How do I avoid feeling suicidal over stupid obsessive crushes?

Very much "how could I ever have thought that she'd like ME"

(of course, the still-rational side of me says: this is all very premature. I don't know the other man. I didn't recognise his name at all. God knows what *she* thinks of him, or if she'll even phone him)

I want to dig things into my arms and legs to remind me I'm still here.

(xpost)

Yes! I said "does living with your parents feel a bit like being a teenager again?" They can hardly ground her daughter; she's only 2.

(I'm living with mine too at the moment)

Well, ILX was the first substitute for "someone" i could find.

also, listen to some smiths records.

Don't have a therapist at the moment - the last time I saw one was about 9 months ago. I haven't even been on a doctor's list since then.

I can sympathise. A woman at work is driving me crazy, but I'm competing with her partner which is even worse, believe me.

The other guy is probably an idiot, so don't waste too much time worrying about him. Like I'm doing, try to concentrate on winning her over in tiny increments. These battles CAN be won in time!

(xposts)

(I think *she* might have been a Smiths fan herself - she's the right age, and has shown a passing aquaintance with the titles of not-that-well-known Smiths songs)

(xpost xlots)

I'm a fairly recent-starter at the company, so I don't really want to have to take time off work to see a therapist. I've seen how people who want to take lots of sick-leave get treated by their managers

(admittedly, by managers who aren't *my* managers, but I'm worried there might be a Company Culture at work)

yes, I know this is a crap excuse, and I should be putting my own health first.

This is bordering on stalker behavior. Stop it.

My advice is to not date people at work, I believe Alex is right about that, but since you like her already, ask her out. If she says yes, great, if she says no, then no harm, no foul. Just take deep breaths - if she says no, it is not the end of the world. It seems like it, but it's not. It just isn't. You win some, you lose some, but the point is that you live to crush another day.

So, I log onto the server as Administrator and read their email.

Seriously, logged out. If that's not a sign that you're spending too much time and effort worrying about this then I don't know what is.

It's tough, but find something you enjoy doing that has nothing to do with this person and do it. You'll start feeling better the minute you can get your mind off of the subject for an extended period of time. If you can do something that involves other people (besides telling them about your situation), that's probably the easiest quick way to get your mind off of it. Exercise helps lift your mood as well. Even just taking a walk.

If you are seriously having suicidal thoughts, find a hotline and call. I'm not saying you need to be in therapy or that you need to check yourself in somewhere, but the folks on the other end of those phone lines are much better equipped to help you with your feelings than your family members, friends, or anyone on a message board.

you are fighting for your life right now. nothing as trivial as work matters or scheduling issues should get in the way of the support you need.

(xposts)

here's the thing: you've lost perspective. hey, i've been there, so have a lot of us. your life without her wouldn't be so awful as to require you to sacrifice yourself for no reason...but you aren't even giving it a chance. take a step back: you've got a job, your family wasn't washed away in a tsunami, you have plenty to be grateful about. so since you don't, it is obviously depression or some other brain chemical thing, in league with some therapy, that you need. please do yourself a favor. whoever you are, we'd like you around for a while longer.

but stop with the admin privileges stuff, getting sacked will not help your mood or your chances

mostly i was getting at what haibun just said much more eloquently, about losing perspective. listen to haibun, logged out, he is wise.

yeah, I missed that little detail first time around. Seriously, you have crossed a bit of a tempestuous Rubicon there and you need to unplug and abandon the whole thing. For your own sake, if not the sake of the other individuals involved. You're going down the wrong road.

i'm not sure why i'm posting here cuz i don't really do the love thing so i'll stop now. just don't kill yourself dude, that'd be really fucking stupid.

This is a separate issue from the whole "suicide=revenge" aspect of things, which I agree is a stupid and cruel thing to do. Honestly, though, the number of people that would be upset at my death can probably be counted on two hands, if not one.

But, anyway, I don't want to get started on that.

I *had* opportunities, and I've wasted them. I did a degree, but I've never used it. I tried to do a PhD, and dropped out. I'm way down on the payscale ladder, still living with my parents, in a dead-end town. As I said, I don't have any friends, and the only people I see from day to day, apart from my parents, are the people I work with. The only people who ever move away from here are people who move away at 18. I tried that, and didn't make it.

I've already wasted my chances in life, and I can't see myself getting any more.

(oh, and incidentally: there was a news story the other day: my home town is the hardest place in the country to find a date. Lovely.)

why would it be realy fucking stupid? partly cuz if you post here regularly i probably like you a lot but mostly because of what luna says; you're kinda young to die. i read somewhere once that the highest rate of suicides is in the very elderly - because those people literally have nothing more to live for but death itself, and they know it. really fucking depressing, yes, but do you realize what those people would give to be in your god damn shoes? don't throw away what you've got, and don't fucking tell us you don't have anything either. if whatever you're doing now isn't working, then do something else, but don't fucking kill yourself. that's just dumb.

my life ain't exactly peaches and yeah, i'm gripped by the occasional deathwish, but i've never once seriously considered acting on it. i mean i do stupid dangerous things to myself but such is masculinity.

xpost actually you sound kinda like me!

I admire Martha Gellhorn a lot; but I wonder, sometimes, what made her choose to end her life exactly when she did.

(on my bedroom wall there's a great newspaper-clipping photo of Martha Gellhorn in a field, dressed in tweed and holding a rifle)

I know it's going to be hard on me, but I don't know how long I can cope with it being hard for. Moreover, I'm still going to have to work alongside *her* - closely alongside her at the moment, too.

I know it sounds like there is an obvious path that I'm blocking with stupid excuses like "oh, I don't have time". From my point of view, though, they're large problems.

I don't have much going for me in my life at the moment but preparing (from scratch) and cooking my own meals at weekends does help to take my mind off more depressing matters.

There's no evidence that she *is* dating somebody else other than what the Office Gossip has told me. I do not trust the Office Gossip. She is one of those people who, herself, is convinced that she *doesn't* gossip, but just goes up to people to say "i'm not a gossip, but I wanted you to know that..." Plus, she is one of the people who set the woman (let's call her C, it's easier) up on last week's date to start with. She doesn't know I know that. Ever since the prospect of this date came up (ie, the top of this thread) she has been telling me that C isn't interested, but none of the things she says match up with C's actual behaviour. She also always says "C hasn't told me what she thinks of you. I don't know what she thinks. It's hard to tell. But this is my interpretation." Of course, I don't know if that's true either. I have no way of knowing if C *is* actually seeing someone unless she tells me herself.

I know you're all going to say "you're still fooling yourself". The truth is that the whole thing is a big grey area. All I know for sure is that a) C probably did go on a date with somebody b) when I found out about that, it made her very upset.

I'm also aware that none of this helps my underlying problems at all. Some of these are problems I could treat with therapy, (possibly) medication, etc. Some of them, I'm damn sure, aren't just going to go away. Whatever I try to do about them.

first, to logged out. i think it's interesting that you assume that your crush went from a smile in the morning to tears in the afternoon, and it had anything to do with you. how do you know she didn't just get bad news about a friend, had a surly clerk help her over lunch or just got a bad papercut? it sounds like you need to take a step back and realise that, chances are, her life doesn't revolve around you in the same way that yours revolves around her. i know that sounds a little harsh, but i just wanted to point it out since nobody else had addressed that specific point.

second, marcello, there's no need to attack kate for what she said. you've said several other times on threads that you've been offered help and care from friends recently, but prefer to stay as you are. some people could classify this as making a decision to not 'improve' things. i think you're right that nobody asks to be depressed, and it would be cruel and silly to assume that someone does. but it's worth at least thinking about the 'wallowing' vs. 'seeking help' spectrum, and where logged out might be on it...

(this was an xpost to logged out's xpost)

I *am* positive that that was what she was doing, incidentally. It's happened once before.

Anyway, as I said, I'm not saying this *is* how you're feeling. It's just a possible reading of it. Tell me if I'm totally wrong.

(Colette is very perceptive in her response, I think)

I'm still in a masking-my-own-upset-with-hyperactivity phase at the moment. It's partly cyclical - earlier today, and some of the time yesterday, I had trouble dragging myself out of my office. At the moment this might be caffeine related - right now, I can't stop tapping my feet. It's getting annoying.

My anonymous threads *do* get many more responses than any I start when I'm logged in - maybe I am being a little attention-seeky here.

eh? where? i see no ships!

This joke would make more sense if you were Momus, I admit.

But really I think it's a correct assertion in any context. What's up today to make you turn your loathing outwards once again?

(xpost - you thought I was talking about myself? Ha)

However - I would say the best thing to do is to get yourself out of the situation for a few days to give your head the chance to clear. I agree with those who have said that you're projecting etc.

Also - simplify things and disregard the office gossip - she sounds like a nasty piece of work who likes stirring the pot for her own sport.

Oh, you don't want to know my problems Mark!

You can't be sure she's not just saying that, because she feels scared or uncomfortable around you to begin with. I'm not saying that's the case, but it is a possibility.

there's some good practical advice here that i'll echo in summary:
1. stay away from The Gossip. she's not doing you any good. i don't think a makeover is inherently bullying, but it sounds like she's making her own pathetic life interesting by turning yours into a personal soap opera. just stop confiding in her, stop listening to her, try to stay away.

2. give the whole situation some space, and if you can, try to take it down a notch. chances are, she's sensed your extreme interest, which can be a bit unnerving if it's unrecriprocated (or even if she likes you a bit, but is wary that you like her so so much more). if you can convince yourself that a bit of a friendship is possible and a way to actually have her in your life, all the better.

3. in the same way, it's fine for you to ask what was wrong on monday, with two key things to look out for. first, actually listen to what she says-- don't read too much into it! second, try to put yourself in the mind of a caring friend first, so it doesn't sound like you're creepily capitalising on her pain.

4. if you don't think that's possible, give the short game a go, but with the proper rules. ask her out in a clear and unambiguous way ('i'm interested in dating you. would you like to go out with me sometime?' is a sample) that states your interest and allows her to give you a clear answer. then you have to take her at her word. if you do this, you have to let it go if she says no. no buts.

4. try, as much as you can, to stop reading things into the situation. it doesn't sound like you're completely imagining things, and i agree with mark that you seem clever and nice, so i'm advising you as a 'nice person' rather than a 'creep'. but sometimes you have to take people at their word. and if she says 'i'm not ready,' that's that, and you need to give her time and space. which is often really hard, but necessary, if you don't want the whole thing to end up with a blow up like pink described.

good luck with the whole thing, it doesn't sound fun, but hopefully you'll at least have a better idea of what's going on sometime soon.

(xpost x2)

Not that I'm implying that you're one, LO - just a general observation.

Colette's first point 4 is on the money. I suspect she'll say no, but it is the quickest and most honest way of sorting stuff out. Just don't do it in the middle of the office or in front of anyone else (but similarly, don't corner her when she's on her own).

FWIW, I'd think about this comment, too. It sounds as if, to some degree, you're crushing on this person not out of genuine admiration, shared interests, etc., but clutching at her like a life raft. That's not only unhealthy, it won't make for a good relationship if it happens. No one (and maybe I'm generalizing too much from my own experience here) likes to be a misery sponge.

BY GEOFF HAGGERTY
- - - -

All questions will have more than one correct answer. Please choose the BEST response for each question.

Paragraph A:

Her leg brushed up against yours.

Questions 1-24 will be based on Paragraph A.

1. Did she do that on purpose?
a) Yes.
b) No.
c) Maybe.
d) Don't know.

2. Why would she do that?
a) She still loves you.
b) She still likes you.
c) She still wants to have sex with you.
d) She still wants you to think one of the above.

3. Wait. Did she even notice it?
a) Maybe.
b) It doesn't look like it.
c) She's just pretending not to notice.
d) Don't know.

4. Maybe she did it subconsciously?
a) She wants you back.
b) She feels what you feel and doesn't know how to express it either. You can learn together.
c) Maybe.
d) No, she did it on purpose.

5. She's probably just teasing you.
a) Probably.
b) No, she wouldn't do that.
c) Maybe she did it to tease you but forgot how much it would hurt you and regretted it immediately.
d) Maybe.

6. Why would she do that?
a) To give herself an ego boost.
b) Always liked to see you suffer.
c) Because she can and she knows you can't do anything about it. Not can't. Won't.
d) Don't know.

7. Her leg is still touching yours.
a) Ooh!
b) She's evil.
c) She probably thinks it's just the table leg.
d) Don't know.

8. Now she's waggling it up and down.
a) Oh my God.
b) She's evil.
c) She definitely thinks it's just the table leg.
d) It's more of a nervous tremble than a waggle.

9. Should you move your leg away?
a) Yes.
b) Yes, but it feels so good.
c) Maybe.
d) Just don't know.

10. She probably doesn't even notice.
a) She has to notice.
b) Move it anyway, to show that you're being considerate, even if she doesn't notice.
c) But wouldn't moving it make her notice your legs were touching and then she might think that you put your leg there on purpose?
d) Grah! Don't know!

11. Isn't that a little weird that you want to keep your leg touching hers?
a) Yes.
b) YES.
c) She smells amazing.
d) Yes.

12. But is it really weird? You're a human being after all.
a) Yeah, but aren't we supposed to be more civilized?
b) Tactile comfort is essential according to Harry Harlow.
c) Yes and barely.
d) Don't frickin' know.

13. Why isn't she making eye contact?
a) She notices your dumb leg.
b) Because you've been thinking about your dumb leg instead of talking to her.
c) You're ugly.
d) Honestly, at this point you need to get your life in order before worrying about small things like that.

14. She's probably thinking about someone else.
a) Definitely.

15. Someone better than you.
a) Yup.

Vocabulary

16. In this paragraph, what does "brushed up against" mean?
a) gently grazed
b) banged clumsily into
c) kicked
d) might not have brushed up against

True/False. Indicate whether the following statements are true or false.

17. You're too good for her.
18. Even if she asked you back you would say no.
19. You're probably not ready for a relationship right now anyway.
20. She's gotten fat.
21. You shouldn't have to pay, right? She invited you.

Essay questions:

22. What's wrong with you?
23. When will things start going your way?
24. Get a job.

Paragraph B:

She just asked what your friend Jake was up to lately.

- - - -

(xpost)

I've been on both sides of the equation - crusher and crushee. Neither is very pleasant. Though to be quite honest, this doesn't actually sound like a genuine "I want to be with this person" crush, it sounds more like a Thoughtworm, an obsession.

A lot of the time, when I am crushing on another person in this sort of way, it's because I think that getting the crushee would somehow *fix* me. Life doesn't actually work that way. Often "getting" the object of your affections makes you *more* anxious and unhappy, rather than less because once you have something or someone that you care about, all you can think about is losing them.

I know that it's not helpful for people to say "Don't obsess!" because if you have an obsessive type mind, that's like asking someone not to breathe or not to eat. Find something else to obsess on. Maybe some little insoluble problem at work - I develop "pet aligators" - database issues which are never going to be solved completely, but that I can waste hours of time being completely absorbed in finding a workaround solution, and totally lose myself in the process.

Often one finds oneself waiting for signs and omens - for example, if the person responds to an email or text, that means that they want the relationship to continue. Or you find yourself obsessively reading horoscopes looking for some advice of something that will happen to you. This isn't helpful. It only makes you more of a passive agent in your own life.

You're probably treating the office gossip in the same way - looking for some sign or signal or person to tell you what to do. They don't have any answers, and you will get hurt if you let a malicious person be your Guide.

Anyway... all this advice is probably a bit too late anyway. Hope that you are able to be strong and puzzle your way through this.

Hahaha! OTM!

I've been avoiding the gossip, but that's not hard, because she's not being particularly chatty with me either - in fact, she hasn't looked her usual self either. Haven't had chance to try to talk to C herself yet. My favourite co-worker went out of his way to find out what everyone else in the office knew about C's date, and passed the info on. Not feeling very good at all today - have been studying Multimap to find places where footpaths cross express railway lines.

There's another option to think about - it sounds like you do actually have some friends in the office who are concerned enough about you to want to help out. That's not helpful in that they may be helping to propegate the thoughtworm/obsession, even as they are trying to help you out. (If people like you, they want you to be happy, and may be unintentionally helping the obsession if it makes you *act* happy.) But it is helpful in that you have friends at work - try talking to the third parties about other stuff, not necessarily the Crush, but just chatting stuff. It can make you feel more connected.

Hours of entertainment. But be careful! It is *not* for divination or fortune telling purposes.

(insert "And remember... death is a *good* card!" jokes here...)

Though I would take "easier to not live" in a metaphorical sense, rather than an actual physical sense. It's always easier *not* to do something that's hard. It takes courage to do something.

We had another, more private conversation later on. I said: "[The Gossip] told me you went on a date last week". She said: she didn't like to call it that, because it was very casual, just meeting up for a drink with someone. I didn't like to probe about it.

She *is* a very blunt-speaking person.