Why is rock club design so consistently boring?

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Last weekend I went to this Tragic Beauty art exhibit/rock show at the Open End Gallery here in Chicago. Basically the concept is that several artists took over a gallery space and created an environment using discarded materials. There were these structures that went up the walls, a little house/cabin thing, and a stage that looked like half of a boat, on which bands played. It wasn't entirely successful, it still looked like a gallery/art space, but it got me thinking about why rock clubs always look the same, whey they never attempt to create any kind of atmosphere/environment that might be more conducive to a mood other than "Oh, I'm at a rock club." I would love to open a club that was essentially blank, and then invite artists/designers to totally recreate the environment every 6 months. My idea was a forest environment, with trees in the audience and on stage, and instead of an abrupt stage, a gentle hill that slopes up to where the band performs. Obviously this is all just a pipe dream, but it seems like it might inspire bands to perform differently at different shows rather than always sounding the same (because all the clubs look the same). So why do rock clubs always look the same? What environments (artificial or natural) would you like to see music performed in?

n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I really like the coffeehouse look, though maybe something on a slightly larger scale, so as to actually have room for instruments, etc.

I'm really tired of the black walls look that makes you feel like you're playing in a cave, albeit a very hot, stuffy one.

Sarah McLusky (coco), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I played a show at the Experience Project in Seattle once and it was LAME. I yearned for a dark, plain, smokey club - like the Bottleneck.

andy --, Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sure that the short ladies would just love those trees in the audience.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha ha. I'm one of those trees!

I'm tired of smoke too.

What's that place like, andy?

Sarah McLusky (coco), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

i miss shows at the flux arts factory in queens. they had a gigantic ice mountain with caverns you could hang out in, made of like plastic and foam and stuff.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I've played a "stage" that was no more than a wobbly loft in a barn. I've played "stage" that consisted of a series of tables pushed together on top of the ice at an ice skating rink. Personally, if there is STABLE FLOOR beneath my feet, it's a good gig.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I guess part of the idea is to keep the design bland so that people focus on the bands, but who wants to stare directly at the band for an hour? Wouldn't it be nice to have something else to look at?

n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:46 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost - Desisn-wise, the Experince is a total eyesore, interior and exterior. It's trying to be 'cutting-edge' or something, which means alot of purple lights and stainsless steel. It looks like 1996 futurism. The stage was probably six feet high, you could easily have walked on the unfortuate audience members heads. It sucked, and they only gave us one beer apiece.

andy --, Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:46 (twenty-one years ago)

graffiti is art.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I want to see a show in a Room of Boobs.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:51 (twenty-one years ago)

You mean you want to see the Indigo Girls?

dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:54 (twenty-one years ago)

No, no.

http://www.photoblog.be/carmen/images/000/389/389377.jpg

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 31 March 2005 19:55 (twenty-one years ago)

See though, rock club design leaves lots of room for creative bands to work with. When I played in this band teh M4nnequ1ns, we would bring mannequins dressed as all sorts of who knows what on stage, and had our own (ghetto) light show!

nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 31 March 2005 20:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Bear in mind that live music club proprietors:

1) Usually are renting their spaces, often in "edgy" (i.e., high-crime, ripe for gentrification) neighborhoods.

2) Must meet the club's payroll, provide sound and lighting systems, and fill related business functions.

3) Must prioritize patron security and safety (e.g., adequate emergency exits) (unless the local authorities are extraordinarily corrupt or inept).

I like what the Black Cat has done with its current space, but honestly, its decor is the least of my considerations when I'm going to a show there. If I'm anticipating down time between sets or during a tedious opener, I can bring a book or newspaper.

j.lu (j.lu), Thursday, 31 March 2005 20:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely that's the Korova Milk Bar, Sunburned?

Anyway, to answer the question, I'm afraid rock club design is largely boring because people are largely boring. Especially people who go to rock clubs. Rock is an inherently conservative artform. The archetypal rock instrument is still the Fender Stratocaster guitar, the same thing Bob Dylan strapped on forty years ago. Not a detail of that design has changed, because rock believes in "classic timeless values". Forty years is a long time for a music form to stand still -- even 18th century orchestras didn't do that. It's what happens when an artform has run out of ideas, no longer believes in innovation, and becomes an interpretive art instead of a creative art. Rock concerts increasingly resemble popular classical concerts, with modern artists merely interpreting the works of venerated masters.

Rock club design echoes this same "classicism", which is in fact conservatism. The classic rock environment is a bar, a dive, a dark, dirty place where "primal" behaviour -- fights, fucking, vomiting, swilling back intoxicants -- can return always in the same forms. The rock club is a "timeless" part of the human soul, the part that doesn't want to evolve, doesn't want to try anything new, just wants to stagger about drunk in the dark. Even Alex and his Droogs took care to dress up in nice bowler hats and innovated by wearing their underpants directly under their braces! They actually went round to people's houses to deliver their "ultraviolence" rather than blundering about in some basement crushing broken beer bottles underfoot.

If rock is ever to go anywhere, to come back to life at all, to seem even remotely alive and progressive, I think it will happen in art galleries. The art gallery is a clean, well-lighted white space suitable for new beginnings. The future is there. Maybe not for rock, though.

By the way, I recommend this radio programme, House of the Future. If only rock had a fraction of the attitude of Archilab's Peter Cook and David Greene, interviewed here!

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 31 March 2005 20:23 (twenty-one years ago)

j.lu OTM.

club design is boring because there's so many practical issues to consider.

also, who really cares about decor? i suppose you also listen to bands with good haircuts.

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 31 March 2005 20:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I hug Momus.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 31 March 2005 20:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, it's hard to distinguish the design of a place that gets the shit beat out of it every night. Take a look at the floors, walls, etc. at a live music venue - they're like prisons with a cover charge.

Brian Miller (Brian Miller), Thursday, 31 March 2005 20:43 (twenty-one years ago)

If rock didn't hold on to that conservatism, we'd be inundated with bands like... Sigue Sigue Sputnik!

Rock's family tree is deeply rooted in the old folk scene, which also was very uncomfortable with change or innovation. That said, most of the places I've seen that really worked to have a new design element - the LA Knitting Factory, or the Leadmill in Sheffield - have failed miserably, creating cavernous, sterile and tacky "spaces". But classic old ballrooms like San Francisco's Great American or the Metro is Boston make you feel like you're really somewhere special.. lots of gold pillars and red carpet, etc. I'd go that route, more "Cabaret" than "2001".

andy --, Thursday, 31 March 2005 20:44 (twenty-one years ago)

First of all, I understand there are issues of practicality/safety. That's why I said in my initial post that I recognize this is a pipe dream. I, personally, am bored of how rock clubs look. And maria, you hurt me in my heart. It's not a trendiness issue. I, as someone in a band, would like to play in an environment that is inspirational from an aesthetic viewpoint. I'm betting there are other performers who feel the same way. The example that I provided is an admittedly out-there one, but there are simple things that could be done as well; ie, maybe also rock clubs could not always paint the walls black.

n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 31 March 2005 20:45 (twenty-one years ago)

brian, they dont have to be. its that audiences / bands assume these spaces are their personal playgrounds and that its OK to fuck shit up.

if/when i own my own club, its not going to look like ass.

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 31 March 2005 20:45 (twenty-one years ago)

n/a, sorry if i hurt your feelings! its not that im against places that look nice. see my comment above.

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 31 March 2005 20:47 (twenty-one years ago)

it's hard to distinguish the design of a place that gets the shit beat out of it every night

I dunno. I've witnessed very few instances of anyone beating the shit out of anything in my years going to rock shows. It's a combination of neglect and a conscious aesthetic decision to make (or allow) the place *look* like it's all rough-and-tumble. There's no reason to expect that the kind of venue frequented by Death Cab for Cutie fans would be subject to a lot of nightly abuse, or at least not the kind that couldn't be cleaned up with a little effort. And if it's clean to begin with, it's less likely to be abused.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 31 March 2005 20:48 (twenty-one years ago)

If rock is ever to go anywhere, to come back to life at all, to seem even remotely alive and progressive, I think it will happen in art galleries.

I thought Momus was joking when I read that. I actually laughed and thought, 'that is so Momus, that deadpan wit'. Then I realised he was serious. Which made me like it even more.

Scroll up to sunburnt and snowblind's pic from the only interesting part of Clockwork Orange the movie - that's what a rock club should look like. But, as Brian says it would only look like that for three weeks before it started looking like the inside of a sweaty boot - the ultimate fate of all rock venues, whatever the intention.

Here in Sydney they do a lot at the rock/electro clubs with odds and ends from recycling depots. Cheap decor that you can trash - they hang stuff from the ceilings etc.

moley, Thursday, 31 March 2005 20:50 (twenty-one years ago)

And while I don't judge bands by their haircuts, I am impressed with bands that attempt to provide some kind of visual element to their show. I mean, people are watching you, shouldn't you try to appeal to them visually as well as aurally? It's a fine line, I guess, it could easily become an annoying gimmick, and it's something my own band doesn't really do, either.

n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 31 March 2005 20:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I always sort of liked the GO Studios in Carrboro, NC. Sort of Finnish modern inside, with red paint on the walls. I think it's closed now.

andy --, Thursday, 31 March 2005 20:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean, people are watching you, shouldn't you try to appeal to them visually as well as aurally?

http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/gliterrock/indexpics/ziggy/sukita4.jpg

Gimmicks aren't necessarily annoying gimmicks. Sometimes they're awesomely weird.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 31 March 2005 20:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Momus is right of course, however, when I go to see a rock band at a rock club, or even go to a rocknroll flavored dive, it's basically what I'm in the mood for, like Sushi or Pizza.

Another note, I don't get the hate for The Knitting Factory LA. A lot of people hate it but it just seems like any old live venue to me.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 31 March 2005 20:57 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.timestereo.com/art/caroliner.jpg

Caroliner Rainbow!

andy --, Thursday, 31 March 2005 20:58 (twenty-one years ago)

i like the spaces i book for right now -- they're both red. silk city has an asian thing going, tritone is just cozy.

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 31 March 2005 20:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, rock was revived in art galleries decades ago. It's long dead. I think Loveless was basically the end for rock.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 31 March 2005 20:59 (twenty-one years ago)

But classic old ballrooms like San Francisco's Great American or the Metro is Boston make you feel like you're really somewhere special.

I love the Bowery Ballroom. But how much would it cost to create something like that in a blank space?

Also, what about smokers? Even a Death Cab for Cutie audience is going to puff out enough smoke to tinge the walls, and probably stub out cigarettes on floors and walls.

j.lu (j.lu), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I HATE the LA Shitting Factory. I scoffed at the $5 pints and the guy shrugged - "Hey, it's LA, bro." Indeed.

andy --, Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:01 (twenty-one years ago)

most of the places I've seen that really worked to have a new design element - the LA Knitting Factory

Whaa? I've played the LA Knit and it was just such a let-down! It managed to feel like a reconstruction of a rock dive in a shopping centre. Totally like a set in the Rock'n'Roll hall of fame, or a Planet Hollywood or a Hard Rock Cafe. If that's working to have a new design element, God help us all!

Places that have at least tried: Arospace in Seattle (although the best bit is the backstage downstairs). Super-Deluxe in Tokyo (designed by Klein Dytham). Think Zone used to be good (also Tokyo) but that's gone now. The main element in the design there was ceiling-mounted video projectors throwing flowing patterns across the whole crowd and floor.

If money were no object I suppose rock clubs would look like rock videos. They'd be like pirate ships, Grand Canyon clifftops, or the inside of nuclear reactors.

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:03 (twenty-one years ago)

That's a bit more like it!

A rock band in an art gallery. Anyone seen it happen? Does it work? I am deeply skeptical. I have seen the odd 3 piece act (usually low key and jazzy) in a gallery and the sound is bad, people mill around drinking wine, and no-one really looks comfortable or receptive. My impression is that art galleries do nothing for art, let alone music.

moley, Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Once you're inside the LA Knitting Factory, it's just like any other rock club - i.e. all other rock clubs may as well be in shopping malls anyway, like Chinese takeout places.

Also, $5 pints is pretty common for L.A.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I've seen many rock bands in many art galleries and I usually wish they'd stop.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd just be happy if the Double Door finally replaced the once-unhinged, now-missing seat from the toilet in the men's bathroom.

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Like I said, this art show thing I went to last week wasn't entirely successful. Part of the problem was that the ceilings were really high, like maybe 30 feet, and the art, at its highest, only went up about halfway, and above that was just plain white walls and rafters, so it still mostly felt like a gallery, it wasn't really immersive.

n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:08 (twenty-one years ago)

jay, ill get my friend chris working on that.

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't stand the smell of old smoke. Blech.

Maybe it's hard to come up with a neat space out of nothing, but I'm sure they are a lot of spaces that already have a lot of character that could be renovated.

Sarah McLusky (coco), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Now the best gigs I've ever been to have invariably been in giant shitty warehouses that were former factories or whatever, and they've been full of people's crazy art, performance stuff, and various DJs and a real smorgasbord of different kinds of bands playing.

Eg, Mekanarchy: http://www.mekanarky.com/menu.htm - literally a former icecream factory now taken over by various weird arty types.

moley, Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I like house shows, especially ones where a whole bunch of artsy kids live together, because it feels more cozy and alive at the same time.

Sarah McLusky (coco), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:15 (twenty-one years ago)

There's no reason to expect that the kind of venue frequented by Death Cab for Cutie fans would be subject to a lot of nightly abuse, or at least not the kind that couldn't be cleaned up with a little effort. And if it's clean to begin with, it's less likely to be abused.

I don't know... I work in a bookstore and all those meek bookworms do a pretty good job of trashing it daily. If you opened a live music venue where people were expected to be tidy you'd be going against a lot of ingrained behavior. Mostly likely people would just stop going to your club instead of change their habits.

I also suspect the same patrons who wish their frequented club was nicer are the same ones who are uncomfortable at nicer clubs because they "feel sterile" i.e. they can't just throw cigarette butts and empty cups on the floor.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:21 (twenty-one years ago)

At the Phantasy Niteclub here in Clevland, there's a pirate ship in the club. The sound guy sits on the bow and there's room below deck for four seats. I think there's a mast as well.

laurence kansas (lawrence kansas), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:25 (twenty-one years ago)

we're not talking about complete destruction here. but the frequent spilling of beers, walls getting marked up, etc do add up in the long run.

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Now the best gigs I've ever been to have invariably been in giant shitty warehouses that were former factories or whatever

OTM. Some clubs have done wonderful things with old industrial space. However, imagine you're a rock club proprietor who is renting such a space. Do you want to put money into improvements that you can't take with you if the landlord kicks you out? A lot of spaces like these are coveted for yuppie "loft" development; what happens when the landlord is approached by a developer?

j.lu (j.lu), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I like shithole rock clubs -- CBs, C0ntinental, C0ney !sland High. M0t0rhead ain't gonna play on a sloped hill of grass. It just doesn't work that way.

Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:33 (twenty-one years ago)

On the other hand, how much money would you make if you created a space bands actually got excited about playing and audiences got excited about going to, rather than feeling obligated to go there to hear live music?

n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:34 (twenty-one years ago)

n/a, varies from city to city.

cost of the building
licenses [live music permit, etc etc]
sound equipment
decor

thats just the start of it.

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I just find it hard to believe that someone with some creativity and imagination couldn't create interesting, nonstandard rock club decor for the same price that they would pay to buy a bunch of shitty booths, matte black wall paint, and neon beer signs.

n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:42 (twenty-one years ago)

For what it's worth, the neon beer signs are promotional gifts from beer companies.

j.lu (j.lu), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:47 (twenty-one years ago)

well, see. thats where this whole discussion gets circular. why spend money on making something look nice if people are going to fuck it up?

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

OK, bad example. I just meant that the same amount of money could probably be used in a more creative fashion, that it doesn't have to cost more necessarily.

Also "nice" doesn't have to equal fancy or easily damaged.

n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:52 (twenty-one years ago)

most club owners are not that creative and would rather conserve money than spend it. i mean, wouldnt you if you just spent 100-500K on a space?

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I realize I'm not really giving any examples. I just find it odd that people are actually arguing with me about this, like the current club design is the pinnacle of possibilities in terms of aesthetics and value. I understand there are practical considerations, but isn't there also room for improvement?

n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:54 (twenty-one years ago)

For the record I really like Bimbo's in SF.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:56 (twenty-one years ago)

btw, i understand what you're trying to say.

things i do if i owned my own club:

- make it non-smoking
- no alcoholic beverages sold
- acoustically awesome
- spaces for people to sit & socialize, as well as stand and watch the band

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not sure I agree about no alcohol, but your other suggestions are great, especially the last one.

n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:57 (twenty-one years ago)

there's always room for improvement, but most club owners are concerned with keeping their business afloat than they are with aesthetics.

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:57 (twenty-one years ago)

jay, ill get my friend chris working on that.

Not Chris Bar0nn3r, is it?

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 31 March 2005 21:59 (twenty-one years ago)

there are almost no small venues [200 or less capacity] to hold all-ages shows. and a liquor license can start at 500K in this city.

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 31 March 2005 22:00 (twenty-one years ago)

also: i dont drink and tire of having to go to spaces / deal with people whose only interest is to get trashed.

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 31 March 2005 22:02 (twenty-one years ago)

n/a, I sympathize - I'm currently working on the design of a live music venue/bar. Momus is right in part - rock club audiences see a perceived 'realness' in dumpier venues.
Dance club design has gone a lot further than live music venues, because the market supports it. Live music audiences just aren't demanding nicer looking/smelling venues, unfortunately.

Ultimately, rock club patrons aren't willing to pay an extra dollar a beer to be in a nice atmosphere.

Brian Miller (Brian Miller), Thursday, 31 March 2005 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Here's the cover story from yesterday's Willamette Week about a great space (imho) that opened up not to long ago in Portland that seems to address a lot of what is being discussed here...

FIR FRENZY
Doug Fir unleashes the no-smoking,done-before-midnight, post-everything, bring-your-parents, 21st-century designer rock club.

BY MARK BAUMGARTEN, ZACH DUNDAS

It's Saturday night, and Doug Fir-the two-level inner-eastside nightclub that looks like Paul Bunyan's vacation home in outer space-is blowing up.

A perfectly coifed throng of nightclubbers crowds the street-level bar, an intoxicated traffic jam of pressed shirts and faux furs. The restaurant in the complex at the corner of 9th Avenue and East Burnside Street is abuzz, its staff of beautiful, tattooed, brown-T-shirted twentysomethings hustling drinks, burgers and fries sizzling out of the kitchen.

The most significant thing about Doug Fir, however, isn't happening in that crowd at street-level. It's happening underground in the lounge where Lou Barlow is playing.

Many of the people milling through the club's sleek, gold-lit basement are just the sort one would expect for an indie-rock mainstay like Barlow. They're skinny; they're young; their haircuts are shaggy; they're wearing tight vintage T-shirts. But also in the crowd: everyone from a 50s-ish woman in a black velvet dress to three bachelors on the make with military crew cuts. This is not a normal rock club-and that's why it is threatening to change everything.

Once a greasy-spoon relic from the '60s, this 10,000-square-foot cube was transformed last October into a ski lodge with Jetsons-esque cocktail chic. Much talk about the combination bar-restaurant-rock club has focused on architect Jeff Kovel's design. In the New York-based magazine Metropolis, former WW staffer Karen Steen enthused: "Doug Fir's juxtapositions of high and low, sleek and rough-hewn, are both comical and lovely."

Yet its visual flair makes it easy to miss Doug Fir's true impact on Portland's cultural fabric. In six months, Doug Fir's below-street-level, 300-capacity live-music room has become the most celebrated, and in many ways most innovative, rock club in a city loaded with them.

A typical issue of WW lists well over 100 clubs and other venues in its nightlife directory. The range is wide-from the Dunes, a tiny bar behind an unmarked door on Northeast Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard, to the Rose Garden, local way station for overblown, overpriced and over-everything touring rock gods like U2.

Doug Fir competes for a specific niche in that market, against other clubs-like Dante's, Berbati's Pan, Nocturnal and Holocene-each with capacity of a few hundred. These clubs vie for the most buzzed-about local bands and touring acts on the rise. But Doug Fir, owned by longtime local rock promoter Mike Quinn and two partners, snaps up sought-after acts from a Wild Kingdom of pop genres. A week at Doug Fir can veer from British hip-hop to alt-country to the avant-garde band with a drummer who lives in your neighborhood.

Buying up talent, though, is just part of Doug Fir's novel equation. The club is a carefully crafted environment, designed to lure a broad array of nightclubbers. Shows start and end early. There's no smoking. As trivial as those tweaks seem, they're bold moves in a business better known for its eccentricity and edgy volatility than its marketing savvy.

The city's vibrant music scene is a big reason Portland attracts fresh blood. According to a study by local economist Joe Cortright, Portland is adding college-educated 25- to 34-year-olds at a rate five times the average for the 50 largest U.S. metro areas.

"The influx since I moved here in 2000 has been amazing," says Adam Mackintosh, the booking agent at Dante's, one of Doug Fir's direct competitors. "It's gotten to be like Austin, where people move to town just because they're into music."

So even if it proves fleeting, Doug Fir's rise as a new kind of club on a formerly seedy stretch of East Burnside marks a significant moment in a key local cottage industry. Doug Fir's owners specifically crafted it to compete in an age of fragmenting music genres and splintering audiences.

"Part of the idea is that you've gotta make your venue like Disneyland," says Quinn, who has booked rock shows in Portland since the early '80s and used to own LaLuna, a fabled (and defunct) club just a block south of Doug Fir. "The venue itself has to be a draw."

The best measure of Doug Fir's success so far: how the club's competitors are scrambling to keep up. They're knocking down walls. They're remodeling their bars. They're banning smoking. In a couple of cases, they've even surrendered and shut down.

"I wouldn't say that we are making the changes we are solely because of Doug Fir," says Chantelle Hylton, who books bands for Berbati's Pan, a venerable, brick-lined club in Old Town. "But it definitely has made us think more creatively about the way we present our shows." Berbati's recently started renovations to boost capacity, added more free shows and prohibited smoking in its live-music space.

"Clubs are always changing," says Hylton. "But sometimes

it takes a bit of a push from somewhere to make those changes happen."

If a single word could capture Alicia Rose, the woman in the middle of all the ferment Doug Fir has agitated, it would be "moxie." A tall woman with meteoric purple highlights through her black hair, the club's booking agent cuts a striking figure. After about 10 years as a Portland fixture, Rose juggles a dizzying number of projects, both creative and commercial.

She performs herself as-of all things-an avant-garde accordionist. Until the end of 2004, she managed a large CD distribution company. Now, she runs international distribution for cocktail-jazz stars Pink Martini. She shoots publicity photos for folk-pop band the Decemberists. Fifteen years ago, she was hiring bands to play San Francisco clubs she was barely old enough to drink in.

Her résumé basically makes Rose the ultimate indie-music "geek"-her word. When she found out Quinn and John Plummer, two longtime pals from Portland's small music-industry circle, planned to open a club, she wasn't shy. [Editor's note: Rose, Quinn, Hylton and Mackintosh are, or have been, on the board of MusicfestNW, WW's annual music festival.]

"Plummer was like, 'Well, I'm not sure who's going to book it...,'" Rose recalls. "And I told him, 'Look, I'm only going to say this one time, but I'm a secret weapon.'"

Quinn and Plummer hired Rose as Doug Fir's booking agent-in Nightclubland, a combination curator and sales manager, the person who hires bands, signs contracts and sets door prices. Rose attacked the job with her signature typhoon energy, plus a Rolodex bulging with national contacts and fiercely catholic taste. Just about every club varies its musical diet to a certain extent; Rose takes particular pleasure in shifting gears.

This Thursday, for instance, Doug Fir stages the first-ever

Portland appearance by Dizzee

Rascal, a critically acclaimed MC from London's East End. Two nights later comes Ida, a breathy, dreamy band with as much in common with Dizzee Rascal as Finding Neverland has with Black Hawk Down.

"I want to see the best of all genres," Rose says. "What I'm thinking is, how can I pull from 20 different subcultures?"

She is, by all accounts, a tough competitor. Some say Doug Fir often simply outbids competing clubs for choice touring acts. "There have been a few times when they've just gone over the top," says one insider, who preferred not to be identified given the small, tight-knit and generally collegial nature of the local music industry.

Rose acknowledges-volunteers, actually-that she's aggressive. In addition to sometimes outbidding rivals, Doug Fir can offer weary bands a room in the adjoining Jupiter Hotel, one of Portland's trendiest. She says her national contacts often give her a jump on acts hitting the road.

However, Rose argues that Doug Fir's musical success has less to do with dealmaking than with a zealot's attention to detail. Unlike most local booking agents, Rose never lets an outside company promote a show in her room-she maintains total control over which bands play, and which bands play together. For every show, Rose burns a customized compilation CD of music to play between bands. She also chooses the music that plays in Doug Fir's upstairs bar/restaurant, which draws diners and drinkers from all over the metro area.

"It's part of creating a whole experience," Rose says. "What I want is for people to start thinking, 'Well, I don't know about any of these bands, but if it's at Doug Fir, it's gotta be good.'"

And Rose's fanatically detailed "whole experience" plays out in a club that, itself, is different by design.

One afternoon in June 2003, Jeff Kovel picked his way downstairs, into the basement of a decrepit '60s diner. Kovel, 30 at the time with a handful of high-profile design jobs under his belt, had no idea this urban twilight zone would turn into his biggest project so far.

The underground den had lived former lives as a punk club and a parking garage. Dingy white panels covered the walls. A wagon-wheel chandelier hung in a shabby little hideaway lounge. The tile ceiling was purple.

"Things were leaking all over the place," Kovel says. "There were rats. I mean, the place was trashed."

At the time, Kovel's commission was to remake the courtyard parking lot of a sleazy old Travelodge, which was becoming the retro-hip, boutique Jupiter Hotel. While surveying, he wandered into the defunct restaurant at the property's edge. In the basement, he pushed up one of those purple tiles to reveal pristine concrete cut into a waffle pattern.

"Never painted, never touched," Kovel recalls.

He thought, hmm....

After glimpsing the restaurant's well-hidden bones, he called Quinn and Plummer, partners-in-nightlife for whom he'd designed East, a modish lounge in Chinatown, three years before. The troika decided to create a club unlike any Portland had ever seen.

"I'm in my mid-40s," Quinn says. "It seems like a lot of us are cursed with liking bands, wanting to go out to see them, but not being quite as young as we used to be. It was a sense I got from people I know, saying they'd go out a lot more if the experience was a little different."

Kovel, too, wanted to break the mold. "For most new clubs, the design consists of, 'Well, we can paint it black and hang a curtain over here,'" the architect says.

Early in his career, Kovel had worked on a house built for rock star Lenny Kravitz in Miami. He applied lessons from hammering together a home recording studio to the subterranean space. The bar, for instance, which like the upstairs lounge is made out of sliced sections of log, is designed to diffuse sound waves. A wall of upholstered acoustic foam is cut to resemble the big rounds of pine that define Doug Fir's look.

More subtle distinctions were brought to bear, too. From the beginning, Doug Fir banned smoking. Portland clubs traditionally operate in their own time zone-about an hour and a half behind the real world. In contrast, Doug Fir's shows start promptly at 9 pm and end, with weekend exceptions, around midnight.

These moves may seem pedestrian, but they're also highly unusual. Music critics for weekly newspapers in Seattle, Minneapolis, Austin, Philadelphia and other cities say there's nothing quite like Doug Fir on their beats.

And all those small stratagems serve the club's larger goal: to broaden Doug Fir's appeal by attracting both younger scenesters and older people interested in music, but not necessarily the-shall we say-"lifestyle issues" traditionally involved.

The Doug Fir crew is looking to harness some elemental changes in American pop music. In the iPod age, with unknown independent bands a mere mouseclick away, keeping up no longer demands obsessive attention to 'zines and the wisdom of record-store clerks. Gone, too, are the days when you couldn't trust anyone over 30. First-wave punks could be in their 50s now, and scenesters from the Northwest's '90s alt-rock explosion are as likely to have mortgages as vintage Sub Pop vinyl collections.

"Now you can draw on people in their 20s, 30s and 40s," Rose says. "I have friends who've brought their parents to shows here. That's pretty remarkable."

A rock club where you can take your parents? A scene in which thirtysomething professionals matter just as much as 22-year-old hellions? It's a bold act of re-imagination.

"I've toured all over the country and Europe," Rose says. "In the majority of clubs, you have to hang out in a bar that smells like piss and watch a band play on crates. We're trying to revolutionize that experience."

No one would mistake Doug Fir for church camp. Both upstairs and downstairs bars sell plenty of booze. Downstairs, staff and customers are equally tattooed. Undoubtedly, though, the place is way too boutique for some Portland tastes.

"I've seen some good bands there, but I really don't like the place," says Peggy Dainty-Cross, who pogo-ed to punk bands at the Doug Fir building's former incarnation as the Chinese Tea Room and worked at EJ's, a gloriously gritty, much-missed club. "There's no grime at the Doug Fir. Every morning at EJ's I'd have to mop up all the blood and vomit from the show the night before. If someone threw up at Doug Fir, I think they'd have to bring in a professional cleaning crew and sterilize it."

Kovel gets her point. "It was a fine line for me," the architect says. "You could argue that a big part of the attraction of going out to a rock club is the rough-around-the-edges feel. I guess the jury is out. At least now, whether you love it or hate it, you have something to compare everything else to."

Doug Fir's closest competitors certainly have taken notice.

"When we saw Doug Fir on the horizon, we were like, 'Oh, God, here comes the crunch,'" says Adam Mackintosh, the ringlet-haired, 32-year-old booking agent for Dante's, a club decorated in red velvet and midnight black at the corner of 3rd Avenue and West Burnside Street.

Dante's luxe-bordello look suits both the acts it books-a mix of cabaret eccentrics and over-the-top rock acts-and its sexy vibe. The club hosts an exotic dance revue every Sunday, and there's a strip club called Aja's upstairs. Dante's owner Frank Faillace also runs Exotic, a magazine dedicated to the "adult services" industry.

Dante's looks and feels, in other words, like the kind of racy scene your mama warned you about. Over the last few months, though, its swagger has been shaken.

Mackintosh, who frequently tours Europe with his own rock band, Gruesome Galore, has a keen sense of how Portland's various clubs fit together, both economically and culturally. He says things have been tight since last fall. At about the same time Doug Fir opened, another new East Burnside club, a refurbished ballroom called Bossanova, debuted in the old Viscount space. Suddenly, the city's established midsized live venues-Dante's, Berbati's, the east side's Nocturnal and Holocene-faced a competitive crisis.

"Two months ago, it was really starting to feel like there were too many midsized clubs," Mackintosh says. "Things were oversaturated. Suddenly, every small room in town started doing live music, too. Something had to give."

For Dante's, which opened in 2000, what gave was bricks and mortar.

"It merited Frank knocking out a wall," Mackintosh says. "I think he was losing sleep-three or four nights in a row-wondering just what the hell we were going to do."

This winter, Dante's ripped out its bathrooms, creating a more spacious live music room and allowing it to reconfigure its bar service. Again, it's seemingly little stuff-little stuff Mackintosh says means the difference between rocking on and hanging a FOR LEASE sign on the door.

In addition to Dante's cool style and reputation for treating bands well, the club's grand-central location in Old Town, the pocket of 19th-century buildings home to Oregon's densest concentration of taverns, makes it a place many musicians would kill to play. Like Doug Fir, it draws a wide range of audiences: the Japanese punk band Guitar Wolf, country troublemaker Hank Williams III and German rock icon Nina Hagen have all sold out shows there recently.

Still, Mackintosh says, the game has changed.

"I don't know how many times we've looked at the calendar ads and been like, 'Wait, how did that show go to Doug Fir?'" he says. "We've had that band play here three times, and lost money every time. How did it happen?

"It stings," he says. "It's like we were these bands' publicity agents, and then they fired us when they got big."

(Part of the club's advantage, Mackintosh and others say, lies in the fact that another Quinn venture, MonQui Presents, wields leverage by putting thousands of people and hundreds of bands in large venues across the Northwest.)

Dante's isn't the only club grinding gears. In addition to Berbati's remodel and other moves, Holocene is adding seats, improving its acoustics and playing around with a Spanish theme for summer. Nocturnal and Bossanova both scuttled their live-music business in February, shifting to emphasize rental events and the lounge business, respectively. Surveying the battlefield, Mackintosh says a little sledgehammer work was necessary to give Dante's a fighting chance.

"Were we going to knock down the wall sometime anyway? Probably. It was on the list of things to do, some time after you answered the 300 emails every day from bands wanting to play here.

"Well, it came to the point where it needed to happen. When it becomes essential to your survival, you do it."

The road of the local music club has never been easy. The economics are confusing and ever-shifting. The hours will exhaust you; the temptations could turn your liver to alcoholic pate.

The business's many vagaries can transform clubs lauded by bands, fans and critics into boarded-up shells with astonishing speed. Just three years ago, the Blackbird, on Northeast Sandy Boulevard, was the hot new name, winning slobbery praise from rock writers and driving its rivals to distraction. Now it's long gone. Two years from now, Doug Fir could join the Blackbird-along with EJ's, LaLuna, Satyricon and countless other nightlife ventures-as a fading memory.

For now, though, this club with a dramatic look is thriving. There's something different going on here, and almost everyone, like it or not, has had to react.

"It's obvious every time someone plays there for the first time that it's not business as usual for them," Kovel says. "No one gets on that stage without saying something about it to the crowd."
Originally published 3/30/2005

Find this story at www.wweek.com/story.php?story=6155

ianinportland (ianinportland), Thursday, 31 March 2005 22:16 (twenty-one years ago)

i miss shows at the flux arts factory in queens. they had a gigantic ice mountain with caverns you could hang out in, made of like plastic and foam and stuff.

-- hstencil (hstenc!...), March 31st, 2005.

That is (was?) a great place. We played there nce and our lead singer found romance in the ice cave. But then the dolt lost her number. Idiot.

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 1 April 2005 01:23 (twenty-one years ago)


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