would you turn a blind eye to your personal beliefs in order to earn much needed cash?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

My neighbour has a daughter ( aged 2 1/2 ) and wants her to learn to play piano. I used to teach classical piano as a sideline in my previous life ( pre - sole parenthood ). I am in desperate need of some extra cash. So far so good right?
The catch is, my neighbour wants her daughter to learn by 'The Suzuki Method ' which is an effective, but ( in my opinion ) passionless pathway to follow.
Aside from the fact that I feel the little girl is too young to start formal training, the regime of Suzuki's 7-day a week practice and rote learning just leaves me cold. I would happily spend hours exploring the joys of music with Olivia, helping her learn to play and read, but stalled big-time when I realised her parents have their minds set on Suzuki.
I have turned down the job offer and explained why, but agreed to assist if I can, although I dont know what they would want me to do.

Olivia suffers from severe asthma, her attacks are frequently life-threatening and she is rushed to hopsital via ambulance, to spend a week or in intensive care. As a consequence of her ill-health she is pretty isolated, unable to join kindy or playgroups, and our visits are restricted to those times when I am confident we aren't bringing any bugs along with us.
Her parents view the music thing as a means to an end - " A gift we can provide for her future, the ability to play an instrument "
To me, she would gain greater benefit from the chance to express herself and get creative, within the boundaries ( confines ) of her household.

Am I being really illogical and thick to knock back this cash job when I Really Need the Money?
What would you do?

― donna (donna), Sunday, 13 February 2005 07:30 (twenty-one years ago)

what Im really wanting is for everyone to say " No Donna, stick to your guns and stay poor but noble, tis the right thing "
Then I will feel better about the whole poverty deal.

Anyone?

― donna (donna), Sunday, 13 February 2005 08:11 (twenty-one years ago)

donna
i think spending time with the child is better then bitching about methods, though i have turned down money to help kids with reading b/c the parents wanted to push fonix and fonix are evil...so i dont know ?

― anthony, Sunday, 13 February 2005 08:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Is there no way around it? I mean, teaching her passion. Maybe in a roundabout way? Also, now she's deprived of social interaction and music. If you teach her the (wrong) method, it's better than *nothing*. No? That said, if you strongly believe it's the wrong method, don't do it. I don't know the drawbacks - the only things I have heard about it were good things - so I can't advise you all that well. Sorry. :-)

― stevie nixed (stevie nixed), Sunday, 13 February 2005 08:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I gather, though, that teaching the child in the method proposed would not be better than nothing, and might, in Donna's view, be not the best thing for the child.

― Fish fingers all in a line (kenan), Sunday, 13 February 2005 08:55 (twenty-one years ago)

We will still visit just as often, maybe we can play around with the piano then, as a 'hey lets play the piano and have some fun' kind of deal.
She is a neat little girl, her and my son have become great friends ( he isn't much older than her ). Im thinking aloud now.
Might just try that and surely her mum wont object, after all she did say I could drop by and use their piano.

― donna (donna), Sunday, 13 February 2005 08:55 (twenty-one years ago)

and yes, it worries me that Olivia might start to dislike playing piano ( or worse - dislike learning music altogether ) due to the enforced practice and strict routine. All pretty heavy stuff for someone not yet 3 years old.

― donna (donna), Sunday, 13 February 2005 09:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Hm, okay, but maybe they'll just get another teacher?

― stevie nixed (stevie nixed), Sunday, 13 February 2005 10:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Can you not teach some kind of hybrid - use the form, but expand on it yourself?

(also, isn't 2 and a half a bit too young to start learning piano anyway? Her fingers won't fit the keys)

― Markelby (Mark C), Sunday, 13 February 2005 11:00 (twenty-one years ago)

yep she is way too young.
I would only be aiming at developing good listening skills at this point, with some happy key-bashing thrown in for fun.
A hybrid form was one consideration but to gain the most from Suzuki it really is necessary to follow a straight path, which is what her parents have chosen to do.

Stuff it, Im just going to go play their piano and see if Olivia can't at least get some enjoyment inbetween the enforced bits.

― donna (donna), Sunday, 13 February 2005 11:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I grew up with the Suzuki method, starting at 3 too. The passion comes from the kid, not the method, is what I think. I have exactly that criticism of the classical world as a whole--that it doesn't foster passion. But I don't think the Suzuki method subdued my passion.

― kansas topography (kansas topography), Sunday, 13 February 2005 13:27 (twenty-one years ago)

i was a suzuki kid as well, and turned out fine.

perhaps you could teach her until she's a little older, and gradually convince the parents the value of learning to read music at an early age, like 5-8, rather than doing suzuki for 7 years and then expecting me to pick up sight-reading as a 12 year-old. that way, it wouldn't be 'oh, i hate suzuki, it's so passionless', but would be 'if we expand this a bit to read music (and thus give room for more passion and experimentation [but don't say that]), she'll have a much better foundation for moving to whichever instrument she's interested in throughout her life. learning to read music should be done early, like learning a language or reading music' and see if they buy it?

i have to say that it sounds like you being yourself while teaching suzuki-- fun and passionate-- would probably be a better experience than some dried up old school suzuki teacher, so i'd say do it.

― colette (a2lette), Sunday, 13 February 2005 13:53 (twenty-one years ago)

The Suzuki Method turned me off learning music forever, but if I wz in yr position I probably would teach it

― fcussen (Burger), Sunday, 13 February 2005 14:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Donna; if not you, who? Someone who's firmly passionately committed to Suzuki? Won't that make things worse?

― The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Sunday, 13 February 2005 14:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Worst question ever.

― C-Man (C-Man), Sunday, 13 February 2005 14:59 (twenty-one years ago)

More serious and interesting than anything you've ever posted, dude.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 February 2005 16:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Worst answer ever.

― stevie nixed (stevie nixed), Sunday, 13 February 2005 16:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Um, how do you play an instrument for 7 years without knowing how to (sight-)read music?

― Markelby (Mark C), Sunday, 13 February 2005 16:36 (twenty-one years ago)

with this girl's medical condition, is it possible for her to follow suzuki. (I don't know anything about the process besides what you've described, ie 7-day-a-week practice.)

― teeny (teeny), Sunday, 13 February 2005 17:43 (twenty-one years ago)

no sight-reading for seven years sounds insane. do you develop a good ear from it or something?

― Maria (Maria), Monday, 14 February 2005 00:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Is there any way that you can just give her the lessons, and somehow bend the truth with her parents a bit - i.e. tell them that you are following Suzuki and then bring in more bits of other methods as the child learns the piano? It sounds like this child would have more benefit from a compassionate teacher, even if the parents don't necessarily see it that way to start with.

― Kate Kept Me Alive! (kate), Monday, 14 February 2005 11:32 (twenty-one years ago)

What, briefly, is this Suziki Method?

I'm learning piano by ear at the moment, but this sounds exactly the kind of oppressive taskmastery regime that oddly turns me on.

― Huey (Huey), Monday, 14 February 2005 11:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I started playing the violin when I was five, and my teacher did some sort of half-assed version of suzuki, and it sucked, no music reading whatsoever, which meant that when I came to the stage where I started playing in small ensembles and orchestras I was completely lost and had to have my teacher translate all the sheet music to the system she'd used. Eventually I sort of learned to read music on my own, but I hated the violin so much by then that I quit. I started playing the flute instead, when I was ten or so, and learned to read music instantly, just because my flute teacher was so much better. I loved the flute and it gave me tremendous joy to play it. Sort of wish now I hadn't given up on the violin, or rather that I'd had a proper teacher... But sorry, no advise really, except try and explain to the parents, perhaps quoting some of the opinions on suzuki from this thread...

― Hanna (Hanna), Monday, 14 February 2005 13:26 (twenty-one years ago)

If you teach a method you don't endorse, you wont be doing it wholeheartedly. And this will affect the teaching. Music especially.

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 14 February 2005 13:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Do the parents really have a good idea of what the Suzuki method entails? It's one of those buzzwords that a lot of parents probably know without knowing what it is. They may just think "This will make my child a gifted pianist because it's the one with the fancy Japanese name that all those amazing Japanese musicians probably used."

Maybe you should sit them down and talk it through with them in detail. If it's still what they want, well, it's their kid, not yours. You still don't have to teach it if you really hate the method, but they may just get another Suzuki teacher anyway.

― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 14 February 2005 15:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks all for your suggestions and comments.
My neighbour has arranged for Olivia to attend piano lessons with a local Suzuki teacher. Never know, Olivia might not like it at all and simply refuse to go along with the deal.
I will continue to visit socially, play the piano and have the kids join in when we are there and just see how it all goes.

― donna (donna), Monday, 14 February 2005 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)

good luck, donna!

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 February 2005 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

mark (and kate), there's a difference between playing 'by sight' and 'by ear'. if you learn suzuki, you're playing only by ear, and can get pretty good by middle school age, at least in my experience.

however, once i was about 13, my teacher started teaching me to read music, and it was just too late, basically. i didn't enjoy it, and faked the next 5 years of marching band and orchestra while giving up piano because i found it so difficult. it's really like learning another language-- should be done as early as possible.

donna, good luck with her, hope you can influence her in some way. maybe teaching her to read music in a couple years?!

― colette (a2lette), Monday, 14 February 2005 23:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Well that's just it, Colette - why bother learning something (especially in a way that seems to soullessly beat learning into you) if you end up unable to progress beyond a certain point? How on earth is it not cripplingly negative to not be able to read music? It's not like it's that hard to learn, especially for a bright young child.

(now would be a good time to detail what the Suzuki method actually does)

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 13:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Music is like any other written or spoken language - the brain has a natural facility for picking it up at certain ages, and it will get harder to aquire it from scratch the older that you are. Although it seems sensible that playing by ear can be picked up earlier than the facility for reading develops, it seems akin to teaching a child to speak and then not bothering teaching them how to read.

― Kate Kept Me Alive! (kate), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 13:06 (twenty-one years ago)

How on earth is it not cripplingly negative to not be able to read music?

Your double negatives are baffling me! :-)

I'm the opposite of Colette - I can read music, and I'm pretty good at sight-reading, at least on the clarinet (not so good on piano, because I find it hard to sight-read two staves at once). I don't have *perfect* pitch, but I'm pretty good - again, especially when listening to a clarinet, because I know how the tone of notes varies across the instrument's range. I'm terrible, though, at just picking up a tune by ear - it takes lots of re-listening and trial-and-error playing. I wish I could just sit down at a keyboard and bash out the tune of a song I've just heard, and maybe even add a few chords. I'm just not quick enough at playing-by-ear to be able to do it, though.

― caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 13:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Mm, it's a very interesting question about learning music, but in terms of earning money -- well, I don't really *believe* in this filing system, but kind of go along with it. My *personal beliefs* are offended by my boss' rhetorical style, but that's how it goes, I'm paid to be doing this. I'd suck it up, but the debate on music learning is really interesting -- sweeping statements like Kate's really do beg questions, for example. (How much is music a 'language' like any other?)

― Henry Miller, Tuesday, 15 February 2005 13:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Written music bears the same relation to played music as written text bears to spoken language.

Sure, you can also go your entire life speaking a language and being illiterate in it. But the brain has a natural propensity towards picking up language and/or writing at certain developmental stages.

― Kate Kept Me Alive! (kate), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 13:14 (twenty-one years ago)

There's an interesting analogy, too, between "acting in a play" and "perfoming music on-stage".

― caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 13:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, it doesn't really because notes don't 'mean' anything the way words do, and the history of music notation is nothing like the history of language. Music may be 'a' language but that doesn't give it affinities with verbal language.

xpost

― Henry Miller, Tuesday, 15 February 2005 13:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd say that the brain *does* have a natural tendency to pick up certain rhythms (is 4/4 also a common time signature in non-Western traditional music?).

Equally, you can argue that harmony isn't an cultural construct - as in, "we like the concept of 'modes' and 'keys' because it's the context we've been taught in" - because modes and harmonies derive entirely from the mathematical relationships between different frequencies.

― caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.