TS: Steptoe and Son vs. Sanford and Son

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/guide/images/640/steptoeandson_1.jpg http://www.lethaldeath.com/Crimson/Images/ResidentDVDvil/Sanford%20and%20Son%20Season%204.jpg

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 14 February 2005 02:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Keep in mind that Steptoe and Son is British.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 14 February 2005 02:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I was having a hard time figuring that out from the web address, thanks.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 14 February 2005 02:09 (twenty-one years ago)

British person: I've never seen Sanford and Son, but Steptoe is great.

American person: I've never seen Stetoe and Son, but Sanford is great.

― Bumfluff, Monday, 14 February 2005 02:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Robin's Nest!

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 14 February 2005 02:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Scott you sick fuck.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 14 February 2005 02:17 (twenty-one years ago)

"If they're not going with a bird, they're having a row with a wanker"

― Homer, Monday, 14 February 2005 02:21 (twenty-one years ago)

that "Real World" font on the Sanford box just isn't working

― Aaron A., Monday, 14 February 2005 02:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Did Sanford ever get a pickled onion stuck up his arse?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 14 February 2005 02:38 (twenty-one years ago)

So, yeah, how closely did Sanford and Son follow the Steptoe format then? Son has aspirations of ascending to the middle class but is repeatedly foiled by father?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 14 February 2005 02:39 (twenty-one years ago)

is steptoe paul mccartney's grandpa?

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 14 February 2005 02:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes. Very clean man.

― Bumfluff, Monday, 14 February 2005 02:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I bet Sanford and Son's theme song kills Steptoe's theme song.

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 14 February 2005 03:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Son has aspirations of ascending to the middle class but is repeatedly foiled by father?

yup. see episode where lamont brings home his dates and tries to woo 'em by showing how sophisticated he is (e.g., fine wine and smoooooooth music). only to be charmed by redd foxx (gutbucket funky music and "bring awn tha RIIIIIIIPPLE!!!")

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 14 February 2005 03:57 (twenty-one years ago)

that said, i unfortunately don't remember THAT much about "sanford and son." i do remember thinking it was funny, and finding out later that redd foxx was REALLY a dirty old man.

another lost american sitcom in the same vein -- "chico and the man." you get to see freddy prinze, jr's dad! (who was actually FUNNY and TALENTED!! quite unlike his son!!!)

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:00 (twenty-one years ago)

i've always wanted to see an episode of that show they tried to do where it was sanford and son without sanford or son, just grady and lawanda page, i think they called it 'sanford heights' or something. and when did bet stop showing episodes of 'sanford!', the late (last?) version of the show where it's just redd and some big white dude in overalls.

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Richard Pryor did some writing on Sanford & Son.

― earlnash, Monday, 14 February 2005 04:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Keep in mind that Steptoe and Son is British.

More importantly, keep in mind Steptoe and Son is the original.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:09 (twenty-one years ago)

haha how's that important???

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Um, that it came up with the concept?

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:11 (twenty-one years ago)

and????

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:13 (twenty-one years ago)

And, Sanford & Son recycled the concept. It's not rocket science.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:14 (twenty-one years ago)

so 'steptoe' = gloria, 'sanford' = soft cell

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:15 (twenty-one years ago)

yep

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:16 (twenty-one years ago)

what is this more important than? how does which came first matter?

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:16 (twenty-one years ago)

BECAUSE THE BRITISH ONE CAME UP WITH THE CONCEPT. God.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:16 (twenty-one years ago)

If you're being disingenuous to make a point can you make the point please now?

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:17 (twenty-one years ago)

what exactly is so original about steptoe's "concept" that it's nailing it - finally a tv show does this! - is a factor in it's favor?

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:18 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm sincerely waiting for you to tell me why 'x was first' = 'x was better'!

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:19 (twenty-one years ago)

and "sanford and son" are BLACK ... did they even ALLOW black britons on the BBC back in the late 60s/early 70s?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, Samuel Beckett came up with the concept.

And he copied it from Laurel and Hardy.

Sancho Panza, Don Quixote.....

― Bumfluff, Monday, 14 February 2005 04:20 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm sincerely waiting for you to tell me why 'x was first' = 'x was better'!

In that case, I'm sincerely waiting for you to tell me where I said 'x was first' = 'x was better'

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:20 (twenty-one years ago)

(sorry to get all sub-trifean there for a moment -- but my point here is, even if the british version was "the first" or "the original" [like blount, i wonder aloud "why is that SO important anyway?"], the fact that "sanford and son" was a sitcom with african-american main characters puts a bit of a spin on the original formula i think!)

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:22 (twenty-one years ago)

well on a thread devoted to weighing which is better you did say it was important to note that steptoe was first - i'm asking you why that matters? and if it doesn't then why is it important to note it? if we were arguing which came first it might be important to note that steptoe came first but if we're discussing the relative quality of the shows and precedence isn't a factor in quality than why make note of it?

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:26 (twenty-one years ago)

well on a thread devoted to weighing which is better you did say it was important to note that steptoe was first - i'm asking you why that matters?

It matters because it was first, that's why it matters. In the same way New Order's Blue Monday matters more than the Orgy version.

if we were arguing which came first it might be important to note that steptoe came first but if we're discussing the relative quality of the shows and precedence isn't a factor in quality than why make note of it?

Same reason Curtis made a note of Steptoe being British. But you didn't harass him about that.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Do you think this is not concerning you just a little bit too much?

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:29 (twenty-one years ago)

and "sanford and son" are BLACK ... did they even ALLOW black britons on the BBC back in the late 60s/early 70s?

Of course they did! They were called 'nig-nogs'.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:32 (twenty-one years ago)

look there's no need to cry about this, i'm just asking you for some clarification. if steptoe represents a british approach to tv comedy and sanford represents an american approach to tv comedy i can see how yeah, that might be a factor in weighing the two. i'm still not clear on how which came first matters though - was steptoe and son considered wildly original in the uk? sanford wasn't particularly so in the us, we'd already had the honeymooners.

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:33 (twenty-one years ago)

look there's no need to cry about this

Um I beg your pardon? Want to look at yourself??

God.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:35 (twenty-one years ago)

haha wait so are you saying that the reason new order's blue monday is better than orgy's is merely cuz it came first? are you being disingenuous to make a point?

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:35 (twenty-one years ago)

haha yes i'm clearly the flustered one! warning to ilx: if you ask autumn almanac 'come again?' he will have a nervous breakdown.

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:36 (twenty-one years ago)

aa is there something about the relationship between yourself and steptoe and son you're not telling us? i'm really mystified to how someone could get in such a tizzy over this - you're not related to paul mccartney by chance are you?

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:38 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm still not clear on how which came first matters though

Originality. That's all. Doesn't necessarily make it any better.

was steptoe and son considered wildly original in the uk?

Don't think so. Only in as much as it was set in a jumble shop and there were no women as principal characters.

(xpost) Can you please stop doing that?

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:38 (twenty-one years ago)

INTERNET MENTALISM

― AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, Monday, 14 February 2005 04:40 (twenty-one years ago)

i was thinking last night about how for a period in the seventies norman lear was probably considered a 'genius' and wondering 'why?'; he basically took hit brit shows and recast the leads very well (OR just spunoff from them and cast the leads very well) - what's great about all in the family, sanford and son, maud, good times, the jeffersons can be chalked up to carol o'conner, redd foxx, bea arthur, jimmy walker, and sherman helmsley a helluva lot more than to norman lear, whereas what's creaky about those shows - the occasional overwrought 'american drama' arthur miller/raisin in the sun moments probably can be laid pretty definitely at lear's feet. what maybe 'matters' or is 'original' about them - the racial dynamic - probably can be attributed to lear's liberalism and credit due to him for that, 'sanford' the first chitlin circuit to sitcom i can think of but god knows not the last.

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:47 (twenty-one years ago)

does steptoe and son or whichever britshow all and the family came from (i forget) have those creaky 'serious' moments too? later all and the family's are riddled with them

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Serious moments? Nah, it's comedy all the way. There's a liberal amount of pathos littered through it, but no sappy moralising.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, All in the Family was Till Death Us Do Part in the UK, and that had no serious moments that I can remember.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 14 February 2005 04:55 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah the us lear versions tend to have them a bit, the good times 'damn! damn! damn!' scene when john amos dies is probably the most famous/mocked which is a shame cuz it's one of the very very very few that has any emotional impact. i swear to god that puncture archie's steely exterior to reveal the wounded little boy inside or some shit like every other episode towards the end of all in the family.

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 14 February 2005 05:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Till Death was controversial because it was so full-on. No soppy moments to cushion the blow [I could be slightly off the mark here]. Soppy moments was a very US thing, generally.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 14 February 2005 05:04 (twenty-one years ago)

You might remember me from such TV show spinoffs like Sanford & Son, and Son

― Sasha (sgh), Monday, 14 February 2005 05:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I really, truly love the first 4 seasons of Sanford And Son.

― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Monday, 14 February 2005 05:56 (twenty-one years ago)

NOTHING was more fun as a kid than trying to imitate Redd Foxx's "this is the big one!" God, so so classic.

And yeah, the theme alone could win this one. That opening montage with the Fred and Lamont in that big old red truck they had. I think that's what made me fall in love with trucks. BTW, you know that composition isn't actually called "Sanford and Son theme"? It has a real name and there's a full length (3 minutes or so) version of it somewhere on some Quincy Jones album...

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Monday, 14 February 2005 06:36 (twenty-one years ago)

My band recorded it a long time ago as "Father & Lamont".

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 14 February 2005 13:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Fred to Aunt Esther: "Your face is so ugly you could stick it in dough and make gorilla cookies."

― lovebug starski (lovebug starski), Monday, 14 February 2005 14:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Rollo was totally pimped out. Did Steptoe and Son have such a pimped out character?

― earlnash, Monday, 14 February 2005 14:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I watched (Ie fell asleep wathing) Steptoe & Son when I was in London - the BBC announcer introduced the show with, "And now, time for an all-time low in British television".

― dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 14 February 2005 14:32 (twenty-one years ago)

BTW, you know that composition isn't actually called "Sanford and Son theme"? It has a real name and there's a full length (3 minutes or so) version of it somewhere on some Quincy Jones album...

It's called The Streetbeater Theme. I had that record in college - best $1 I ever spent.

― dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 14 February 2005 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)

And now, time for an all-time low in British television

must've been ironic - steptoe and son are generally considered an all time classic. very british though, it's not the sort of thing you'd really expect americans to get enthusiastic about. the whole thing is based in a society whose values have not yet begun to recognisably mirror those of the US. a fairly bleak picture of a fairly bleak time.

although it is actually funnier than you'd think, i was watching an episode the other day and crying with laughter.

i've never seen sanford and son.

― debden, Monday, 14 February 2005 15:40 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.ginza.se/Archive/Images/item_img/3603.jpg

Albert & Herbert

― John Cocktolstoy, Tuesday, 15 February 2005 06:22 (twenty-one years ago)

is there any way for an american to see this show? (steptoe, not sanford)

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 10:15 (twenty-one years ago)

seventeen years pass...

I bet Sanford and Son's theme song kills Steptoe's theme song.

Only one of them inspired Syd Barrett to write "Interstellar Overdrive" (it didn't really but it may as well have).

― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Friday, 10 February 2023 23:21 (three years ago)

From the overwhelmingly brilliant podcast A History Of Rock Music In 500 Songs:

https://500songs.com/podcast/episode-157-see-emily-play-by-the-pink-floyd/

There are conflicting stories about the inspiration for the main riff for “Interstellar Overdrive”. One apparent source is the riff from Love’s version of the Bacharach and David song “My Little Red Book”. Depending on who you ask, either Barrett was obsessed with Love’s first album and copied the riff, or Peter Jenner tried to hum him the riff and Barrett copied what Jenner was humming:
[Excerpt: Love, “My Little Red Book”]
More prosaically, Roger Waters has always claimed that the main inspiration was from “Old Ned”, Ron Grainer’s theme tune for the sitcom Steptoe and Son (which for American listeners was remade over there as Sanford and Son):
[Excerpt: Ron Grainer, “Old Ned”]
Of course it’s entirely possible, and even likely, that Barrett was inspired by both, and if so that would neatly sum up the whole range of Pink Floyd’s influences at this point.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Saturday, 11 February 2023 00:01 (three years ago)

i started Sanford late last year for the first time & find it legitimately great

cannot & will not ever revisit Steptoe since childhood because Wilfrid Brambell creeped me the fuck out (love him in other things though)

― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 11 February 2023 00:48 (three years ago)

“Old Ned”, Ron Grainer’s theme tune

Oh I am, am I?

― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 11 February 2023 01:07 (three years ago)

That was just Ricardo trolling you.

― The Windows of the URL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 11 February 2023 01:10 (three years ago)

I haven't seen the Sanford version. I'm finding it hard to see how Redd Foxx who seemed quite good looking from what I've seen of him maps onto the character originated by Wilfred Bramlett. Does it just focus on the crustiness.

― Stevolende, Saturday, 11 February 2023 10:37 (three years ago)

Had me wondering how much rewriting was done in transatlantic resetting. Culture context transformation presumably meant scripts couldn't be lifted straight with placenames changed.

― Stevolende, Saturday, 11 February 2023 10:40 (three years ago)

The odd thing about Redd Foxx as Sanford is that he wasn't yet 50 years old when the show started yet appeared to be a good 75. Castmate Whitman Mayo who played Grady was in his early 40s yet appeared to be at least 70. It's one of those cases that gets used as evidence for the idea that people from the old days aged faster, but it's actually kind of unusual in and of itself.

― Josefa, Saturday, 11 February 2023 16:02 (three years ago)

Wilfrid Brambell was 49 when Steptoe & Son started - and 52 when he played Paul's grandad in A Hard Day's Night!

https://www.themoviescene.co.uk/reviews/_img/5644-2.jpg

― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Saturday, 11 February 2023 16:17 (three years ago)

dont do this!

― mark s, Saturday, 11 February 2023 16:22 (three years ago)

one year passes...

I've always thought it but it's so obvious when you watch it, Harold Steptoe is Tony Hancock.

― Defund Phil Collins (Tom D.), Saturday, 24 August 2024 11:53 (one year ago)

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