school me in love craft oh mitey ilXoR!!

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ok yes i mean lovecraft

i want to know:
i. which the best stories are (as he wrote v.many)?
ii. does anyone know is it worth gettin "H. P. Lovecraft: Tales", ed.Peter Straub, pub.The Library of America?

points to consider:
a. i love "the shunned house" but think "at the mountains of madness" is too long and not all that
b. i haf nevah read a cthulhu mythos story
c. my favourite horror writer = m.r.james by a LONG WAY
d. i am english and prefer meiosis to hyperbole (see e)
e. in the advert i saw this mornin harlan ellison is quoted as sayin "If there is a more obstinately terrifying story in the genre than his 'The Rats in the Walls', even the bravest soul should be too terrified to read it."
f. the penultimate line of the ad (ie in the teenyweeny print bit) is "In bookstores everywhere. Be afraid. Distributed by Penguin Group (USA) Inc. Be very afraid."

on one hand i like the playfulness of (f). on the other, as regards thinkin up yr own jokes: Be Fuck Off. Be Very Fuck Off.

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 24 February 2005 12:33 (twenty years ago)

harlan this mornin: "If there is a more obstinately delicious egg-w.-soldiers in breakfast history, even the greediest soul should be too thrilled to eat it."
mrs e: "shut up exaggeratin harlan or i shall pound yr face with the force of a trillion explodiing galaxies"

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 24 February 2005 12:36 (twenty years ago)

(What has happened to your "g"s, mark s? I now read all your posts in the voice of Kendra tVS)

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 24 February 2005 12:38 (twenty years ago)

The best stories are the ones by Clark Ashton Smith, I think. I liked micha*l m**rc*ck description of lovecraft's writing skills - roughly that he was effective at writing books abt the indescribable b/c he was such a terrible writer that he coulnd actually describe the indescribable (or something like that). Yes, I know...

I can't ever get past his clunky prose, I'm afraid.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 24 February 2005 12:38 (twenty years ago)

too much recent reading abt lord cardigang i fear mr nipper

(also txting)

(on a mass observation note: no one IRL says them any more)

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 24 February 2005 12:43 (twenty years ago)

mon

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 24 February 2005 12:44 (twenty years ago)

> a. i love "the shunned house" but think "at the mountains of madness" is too long and not all that
> b. i haf nevah read a cthulhu mythos story

isn't MoM considered a cthulu mythos story? it certain talks about the old ones and tentacles and mentions the Cth word:

http://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/mountainsofmaddness.htm

""Objects are eight feet long all over. Six-foot, five-ridged barrel torso three and five-tenths feet central diameter, one foot end diameters. Dark gray, flexible, and infinitely tough. Seven-foot membranous wings of same color, found folded, spread out of furrows between ridges. Wing framework tubular or glandular, of lighter gray, with orifices at wing tips. Spread wings have serrated edge. Around equator, one at central apex of each of the five vertical, stave-like ridges are five systems of light gray flexible arms or tentacles found tightly folded to torso but expansible to maximum length of over three feet. Like arms of primitive crinoid. Single stalks three inches diameter branch after six inches into five substalks, each of which branches after eight inches into small, tapering tentacles or tendrils, giving each stalk a total of twenty-five tentacles."

i am currently in my second decade of trying to finish Dagon and Other Tales so... 8)

koogs (koogs), Thursday, 24 February 2005 12:46 (twenty years ago)

ok i have never not brazenly skimmed a chtulhu mythos story, apparently

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 24 February 2005 12:48 (twenty years ago)

i drew a picture of CTHULU today in english class

latebloomer: The Heavy Metal Velveeta Faction (latebloomer), Thursday, 24 February 2005 12:49 (twenty years ago)

Not read any of the longer stuff but then I think his style is best handled in small doses. Agree about the clunkiness but he did intrduce me to the word 'squamous'.

Regarding b. get one Call of Cthulhu and Dagon

also
http://www.toyvault.com/cthulhu/images/cthulhusmall.jpg

lock robster (robster), Thursday, 24 February 2005 12:50 (twenty years ago)

five-tenths feet

!

RickyT (RickyT), Thursday, 24 February 2005 12:51 (twenty years ago)

Whenever I see a pub called "The George and Dragon" I'm always tempted to remove the "r" from "dragon"

Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 24 February 2005 12:51 (twenty years ago)

have you "introduced" a word if no one else uses it EVER!!?

at least "noisesome" gets some play in tolkien

and plus (andrew) "eldritch"

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 24 February 2005 12:52 (twenty years ago)

call of cthulu = essential!

latebloomer: The Heavy Metal Velveeta Faction (latebloomer), Thursday, 24 February 2005 12:53 (twenty years ago)

:( i wonder if i am suited to him at all: i skipped straight past that "five-tenths feet", which is heroically dotty

the review btw is quite large and pleading, in the most recent new york review of books, and also includes this grebt non-sequitamous puff line: "Sure to help reinforce Lovecraft's place in the American literary canon. Every fan will want to own this landmark volume."

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 24 February 2005 12:56 (twenty years ago)

(review = advert)

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 24 February 2005 12:58 (twenty years ago)

Haha, the book probably will "reinforce lovecraf's place in the American lit. canon" IE "That weirdo", "Who?"

Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 24 February 2005 13:01 (twenty years ago)

have you "introduced" a word if no one else uses it EVER!!?

Yes, if you use it all the time.

(bollocks I've forgotten the word for "very very big" that he uses continuously, particularly for doorways)

The problem with them these days is that they are shaggy dog stories where everyone these days is very familiar with the dog, and its pedigree (and has been bitten by its pups (sorry)). Reading a lot of the stories I was always going "Yes, it's going to be a chthuloid horror, get on with it".

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 24 February 2005 13:10 (twenty years ago)

i think hpl has his fans w/i high-cult towers (like tolk in fact), but the lovecraftians are all so ludicrously and fannishly harlanoid abt him it does him more harm than good

(but i have hardly read enough to judge: "the shunned house" is pretty much flawless)

(there's actually a pretty interesting piece - real actual review-essay i mean - on conan doyle as literary innovator in ref.sherlock holmes) (which mentions xena and buffy!)

(part one is on-line but part two - which is better - is not)

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 24 February 2005 13:10 (twenty years ago)

here's part one of the sherlock piece

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 24 February 2005 13:12 (twenty years ago)

S: Horror at Innsmouth (I think? the one with the great twist ending), The Case Of Charles Dexter Ward, the completely abstract Kadath stuff.

D: Dreams In The Witch House.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 24 February 2005 13:42 (twenty years ago)

the library of america short story collections, because of their attemps at canonizing, are usually really safe and boring--i would avoid them for genre fiction.

anthony easton (anthony), Thursday, 24 February 2005 14:55 (twenty years ago)

thx anthony: if someone knows a good exciting alternative (but not complete) collection, then plz speak up!!

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 24 February 2005 15:03 (twenty years ago)

Crawling Chaos was my intro to Lovecraft. A chronological selection of his better stories.

lock robster (robster), Thursday, 24 February 2005 15:14 (twenty years ago)

that website i linked to above has all of them online. project guttenburg too, no doubt. i have the three quite thick Voyager paperbacks which collect, i think, everything

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0586063226/qid=1109257944/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_11_1/026-4122893-6431639
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0586063242/qid=1109257836/ref=pd_ka_2/026-4122893-6431639
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0586063234/qid=1109257944/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_11_3/026-4122893-6431639

but others exist (amazon has a whole bunch)

koogs (koogs), Thursday, 24 February 2005 15:20 (twenty years ago)

My fave is "Dreamquest of Unknown Kadath" it's atypical & ecstatic

The Argunaut (sexyDancer), Thursday, 24 February 2005 15:21 (twenty years ago)

I only just noticed this was about Lovecraft as such! ;-)

In America at least S. T. Joshi is seen as the guy who finally presented ol' H. P. in the 'best' way possible, first with a series of buffed-up editions for Arkham and then via two paperback collections which you might want to look into, Mark -- they're annotated editions, the only kind which I know exist. A reasonably good if by no means at all complete selection of tales (including "The Shunned House," which has a lot of info about Rhode Island you'll be tickled by), though nothing in his Dunsany-styled vein is included, to my memory.

M. R. James, of course, is peerlessly fantastic.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 24 February 2005 15:27 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, that's the only one I've actually read, it's cool. There's actually a great comic version as well.

ihttp://www.sonic.net/~jason/dream/dq2-gaunts.jpg

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 24 February 2005 15:28 (twenty years ago)

(xpst)

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 24 February 2005 15:28 (twenty years ago)

i seem to recall shunned house is sorta kinda based on a true story!! (= true vampire legend)

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 24 February 2005 15:29 (twenty years ago)

Joshi's annotation talks about the roots of both the story and the setting, IIRC. Have to look at it again!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 24 February 2005 15:30 (twenty years ago)

Anyway, here are those two editions:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0440506603/qid=1109259071/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/102-2947147-4188134?v=glance&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0440508754/qid=1109259071/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/102-2947147-4188134?v=glance&s=books

You can get 'em both for cheap used and the pound's strong, go for it.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 24 February 2005 15:32 (twenty years ago)

I have the Penguin classics edition edited by S. T. Joshi. I've only read a handful of them so far, but I quite like them. Some of my favorites so far: "Celephais" (with its lovely and haunting evocation of the internal world of dreams) and "The Picture in the House" (with its affectionate disgust at backwoods New England insanity). I have Library of America edition of Whitman, which is quite nice - good readable typeface, voluminous notes, and as completist as any non-specialist could hope for - so I would have been tempted to get their Lovecraft, if I didn't already have a passable edition.

o. nate (onate), Thursday, 24 February 2005 15:45 (twenty years ago)

i was just rooting for my copy, and it is joshi's as well. so there you go.

anthony easton (anthony), Thursday, 24 February 2005 15:52 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, Joshi is pretty much the go-to guy when it comes Lovecraft in general.

Having said all this, let me quote some stuff from the true underrated writing genius of 20th century America (or one of them at least), Avram Davidson:

Avram Davidson wrote a hilarious review of THE SURVIVOR AND OTHERS, a posthumous 'collaboration' between HPL and August Derleth. Originally published in The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction, January, 1963, the review is quoted at length in L. Sprague de Camp's LOVECRAFT: A BIOGRAPHY:


". . . In short, Howard was a twitch, boys and girls, and that's all there is to it.
"Of course, August Derleth feels different. August Derleth is an incredibly active, incredibly prolific writer who lives in Wisconsin and has written somethings like 811 books under his own name; the pseudonyms, who cares? In a way, August Derleth may be said to have invented H.P. Lovecraft, having rescued him from well-deserved obscurity in the Weird Tales files.
". . . We all have our time-bound longings. Horace Gold [former editor of Galaxy magazine] would love to have made love to Nefertiti. I would give lots and lots to have poured tea for Dr. Johnson. And August Derleth, I feel it in my bones, would have sold his soul to an Eldritch Horror to have collaborated with H.P. Lovecraft. And now he has.
". . . As I say, Derleth tries hard, but he doesn't quite turn the trick, because he is as sane as they come and
Lovecraft is as nutty as a five-dollar fruit-cake."

Avram did however make numerous allusions to H.P. Lovecraft in such stories as "Something Rich and Strange" (where computer programming assistance from Miskatonic University helps track down the elusive mermaid) or "Death of A Damned Good Man" (where his narrator muses about the authorship of the famed Lovecrafty couplet "That is not dead which can eternal lie / And after strange eons, even Death may die").

In "The Redward Edward Papers," we find:

"Roy Keith King" is the collective nom de plume (and perhaps the collective unconscious) of the so-called Bloor Brothers.
[. . .] "Rugose, squamous, amorphous; Lovecraft must have known them personally."

In "Adventure in AutoBiography: Kindly Hold Out Your Right Index Finger," an unpublished manuscript dated February 1993, Avram's revision of portions of Dragons in the Trees on the ethnography, language and history of the Black Caribs involves an American anthropologist from "Miskatonic University" seeking blood samples to prove some strange theory.

In a letter to Reno Odlin dated Sept 5 1991:

"LSdeC had a wonderful title: "Eldritch Yankee Gentleman" [title of essay on HPL in Literary Swordsmen and Sorcerers]. Doubleday, claiming that "customers would not know the word 'eldritch'," changed it to "Lovecraft/A Biography." Catchy title, eh? Can you imagine anyone wanting to read it who didn't know what eldritch means? . . . Love the Nyarlathotep letterhead!"

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 24 February 2005 15:56 (twenty years ago)

Taken from here -- the existence of avramdavidson.org is a happy, happy thing.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 24 February 2005 15:57 (twenty years ago)

"Derleth tries hard, but he doesn't quite turn the trick, because he is as sane as they come and Lovecraft is as nutty as a five-dollar fruit-cake."

Avram OTM here, and I'm afraid I think that the same goes for most Mythos writers and disciples. For me, best contemporary is Clark Ashton Smith, outstanding modern disciple is Thomas Ligotti.

Best HPL? You probably need it all. There are plenty of good cheap 3-PB sets, mostly variations on the theme established by the Arkham house collected works, with the most 'accessible' stories upfront in Vol 1.

Me, I've reached the point where I love dubious fragments like 'The Thing in the Moonlight' most of all.

Soukesian, Thursday, 24 February 2005 20:07 (twenty years ago)


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