years ago)

fauxhemian, can you afford to work for nothing? If so then you might be able to get a placement at a company you'd actually like to work for - if it's film you're after, make a list of all the places you'd like to work, find a contact name and get in touch. If you can do 6 months hard work, proving yourself invaluable and making contacts, you may find it turns into something more concrete and actually salaried.

(I'm assuming you live somewhere with a film industry here)

just realize that you need to shoot for as high as possible as soon as possible

I can't see how this can be good advice.

Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 7 January 2005 12:09 (twenty years ago)

don't send resumes, send articles. but why bother with papers when you could be an heroic INTERWEB JOURNALIST?? placements are in general for shit unless you *really* want to work it: they're unlikely to actually take you where you want to go.

henry miller, Friday, 7 January 2005 12:18 (twenty years ago)

I was in a similar situation when I left college. I worked multiple jobs in retail and food service along with some part-time admin stuff on weekends, moved in with family to save money, and generally had a miserable year of disillusionment before I managed to move to a city where I got a job in my field, and after another year, went to grad school.

Everyone else I knew from college who didn't go immediately to grad school was in the exact same job situation for a year after graduation also. You work in retail, you work in a restaurant, whatever, there's nothing wrong with doing that to earn money while you're looking for something in your field. I think that kind of work is much harder than an office-type job anyway, and you seem to be looking down on it a little in your inital post. Employers want to see gaps in your resume accounted for, and you can describe any menial jobs using terms of transferable skills.

When I worked for a large chain bookstore, I was working with a whole spectrum of people, from those who barely graduated high school, those who had taken bookstore jobs after college and still didn't know what other career to go for, people who'd worked in retail for years and were used to it or good at it, to people with master's degrees who simply couldn't find any other kind of job in our area at the time.

I have to say though, if you have no student loan debt, I have much less sympathy for your situation. Count yourself lucky you got your BA for free and you don't have to worry about the day your grace period ends and you're still making minimum wage and living with family and paying health insurance costs.

sgs (sgs), Friday, 7 January 2005 12:55 (twenty years ago)

1. Download movable type and get yourself a $5/month hosting account that offers Unix w/ Perl and MySQL installations, and learn CSS
2. Start a Blog about something you know about that other people don't know so much about, BESIDES YOUR FUCKING DAY-TO-DAY LIFE AND CLEVER OBSERVATIONS ON THE HUMAN CONDITION AS REFLECTED BY YOUR LACK OF DECENT FURNITURE AND POOR DIET sorry that wasn't directed at anyone in particular
3. Sell ads. No it won't feed you one month to the next. Sorry. Oh and learn to deal with comment spam, have fun with that one
4. Add "MySQL/Linux/MovableType3.x/Content Management/" type junk on to your resume and at the least you should be able to find some kind of job with that that pays more than $10 an hour

This is just an example I can think of off the top of my head of what I'd do if I was in your position, similar to the one I was in in 1999 but not as bad since you actually have a degree. I wound up enlisting in the USAF and that was the second best decision I've ever made.

The bottom line, though, is that if you expect to get decent employment resting on your laurels you're fucked, fucked, fucked. If you are not in a job that is expanding your skill set, you should be learning new things in your off time, as above - if you are LOOKING for a job you should not be looking for just any old office shit that can get you paid but for opportunities to build your repertoire and learn, learn, learn.

The only reason I'm putting up with my current employer's idiotic HR system and working in this shithole city at this point is because they offer full tuition reimbursement and they basically pick up and learn whatever the fuck I want while I work. I get to play with ridiculously expensive shit and fool around with anything I want as long as I can remotely justify it - by the time I leave here I'm going to be overqualified for my own job. That's what you should be shooting for right now, at least IMHO, I mean I could get back to you in a few years and tell you how it all turned out but every boss I've had so far seems to think I'm on the right track.

TOMBOT, Friday, 7 January 2005 13:23 (twenty years ago)

(and get off ILX)

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 7 January 2005 14:46 (twenty years ago)

Wow, OK, lots on my plate, thanks folks. For the record, I certainly wasn't expecting to find a job just sitting on my duff ('duff', yikes) -- I knew it would take several months+ of searching. I just didn't know what to do besides piddle around in the want ads, so all of your suggestions are helping. And sgs, I've really got no problem swilling it for retail and food services if I need to -- it just bothers me when some of these employers act like their jobs are manna from heaven to be begged for (as the current market situation allows).

And Daria, thanks a lot for the boost. I lose track of my qualifications when I'm not sure how to apply them, so your suggestions are suggestions + a reminder. BTW, you mentioned that DC's still looking fairly OK jobwise... what other cities are OK-ish or at least better than dismal ones in everyone's estimation? (I'm not totally counting out a relocation.)

fauxhemian (fauxhemian), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:31 (twenty years ago)

ILX in "not providing much helpful optimistic advice on attempting to live in the real world" shocker! Hmm. Not that I've wound up doing a ton of job-searching, but my advice would actually be not to wring your hands too much and sell yourself over-short. Resumes don't really say that much, in the end, and so potential employers don't really know that much about you: if you can summon up the courage to put out great cover letters and really work interviews well -- i.e., not shivering and thinking you're obviously underqualified for things but rather getting out there and looking people in the eye and saying "I'm a smart person and I can handle this thing" -- you might be surprised by what you can get. This involves a lot of legwork and wide-net casting and not just scanning listings for jobs you're actually right for and qualified for.

Depending on your grad-school plans there is also, at worst, the possibility of jobs that don't pertain to what you'd like to do: the fact remains that there will always be plenty of employment like this. My first post-college job search included, at one point, nearly going to an interview for some generalized functionary desk job at the phone company: it paid a salary and had benefits, if nothing else. (I think I also half-declined to move to central Illinois and possibly work for State Farm.) If you can afford to take low or no pay to get a foothold in something you care about, then by all means go for it. But don't worry too much that you'll starve to death for lack of anything: there tend to be decently-paid utilitarian things you can do for a year or two while you try try try and wait wait wait to find the right opening in your area.

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:48 (twenty years ago)

i will also try to read/post inane questions to this thead when i feel a little more lively. i was ignoring it earlier because i kinda assume there's a vast gulf b/w grad/notgrad

John (jdahlem), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:11 (twenty years ago)

Construction. Even at day labor places you should clear $8-10. (Though if you're from the north, I don't know what the construction market is like, do they just stop working outdoors during the winter?)

you stop working and start collecting seasonal unemployment!!!

Matt B. (Matt B.), Friday, 7 January 2005 23:35 (twenty years ago)

Hey, I majored in film and I've had all kinds of crazy funny good and (in their own ways) vaguely desirable jobs! You will find something!

.adam (nordicskilla), Friday, 7 January 2005 23:43 (twenty years ago)

Thanks for adding so much, Nabisco. You're a saint.

Danzig and Jeanne-Claude (deangulberry), Friday, 7 January 2005 23:48 (twenty years ago)

Wow John was slow on this one. Normally he comes in ragging on liberal arts degrees by the third or fourth post of the thread.

I have two bachelors degrees (and one is in theatre). I've had jobs related to both of my degrees. I've hated some and loved others (and hate and love weren't related to which area of expertise the job was in... both had their ups and downs).

And yes, my second bachelors is in Computer Engineering, which I realize is more marketable, but either way I have only ever had the liberal arts degree work in a positive way. It's totally possible to write a cover letter that spins your background however you want to spin it. I'm not an amazingly good programmer, but I've always been able to get employed because I can spin my background to sound like my "people skills" and "communication skills" are way above average. (I've no idea how good they really are compared to the average.)

martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 7 January 2005 23:56 (twenty years ago)

are you talking to me and who are you?? i don't even know what lib arts degrees is dude.

John (jdahlem), Saturday, 8 January 2005 00:06 (twenty years ago)

Oh, nope. Not you John. The other John. The John who way upthread posted this:

YOU MAJORED IN LIBERAL ARTS; YOU'RE GAY!
-- LSD ARISTOCAT

Ragging on liberal arts degrees is kinda his schtick.

I'm martin m. Who are you?

martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 8 January 2005 00:10 (twenty years ago)

that would be JON. i'm John.

John (jdahlem), Saturday, 8 January 2005 00:11 (twenty years ago)

Oh, right. Well now that that's cleared up.

martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 8 January 2005 00:18 (twenty years ago)

five years pass...

I don't think it's necessary to discourage perfectly well-rounded and enthusiastic people from applying for a lot of different jobs. Going to interviews is essential life experience, even if you don't get the job. If you view it that way you're in much better shape in the long run.

The Rich Man's 8-Track (u s steel), Monday, 27 September 2010 13:05 (fourteen years ago)


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