Why is music derived from Beatles, Beach Boys or Byrds any more derivative than music derived from Velvet Underground, Stooges or even Sugarhill Gang?

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Now here's a point...

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 4 March 2005 10:53 (twenty years ago)

who said that it was? they will be beaten and burned and possibly buggered

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Friday, 4 March 2005 10:56 (twenty years ago)

Get to ILM right this minute young man

― Some Dadaismus Implied (Dada), Friday, 4 March 2005 10:56 (twenty years ago)

I thought I was on the wrong board for a moment there argh.INTRUDER ALERT INTUDER ALERT.

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 4 March 2005 11:03 (twenty years ago)

Whoah... Hi, Geir!

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Friday, 4 March 2005 11:07 (twenty years ago)

ans: Because the Beatles were more successful than the other acts you mention, and the deriviations were closer to the style of the original, in the Beatles' case.

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 4 March 2005 11:15 (twenty years ago)

what's the point of music when you've got an old whore's diet to get you going in the morning?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 4 March 2005 11:16 (twenty years ago)

no-one has ever said that the strokes are 'less derivative' than early primal scream or stone roses or whoever.

interesting point re. the sugarhill gang: can sampling as a praxis be derivative of other sample-based records? apart from other tracks that use 'good times' (i assume you don't mean that all rap tracks derive from this, otherwise all 'rock singing' tracks would derive from chuck berry or whatever) what has been a copy of sugarhill gang?

― NRQ, Friday, 4 March 2005 11:22 (twenty years ago)

with every passing day, Tanya Headon's outlook on music grows more appealing to me.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 4 March 2005 11:24 (twenty years ago)

what has been a copy of sugarhill gang?

where they the first to do the 'MCs one by one in turn' thing on record? obviously that became a standard device quickly enough. prior to that just how common was it for three or more vocalists to feature on a song though, one by one in turn? i am now curious...

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Friday, 4 March 2005 11:42 (twenty years ago)

Oh come on. What about "I can't get next to you chickabum chickabum"

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 4 March 2005 11:51 (twenty years ago)

Or even "Float on"?

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 4 March 2005 11:51 (twenty years ago)

thank you for reminding me. anything else?

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Friday, 4 March 2005 12:10 (twenty years ago)

Parliament - "The Silent Boatman" (and, by the way, if you haven't heard this song download it IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!! It has bagpipes on it!)

― Some Dadaismus Implied (Dada), Friday, 4 March 2005 12:18 (twenty years ago)

what has been a copy of sugarhill gang?

But everyone knows Sugarhill Gang were the copycats, imitating old-school MCs that preceded them, even borrowing their routines word to word. So even if they weren't recorded before Sugarhill, the credit should go to The Cold Crush Brothers, The Herculords, Zulu Nation, Treacherous Three, Furious Five, etc.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 4 March 2005 12:21 (twenty years ago)

Oh, and the "one-by-one-turn" routine surely has roots in older black music styles, such as bebop where everyone solos one at a time. It probably dates back to slave chants or something like that.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 4 March 2005 12:24 (twenty years ago)

And from slave chants to tribal chants.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 4 March 2005 12:24 (twenty years ago)

"one-by-one-turn" = "one-by-one-in-turn"

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 4 March 2005 12:25 (twenty years ago)

fair nuff, i was just thinking in terms of the pop charts really tho.

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Friday, 4 March 2005 12:39 (twenty years ago)

I don't think that's really the issue, though, seeing as nobody's going to say that The Beatles weren't themselves rip-off merchants of older traditions, too.

― emil.y (emil.y), Friday, 4 March 2005 13:27 (twenty years ago)

Tuomas OTM. Sugarhills was sucka mcs

― Don't Ever Antagonize The Horny (AaronHz), Friday, 4 March 2005 14:04 (twenty years ago)

xpost: Yeah, but when the Beatles tried to copy the Everly Brothers, they didn't/couldn't do it exactly, so it came out sounding original, just like when jamaicans tried to copy soul music, it came out as ska/reggae/etc.

― The Argunaut (sexyDancer), Friday, 4 March 2005 14:05 (twenty years ago)

xx-post
Beatles definitely started out as derivative, but at some point around, say, "Tomorrow Never Knows" they ended up doing some shit that's pretty much undeniably "theirs". Sugarhill never did anything original.

― Don't Ever Antagonize The Horny (AaronHz), Friday, 4 March 2005 14:08 (twenty years ago)

Why is music derived from Beatles, Beach Boys or Byrds any more derivative than music derived from Velvet Underground, Stooges or even The Cold Crush?

― Don't Ever Antagonize The Horny (AaronHz), Friday, 4 March 2005 14:10 (twenty years ago)

cuz it's sissyfied?

― The Argunaut (sexyDancer), Friday, 4 March 2005 14:16 (twenty years ago)

No, but that's why it sucks more.

― Don't Ever Antagonize The Horny (AaronHz), Friday, 4 March 2005 14:39 (twenty years ago)

OK, OK now that I've thought about this for a subway ride & cup of coffee...
WITH RESPECT TO VOICE:
The former trio are all group harmonizers, the latter trio use speak-sing, crooning, and rap vocal forms. The latter forms are closest to normal speech, and therefore closer to each performer's individual quirks and personality. Group harmonizing by its nature requires the performers to conform to preprogramed formulae. Since there is a cultural bias toward equating individuality with originality, the Lou Reeds, the Iggies, and the rappers of the world come off as more unique.

― The Argunaut (sexyDancer), Friday, 4 March 2005 15:44 (twenty years ago)

Is anyone here aware that the Velvets were copying massively from the Kinks and the Yardbirds?

Is anyone here annoyed by rhetorical questions?

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 4 March 2005 18:59 (twenty years ago)

what's the song that they ripped off for there she goes again? it's on out of our heads.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 4 March 2005 19:11 (twenty years ago)

I have heard of this music.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 4 March 2005 19:15 (twenty years ago)

Frank, that totally jumped out at me the first time I heard Clapton - The Yardbird Years, esp some of the live tracks.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 4 March 2005 19:26 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...

Now here's a point...

-- Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 4 March 2005 10:53 (2 years ago) Bookmark Link

No there isn't.

― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 27 December 2007 15:43 (seventeen years ago)

pitiful revive even by your standards.

― Alex in Baltimore, Thursday, 27 December 2007 16:00 (seventeen years ago)

he lacks gershy's je nais sais quoi

― sanskrit, Thursday, 27 December 2007 16:07 (seventeen years ago)

Tuomas OTM. Sugarhills was sucka mcs
-- Don't Ever Antagonize The Horny (AaronHz), Friday, March 4, 2005 2:04 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Link

― ian, Thursday, 27 December 2007 17:30 (seventeen years ago)

this is like my favorite one because it has a little whiff of conspiracy theory to it

― J0hn D., Thursday, 27 December 2007 18:32 (seventeen years ago)

if theres anything ilm loves giving a free pass to its jurassic five

― and what, Thursday, 27 December 2007 18:40 (seventeen years ago)

I have never before seen Geir post on ILE - mind = blown

― DJ Mencap, Friday, 28 December 2007 15:42 (seventeen years ago)

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