the horror of pricing freelance (design) jobs

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pricing seems to be one of the most stressful parts of working for yourself. it's a huge part of surviving and many are insecure about it. often i see people (used to be me too, but i'm trying not to) severely undercharging on one job, feeling resentful and exploited so overcharging the next and not getting it so undercharging the next, cycle, cycle, etc, etc. the awkward cluelessness i feel and witness in others makes me think this is jr. high all over again.

i do graphic design and websites. for the latter i've heard anything from $200 to $60,000. i guess it gets easier with experience, but does anyone deal with this? or print design? any advice or anecdotes appreciated!

lolita corpus (lolitacorpus), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 23:33 (twenty years ago)

it sux. sorry

The JaXoN 5 (JasonD), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 23:35 (twenty years ago)

i did a website for a friend's band. i said "pay me whatever you can" because we were friends. i didn't get paid anything. a while later i noticed that the site was down. i made a comment to another friend. he told me, "oh, it's because no one in the band but the lead singer guy (my friend) thought it was worthwhile, so they didn't pay you and eventually let it die".

last month i noticed they had someone else redesign the whole thing. dick holes

The JaXoN 5 (JasonD), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 23:38 (twenty years ago)

I have been trying to figure out how to price my bookbinding commissions. Weird since I'm making two at the moment for people I know, so I feel bad charging them much over my cost of materials. I have a feeling that is too nice and I should fix a price that takes into account my hours on the job etc, but I have no idea what that hourly rate should be!

sgs (sgs), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 23:42 (twenty years ago)

Competitive but not foolhardy.

Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 23:43 (twenty years ago)

Having to price anything creative is hard.

I want to get into this whole photography thing, but I'd be offering more than the usual portrait type service, so I can't simply see what other local photographers are charging, however I want to be able to pay the bills, so I don't want to charge beyond what people would be willing to pay. Ties my head in knots it does.

kate/baby loves headrub (papa november), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 23:44 (twenty years ago)

This is funny 'cause my Dad just asked me the same thing, essentially, for his photography and though I gave him my best advice, it was not terribly helpful.

Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 23:48 (twenty years ago)

people (used to be me too, but i'm trying not to) severely undercharging on one job, feeling resentful and exploited so overcharging the next and not getting it so undercharging the next, cycle, cycle, etc, etc.

story of my life.

lychee mello (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 23:58 (twenty years ago)

ech. ye jaxon, i've had too many dud favors. now i charge everyone. even friends. that might sound shitty but it makes everyone happier. most people who pay nothing are much less appreciative than people who pay a lot. it's a psychological thing. if i get paid everyone starts treating it like a real job and it turns out better.

i think with anything when you start out you just have to start somewhere. even if it's really wrong. and then you get more confident and realistic. there are some guides for pricing creative work like this, but they're confusing too. the prices are usually high and unrealistic, especially for people starting out with friends and small local clients. i'm glad to still have my full-time job while i figure this stuff out.

lolita corpus (lolitacorpus), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:01 (twenty years ago)

most people who pay nothing are much less appreciative than people who pay a lot. it's a psychological thing. if i get paid everyone starts treating it like a real job and it turns out better.

also, if you charge more people will think you're worth more. if you undersell yourself (or work for free) people will assume you're just starting out.

lychee mello (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:03 (twenty years ago)

This is why I have to have a regular 9 to 5 design job and then take bonus work when I can.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:04 (twenty years ago)

Ethical question: do I charge my mother to do her website? It's not just a couple pages like I initially thought, she wants some mad functionality and a significant backend and all kinds of forms and payment processing, and she's like, "Can you do this for me, hon?" like I can just slap it together some late night. It's work, and a goodly amount of it. I don't want to do it at all, much less for free. Maybe I should just tell her I can't do it and recommend someone else.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:10 (twenty years ago)

family complicates it i suppose, but i have always had a very easy rule of thumb for freelance work: how much is your time worth, doing that particular thing? $15/hr? $30/hr? they are buying your labor. the finished product is just a consequence of the time that you've brought your skills to bear on it. so i charge by the hour whenever i possibly can. if you can't charge by the hour, you still can, in a way, by doing an estimate of the time it will take you to finish it. three weeks, 8 hours a day? if your design skills are worth $20 an hour, that's $2400 for the finished product. if it ends up taking you longer, you are "losing" in a way, but that's your own fault for estimating wrong, so it removes the element of "oh they are screwing me." the great thing about doing it this way - whether you are actually getting paid by the hour or not - is that it gives you a baseline for talking about how much you're charging. if yr client asks you how in the hell you came up with your number, you can show them very easily.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:33 (twenty years ago)

is she gonna make money off of it. then of course charge her. she can write it off.

my dad showed me his most current site and it was a piece of shit and he payed upwards of 10g's for it. i thought about telling him to come to me next time but then i thought better of working for my dad

xpost

The JaXoN 5 (JasonD), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:34 (twenty years ago)

is she gonna make money off of it. then of course charge her. she can write it off.

Yeah, it's going to be her mortgage business website. With easy pre-approval online! Easy for them, not so easy for me.

Write off or no, I feel weird charging my mother. I mean, the woman gave birth to me! And this is the thanks she gets?

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:36 (twenty years ago)

Will you benefit from it eventually?

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:38 (twenty years ago)

mommy knows baby has to eat, though

The JaXoN 5 (JasonD), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:38 (twenty years ago)

That sounded bad. You know what I mean.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:39 (twenty years ago)

I would benefit from being able to say I did it, I guess.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:40 (twenty years ago)

Your mom's crazy if she thinks you're going to make her a business website for free, k3nan, sorry but seriously. Or maybe you're crazy for imagining she's not going to pay you! I would imagine she'd be happy to keep the money in the family an ting.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:44 (twenty years ago)

I suppose I'm asking, will it build the overall wealth of the family. Might you need to borrow some money that is made from it? Would you be in line to receive some of that wealth in the future? I'm thinking along the lines of stock options.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:45 (twenty years ago)

High-yield mommy bonds.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:50 (twenty years ago)

Freudonomics!

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:52 (twenty years ago)

This is why I have to have a regular 9 to 5 design job and then take bonus work when I can.

Spencer OTM. i was too paranoid so always quoted dirt cheap, below industry standard because i was scared they'd just go get some 15 year old genius kid to do it for peanuts (there are enough sites out there to make you think they hired a 15 year old only to realise they were far from genius, but still paid them hundreds-thousands anyway). so like him i now have a 9-5 (well, 10.20-7.30 half the time) and do what i can on the side. Only through having the full time job for long enough do i now have the confidence to charge a higher rate.

most difficult part is time estimation, esp. as clients always want to know how long it's going to take without factoring in their own dithering and failure to supply copy anytime soon.

Sven Bastard (blueski), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:53 (twenty years ago)

Only through having the full time job for long enough do i now have the confidence to charge a higher rate.

OTM. Eventually some of those freelance assignments may become regular enough for a designer to quit the day job and then build a business from that (eventually with own office, support, biz dev, more designers, etc).

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:59 (twenty years ago)

This is why I have to have a regular 9 to 5 design job and then take bonus work when I can.

Not quite my path -- library work doesn't per se help in freelance writing work unless you take advantage of the resources -- but yes, this is the best approach, to have a regular solid anchor on the one hand that hopefully allows you to use some skills regularly (or develop a set of complementary ones -- which I have, and I am grateful for it) while the option to do more elsewhere also exists above and beyond the billpaying factor.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 01:01 (twenty years ago)

I don't think I could mentally cope with purely doing freelance work without some kind of trust stipend to fall back on - even though I might be successful at it.

Another obvious example - In LA, a lot of actors obviously do regular things like wait tables.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 01:04 (twenty years ago)

hourly rate x hours spent is a good start, but tough when you are trying to think if it's gonna be 20, 40, or 60 hours. and then corporate/marketing rate is way higher than individual/art project rate. talent/experience value is hard to be objective about. how long does a good idea take? (logos are the worst nightmare - all conceptual time and inherent value guestimating) every job is so different. and then figuring in subcontractors - oy!

currently i'm trying to figure out how much a band site should be for a kinda major/yet alternative label. some flash, backend, etc. are there going rates for this stuff? 5k? 10k? 15k?

lolita corpus (lolitacorpus), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 01:43 (twenty years ago)

Your mom's crazy

OTM

if she thinks you're going to make her a business website for free, k3nan, sorry but seriously

She really does. That's why I need to get rid of this hot potato quickly. Who wants to design my mom's website?

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 01:46 (twenty years ago)

I don't think I could mentally cope with purely doing freelance work without some kind of trust stipend to fall back on - even though I might be successful at it.

I would not be successful at it. I am the world's biggest pussy.

"I think I could do that for $1000."
"How about ten cents? Is that okay?"
"Um... sure!"

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 01:56 (twenty years ago)

eh, mortgage business website? sounds like a day at the carpeting store. maybe it's best left up to one of those $499.99 package deals you get when googling 'website design'. or the $15,499.99 package that is all that plus search engine placement.

lolita corpus (lolitacorpus), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 01:59 (twenty years ago)

For whatever reason, I'm finding it easier to deal with freelance clients as I get older.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 02:04 (twenty years ago)

self-confidence? That'd do it.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 02:04 (twenty years ago)

(clarification above, unfortunately I do not receive a stipend - not sure why I felt like making that point, but whatever).

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 02:06 (twenty years ago)

i'm in the same boat.

although the reason i took a full-time, 'semi design' job cos the guy i do regular freelance for is a total arse (and i'm thinking of cutting myself off from him). i'd be curious to know from other freelancers whether you're treated on the whole with less respect from clients / employers, as opposed to working as a full-timer?

Mil (Mil), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 03:16 (twenty years ago)

eh, mortgage business website? sounds like a day at the carpeting store.

Yeah, no kidding. If I'm going to do something for free, it better at least be fun. I'd rather make a spreadsheet than do this.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 03:22 (twenty years ago)

i used to do freelance illustration, and an art director i was loyal to by way of routinely doing pieces for shit pay actually had the nerve to change one of my pieces himself, rather than follow the normal ethical route of sending it back to the artist w/ changes to be made. i didn't even find out until after the piece was printed. this was made even more ludicrous by the fact that at the time i lived right around the corner from his publication's office and could easily have changed it and handed it back quickly. and then he didn't return my calls (big surprise there) until i went above his head to the editor-in-chief. a kiss-assy, apologetic call soon came my way.

sorry this has fuckall to do with pricing, but i am sympathetic in that i know how frustrating and cruel freelancing can be.

eman (eman), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 03:37 (twenty years ago)

I made the mistake of saying "Sorry, I'm too busy right now" once to a print broker who wanted me to do some spec designs. That was the last I ever heard from her. Is the first rule of freelancing "Fuck you, you're not allowed to say no!"?

Curious George Rides a Republican (Rock Hardy), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 03:43 (twenty years ago)

http://www.talent99.freeserve.co.uk/specs/specs-nerd.jpg

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 03:44 (twenty years ago)

I wonder whether I could be a "designer".

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 03:45 (twenty years ago)

lolita corpus - this book is a pretty good "ballpark" pricing guide for design-related things. it even has examples of contracts (which you might want to consider using with a potentially flakey "almost famous" rock band):
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0932102123/ref=pd_sxp_elt_l1/002-1270496-4709622

eman (eman), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 03:50 (twenty years ago)

It's fun watching the flames on Craigslist from the freelancers who are rightfully outraged by ridiculously priced ads. The latest target was someone who had advertised for Final Cut / web design work for (get this) $20K a year.

Fucking hell folks, you get what you pay for.

Anyway, I haven't really come up with a decent formula for design jobs. For network/system debugging I charge $75/hr and that weeds out the ones that aren't work my time. I charge a little bit more for database work and that seems to work fine. I just wish that word of mouth grapevine was faster.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 05:06 (twenty years ago)

My boss at my day job wants me to set up a database for him: a searchable database of every marina on the Great Lakes, along with every restaurant and bar and repair shop and everything a boater might want, linked up CitySearch stylee so you can search within so many miles of such and such, with maps. I'm so underqualified for that it's not funny. Also, I tried to explain to him that finding someone to do that right is going to cost him... well, a lot. How much I don't know. What's the ballpark for that? More than a new luxury automobile?

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 05:20 (twenty years ago)

Oh, god. Freelance hell. If you can't do it, you can't do it. Maybe parcel out the parts you can do, and explain precisely what you'll need to source out to someone with the proper skills?

I just about lost my mind trying to do basic computer tasks for an academic department, for whatever pittance they gave me, the secretary wanted me to put together a massive web-based searchable library style database of their film inventory, except only accessible to the department, except she didn't want to pay for any new software, or a server, or anything.

Not to mention my last boss who brought me in over winter break once to do some freelance coding and cleanup tasks, and after I asked if they'd up my rate a bit for future projects, said if they did that they'd have to just get someone else. Then, they never called me again anyway. WTF.

I am kind lucky my best mate never went through with her plans to start a small business. She was like, oh, and you can set up a website for us, hooray! OK SURE you have tens of thousands in savings and I am flat broke and in debt so why don't I just WORK FOR YOU FOR FREE?

daria g (daria g), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 06:10 (twenty years ago)

The big disparity is between "business" customers who will pay vastly over-inflated prices without realising, and other customers who don't want to pay a penny.

A few years ago, my boss had a friend - an academic - who wanted someone to set up an email server to run a couple of mailing lists on an old computer he already had kicking around. The boss passed him on to me, and I quoted him the very low price of £50 for (at most) half a day's work. I never heard a thing back from him. What I didn't realise then - but do now - is that for *most* consultancies in that sort of field the going rate seems to be about five times that.

Similarly, I once worked for a company who were paying £300 for web hosting. "That's a bit much," I said, "with the package we've got, we should only be paying about £150 per year at the most." "No," said the manager, "£300 per month." They'd gone for that company because they sounded "very professional", and hadn't got many quotes. They didn't realise - because the management never had to deal with it themselves - that this company's tech support was *far, far* worse than that of companies charging a tiny fraction of the price.

caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 08:47 (twenty years ago)

I once worked for a company who were paying £300 for web hosting.

I am dying -- dying -- to get a job at one of these companies. They might just start overpaying me, too! This is in sharp contrast to my boss, who when we decided to start a new organization, refused to pay the $15 a month I had suggested for a moderate-but-not-fancy web hosting plan. No, no, too much. "That's ridiculous," he said. What? What's ridiculous about fifteen dollars? It's fifteen measly dollars!

We have a $4 a month plan now. It goes down every few days for several hours.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 15:27 (twenty years ago)

Heh. I *wish* they had been overpaying me at an equivalently excessive rate.

caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 15:46 (twenty years ago)

1. hourly rate x hours spent is a good start, but tough when you are trying to think if it's gonna be 20, 40, or 60 hours.

that's something you have to figure out though, because if nothing else yr client's going to be interested in when it will be finished.

2. and then corporate/marketing rate is way higher than individual/art project rate.

that's true. i guess i'd say just fleece them if they're corporate/marketing, and don't if they're not. it's not an exact science i agree but it's not some impossible task to say "okay they get a $10 discount per hour off the normal rate because they're a nonprofit."

talent/experience value is hard to be objective about. how long does a good idea take? (logos are the worst nightmare - all conceptual time and inherent value guestimating)

FORGET "INHERENT VALUE", this is the whole point of what i'm saying. the finished product will have a some "value" i suppose, but forget about that. just think about what value your time has, doing a particular thing, per hour. yes it's impossible to estimate how long it will take to come up with a good idea, but a ballpark figure is doable. say, three one-hour meetings w/yr client, plus four 8-hour days? is that not enough time, is it too much?

every job is so different. and then figuring in subcontractors - oy!

subcontractors is something i have no experience with, but i don't see why this would need to be any difft - how much time will they spend doing what they're doing, and how much are they asking for, and just tack that onto your own time.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 16:13 (twenty years ago)

this whole thing is v interesting to me because it's like two competing perspectives on value - what the client gets, and how valuable it is to THEM vs how much time you spent on it and what your skills are worth. lolita to me it seems that you're adopting yr client's perspective on this, the boss's point of view, rather than yr own point of view, the laborer's point of view.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 16:17 (twenty years ago)

argh! my achilles heel

Sven Bastard (blueski), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 16:18 (twenty years ago)

THAT DOES IT I'M GOING TO HOTDESK IN MY TRAILER

Sven Bastard (blueski), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 17:07 (twenty years ago)

i'm trying to think of a way this could actually work. i like the idea of us coming together through ILX to provide some kind of service to people, what with the different perspectives and ideas people have as well as skills. i mean if i was offered some work by someone but required some assistance i could contact somebody on here with those skills and see if they wanted to assist in the project, just for starters.

Sven Bastard (blueski), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 17:15 (twenty years ago)

Absa-tootly.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 17:39 (twenty years ago)

By which I mean, I think ad-hoc may be the only way to go here.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 17:50 (twenty years ago)

At least, until we're ready to start "practicing."

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 17:50 (twenty years ago)

Generally, the sort of people that hire a FREELANCER to design their website aren't going to want to spend more than $3500 MAX

i'm not sure what this means. wieden kennedy hires freelancers, time magazine hires freelancers. many people who've made a name for themselves in any given field are freelancers. and even among indivuals or small companies who buy websites, a lot aren't start-ups - they're just expanding to online.

but yea, it's funny ilxors don't collaborate more. or maybe we'd all end up hating each other. heheh.

lolita corpus (lolitacorpus), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 21:09 (twenty years ago)

unless you're amon duul.

but i am amon duul.

eman duel (eman), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 21:50 (twenty years ago)

Okay guys. Here's something I'm going to throw out here for discussion.
One link is my company's redesigned site as it was at the beginning of the week; another is what's happened to it since. Both links are to screen captures of the homepage design. Something to keep in mind when evaluating both pieces is that when you get to our portfolio page the banner will be designed along similar lines but about 60% lighter because our portfolio images will be overlapping the banner slightly.

So... tell me what you think. Help me explain to my CD why his vision for our site makes me want to puke - or help me see why he thinks his changes are the best thing ever (which I'm sure - you'll all agree with me - they're not).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/dysign/ilx/home1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/dysign/ilx/home2.jpg

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:18 (twenty years ago)

I'm not crazy about that specific purple color, but I do like it softer.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:25 (twenty years ago)

White background = enormous improvement.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:25 (twenty years ago)

Once you've had an objective look you can see what I mean with the portfolio page. Below is a link to a screen capture of the current look for our portfolio pages.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/dysign/ilx/portfoliosample.jpg

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:31 (twenty years ago)

So I need help explaining to the CD why his is the most awful idea ever. I'm having trouble coming up with the words.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:32 (twenty years ago)

I think the white background is good but the washed-out colors on the second one make it look post-apocalyptic.

teeny (teeny), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:33 (twenty years ago)

Agreed. I blame that shade of... what is that, plum? A blue instead wouldn't look washed-out, it would look soft.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:34 (twenty years ago)

The second one is much better (much easier on the eyes, at least!), but the graphic could be tweaked a bit more. The color of the text in the graphic seems wrong. White background is indeed much better. I like the portfolio image popping up into the banner, though.

Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:36 (twenty years ago)

Maybe you should explain to us what your problem with it is, Thermo, and that'll help you sort out your thoughts.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:36 (twenty years ago)

It's a % of the red in our (stupid) logo - that red sphere in the bottom left. Greying the colour a bit was all I could do to keep it from turning pink.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:38 (twenty years ago)

The colors in the first imager are warmer, more vibrant, and more inviting. I very much like the white background though, with the 1-px line to delineate the main content area, I think that's a huge improvement.

It looks to me like your designer wants to use the colors in yr company logo as the palette for the site. The problem is that it's just not lively, it looks vaguely rusty and dead, rather than alive, like the palette in yr first image is.

cross spots

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:41 (twenty years ago)

My problem with the CD's version is well i just plain hate the colours he used. They're pretty much just random colours he came up with. I think they clash with the red we've used so far as a highlight colour (the red from our logo). And they're just too in your face I guess. They'd totally overwhelm any design work on our portfolio page (and in the little flash intro I designed). Plus the black background i feel completely dominates the screen making the actual page look less attractive... even kind of smaller.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:44 (twenty years ago)

That was a x-post.
So maybe i should see him half way re: the colour. Make him pick just 1 that will blend a bit easier with the items that are supposed to be the focus (portfolio shots, intro etc) and is a bit more lively than the "plum" colour. And stick to my guns with the black background.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:47 (twenty years ago)

don't really like the disintegrated/mortar-shelled kind of font used for the word "stanford." it doesn't look right, reminds me too much of ray gun magazine's "poor design choices as aesthetic." and the burgundy colored part should go back to the original two color look over the all white background.

eman (eman), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:49 (twenty years ago)

Oh, see, I thought the black design was the one you were deviating from, not towards. Yeah, your ideas are vastly better.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:50 (twenty years ago)

Ok, now knowing that, the only problem I can see with it is the color the logo. I doubt that will be changed, understndably, even though orange-red fading into grey is pretty shitty-looking. But if your CD isn't sticking with the logo colors, neither should you. Go crazy. But keep it soft.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:54 (twenty years ago)

I agree about the raygunned (look ma - I made a new verb!) font style. But that's a fight I choose not to pick!

xpost - I just suggested using trying a green hue instead (for the banner) i think that might play well off our logo.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:57 (twenty years ago)

You know, instead of the "TIDE" look.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:58 (twenty years ago)

Dude I'm now totally confused about which one you like, and which one your designer did!

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:59 (twenty years ago)

He likes the one that's good.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:01 (twenty years ago)

The white one with just the one colour. The bright one with the black background is what my creative director asked me to do to it.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:16 (twenty years ago)

The black background is the dealiest element there. It kills everything.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:21 (twenty years ago)

Word. I like having a bit more color in there though.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:28 (twenty years ago)

Maybe that's what yr dude wants, more color? Maybe you can find colors you can both agree on? How about this thread --> Pink is the new Pale Green - Color Trends in Fashion & Design

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:38 (twenty years ago)

Thanks Tracer. I've lurked on that thread quite a bit but I don't think it's going to be much of a help. I've got pantone books all over the place here - the boss isn't making my job easy though instead of settling on a colour before i get to work he's insisting that I set up a new site for every variation!

Basically I want to find whatever will play best off this red.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:53 (twenty years ago)

Well... I thought I'd punched in the right colour #.
Whatever... it's the red in the logo I'm looking to get some sort of harmony with.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 17 March 2005 20:55 (twenty years ago)

no colors on ILX anymore.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 17 March 2005 21:08 (twenty years ago)

awww :(

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 17 March 2005 21:22 (twenty years ago)

do you think this is worth it? usually those things are a lotta money for a lotta nothing, but this one's playing on my insecurities right now because i *really* need to learn more flash.
http://www.flashforwardconference.com/

lolita corpus (lolitacorpus), Thursday, 17 March 2005 23:52 (twenty years ago)

do the people who are demanding flash from you know what the hell they're talking about?

teeny (teeny), Friday, 18 March 2005 00:31 (twenty years ago)

no one's demanding it. i just wanna.
not for entire sites, just for really tactile details and coodd conceptual stuff.
how come this text entry text is so weird. sorry if theis message doesn't come out right.

lolita corpus (lolitacorpus), Friday, 18 March 2005 04:26 (twenty years ago)

i don't think you're going to learn any flash there. these things are not designed for people to pay for themselves, they're designed for people to take a holiday on the company dime and show off a little and play golf.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 18 March 2005 17:54 (twenty years ago)

haha yes.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Friday, 18 March 2005 17:56 (twenty years ago)

Any computer tutorial that's worth a shit is one you can do on your own computer, I think.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Friday, 18 March 2005 17:57 (twenty years ago)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/dysign/ilx/orng.jpg

So this is the compromise I offered up. I think it looks pretty darn good.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 16:31 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...
ha ha, my 'agent' just 'fired' me because I objected to his needless pedantism re invoice description and the client in question, surprise surprise, fail to see why i should be paid at all (or so it feels). stupids.

$V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 19 May 2005 11:06 (twenty years ago)

i have just started doing freelance work on the side of my normal job for "marketing consultants", ie: people who don't actually work for these tech companies as employees, but are contracted themselves. I'm a bit worried I won't get paid because I'm really like a subcontractor. I suppose this is always a concern.

kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 19 May 2005 13:13 (twenty years ago)

You'd better believe it.

$V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 19 May 2005 13:20 (twenty years ago)

my g/f works in this field. it seems quite hectic. why don't people know what they want, she sometimes asks.

N_RQ, Thursday, 19 May 2005 13:22 (twenty years ago)

eleven months pass...
Hey! I need a freelance web designer, kinda soon'ish. Have OK budget. Not great, but not shitty. For fun fashion related website. Yes, Email or IM me - we can talk!

No flash, only HTML, fun project, okay money.

phil-two (phil-two), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 19:27 (nineteen years ago)

phil you've been MALED

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 19:37 (nineteen years ago)

i maled u back.

phil-two (phil-two), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 19:59 (nineteen years ago)

seven years pass...

I fired a client today. There's so much weight off my shoulders now I can repel gravity.

Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 30 April 2013 03:38 (twelve years ago)


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