This is the thread where you recommend a college for my daughter

Oberlin's got a good reputation, particularly for their music program, but from what I know has more of a small lib. arts campus feel and thus less of a uni vibe than the others. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) UMichigan Ann Arbor is supposed to have a good grad writing program, but I'm not sure how this would trickle down to the undergrad classes.

I'm biased towards MA because I went to college there, but what about somewhere in the 5-colleges area? (Amherst, etc) That could give her an opportunity to sample classes at several very different kinds of schools.

might be worth looking into the residential college, specifically. (one of the many colleges at U of M) i think they do a lot of creative writing, and have their own scholarship programs. everyone i know that did it really liked it.

xpost with sgs-- you said michigan because it's great!

xpost..."big beads" wtf

Do a google for the US News and World Report Rankings, they factor in value for the money.

Also, for a smaller college, my financial aid was always pretty good.

Dave225 may be right about Oberlin: even though I ended up not applying there, it seemed like even if I'd gotten scholarships, it'd still be too expensive. (This was sort of true of Macalester, too, which I did apply to.)

I would suggest, however, to keep other small liberal arts colleges in the mix, in case she decides she's interested in this kind of environment. I couldn't decide for a really long time whether I wanted to go to a big state school or a small liberal arts college, and I was happy to have applied to both kinds of schools so I could make that choice when I was ready. (I ended up at the tiny Kalamazoo College in Michigan and now can't imagine why I ever would've wanted to go to a large, impersonal university.)

But yeah: check out that U.S. News issue to get an idea of what small colleges are in your area (I'm assuming she wants to stay in the East/South) -- although I'd be careful not to put TOO much stock in those rankings, which don't really tell the whole story. I'm sure there's a feeling of "only-the-very-best-for-my-baby," but I'd wager that any college within the first two tiers is pretty good. (I guess I'm speaking as a graduate of a second-tier school, though, haha.)

Noodles, I think she'd prefer to stay in the states the first year or two of college, until she gets the hang of being out on her own.

As far as expense, right now we're at the point of making out the wish list without too many delimiters. Over the next year we'll be excluding on the basis of cost, etc.

jaymc: Emory is on the radar screen, yes!

Please, keep it coming!

It might be too pricey for out of state though.

I would vote for my own alma mater, Virginia Commonwealth University, but it might be too urban. And academically, she could do better by virtue of her GPA.

As with Lauren, I'm totally available to answer questions. She's probably better at that than I am, though.

http://www.bard.edu/academics/programs/programs.php?id=779023&pid=797

Director: Robert Kelly
Phone: 845-758-7205
E-mail: kelly@bard.edu

Director: Peter Sourian
Phone: 845-758-7212
E-mail: sourian@bard.edu

Faculty:
John Ashbery
Mary Caponegro
Robert Kelly
Verlyn Klinkenborg
Ann M. Lauterbach
Joan Retallack
Peter Sourian
William Weaver

i guess bradford morrow isn't there anymore? i dunno.

(Not intended as a slam against anybody in particular, just something to keep in mind.)

Reed College in Portland, OR might be worth looking into. They have a strong English program, are fairly prestigious but get ranked lower because they're non-traditional. Lots of hippies.

A young, maybe not so well-known option might be Texas State University - San Marcos. They're building a writing program, they've got a few big name authors on faculty (Tim O'Brien I remember). Texas schools are pretty decent on cost and generous for good students (to keep them from going to UT-Austin or elsewhere)

Wellesley. :-) They actually are pretty generous with financial aid because they have a huge endowment. My sister and I both went there... I could post a lot of reasons why I loved it (you get a single dorm room your last two years! close to Boston! beautiful campus! you can take classes at MIT! it has a lake!), but they might not be things she would like. In any event, if you're looking at New England schools, you should check it out.

Hmm... which school totatlly doesn't fit? Does she want to go to a school like 1,2,3 or does she want to go to a school like Oberlin? I mean, Ole Miss and Oberlin?! Those schools are totally different.

If she wants to go to a smallish, alternative-type, liberal arts college, then I recommend adding some more schools of that type to your list. Otherwise you've got all your eggs in one school's basket.

Why just Oberlin? There are numerous similar schools with varying strengths and weaknesses. Do some research.

Also, I wouldn't put too much stock in the strength of the creative writing program. We're talking about undergrad, right? It's entirely possible that she'll take one creative writing class, and decide that she doesn't dig on it. And she'll probably never be taught by some big-name prof at a university.

Next day he comes in to sign the loan papers and hands me a copy of an essay I had written on the first day of class in 1970. Wow!

I don't understand for a minute what binds the schools you're looking at. Part of it is the different structure of the institutions you're looking at. But perhaps a bigger part of it is that I see universities as demographic collections of students. Yes, there are a few professors around, and college is often what you make of it, but your academic (and non-academic) experience is going to be significantly influenced by the people around you. Duke is an Eastern (mixed South and North) college within a semi-major private university that is widely regarded as one of the better/best in the country but whose student body is also widely (perhaps unfairly) regarded as not having a particularly academically/intellectually serious bent, relatively speaking (i.e. compared to some ivy league-type schools), and being more party-oriented than many schools of the type. Ole Miss is a Deep Southern public state university that surely isn't terrible but is not of any particular renown, and socially I don't know. Oberlin is a well- (but not highly-)regarded small/medium-ish Great Lakes/Northeastern liberal arts college with a good number of students who are relatively serious and some notable faculty. It is one of the most politically liberal schools in the country and has no major social life of the type typically associated with big schools. Overall, it doesn't sound like there's a particularly clear idea of what is desired here.

For the record, my sister went to Oberlin. I don't know much about the place. I went there once for graduation (where it poured). The area around the campus wasn't not pretty, but it seemed like a pretty depressing place to spend 4 years. And, as much as I hate and find completely meaningless the term, for lack of a better one, it strikes me as a rather "PC" place in a way that may inhibit intellectual development. I think my sister was happy there - she was really into the coop thing, which sounded pretty fun if you got into it - but I know that she's happier in the real world. Cleveland did seem very cool, but it's a world away.

As for Reed, my impression is that it's a lot like Oberlin, if it were in a good location, but with lesser academic standards (and corresponding self-selection among the student body).

Maybe I'm just biased in favor of large research universities in major metropolitan areas.

NO, Top 10 not 10%.

Says the girl who was ranked ELEVEN

state universities are often cheaper than private ones, but also often much more expensive to out-of-state students. it sounds like your daughter wants to attend school in a medium-sized town in the Midwest or Southeast. there are lots of good state universities that fit the bill, notably those of Michigan, Virginia, Wisconsin, North Carolina, Iowa and Illinois. private universities that would fit the bill include Vanderbilt (if Nashville isn't too large), Notre Dame, William and Mary, and Wake Forest. private liberal arts colleges would include (on a quite demographically varied list) Carleton, Davidson, Washington and Lee, Grinnell, Macalester, Kenyon and Sewanee (noted for its writing program, I believe, but again I wouldn't go by that). of course, Oberlin is probably better than all of those except Carleton, with which it may be comparable, though I may underrate the Southern ones.

a liberal arts college is going to bring you into closer contact with the people around you, professors especially. but i favor universities because the people around you are less homogenous and the faculty is generally of better quality.

you should definitely look at the US News rankings. not because they're gospel (they're rather silly actually) but because they give you a general idea of academic quality/reputation. the number 10 school is by no means better than the number 15; it may be worse. but the number 10 school is probably better by some degree than the number 30. pay special attention to the peer assessment score, selectivity rank and acceptance rate.

http://www.smcm.edu/

If you are looking for a liberal arts college, there are a lot of liberal arts colleges out there that many not ring a bell the moment you hear the name, but will nevertheless offer a terrific education. Really a huge advantage will be the small class size and more personal approach, whereas at a large public university (such was my brother's experience) you hardly know your professors and are kind of lost in the shuffle of tens of thousands of students. Gabbneb, I realize there are advantages but.. how many of the excellent faculty actually teach and how many shuffle most of that work off to TAs? You ought to do a lot more research into small liberal arts schools if that is what you want. Also, what about Mary Washington College in Virginia?

i can't imagine that accepting MUW then UNC would have serious consequences unless she meant to play NCAA sports.

whatever happens, make her stay away from atlanta cause i hear chipper jones is a cheater!

MUW is a done deal. Sarah accepted their offer in January and it's all been taking care of the details since then. There was an early-registration session in March where she worked out her fall schedule -- in a fit of too-much enthusiasm, she signed up for 19 hours, which she will probably cut back to 15 during the first week of classes.

Freshman Orientation was last week and went very well, half a dozen new friends within 24 hrs. The MUW bookstore is not very good, and I had sticker shock at the textbook prices compared to '81-85, when I was in college. (I bought my Riverside Shakespeare new for $25 back then.) We're going to try to get a textbook list from her instructors and buy from Amazon marketplace sellers in late July/early Aug.

Right now she's staying up all night reading and writing, then sleeping until noon or one. It wouldn't hurt my feelings at all if she got a job.

We're waiting to hear about an NASE scholarship, but I'm not holding my breath.

You might want to check ABEBooks for textbooks too. New ones are scandalously priced. I paid $180 for a skinny little one for a design class (brand new too, so no used ones available), and then we barely opened it. Ridiculous.

Well congrats on having one leave the nest!

smart guys

Kiddo realized today that her binder full of DVDs, her entire collection, was missing. After a couple of hours of controlled panic, she had the phone in her hand to call the campus police when it turned up down the hall in another room. One of the other girls is a borrower and a forgetter-to-bring-backer, and was looking for a movie to watch.

Last word from Sarah to Judy was, "I'm going to dinner now, see if you can calm Dad down some."

So...grad schools. Museum science programs. Recommendations?

one of my best friends is like a top gun fighter pilot of museum science stuff - i'll email her and see what she thinks

Cool, thanks!

She's been looking at the Geo. Washington Univ. program and drooling.

The Curatorial Practice program at CCA is good, but probs expensive...that said, they gave me lots of money.

c/ped from the response from my friend:

JJ,
My program was pretty awesome, and also pretty reasonable: Seton Hall Univ. in South Orange, NJ which is right outside (12 miles) New York City. All of my classes were in the evening, which had 2 benefits: 1. you could work, and 2. your professors were all professionals in the field. I had the director of marketing at MOMA for a class. I had a development person at the Met for another class. Head registrar at the Newark Museum also taught at Seton Hall (she doesn't anymore) and became my mentor, and really helped me start my career (she was named one of the 100 most influential people in museums, on a list with like the founders of the Met and whatnot). Making those kinds of connections is invaluable in this field. The strengths of my program were the collections/registration department (which is what I do) and the education department (museum educator is kind of like being a teacher without having to grade or discipline). One of their education teachers, Claudio Ocello, is a powerhouse in the museum education field. She wins awards and stuff constantly, and is a highly visible figure in the museum world.
I have heard that George Washington Univ in DC has a very good program, but i think it's pretty pricey. It's actually the most expensive private school in America. yikes.
The University of the Arts in Philly has a program, but it's only real strength is in exhibitions, and I think you must have a strong background in fine art/design to get in and do well.
SUNY (State University of New York) in Cooperstown has a great program for people interested in history museums and historic houses. It's considered fabulous and it's fairly cheap b/c it's a state school. Pretty competetive, so tell your friend to work harder on her application that I did (I didn't get in - boo hoo).
I don't know of much in the Midwest. There are new museum studies programs springing up all the time, but the ones i mentioned above are some of the oldest in the US (Seton Hall's is about 15 years old now). There are also great programs in the UK, and I think they are only one year. The UK has been training in this field much longer than the US. If your friend has a couple in mind, let me know and I'll ask some folks in the field what they think.

Thanks, JJ! Have passed info along, and will likely have questions/requests for advice on this thread as the school year progresses.

further addendum:

Oh the Univ. or Delaware is supposed to have an excellent program, and i think it's kinda cheap. I would recommend that one, definitely.

Moved her back to school last weekend for her last undergrad semester btw. Seems like just a year or two ago that I started this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as3UlEsvwXo

Graduating with honors today.

congrats!!

World conquest to follow!

That's the plan!

I went to UTEP and hated it.

Congrats, Grizzly!

CONGRATULATIONS!

Congratulations!

all my friends graduated today but I am still stuck at tech for a couple more years

(Also congrats WmC's daughter!!!)

Thanks everyone! We just got home with the "kid" and all her stuff.

May I brag a bit more? Sarah graduated summa cum laude, fourth in her class of about 600. Whahey, half those genes came from me!

that's an amazing achievement. what's she planning to do next?

A bit of R&R, learning to drive and getting her license, finding and buying a car, finding a job (not sure how easy that'll be around here with a 13% unemployment rate), researching grad schools and financial aid possibilities with an eye toward a Masters program starting, uh, fall '11 I guess?

grad school is a good place to be when the economy's bad. i really enjoyed grad school, now that i think about it (i enjoyed law school, too, but it had such a different vibe and intensity level).

Taking a year off = very, very, VERY wise.

Yeah, that's the general agreement among us three. She's very tired after the final push on her Honors thesis/project, and would not have been able to put the proper time and effort into researching grad school possibilities along with getting current school work done. Regroup, recharge, research the future and then DOMINATE IT UTTERLY.

Hard to believe the little boomerang child is 24 today. Maybe we can get her moved out and on her own some year.

my sister moved out of home this year (for the first time ever - she never went to college) at the ripe old age of 24. but by the way she was bitching about how useless her boyfriend is around their new house, there's a good chance she'll have moved back home by the end of the year.

i guess you could take it as a compliment on how easy you are to live with?? i moved out at 18, and moved back for about 3 months when i was 20 - it was hell on earth, and i swore that i would live in a tent before i would ever live with my parents again.

is she still looking at museum degrees?

I don't think so -- we haven't talked grad school in a few months. She's extremely loath to take on any student loan debt, and we can't help.

xp -- yeah, we're too easy to live with -- the parents who don't get on her nerves (much). We've talked seriously about this -- her childhood wasn't enough of a grain of sand to drive her to form a pearl. She's got my level of ambition, which is nil or near enough. She needs to get out of the nest.

tough out there though.

Yeah, we're not making a big deal out of rushing her out. She's itching to go, but has to accumulate some $$$ first. She's been trying to make a go of her origami jewelry Etsy shop, but after a brief flurry of activity and a couple of wedding commissions (origami reception centerpieces and bouquets), that's settled into nuthin'. She had an interview this past Friday for a promising job at City Hall, fingers crossed.