People Patting themselves on the Back For Not Watching Television, Eating At Chain Restaurants, Listening to the Radio, etc. : C/d?

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ostentatious

adj 1: intended to attract notice and impress others; "an ostentatious sable coat" [syn: pretentious] [ant: unostentatious] 2: of a display that is tawdry or vulgar [syn: pretentious, kitsch]

― latebloomer: AKA Sir Teddy Ruxpin, Former Scientologist (latebloomer), Sunday, 3 April 2005 21:50 (twenty years ago)

we have done this already.

― hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 3 April 2005 21:51 (twenty years ago)

yeah, but why is this thread thriving? ugh.

Your secret mental list of chain restaurants that you will not frequent

― latebloomer: AKA Sir Teddy Ruxpin, Former Scientologist (latebloomer), Sunday, 3 April 2005 21:53 (twenty years ago)

Mmmm, a big steaming bowl of kitsch — classic.

― Curious George Finds the Ether Bottle (Rock Hardy), Sunday, 3 April 2005 21:53 (twenty years ago)

admittedly i will die an early death from my love of fried fatty foods. but i will die a happy man.

― latebloomer: AKA Sir Teddy Ruxpin, Former Scientologist (latebloomer), Sunday, 3 April 2005 22:00 (twenty years ago)

I eat a fair bit of beef jerky and take pride in the fact that as I do so I feel myself dying slightly. Is this what you mean?

― Patrick Allan (adr), Sunday, 3 April 2005 22:20 (twenty years ago)

indeed, i live as a Viking!

― latebloomer: AKA Sir Teddy Ruxpin, Former Scientologist (latebloomer), Sunday, 3 April 2005 22:24 (twenty years ago)

I was listening to NPR today and...

― absolutego (ex machina), Sunday, 3 April 2005 22:29 (twenty years ago)

kind of a christian ascetic thing isn't it?

― ryan (ryan), Sunday, 3 April 2005 22:30 (twenty years ago)

(we can also add "not dating republicans" to the thread title...)

― ryan (ryan), Sunday, 3 April 2005 22:31 (twenty years ago)

kind of a christian ascetic thing isn't it?

-- ryan (augustuscaesar2...), April 3rd, 2005.

no, more in that i live to plunder, pillage and eat everything, enmnjoying y short and brutish existence. hail odin, etc.

― latebloomer: AKA Sir Teddy Ruxpin, Former Scientologist (latebloomer), Sunday, 3 April 2005 22:37 (twenty years ago)

i mean 'enjoying'. sheesh. my viking bloodlust got out of hand there.

― latebloomer: AKA Sir Teddy Ruxpin, Former Scientologist (latebloomer), Sunday, 3 April 2005 22:38 (twenty years ago)

the "not watching television" part irritates me to no end. cmon, television rules! there's a new cable channel called american life and they've been running shows like chico and the man and long-forgotten early '70s crime drama the f.b.i.. this morning i flipped over to tvland and gladys knight was performing on the flip wilson show. just now, north by northwest was on tcm, followed by a pretty good "making-of" mini-documentary. tv! it's good!

― jody von oy (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:14 (twenty years ago)

it's a loaded subject heading. people patting themselves on the back is inherently dud.

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:19 (twenty years ago)

Miccio OTM. Jody, ok, you like television. So how does it follow from that that it's irritating if someone else doesn't?

― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:23 (twenty years ago)

It's not the not-liking-television that's annoying.

― adam (adam), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:24 (twenty years ago)

oh yeah, and american life is also running the '60s jackie gleason show! gah, what a comic genius.

Jody, ok, you like television. So how does it follow from that that it's irritating if someone else doesn't?

because if they don't even watch it, how do they know they don't like it?

― jody von oy (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:25 (twenty years ago)

what sort of crazy person would pat themselves on the back for not listening to the radio? i'm confused.

― gem (trisk), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:27 (twenty years ago)

because if they don't even watch it, how do they know they don't like it?

um, because I watched TV for a whole lot more years than I didn't? And I don't pat myself on the back for not having a TV. Never sitting through ads is its own reward. I'm more than entertained enough by music and the net (DVDs on occasion, though usually only socially). TV would be a distraction.

And the nether regions of digital cable != "television."

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:33 (twenty years ago)

yeah cable's not widespread right

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:36 (twenty years ago)

haha i do read sometimes too (though that I didn't mention it is part of why I don't think I'm hot shit for not watching TV)

x-post $$$ you pedant

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:37 (twenty years ago)

my mom just switched from digital cable to normal cable after realizing she was mainly watching DVDs anyhow. Last time I was there I spent an afternoon watching BET, a three stooges marathon and Manhunter. Ads suck.

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:38 (twenty years ago)

that's fascinating. give yourself a pat on the back.

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:38 (twenty years ago)

you bitter man

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:40 (twenty years ago)

Jody, I spent 80% of my years watching television, and every time I go home, I still tend to turn on the TV with the purely innocent hope that I will be entertained, and most of the time, I am not.

I do sometimes wish I had HBO so I could watch shows like Deadwood (which I've only heard about). But I can get that on DVD now, can't I?

― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:41 (twenty years ago)

um, because I watched TV for a whole lot more years than I didn't?

but you're basing your opinion of tv on the way tv was maybe 5 years ago. if you watched now you'd see different programs, different channels, different commercials. plus, saying you hate tv is like saying you hate music or food -- it's an awfully broad statement and dismisses the entire breadth of a very diverse and populous ecosystem.

― jody von oy (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:42 (twenty years ago)

i'm basing my opinion of TV based on what I see at other people's places as recent as this weekend. I hate ads and TV is where I'd have to deal with them.

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:44 (twenty years ago)

couldn't you just watch the non-commercial channels, they don't have ads

― gem (trisk), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:44 (twenty years ago)

riight

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:44 (twenty years ago)

Miccio is OTM about patting yourself on the back being inherantly duddish.

To me, "I never watch/hate television" is not that different from bragging about not reading books or liking music of any kind. Plenty of excellent art has been made for television, and I think that willfully avoiding art is distasteful. It's one thing to show discretion (duh, lots of crap is on tv, same is true of EVERY OTHER ARTISTIC MEDIUM KNOWN TO MAN), but ridiculous cultural asceticism in the service of snobbery is another.

― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:46 (twenty years ago)

"tv is where i'd have to deal with them"

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:46 (twenty years ago)

perpetua OTM -- it's like saying "i've decided i hate music because my friends always drag me to see this one jam band and they suck and i hate going to bars and waiting around between sets."

― jody von oy (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:47 (twenty years ago)

i think sometimes the difference between saying you don't like something and patting yourself on the back is the defensiveness of the person who brought it up.

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:48 (twenty years ago)

i'm basing my opinion of TV based on what I see at other people's places as recent as this weekend.

Dude, it's not television's fault that your friends have shitty taste!

― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:48 (twenty years ago)

people are too cranky. who decides to hate anything, life's too short.

― gem (trisk), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:48 (twenty years ago)

hating people who hate mediums - c or d?

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:50 (twenty years ago)

show me an example of someone hating someone on the basis of their hating a medium

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:51 (twenty years ago)

and I'm grateful my friends have TV. I wouldn't get to see BET Uncut otherwise. It's fun as a social activity, I just dig it when I'm by myself. Sorry if that bothers you.

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:52 (twenty years ago)

you're just misunderstood that's all

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:52 (twenty years ago)

I want to clarify one thing from my post just above - I don't think that just not liking a kind of artistic medium - film/tv, theatre, music, fine art, comics, books, radio, etc - is necessarily a bad thing. Some people don't have room in their lives for everything or don't have access, period. That's fine. I just think that it's really gross when people brag about not engaging with an entire artform as though it is something to be proud about, especially when their only exposure has been to crap and it's more about them being lazy than anything else.

― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:53 (twenty years ago)

bragging is bad

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:54 (twenty years ago)

Ok, I'll try to lay this out as best I can:

1) I don't like ads or shows that are cut up into 20 pieces in order to make room for ads, thus eliminating for me the majority of television.

2) I do like a few television shows (Conan O'Brien and The Daily Show, for example), but none enough to warrant having a TV)

3) I am an addictive personality, and if I have a TV, I will watch it a lot, including watching a lot of stuff that I don't really want to waste my time watching. Hence I'd rather just not have it in my house at all.

. Plenty of excellent art has been made for television, and I think that willfully avoiding art is distasteful.

Oh, is that right??? So when was the last time you attended a ballet? Seen any good Chinese Operas lately? Who's your favorite ceramicist? Name your top 5 slam poets.

― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:55 (twenty years ago)

http://mi7.bpcdn.us/grafix6/1.gif

― maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:56 (twenty years ago)

hahahaha

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:57 (twenty years ago)

Hurting, you might want to check out that last post I wrote before yours for my answer to your question.

― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:57 (twenty years ago)

I just dig it when I'm by myself

woops. meant 'don't dig,' natch

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:58 (twenty years ago)

you bitter man

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 4 April 2005 00:58 (twenty years ago)

But I would not say that I am willfully or actively avoiding Chinese opera, ballet, etc, but I certainly am not going around trying to convince anyone of how cultured I am for refusing to go to the ballet.

― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 4 April 2005 01:01 (twenty years ago)

i don't think anyone here likes the strawman in question who does.

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 4 April 2005 01:02 (twenty years ago)

lesley ann warren's on desperate housewives next week yall!

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 4 April 2005 01:02 (twenty years ago)

Skipping 54 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

the thread makes it clear cos it specifically says "people who pat themselves on the back"

I understand that, but if we're going to ascribe the condition to real-life situations, you have to ascribe the diagnoses of that condition to a real-life situation, too. Like I said several posts ago, how does he know? How does he know pretentious from opinionated? He doesn't. None of us do. Pretentiousness is not a condition whose only symptom is bitching about TV, and that's rather what the thread set-up implies.

FWIW, I do give latebloomer more credit than that as a whole, I just think that starting this thread was a bad impulse.

― sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Monday, 4 April 2005 04:32 (twenty years ago)

how the hell does the thread setup imply that 'pretentiousness is a condition whose only symptom is bitching about tv'??? and how the hell is anti-elitism a 'bad impulse'???

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 4 April 2005 04:35 (twenty years ago)

if you're into bad impulses, im going to be chicago tomorrow so i'll let you deep throat me if you want to pat yourself on the back for not being homophobic or racist.

― phil-two (phil-two), Monday, 4 April 2005 04:37 (twenty years ago)

dude, it's pretty easy to tell "pretentious" from "opinionated"

also the thread set up is not just about tv at all, it was turned into such by later posts.

― Allyzay Subservient 50s-Type (allyzay), Monday, 4 April 2005 04:37 (twenty years ago)

kenan you are seeing ghosts. go to sleep.

― mark p (Mark P), Monday, 4 April 2005 04:38 (twenty years ago)

xpost to blount -- I'll talk to you if you stop being an ass about everything. This is an interesting discussion, after all.

how the hell is anti-elitism a 'bad impulse'

It's not, but it can be just as much a knee-jerk impulse as elitism.

― sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Monday, 4 April 2005 04:38 (twenty years ago)

if you're into bad impulses

You know I am!

im going to be chicago tomorrow so i'll let you deep throat me if you want to pat yourself on the back for not being homophobic or racist.

That's the fairest trade I've ever heard of.

― sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Monday, 4 April 2005 04:38 (twenty years ago)

(Seriously, phil -- what time? What area? Wanna eat a lotta beef after I get off work?)

― sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Monday, 4 April 2005 04:40 (twenty years ago)

dude, it's pretty easy to tell "pretentious" from "opinionated"

BUT IT'S NOT! THAT'S THE WHOLE THING!

― sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Monday, 4 April 2005 04:43 (twenty years ago)

IT'S NOT FOR YOU! APPARENTLY!

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 4 April 2005 04:45 (twenty years ago)

When you're looking for people who are really interesting, and really special, apart from whatever by-rote social banter they may have planned -- no, it's not easy to tell. Assholes can be amazing people, and nice guys can be the most boring people on earth, and it's all too personal to talk about, really.

Which is why I take exception to the thread premise. It's limiting. That's all.

― sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Monday, 4 April 2005 04:49 (twenty years ago)

you're limiting, and i take exception to you

― mark p (Mark P), Monday, 4 April 2005 04:51 (twenty years ago)

many do.

― sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Monday, 4 April 2005 04:52 (twenty years ago)

That's the fairest trade I've ever heard of.

ohh if only every straight guy were as open-minded as you..

anyways, tv is for people with no social lives. by "people with no social lives", i mean "people who dont go out and get wasted at open bars all night every night". though ive heard deadwood is good. and i think one of the CSI guys is kinda hot. and one of my friends is fucking one of americas next top models. and there are still no asians on network television.

― phil-two (phil-two), Monday, 4 April 2005 04:56 (twenty years ago)

there's asians on medical shows!

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 4 April 2005 04:57 (twenty years ago)

oh plz. obviously... thats like saying "hey! there's asians on that show about doing dry-cleaning for white people. and giving them manicures too!!!!"

― phil-two (phil-two), Monday, 4 April 2005 04:58 (twenty years ago)

Asians are good studiers. Ain't you heard that?

― sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Monday, 4 April 2005 05:01 (twenty years ago)

that sex and the city where the girls got pedicures had asians on it!

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 4 April 2005 05:04 (twenty years ago)

i go out and get wated every night and i love tv

― charleston charge (chaki), Monday, 4 April 2005 05:07 (twenty years ago)

and that seinfeld where elaine goes and the korean girls talk shit about her. margaret cho had that tv show that lasted a season, but thats it. i dont get it. white people have CBS, NBC, ABC, half of Fox. Black people have the other half, and all of UPN. what do asians people get??? we do pedicures for sarah jessica parker!!!

― phil-two (phil-two), Monday, 4 April 2005 05:16 (twenty years ago)

lucy liu!

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 4 April 2005 05:19 (twenty years ago)

oh the asian maybe-lesbian bitch sex-kitten... yes. her.

― phil-two (phil-two), Monday, 4 April 2005 05:20 (twenty years ago)

man lucy liu is the only non-medical show multi-season recurring non-animated asian tv character i can think of.

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 4 April 2005 05:25 (twenty years ago)

i guess there's that asian guy in the cingular tv ads who is always clowning that fat white guy. that makes me feel good. if he weren't SO SHORT.

― phil-two (phil-two), Monday, 4 April 2005 05:27 (twenty years ago)

yeah dude, exactly, there's a difference between the person sitting in a conversation of three people about a television show they all saw who gets asked their opinion and then replies with "Well actually I don't own a tv/watch tv much to be honest, sorry guys!" (ie sorry, no, and that's why I'm being quiet until you guys are done, sorry) and the dude who feels the need to announce his tv-less-ness and prattle on about it and condemn television etc etc!

this thread was meant to be about the second dude.

FWIW, I do give latebloomer more credit than that as a whole, I just think that starting this thread was a bad impulse.

-- sunburned and snowblind (fluxion2...), April 4th, 2005.

yeah, somehow i knew i was gonna regret starting this thread.

anyway, for the most part you're probably right, but i've known someone who said onetime in a conversation several times "I never watch tv, it's so stupid and commercial" and then later on ask me, "Dude did you see Seinfeld last night? It was AWESOME!"

but then again, i probably just know too many dumbasses.

― latebloomer: strawman knockdowner (latebloomer), Monday, 4 April 2005 05:28 (twenty years ago)

anyways. i'm a GOOK. a FAG. and i love POPEYES FRIED CHICKEN. but i would like to see more GOOKS on TV, and not goddamn BD WONG playing a priest on OZ. because OZ is for FAGS ANYWAYS. not sure about the radio though because all the asian folk i know cant sing worth a foodstamp.

― phil-two (phil-two), Monday, 4 April 2005 05:31 (twenty years ago)

i always hate people on friendster/myspace for "favorite TV show" they write like "I DONT WATCH TV BECAYSE IT IS FOR PEOPLE WITH NO INTELLECT, ETC".
xp.

― phil-two (phil-two), Monday, 4 April 2005 05:32 (twenty years ago)

bd wong's on one of the law and orders too! i think he's on the fag one though.

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 4 April 2005 05:33 (twenty years ago)

ayways, yes, that thread made me really mad because it was a bunch of white people saying "i never noticed race until i was like in high school". nigga plz!! only white people say things like that! and theyre the only people who eat at dennys

― phil-two (phil-two), Monday, 4 April 2005 05:42 (twenty years ago)

I never noticed race until I ate at Denny's at 3 in the morning, and some big bitch chased me around the parking lot with her jelly shoe, accusing me of calling her... um... the "n" word, when in fact she was just drunk out of her mind and totally imagining things. That, I think, is when I truly became aware of race relations in America.

― sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Monday, 4 April 2005 05:51 (twenty years ago)

But to be fair, phil, I'm being at least half joke-y (though I really did get chased around a Denny's parking lot with a jelly shoe for a racial crime which I did not commit) -- but that's an interesting statement, and probably a whole other thread.

― sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Monday, 4 April 2005 05:56 (twenty years ago)

I quit watching TV about ten years ago (cept for the news & Nickelodeon). It was a gradual withdrawl, after the heyday of 90210/Melrose Place the magic evaporated! I really go out of my way not to brag/backpat myself about it, figure it makes me pretty strange as well as sounding like a snob. Sorta like my relationship w/sports, which I've always hated and have to fake some interest in as most guys casually assume other guys are up on "the game."

It's really down to timing and priorities, those few hours at the end of the day are my only chance to read books, a diversion I've always vastly preferred to watching televison. So I don't brag about it, but I'm sure as shit not going to apologize either.

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Monday, 4 April 2005 09:43 (twenty years ago)

the town of Arlington, MA collectively owns this thread.

― AaronK (AaronK), Monday, 4 April 2005 12:56 (twenty years ago)

And not listening to radio sucks. BBC Radio 4 pwns you all.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 4 April 2005 13:08 (twenty years ago)

Anal Cunt owns this thread.

― absolutego (ex machina), Monday, 4 April 2005 13:12 (twenty years ago)

I love television (not the band)

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 4 April 2005 15:42 (twenty years ago)

I remember once getting the bus into town, and this old guy, who was thee only other passenger started talking to me about football, right? Only I'm really not interested in football, so I said "I'm not really interested in football", but he kept on going on about it in this really intense way, so I said again that I wasn't interested in football, and this went on for a bit until he got the message, so he started talking to me about horse racing, so I just sort of pretended to be interested rather than be even ruder than I'd already been, I suppose.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 4 April 2005 15:52 (twenty years ago)

I used to never watch tv. And it’s not because I was being a snob, either, it’s just because I was too lazy to get addicted to any shows. I think really you have to see the first episode to get hooked. I watch three shows pretty regularly and that’s because I watched them from the beginning. I also hate channel surfing. I LOATHE IT. I also hate those television shows that are like, countdown shows, like the 40 hottest celebrity bodies, or the 100 hottest tv moments. Oh god, kill me. So I tend to leave the tv off if I know there isn’t anything good on. Anyhow back in the non-watching TV days when I told people I didn’t watch tv they would automatically think I was being a snob.

Some friends and I were talking about television at the communist bookstore – how the hell I ended up there I do not know – but anyhow, some annoying twat piped up, “TV IS EVIL!!” and I said, “No, you’re wrong, it’s heavenly.”

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Monday, 4 April 2005 15:58 (twenty years ago)

I may be a 'snob' but I don't think it makes me a better or happier person than anyone else. I just know what I like and why I like it.

― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 4 April 2005 16:03 (twenty years ago)

The one point that I agree with Kenan on is that it *is* hard to tell opinionated from pretentious. You may be able to make a snap judgment about someone w/r/t this but that doesn't mean it's accurate! Sometimes two people can say the exact same thing but the way they say it will cause you to label one pretentious and the other opinionated, but you don't know either of these people so maybe that's just how they talk and it's totally superficial. I think it takes a lot of interaction and context in order to get a feel for where someone is coming from (well, some people are glorious assholes and you can see that after 10 seconds, but i find them to be the exception).

― ()ops (()()ps), Monday, 4 April 2005 17:10 (twenty years ago)

I qualify for all of the above activities?

Am I happier for it? Hell yes.

Do I pat myself on the back for it? For greater peace of mind, yes.

Do I brag about it? Of course not! That's silly.

"Patting oneself on back" is not equal to "Bragging about it".

The former must be some sort of colloquialism I've been missing all this time.

― donut debonair (donut), Monday, 4 April 2005 18:03 (twenty years ago)

those god damn commies!

― pinko fagz, Monday, 4 April 2005 18:05 (twenty years ago)

That said, as far as TV goes, I totally indulge in it whenever I get a motel or hotel room. I make a point to reserve time to watch TV during these mini-vacations, actually, just so I don't feel totally out of the loop in case I'm in a circle of people who talk about a TV show or movie I've never seen or heard of.

― donut debonair (donut), Monday, 4 April 2005 18:06 (twenty years ago)

For the record: I FUCKING LOVE TELEVISION.

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Monday, 4 April 2005 18:07 (twenty years ago)

Do you love television fucking?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 4 April 2005 18:07 (twenty years ago)

Ew, Tom Verlaine all up in my thong? Raggett, please.

I also get my blast of commercial radio whenever I take a cab home half the time (yes, the cabbies here listen to NPR half the time.) I find myself liking what I hear... probably because I'm never overexposed to it, so I don't ever experience this pop culture angst that I used to have in my younger years. Probably why I don't mind, say, Limp Bizkit. I only hear a song by them a few times a year.

― donut debonair (donut), Monday, 4 April 2005 18:08 (twenty years ago)

I just KNEW someone was going to pull a Verlaine reference. I should have said "I FUCKING LOVE TV."

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Monday, 4 April 2005 18:10 (twenty years ago)

Getting a bit of MTV/VH1 at Vic's place yesterday was enjoyable. Mind you, the Kelly Clarkson video is ass (the song's good) and John Legend is...what, the R'N'B Chris Martin?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 4 April 2005 18:10 (twenty years ago)

I want the green t-shirt she's wearing in that video. I love the way it fits.

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Monday, 4 April 2005 18:19 (twenty years ago)

Amerie's bandstand dudes were okay too -- except the guy with the beard carving. I found that inauspicious.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 4 April 2005 18:23 (twenty years ago)

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