When someone close to you does not trust you.

(please be sure, first and foremost, that you're being entirely honest w/yourself with regard to your ex-girlfriend)

I can't stand being outright accused of lying when it isnt the case. If after only 5 months she is that weirded out, well you could try cutting off contact with the ex for a while, but I've a feeling she'd hunt for something else anyway (snooping into email, that kind of crap).

She sounds really insecure and flaky, from yr description. Do you need that in a relationship? It will destroy you if it continues, ex or anyone else the focus.

I've told her how much I love her; that I am sorry and feel terrible about lying to her; that there is nothing but platonicity between my ex and I; that I did not realise she was having a bad time at the pub and that I only went off because I thought she was happy talking to my friend; that I worry about her welfare and that I want to be there for her when things get hard rather than to be kept guessing; and that the only reason I lied to her was because I thought she'd get upset (as she has done in the past) because I spoke to my ex.

Anybody who checks your cell-phone messages is already invading your privacy. As part of the conversation you have with her, you might as well tell her that you don't appreciate that, or it's likely she will move into snoopier stuff.

This too is very strange and annoys me a lot. I am by nature quite a private guy and I don't even like people overhearing private phone conversations (as I said earlier). So someone looking at my phone is really fucked up. I told her I didn't appreciate this and she did say sorry, but this was during the time when I was under the interrogation light so it didn't hold much weight.

another strange thing is that she's normally very respectful of the privacy of others. for instance, she hates going through other people's bags or coats to fetch something for them etc.. So why do I get this?

If this were me, I'd be a bit wary. Have you had any moments recently where she's back to her old self (bubbly), or has an atmosphere hovered over things pretty much all of the time lately?

Yes, she is generally an all-round bubbly person and we still have a laugh although the cold atmosphere is happening a lot lately. I'm usually the one who ends up breaking long silences but I end up sounding like a broken record asking "are you ok?" all the time or apologising for things I don't even think are that bad.

Whatever happens, I am buying her flowers and taking her out somewhere this week. It's the least I can do for lying to her, although I can't really afford it since I'm moving at the end of the month. But yes, you're right - very often "relationship talk" can devolve into "words" and then "you said, I said" and then a fight.

She is also in terrible debt from university (letters from debt collectors etc) and is possibly being dropped from her job (which she works hard at and pays fuck all). I've tried to be supportive and positive about this - she will find a better paid job, I am moving closer to her to my own place where she can stay when things get tough etc. But it all feels like cold comfort. Maybe once she does start earning more money and I do move out things will settle however it's never been easy since neither of us are properly welcome in each others' homes and we only chat properly by phone or if we go out (which is expensive) or the few times we can get some private time without our parents breathing down our necks.

But oh shit this is weird. I just texted her at work to say hi and to say I was thinking of her. She texted back "I'm bored at work, what were you thinking about?". I said "I'm not up to much either, just online. Would you like to go out tomorrow or the next day and do something fun you and I?".

The reply?

"So what were you thinking about?"

WTF?

Secondly, SIT HER DOWN AND TALK TO HER. Whatever conversation you'd had in the past clearly didn't work, so do it again. Be nice, and supportive, but just ask her WHY she's being so defensive. If anything, she probably wants you to do so.

Thirdly, if necessary, break off all communication with your ex for as long as necessary. If your relationship is now as platonic as you say, then she'll be fine about this. If not then... well, she's right to worry. If you really can't do this then just be sneaky and change her name in your phonebook. Call her Clive or something.

My suggestion would be to make it clear to her that you'd like to support her, but you want to find some way of doing this that doesn't make you feel like a Doormat. And do so quickly, so that you can either get on with doing this, or run for the hills. It will be better to have a short possibly initially unpleasant conversation and give her one less thing to worry about, one way or the other. If she puts off talking to you about this, try and push that angle. If she still won't, I hear the hills are lovely this time of year :)

OTM.

No, it isn't. You can decide to give up but in my opinion this is a sign of love. It is wrong to snoop but remember the reason why she's doing it: she's very insecure, she feels as though she's lost you to someone else. This doesn't mean you should give in to her insecurity - for example give up your ex - but remember why she's doing it. She's not behaving (for lack of a better word) as she should, she should trust you but that's something one has to learn. Not everyone has immediate trust in someone else. It takes time. Sit down and ask her why she's so dubious of your actions. Each time she does this, let her know, whatever she does, you have no problems because you are faithful to her. But add that you feel she shouldn't be doing this as she's invading your privacy. Explain to her why you lied, because you wanted to ease her worries. You said you've been together five months? Well, for someone that's a very short time to be able to completely trust one.

-> I mean, being worried about his faithfulness.

re: past relationships. She's only ever had one proper relationship which lasted three years at college before she went to uni but, she says, was nothing like we currently have. The guy sounded like a bit of a wanker really and she found him in their bed with another girl.

I've taken this all into account. One can only base current relationships on what one already knows and if everything around you is falling down, it's only natural you're going to expect the worst.

It is worth trying this. Tell your ex the truth, that your current girlfriend is uncomfortable with you guys being friends and you won't be calling her for the foreseeable. Then tell your girlfriend that you have done that and now she has to do something for you, namely trust you and actually tell you when she's feeling neglected and uncomfortable and give you the chance to do something about it.

I've got to say, if I called my other half when we were in the first flush of our relationship, and he was round at his mate's house watching a film, and he didn't leave the room and the film to talk to me on the phone, I would have been pretty pissed off with him. Likewise if we'd been in the pub and he'd gone off and left me to talk to his mate (again in the first couple of months), I would have been pissed off. This kind of thing can settle down after a while.

i think loneliness is sometimes what brings out the worst of these insecurities. if you like see her all the time, then she won't get like "hey he's probably smooching other girls right now sigh etc", cos you know, you're there with her.

This is so so so utterly on the money.

I get the same thing myself. I mean, quite obviously *I* have a huge problem with trust. My father walked out on my mother for another woman, my first long-term serious relationship was riddled with cheating on his part, and my relationship with Joe broke up with him cheating on me with two separate people. Do I have a problem trusting *any* man, ever again? You betcha!

Sometimes this makes me seem like a bit of a nutter when I meet new men. But those that care enough about me to take the time to find out *why* I act like this - heck, I threw a totally inappropriate jealous fit about my bf's childhood best friend! Not because of anything to do with him or with her, but because of the patterns in my own head.

Take the time to talk to your girlfriend, ask her what her experiences have been, what she's afraid of, and just try your best to *not* repeat things which are going to tweak her insecurities, while doing your best to *be* trustworthy.

Good luck.

I don't think this is so much as tolerence as it is romantic wishful thinking. This one's a dud (at this time); throw her back.

well it's worth showing some humanity and giving her some reassurance i suppose, see what happens. but seriously - leaving a pub without saying goodbye cos you didn't psychically notice she was bored by the conversation she was excluding you from anyway - hello passive agressive 13 year old.

Been with my partner ten years now. Found her six months after realizing I had spent the previous four years trying to have a relationship with someone who was, sadly, just plain broken. Nice false dichotomy, kenny baby.

"Some people are not able to relate to other people in a healthy fashion" -- well i'm glad it's an ilx0r who's legislating on what's "healthy" these days.

I am posting anon because I generally post under my real name and I nearly never discuss autobiographical stuff on ilx -- and certainly not my own relationship.

x-post: no, ken, I didn't; but I do think that anybody who reads this story at face value can see that at least the girlfriend in this story has very real problems with trust (not trusting the other person and at the same time violating that person's trust) that are really pure poison to a relationship. Somebody who makes wacky accusations and then checks your phone is not going to come around just because you become a better boyfriend, although it would be pretty to think so.

Basically, she will not be happy until you confess your guilt. No matter how much you claim innocence, she will not be satisfied and will not believe you - until eventually she will force you, through her persistance about you being unfaithful, to be unfaithful. She will make it happen coz that's what she's most scared of.

So long as her fear of you being unfaithful is stronger than her desire to have a good relationship by loving and trusting you, it is going to be bad.

It's her decision whether or not things can work out between you.
It's your decision whether you hang in there to find out what she decides.

You could ask her straight up whether it is more important to her to hold onto the belief that you are unfaithful, or to know that you love her. Being asked like that might shock her into addressing the question consciously.

RE: wifebeater q up there: Anyone who thinks a normal, sane, well-adjusted woman just *suddenly* and *unexpectedly* cops a beating from her partner is just plain wrong (excepting, maybe, where the partner is a psychotic-schizophrenic).

No one does that sort of thing out of character nor out of the blue. People whose self-esteem is in-tact do not end up in relationships with abusive partners, because they don't get into them in the first place.

So basically, it takes a fucked-up woman to get beaten in the first place - not that it is her *fault*, at all, ever - even if she stays with her partner for 20 years & gets beaten every day, it's still not her fault - but it wouldn't have happened if she hadn't been there and she wouldn't have been there if she wasn't fucked up.

And before anyone jumps in to defend their beaten self/sister/mum/girlfriend/daughter etc. as being normal, sane, well-adjusted etc. think about it first - were they a happy, confident, self-loving, optimistic type of a person? Or were they a bit fucked up?

My observation is that abusive guys will often find a woman who seems to be strong , but who actually has a few underlying uncertainties, and first they break their spirit & then they get abusive - but by then they have already destroyed the woman's self-esteem to the point that she *can't* leave. It's very sad. I'm sure it happens to guys too, and isn't restricted to physical abuse either.

I dated a girl (6 months) once and she started exhibiting the exact same behaviour you've been describing. Insisting that I not talk to my ex. So I hid that from her - then she decided she didn't like my female friends. Then all my friends. She would go out of her way to make me choose between her or them. In the end she lost - I didn't appreciate her manipulating me. She would do the snooping thing too but knocked it off (as far as i could tell) when I blew up at her about it. I don't think she did these things because she loved me - I think it was more of a control thing. She'd been hurt in the past - but it wasn't me that hurt her. I was being put through the ringer for what someone else did. In the last month things started to just get way too out of hand with her - I broke up with her on our 6 month anniversary. Shitty thing to do i know - but going beyond the 6 month barrier was not something I was willing to do.

Now I'm not saying that my situation is exactly the same as yours by any means - that's just my take on what seems to be very similar behaviour between my ex and your girlfriend. I think it's funny how Kate can admit to being one to do similarly strange things. You should confront your girlfriend about this destructive behavior. She needs to realize what she's doing and she needs to be able to knock it off. And if your girlfriend is really convinced you're cheating or whatever she should really break up with you (DON'T SAY THAT BIT THO) instead of driving you up the wall and giving you the 3rd degree all the time.

OTFM. Often women who go out of their way to *seem* strong are the ones hiding the fatal insecurities, and abusive men can sniff these out like blood.

This thread has stayed with me all evening and I woke up thinking about it, because it is so close to home in so many ways.

I really *do* object to the person up there who continued to go on about some people just being "broken". I think that is a very dangerous way to think. I would like to think that *no one* is irredemably "broken" (though I probably can think of one or two people in extreme situations who are - or at least are broken and refuse to take the responsibility for fixing themselves.) Your "mentalist" may not be in the right place or time to have a relationship. Or, more likely, she may be unable to have a relationship with *you*. But I would not resort to the "permanently broken" tag without a lot more experience.

Thinking about the original question as well. I think the only thing you can do is go out of your way to be *more* honest. I know from experience that in cases of infidelity it's almost always the *lying* that hurts more than the actual sex or whatever. I wouldn't say cut off the relationship with the Ex. And whatever you do, for god's sake do NOT call them under another name - that will be practically an admission of guilt.

Maybe you can try being a bit more open and honest about your friendship with your ex. Has your current girlfriend met her/talked to her? Maybe if *you* bring it up, and rub home how innocent the conversation is - rather than letting her catch you on your phone log, say "Hey, I talked to my ex last night, we talked about puppies, and I told her how much you like dalmations, blah blah" so that she feels included, she might feel less threatened.

I meant that some people are not capable of being in a good relationship with a certain partner, regardless of how much the other party tries to help

Because let's face it, if *YOU* are constantly trying to *fix* your partner, rather than trying to *accept* them for who *they* are, then *you* may not be the partner for them! (Maybe the "broken" person would actual prefer a relationship where they are given the space and the understanding to sort *themselves* out.)

A relationship where one person is always trying to fix the other is not healthy for *either* person. Because obsessive "fixing" behaviour is still controlling behaviour.

On the way home I told her I wasn't going to contact my ex again. As many people on this thread predicted she didn't really appreciate that particular gesture and felt that it was a false promise I was making against my will. It turned into the start of a row until I told her that I didn't want to fight with her and that all I wanted was to know that I was there and that she's the only one for me and I'd rather know when there was a problem instead of her locking things up and then taking them out on isolated incidents.
We said goodnight. I went home kicking myself because I felt I shouldn't have brought things up when we were having a good time. The next day I told myself I'd done the right thing and that hopefully the penny will drop about what I was trying to say. The next day I texted and amongst day to day stuff I said that I wanted to forget all the previous arguments and start a new leaf. She agreed.

Last night I invited her round to my friend's house (the same place where we were watching the film). She'd never been before and my friend has a French girlfriend who I often feel sorry for as she doesn't really know many people round here, especially girls so I think it was good for them to meet.

I made sure I gave her lots of attention throughout the night - met her at the station, touching her affectionately throughout the night (without looking desperate or clingy of course); engaging her in the conversations that were going on and walking her home at the end of the night. It's not as if I wasn't doing these things before or neglecting her but I found that a little extra attention and effort went a long long way.
It's going to take a little while, perseverance and effort to get back to how we used to be I think. I've come to realise that it isn't either of our faults we're having fights - it's mostly down to circumstance. But the important thing is to be patient and it'll pay off.

I have my fingers crossed. Thanks again to all on this thread.

aww