TS: Doonesbury vs Calvin & Hobbes

That the characters veer between trope and individuals is part of their strength, I think -- also, invoking Peanuts and C&H a bit, Duke is such a brilliant fantasy character that even with the aspects of surrealism kicking around he goes beyond them. I think my fave Doonesbury book is Action Figure! for that reason.

Also, not that C&H didn't have this, but I appreciate the self-conciousness in Doonesbury -- does anyone remember how Mike essentially wished himself out of his NYC/fraught marriage with Joanie situation to end up in Seattle two or three frames later? No justification provided outside of 'it's the comics, man.'

And of course he's got a great way when it comes to representing politicians.

None of which should be seen as a slam on C&H! Apples and oranges is a true comparison here.

One connection/moment I love about Doonesbury - the last strip (or close) on Vietnam is the arrival of a Vietnamese orphan to live with an American family. 25 years later the orphan turns up as Mike's new girlfriend.

(That said personally I always thought the whole Lisa/Mike thing was a *LITTLE* creepy anyway -- also, worst character ever was nephew Sal, Trudeau's guess at what hip teenagers were like in the late eighties/early nineties. Mind you, that was also the basis of some brilliant strips on music that actually took care of the whole rockism/anti-rockism thing years in advance! Sal was a hip-hop/r'n'b fiend.)

It's like Beatles vs Stones. Sure the one that only lasted eight years was much better, but the one that's still trucking is the very personification of rock and roll. How could you pick one over the other?

worst character ever was nephew Sal

I don't like any of the "baby" characters that much. Baby Mike, Baby Zonker, Baby Duke (Joanie's son or Duke's son, take your pick.)

My favourite moment was the last panel of Andy's dying days (he had AIDS). Joanie just got him "Pet Sounds" on CD and he's ecstatic to have lived long enough to hear it remastered. I think Joanie was out of the room talking to him and at one point, he's not answering anymore. That last panel just shows him peacefully in bed with "Wouldn't It Be Nice" playing.

he's barely his character, at root

Hunter S. Thompson clearly is his own cartoonlike figure, I'll grant, but last I checked HST didn't parachute into Iran on a mission after the 1979 revolution, inspire the hostage seizing, run a diploma mill medical college, lead a tour group to the Falklands War, get turned into a zombie by Baby Doc Duvalier and open up a club in Kuwait after Desert Storm. For starters. ;-)

As for characters from reality that became brilliant cartoon figures in another context, Simple J. Malarkey from Pogo to thread!

Doonesbury is the best comic strip that moves, that tries things, that acts as a record of the times. Its longevity and the aging of the charactes means that it simply has access to resources that other strips don't: the week where Joanie met herself from 25 years past is completely unique. It's also very good at being a comic strip. I think the vast majority of it's 10,000 punchlines have been pretty -to-really funny. And it enjoys playing with the medium.

On the other hand, mutant snowmen.

And yeah, it lost steam here and there, sometimes just to a slump and sometimes something more permanent, but its strengths keep recurring -- Kim's return to the strip is a good example, and Nicole's was another (albeit less strip-changingly), and Duke has proven to be one of those characters about whom there's always something timely to write about.

-- The Ghost of Dan Perry (djperr...), February 16th, 2005 5:07 PM. (Dan Perry)

I'm sorry, Dan, but were you speaking in a foreign language there?

on the other hand, i don't really find myself going back to them very often. the last five years or so of C&H were a total letdown for me - it was still funnier and better-drawn than almost any other comic, but it really felt like watterson had run out of ideas. he'd gotten bored with the strip, and it showed. HOW many strips were there with calvin going down the hill in his sled, talking about how real life should be more like television? and this wasn't even a running gag, it was just the SAME gag over and over again. that said, the first five years of C&H are still wonderful and classic (even if charles schulz did it all first, and better).

i have a couple of doonesbury books from the '70s and i like them. i appreciate the dryness of the humor a lot more now than i did when i was a kid. and yes, the uncle duke stuff is far and away the funniest material trudeau's ever done.

Well, I'll admit that C&H has "better" art, and could do more things, but there are few comics styles more appealing to me than classic "same drawing with slight background variations" 70s-style Doonesbury. That was a simple but powerful style. Although he probably had milked it about as much as he could when he changed to the current style in the mid-80s.

(Things that are slightly more appealing: Peanuts; Chris Ware.)