Being teetotal: Classic or Dud?

Dud. Says the man who runs a bar.

Dud. 'Nuff said.

At the moment Classic, it means my stomach's shrunk (even though it's only been 12 days for me too)

So far I've managed to sit in pubs and drink coke and I've been fine, Saturday is going to be the big test though, I haven't been clubbing sober in ages and ages.

Dud.

Once the novelty wears off - give it a few weeks - it's boring, boring, boring. (Unlike being narcotic-free, which is unreservedly classic). Would rather live without sex than without beer.

I'm very suspicious of people who don't drink. It's like they know something I don't.

I really respect people who have the willpower to be able to not drink. Or those people who have the willpower to have like, one or two, and then stop and go home. Because I'm just not one of them.

I am currently on a sobriety binge right now and I hate it. I only ever go on them for reasons of physical health or mental health, or when I do something SOOOO stupid while drunk that all my friends stop talking to me.

This probably should worry me.

I have NOT DRUNK THIS YEAR. Really. After the initial shock, it's actually been great - I have the advantage on all my friends by the end of the evening, holding strong while greater brains collapse around me. The only time I've really pined was when it's free - like you get a rider of 48 bottles and there's 3 of you and I'm wistfully saying, ok you boys get half each and I'll go find the promoter to give me some OJ.

Has not rendered me any more annoyed by pissed people than before. Also I still fit in, since I'm as much of a dick when sober as most people are drunk. Still, you really realise how much people in London put away and how completely our social world revolves around the numbing/enlivening effects of alcohol. It's easier to walk away from other bad things once you've quit booze.

Will drink again on New Year's Eve.

how completely our social world revolves around the numbing/enlivening effects of alcohol

This surprised you, how? ::ducks::

I still don't know how you go onstage sober. This, to me, is the hardest thing in the world.

Having barmaided often in the past I would never again want to be the sober one in a room full of drunkards. It is all very well looking pityingly on as the sots fall over and shout and make arses of themselves but what you should remember is that they are having FUN. This makes any sense of superiority vanish.

However for the sake of getting into smaller jeans I wish I could leave the booze alone for a bit.

I don't think drinking or NOT drinking takes willpower, nor is either option a complete dud. It depends on how you behave. If you're a drinker trying to pressure other people into drinking or you dog someone who doesn't want to have one, then that's total bullshit. The flipside is that if you are a non-drinker who then talks smack about drinkers and acts above them, then you're a total dud too. Being cool with everyone and their options (as long as they are reasonable, I'm not talking about being accepting of complete alcoholism or similar disease) is classic. Being unaccepting of other people's decisions is a dud.

Have decided I hate parties anyway, so that's no loss.

Bill

a more acheivable method to fitting into your favourite disco pants year after year is to switch to the white wine spritzer diet. less volume going in equals less volume of the waist. the bubbles are nice too.

Yes, you can tell if I am on a diet as it's white wine all the way instead of alcopops. Sadly when consumed in large enough quantities it too causes weight gain. And I'm not drinking spritzers, yuck.

Quitting drink never makes me lose weight, I always seem to binge on chocolate and fat coke to make up for my lack of alcohol. In fact, going without drink seems to make me lose weight.

I hate being the only sober person in a room full of drunks, it really made me start to hate my friends. Maybe that said something about the friends I had at the time, that the only way I could enjoy them was dead drunk. Sigh.

I, too have been off the sauce for twelve days. Does anyone have any theories as to why the first of July is such a popular date for climbing onto the wagon? My tummy is disappearing, slowly, but I'm having to do sit-ups as well.

I haven't had any problems with it yet, although I haven't really been out much. My greatest triumph has been playing darts for five hours and drinking nothing but diet coke. Jockey Wilson I ain't, but my arrows flew straighter and truer than many of the drinkers'. Like Cabbage, my big test will be Saturday night at Strange Fruit. I suspect that, around midnight, I will understand what a useful weapon booze is in the fight against high heel pain.

I lost a little weight during my (partly health-related) two months of abstention.

I am happy to announce that the sauce and I have recommenced our loving relationship. My friends, I'm home.

Huzzah, Tim's back on the sauce. Now all you kegs of funny named bitter quake as he is after you, all of you.

Dude, you people need to stop stopping-drinking-to-lose-weight and start stopping-eating-to-lose-weight. It works way faster.

I *cannot* drink on a Strange Fruit night. At all. So every one is spent completely sober. I always DJ badly after a few drinks, and play music that doesn't quite work. So I don't really drink very much at all. Didn't drink at all, really, before I knew Kate.

I think it's good to stay sober, too. There have been many situations where I've stopped very bad things happening by being sober when those around me are drunk.

Hey, Ally, that's always been my philosophy. Until the boy starts bringing home bars of WHITE CHOCOLATE but doesn't bring home BOTTLES OF VODKA.

Yeah, fine, Paul, blame your drinking habits now on me, and not on the Cowface who wouldn't let you drink before you met me. You drank loads in college, so I'm not having the blame pinned solely on me.

*arched eyebrow* Why Kate, I thought you weren't bitter. ;-)

Being a tee-totaller = CLASSIC, but then I'd say that. Actually I don't really care, but there's so few of us that I gotta give props to the others.

People equating partying (or even having fun) with binge-drinking = DUD, and kind of sad as well. To me, it's a good sign that you've become a grown-up in the worst imaginable sense of the word.

Well, as a sort of tea totaller (i always thought it pertained to drinking tea)...I think it's okay, except when you get "why aren't you drinking?"...or..."why don't you drink?"...because beer tastes disgusting and wine is foul, and it's expensive...I'll drink spirits with coke which makes me a wuss, I don't care. Also, being around drunk people is tres soul destroying and I just don't want to be drunk...so, it's neither a classic or a dud, as not drinking inhibits my social life but saves me money and keeps me in control of my mental faculties.

Mind you, I sometimes like being around drunken people, especially the kind who start getting all sentimental and telling you you're their best friend in the whole world.

Annoying in that people always go "why don't you drink". Which is occasionally good when I can work up a decent lie. Added to an exceptional memory, it means that I know what was going on at 3am. Which, however, means that people sometimes don't trust you. I'll offer this over to Tim: is/was my non-drinking disturbing to the drinking community? (Incidentally, I never use the term "teetotal")

And incidentally Tim, glad to hear you're drinking again. The world don't seem right any other way

depends on reasons etc - one of the great things I found about not drinking was that I coulds till be as obnoxious as before, but this time sober people would actually fuck off, because they realised it wasn't just the booze speaking; rearranging your entire social life from booze to something healthier like caffeine/nicotine is fucking the hardest thing ever - I lost a lot of booze/drug friends that way, but I did survive - and that's a small blessing for the real estate bastard who I'm in a court battle with right now - if I wasn't sober, there's no way I could stop msyelf from hitting the fucker...had some great drinking moments ie from the age of 12-23, but hey, a misspent youth is the only way to spend it I guess.

geoff, i can't help noticing that you seem to have led a very unusual life. no criticism btw.

Dud. I could do it if I needed to, but what's the point?

Wait, drinking spirits and coke but not beer makes you a wuss? That makes you harder than beer bingers, beer is weak as anything. Rum & coke, on the other hand, is fucking hard, and swank to boot, and actually tastes good. Rock on, anti-beer people, let's band together.

My problem when I've hung out with non-drinkers in the past (non- drinkers meaning complete non-drinkers, not "people who aren't drinking tonight", which loads of people I know do) is that they look down upon everyone else, like drinking coke instead of a margarita makes you somehow the better person, and seem to think anything above one drink is binge-drinking. I am full aware that this isn't necessarily normal behavior at all; indeed it falls under passive agression and pretty much that's unhealthy, so I reckon most people don't do that. It's just unfortunate that that's my experience, but I don't let that color my view of people who aren't drinking who are new people I don't know. One bloke at my company doesn't drink, and he's been perfectly nice to everyone and chatty and friendly every time he's come out, not at all scowly and "Well, aren't you having a bit much? That's your second one". So that's what I meant about being accepting. I'd never ask someone in a derogatory way why they don't drink - I have asked the question, because I am interested in the reasons, just as I wouldn't mind someone replying to me with an answer and then turning the question around on me, as long as it was based on interest in conversation, and not on being rude - you can tell the difference.

I just don't understand what the big deal is that it's like this unspoken war line for certain people. Not speaking of anyone here, really, just a general thing. Drink if you like the way drink tastes, don't if you don't. Happy world!

I grew up with teetotalling freaks. I drink in moderation and have not been drunk in a year. But doing something you enjoy a little but then giving it up altogether, no ?

Yeah, but if you don't like beer you're weird.

what ally said. no big deal either way

If you don't like beer, you have taste. I only drink it in circumstances that that's basically what I have to drink, ie after the softball game and everyone else is going for the beer, so I found one that I can tolerate and stick to that, but even then half the time I end up buying something else because I just hate beer.

Mark, yes your non-drinking was and is deeply disturbing but we put up with it because you are delightful.

Actually, the only thing which bothered me about your sobriety in those years was your habit of recalling some preposterous line of argument which I had been drunkenly defending to the hilt, and beating me around the head with it when I was once again sober and no longer able to think straight.

Mark, yes your non-drinking was and is deeply disturbing but we put up with it because you are delightful.

Actually, the only thing which bothered me about your sobriety in those years was your habit of recalling some brilliant line of argument which I had been drunkenly defending to the hilt, and beating me around the head with it when I was once again sober and no longer able to think straight.

Hic! Sorry!

And yes, I also don't drink anymore because most alcohol tastes like shite and I'd much rather drink water or a nicely flavoured soft beverage.

Bill

There are some people who drink who definitely shouldn't and some people who don't who probably should.

If I could combine my masterful diction post-drinking with my vocab pre-drinking ... well, I'd probably be a pretentious blowhard that drops words like change falling through a hole in your pocket. Except that you'd understand what I was actually saying.

I used to be one of those sober "oh, you're DRINKING?!?!" assholes, until I realized that it's the PEOPLE, not the DRINKING, that make the difference. (It's my own fault that I did stupid stuff while binge-drinking - who's to say that other folks are the same?) So, yeah, I'm all for kicking back a few, or not kicking back at all, as long as you're down.

Though how I became the "drinker" in my group of friends, when I drink perhaps 4 or 5 times a month (if that) (and barely drink) still puzzles me.

Didn't drink at all 16-36: a revolutionary punk rock thing. Then got bored with sober self, fell idiotically in pash with inappropriate object of interest, turned up a friend's party able to announce I'M DRUNK (I wasn't, specially, but got a GRATE CHEER ANYWAY). Most drunk I've been, New Year's Eve meal with C, D and L, four years ago (for someone so small and perfectly formed, C can fucking put it away, let me tell: w/o ANY EFFECT AT ALL... plus she'd been drinking all day with her boyf, who she left INSENIBLE IN THEIR HOTEL ROOM WHEN SHE CAME TO JOIN US NONE THE WORSE FOR WEAR). Never been so drunk the film actually broke. Alcohol keeps me awake, which I hate hate hate: so when I reach a queasy point, I switch to water and backpedal till I'm sober-ish again. To be able to sleep.

My feeling is that drinkers suspect that non-drinkers are passing judgement when they aren't (this isn't just a drinking thing: it works the same being a vegetarian, or not taking coke). I frankly couldn't care less whether anyone else is drinking or not, except there are certainly a whole lot of people who are more fun drunk. I have no interest in expanding non-drinking: if I enjoyed it, I'd drink. And despite the fact that I stopped drinking when I was 20, I could write a memoir of the last ten years based purely on the pubs and bars that have defined each little era of my life. No doubt there are prickishly self-righteous non-drinkers, but frankly you tend not to find them in bars, so who cares?

Well, I wasn't personally talking about bars at all - I was more talking about parties, company events, hanging out at home, going to a restaurant, that sort of thing where drinking is acceptable and very rarely does anyone get wicked drunk (well, except at parties), but any drinking gets frowned upon by a certain type of person. That's the only thing I was talking about. It's pretty hard NOT to assume someone isn't "passing judgement" on the crowd's drinkers when making derogatory comments about them having one or two drinks and wondering why they're all alcoholics.

gareth - no offences taken; more a compliment actually. re the judgement thing, if I'm out and people are drinking it's their right - fuck, it certainly was mine when i was; what i don't like are people who keep asking me why I'm not drinking; a simple no thanks in reply to "Wanna beer" normally is fine; but when some bastard wants to know what kind of wuss I am cos I won't sink a schooner with him, he deserves to be told that my mum had to give me mouth to mouth, and even that didn't stop me drinking for another 4 years.

On the theme of non-drinkers harassing drinkers for their moral degeneracy...... I occasionally find that the stresses and strains of working for a top fashion retailer mean that I need a few glasses of wine to chill out of an evening. New flatmate was appalled at this, as I poured myself another glass as Corrie started he looked aghast. 'ANOTHER glass?!' I was too ashamed to have a third in front of him so in true alky style sneaked up to my room and proceeded to polish off the rest of the bottle away from his judgmental eyes.

Anyone who is sitting there at dinner counting the number of drinks you have had is sad beyond all words (unless, that is, you are actually an alcoholic, in which case...) As some who happens not to drink alcohol, I refused to be tarred by their brush

In alanon we have a saying - I quit counting bottles, i let hims sort out his own addictions .

In Middlesbrough we have a saying: "You should have punched the cheeky cunt"

I don't think I'm an alcoholic. Did anyone see the channel 4 thing Can you live without.... alcohol? a few weeks back. Flatmate was watching while I was pouring a glass of wine and he said 'I bet you couldn't live without alcohol for a week Emma', then started querying why I drink. Grrr. Leave me alone. All this is making me really fancy a drink, actually.

My dad is a drinker. Sort of a functional alcholic. Never really fucked me up . Though he did live my mum when i was 9.

Well, most of the time people who get laboured 'alcoholic' get tarred with that brush because they've been 'humorously' drunk a few times - but everyone must have done that at some point. As far as I can see, if you're not drinking constantly, and it's not spirits, you're in no way an alcoholic i.e. addicted to drink.

Bill

As long as you don't drink before noon, you're alright.

If you aren't supposed to drink before noon, why do pubs open at 11? Eh? Eh?

On the work function drinking I think people nsneakily admire me for my ability to get pissed, wander round stealing more bottles of wine and then go and be rude to the director of the college. I think they sneakily admire me, but they try to distance themselves from me when I throw full bottles of wine out of a third storey window hissin "S'alright, they're full, they won't break."

Emma. You are an alcoholic.

Good god, this raises more discussion and hackles than any other subject on this board except maybe smoking. I probably shouldn't contribute, for the same reasons that I wouldn't contribute to the smoking thread, but...

I have known people who engage in the sort of behaviour that Ally describes. That sort of thing makes me fly into a rage faster than anything, and if you accuse me of problem drinking, then I will turn into a problem drinker right down your fucking ass faster than I can swallow a double vodka with coke.

Not all non-drinkers are confrontational like that. Mark M's comment about non-coke takers made me remember an incident at a New Years party this past year. I don't like coke, I don't like it around me, but I'm not going to preach at people if they do, cause it's their choice. A friend dashed into the room with some lines to give his girlfriend- I didn't say anything, but I probably kind of looked a bit aghast. Before I could say anything, he launched into a half hour overly defensive rant about why it was perfectly OK for him to be doing coke, and it was his choice, and if I didn't like that, well, that was my problem, etc. etc. etc. and I know that one of the symptoms of coke is it makes you BLAB and BLAB and BLAB but I just thought it was curious that he launched into his defense before I'd ever actually said anything.

I wonder if we get the same way about drink.

Pete, to clarify:

Not drinking before noon = definately okay.

Drinking before noon = probably okay anyway.

Kate: Cocaine paranoia. EVERYONE I know who's high on coke has done something similar to that. It makes you extra chatty and extra paranoid, so the combo makes you think that everyone is out to get you.

The definition of alcoholism is needing to drink to function in some way. That's it. It doesn't matter if you have all your drinks at 8am or if you drink spirits every day or what. It's the idea that if you STOP drinking for XYZ amount of time, that you can't handle it. That's what addiction is, it has nothing to do with the how much or the how often, it has to do with the need. Which is why it's a bit tricky - you cant just look at someone who's doing a lot of something and then say, "Oh, you're an addict". If they drink 20 bottles of Blackhaus on one weekend then nothing for two weeks and don't feel they need it, then they're not addicted. Someone can only have a couple glasses of wine every once and a while but absolutely NEED to have it in those situations, and they are on some level addicted. It's way too tricky a situation.