All in the Family: C/D?

...

So anyway.

there's also this VERY 1970s sociology-professor/limousine liberal vibe about the show that also might go down hard (even among today's liberals). i mean, there certainly WERE -- and ARE -- working-stiff bigots like archie, and folks like that (and their attitudes) are definitely NOT admirable. but it's also TOO easy for some to point their fingers at the likes of archie bunker and smugly say "see THAT is a bigot ... not us!" while letting upper-class bigotry off the hook. i mean -- meanwhile in manhattan, and roughly contemporaneously w/ all in the family, folks like mario cuomo and alan dershowitz were getting REJECTED from BigLaw firms in manhattan for not being WASPs (and forget it if you were black or female).

that said, the show still had some great moments.

By the way, Maude = possibly more classic than All in the Family even.

of all the Lear stuff, I barely remember ANYTHING about Maude. I honestly don't think I ever watched it, for whatever reason.

i don't remember if this episode was before or after maude showed up, but there was one episode (one of the best ones for the series ever) that played EXACTLY that angle. archie, edith, meathead, and gloria were eating out at a restaurant b/c the electricity in the house had been shorted out and archie, meathead, and edith all got to tell THEIR take on how it happened. their refrigerator was broken, and they called an electrician and his black apprentice (played by that guy from barney miller) to fix it. the way that archie was describing it, the black apprentice was portrayed as a daishiki-clad, afro-headed black power militant who practically pulled out a switchblade on archie (to peel an apple!) meathead, of course, took the opposite tack -- that the black apprentice was a stepin fetchit-type ultra-subservient type. in edith's rendition (as usual, the most sensible of them), the black apprentice was neither a militant nor a shuck-and-jiver but just a dude w/ quiet dignity (e.g., archie made a racially questionable remark [quel surprise] about him being a "boy," the apprentice took exception to it and pointed out that he was a man, archie wonders aloud why he's making a big point about it and that he certainly doesn't, the apprentice quietly responding "you never had to.")

Red?

Did other countries also have there own loveable bigot shows in the early 70s? Was there a French or a Finnish Archie?

"Ein Herz Und Eine Seele" is ten times more dark and chaotic than "All In The Family", btw - Archie blows raspberries, Alfred basically spends the entire show cursing loudly at his wife. Can't remember any of the sappyness finding its way in, either.

In the first couple seasons, Mike's politics were presented uncritically, but it was inevitable that as the writers mined new areas, they'd start goring the lefty ox a bit too. They even once had Gloria say "Daddy's right, you're just a mealymouthed liberal" to audience applause! Eisbar OTM with that Rashomon episode.

The 'preachiness' was a byproduct of attempting material that had NEVER been attempted on American TV. While the makers of "Patton" seemed very savvy about its playing to both crowds, the preachy dialogue made it clear that Archie was a fool. (Norman Lear said he based the character primarily on his intolerant [Jewish] father.)

Purely from a comedic angle, the best AITF shows were brilliantly structured. The head writer/story editor for much of its prime was a veteran of the great Jack Benny radio series of the '40s and '50s. There's a finale to the episode where Archie is locked, drunk, in the cellar, and mistakes the gas-meter reader (who's black) for God; the last six laughs get bigger and bigger, almost geometrically. Beautifully crafted.

"Ein echter Wiener" is also far more involved in local specifics than AITF ever was, and AITF was never really about Queens or New York and gradually became less so as the series dragged on.

Matt Z Seitz with a 40th anniversary piece:

http://www.salon.com/entertainment/tv/feature/2011/01/12/all_in_the_family

I've been told to watch the episode with Ron Glass.

Had forgotten that Max Gail was on that 'Rashomon' episode? Which Barney Miller cast member didn't appear on this show?

Also trying to remember a bittersweet episode in which the Crackerjack guy Jack Gilford invented some kind of remote control door bell ringer and then passed away before he could reap the rewards.

Jack Gilford was a prince of comedy. One of his '80s gigs was in a sitcom about an animation studio called "The Duck Factory" that starred young Jim carrey.

That Salon piece is good, thx Morbs.

I remember the Jack Gilford episode well--between that and Save the Tiger, he's someone I remember nostalgically.

When it was good, one of the greatest sitcoms ever. Towards the end, when they tried to soften Archie, it was terrible. Candidate for favourite line ever, from the episode where Edith and Archie celebrate their 50th (from memory):

Edith -- "Am I 'something,' Archie?"
Archie -- "You, Edith, are something else."

well, I think it woulda been their 25th or 30th?

also, thast Nixon tape where Dick and cronies are discussing the AITF episode about Archie's butch gay pal is an amazing listen.

Modern network sitcoms are mostly about dating, parenthood and office politics; they deal with hot-button issues in a glancing, glib way if they address them at all. Some are lame. Some are amusing. A few are brilliant. None is the equal of "All in the Family." Those were the days.

otmfm

xpost - I remember Jack Gilford playing an old extraterrestrial (or something) on Soap!

I loved the formulaic nature of AITF, the way each episode had the exact same structure, practically. Even the way the characters wore the exact same clothes everyday seemed important.

They did get away with not leaving the house rather often.

also, thast Nixon tape where Dick and cronies are discussing the AITF episode about Archie's butch gay pal is an amazing listen.

^^^so awesome

Did Norman Lear make the Enemies List?

They played the ep where Archie cheats on Edith at the gym and I was almost bawling.

I can't believe people think the glossy, 900-character Mad Men is an amazing show when TV used to plumb this kind of emotional depth.

needed more suits n' cocktails

shows aren't even remotely comparable...?

exactly

blue-collar bigot vs white-collar bigots!

my point is the shows operate completely differently, and there's no need to be mutually exclusive in praise.

also lol @ "900 characters" um yeah right

stifle!

Man I can't believe crap like Two and Half Men gets praised by anyone ever when films like Citizen Kane exist!

First aired 40 years ago last night; damn I am old

http://www.aoltv.com/2011/01/12/all-in-the-family-memorable-moments/

hah, it's 2012, so that would be 41 years. Keep moving along...

a friend of mine recently stated that he thinks that all in the family might be more controversial now than it was when it was actually running on network TV

Not to be simplistic, but ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3EXKWPn6aY

Also, I almost bumped the MTM thread to posit that, just like there are Elvis/Beatles people and Betty/Veronica people, there are either All in the Family people or Mary Tyler Moore people.

I vote all of the above, Eric.

rather simplistic post up there

(also, underrating mortal sins)

Sally Struthers arrested for DUI.

Just curious: did Sammy Davis Jr kiss Archie before or after he hugged Nixon?

RIP Jean Stapleton

Bummer. RIP, Jean.

“The benign, compassionate presence she developed made my egregious churl bearable,” O'Connor wrote of Stapleton in his 1998 autobiography.

its sad, she was a dingbat

Outside of Mary Richards, I probably have more nostalgia and more protective feelings about Edith than any sitcom character ever. As good as it gets starting at 5:30:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSiU8mhq-js

I never really watched it before but this show is amazing! Even aside from politics, it's hilarious. I just saw s1e5 ("Judging Books by Covers") last night, which seemed genuinely challenging for a network sitcom today, let alone in 1970. I can't think of a contemporary sitcom that would make the skinny scarf-wearing flower-loving guy straight and the beer-drinking linebacker gay.

The contemporary US right actually seems more conservative than Archie Bunker sometimes. His views on gun control in "Archie and the Editorial" in s3, which were played for laughs, almost seem more moderate than the present-day NRA's positions.

I just saw s1e5 ("Judging Books by Covers") last night, which seemed genuinely challenging for a network sitcom today, let alone in 1970. I can't think of a contemporary sitcom that would make the skinny scarf-wearing flower-loving guy straight and the beer-drinking linebacker gay.

in one of the nixon tapes, he describes the plot of this episode at length and in absolute detail -- as an example of the liberal media propagandizing for homosexuals, but it's also clear it got to him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TivVcfSBVSM

"i was trying to tune into the damn baseball game."

The point is, I do not mind the homosexuality. I understand it. I -- [14-second beep]

(names, maybe.)

ehrlichman: hot pants
nixon: jesus christ
haldeman: i agree...
[ehrlichman laughs]

Some of my best co-conspirators are faggys.

ehrlichman: hot pants
nixon: jesus christ
haldeman: i agree...
[ehrlichman laughs]

― balls, Sunday, July 14, 2013 12:25 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark

By the way, Maude = possibly more classic than All in the Family even.

btw, no, I could barely ever get through one episode.

The comment was 8 years old now but I'm intrigued as to why why someone would think that Mike treats Gloria worse than Archie treats Edith. Because he sponges off her parents while constantly fighting with her Dad at the same time that she goes out to work? Maybe I could see a case there. Maybe. I've only watched the first two DVDs of s1 and one of s3 but Archie seems genuinely verbally and emotionally abusive while Mike seems like a garden-variety dumb 20something dude who usually recognizes his mistakes and vestigial chauvinism when they are pointed out to them.

"Success Story" kind of destroyed me. And then "The First and Last Supper" was pretty amazing and hilarious right after.

It's weird to read episode titles for AITF, cuz they never appeared onscreen and I've never had the DVDs.

The swastika episode is intense.

oh, I remember that, and the guy from the JDL comes to protect them...

Most sobering sitcom ep ending ever?

only competition i can think of is McLean Stevenson's MASH swan song.

man i think i've been underrating all in the family for awhile. i always gave it its due for 'historical importance' or whatever and recognized stapleton and o'connor's greatness but in terms of where i actually rated it or whatever it was probably closer to maude or even the jeffersons, below mash and way below mary tyler moore or bob newhart or even the odd couple. having seen several recently courtesy or me-tv or whatever i can say it really is much funnier and smarter than i remembered and not nearly as sentimental or preachy or 'but seriously folx'. also stapleton and o'connor even better than i remembered, o'connor esp, maybe the best lead acting i can think of in a sitcom (ted danson's the reason i'm saying maybe there though i'm sure there are other contenders).

(ted danson's the reason i'm saying maybe there though i'm sure there are other contenders)

C'mon balls! Becker wasn't that great.

was becket the biggest hit of that 'this guy's definitely not politically correct, he tells it like he sees it, he's abrasive, he smokes cigarettes man' sitcom trend, i remember fonzie had some fake rush limbaugh sitcom and i think there were several others in that vein (i think george carlin's awful sitcom was one of these iirc), like a bunch of network suits saw denis leary's spots for mtv and thought 'yeah, archie bunker but younger and Xtreme - GOLD'. oddly neither of leary's shows (the pretty great the job and the really inconsistent rescue me) fit this mold, maybe by the time leary was forced back to television the trend had died out (though i'm not sure the trend ever really did die, there's that tim allen show)(and arguably home improvement was trying to tap into this also though it was so anodyne in comparison to becker nevermind all in the family i don't really think it qualifies).

I had no recollection of this show even existing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_%28TV_series%29

Directed by Robby Benson

Also, while on Wikipedia, I found out that Terry Farrell who played Reggie on Becker, basically retired when she left the show and hasn't done a thing since except live in rural Pennsylvania.

Was Carlin really a super crabby guy in his show? I remember him being a cab driver with "observations," but I don't remember him being so bitter that the whole world was his enemy like Ted Danson on Becker.

(and, I actually was kidding when I said Becker up there. I had assumed you really meant Cheers.)

FTR: I DID REALLY MEAN CHEERS

haha

was just watching this episode out of curiosity to see if the show held up and i found myself openly weeping at some of jean stapleton's acting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSFyHNgjpp8
goddamn this holds up; it's a shame it isn't streaming somewhere.

Haven't opened up the clip, but if it's the episode I'm thinking of--"You, Edith, are something else"--yes, brilliant.

started taping this, local station is playing two episodes a night in order but I'm catching it in the middle of season 4. great stuff, consistently.

Debuted 46 years ago (1/12/71)

http://i64.tinypic.com/rc7csw.jpg

think my parents let me start watching it by March

Regardless of the nature of the show itself, how strange must it have seemed to 1971 viewers to see a sitcom shot on videotape rather than film?

Was it the first? i wasn't aware of that, but i can't think of earlier ones. Variety shows (plentiful at the time) were, of course. Jackie Gleason wrapped the infamous '60s Honeymooners sketches inside his.

a little bit of americana in canada

http://i.imgur.com/QjHKKvw.png

If you have time today, watch this Christmas episode of ALL IN THE FAMILY. It deals with Vietnam and draft resistance in a holiday context (the style reminiscent of live TV dramas of the '50s). Of its time, but also our time. https://t.co/IqQToINuRo

— Dennis Perrin (@DennisThePerrin) December 25, 2017

KKK dude: Do you believe in white supremacy?
Archie Bunker: I certainly do, except in boxing, baseball, and basketball.

All in the Family hasn't aged a day.

— Matt Prigge (@mattprigge) June 12, 2019

i was worried this was going to series for a second

There are certain films and shows that do not need rebooting, and ALL IN THE FAMILY is one. Carroll O'Connor and Jean Stapleton are iconic, and trying to replace them with Woody Harrelson and Marisa Tomei looks foolish (Harrelson's attempt at a Queens accent even more so). pic.twitter.com/rQpuC1BhTP

— Dennis Perrin (@DennisThePerrin) December 19, 2019

new one is this week, right?

featuring oscar winning actress viola davis as esther rolle

btw if you want a sense of how quick culture shock kicks in, try the blackface episode of this sometime; it's horrible!

what, of AITF? I do vaguely recall it.

I grew up seeing periodic blackface on '70s/80s TV. As a(n attempted) satirical device, it was not ultra-rare. Also, I remember Ch 5 running A Day at the Races with a warning of the Marx Bros donning it for a minute.

never heard of this Kimmel shtick, sounds bad

Barry Blitt, who did the great Barack/Michelle cover for the New Yorker in 2008.

https://i.postimg.cc/wxthTyFm/blitt.jpg