Should I Get An MMR Jab?

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So, I work at one university and study part-time at another, both of which have recently had mumps 'scares'. Letters have gone round suggesting that people between 17 and 25 might be at risk and should get vaccinated. I am just outside the upper age limit, but the GP at work said it might still be a good idea. She didn't REALLY push it, though. And hence I'm not sure, since I am broadly anti-vaccine (and haven't had any jabs since rubella age 11).

Oh the other hand I don't want to put myself or others in danger, and should probably just follow the 'official' advice...? At this point I can hardly get my head round all the arguments and counter-arguments about MMR's safety any more. Everyone has an agenda.

Archel (Archel), Monday, 4 April 2005 15:29 (twenty-one years ago)

What are your thoughts, oh agenda-free, well-informed (haha) minds of ILX?

Archel (Archel), Monday, 4 April 2005 15:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Has anyone here actually HAD an MMR vaccination? Are you autistic? Is your immune system broken?

Archel (Archel), Monday, 4 April 2005 15:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I had MMR as a child. As I understand it:
There is no evidence which suggests MMR leads to autism beyond 'post hoc ergo propter hoc'. No peer-reviewed seriously-taken articles have been in any respected journals showing a link.
It is believed, though I don't know the evidence to support this tbh, that autism has risen recently because healthcare professionals are getting better at diagnosing autistic-spectrum disorders.
Rubella is damaging, especially if you're female and plan to have children some time.
Even if the link between MMR and autism were true, children would have a higher chance of getting measles, mumps or rubella without the vaccine than of getting autism with it.

beanz (beanz), Monday, 4 April 2005 15:47 (twenty-one years ago)

That's what I understand too, I guess. But is it so bad having measles, or mumps, or german measles when you're young? I had all of them as a child I think (though my doc says maybe the mumps wasn't really mumps). I don't want them as an adult, obviously. But I don't want a vaccine when the risk is small, either.

Clearly ILE cannot answer this for me though...

Archel (Archel), Monday, 4 April 2005 15:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I just had the two shots in February and March. No problem at all. Didn't feel any after effects whatsoever.

I am a (nearly?) middle-aged student but still subject to the requirement to show proof of immunization. If I didn't get MMR series, they'd hold my transcript and deny me registration for next semester. I called my moms and asked her if she had my proof of innoculation and she was--"What are you nuts!? I don't have your shot records. How's my grandson?"

All of us old folks grumbled, but my friend Marlys--she got the reaction about a week after the shot (I'm not sure if it was the first or second). She said she felt perfectly fine, but of course she was covered, REALLY covered, in little red spots. It took a couple of weeks to clear up.

Good luck--

Hunter (Hunter), Monday, 4 April 2005 15:53 (twenty-one years ago)

If you've already had them, you don't need the vaccine I think.

A few years after I had the MMR I got measles and mumps, though happily not at the same time. So I guess I shouldn't really talk from personal experience cos I clearly got a jab from a dud batch. Measles was rough but mumps I remember as being not so bad.

beanz (beanz), Monday, 4 April 2005 16:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I had it before traveling to somewhere obscure. No ill effects.

Ed (dali), Monday, 4 April 2005 16:14 (twenty-one years ago)

but ed! your hair!

mark s (mark s), Monday, 4 April 2005 16:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, have it. It is perfectly safe.

Cathy (Cathy), Monday, 4 April 2005 17:16 (twenty-one years ago)

i read something the other day about how the WHO (not the band) sez rubella's basically non-existant now.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 4 April 2005 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I had both my children immunised with the MMR vaccine when they were tiny (and it wasn't an easy decision to make, but on balance I decided to go with it). They were both fine after it, suffered no ill-effect and no reactions.

I would not have the MMR jab for myself, even if I worked in an environment where there were lots of younger people who might possibly be coughing the mumps, measles or rubella virus all over me. The only one which should concern you is the rubella one, as catching that when (at some point in the future) you might be pregnant can be harmful to your unborn baby. However, it is possible for the doctors to check yout rubella-immune status with a simple blood test - so I'd recommend you see whether you actually need the immunisation for that first. You can be immunised against rubella separately, and not have the combined MMR jab, if you make enough fuss about asking for it.

Mumps would be unpleasant to catch, but it's not that awful, is it? Mumps is a problem for boys, as it can impair fertility. Have all the men in your life had mumps as little kids and got it over-and-done-with? I don't think it's something you can catch twice in a lifetime.

C J (C J), Monday, 4 April 2005 17:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Jeez, I must be naive. I didn't realize that people didn't get the shot. Or that there was an outstanding risk factor. I guess I always assumed that it was a mandatory kinda thing.

Girolamo Savonarola, Monday, 4 April 2005 23:59 (twenty-one years ago)

If you have had measles, rubella, mumps or chickenpox as a child you won't catch it again, so I cant see the neccesity of a vaccine.

I didnt know peopel did shots - what happened to chickenpox parties as a kid? Didnt everyone go thru these nasties on purpose to get resistance? I know I did.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 00:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Mumps is nothing, anyway - fat face, sore jaw/throat a la tonsillitis, bit of fever.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 00:15 (twenty-one years ago)

And I know for sure Im now chickenpox resistant as my b/f when I was 21 got it somehow, and he was sick as, and I didnt get sick at all even tho I was right next to him.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 00:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought these shots were mandatory when entering grade school.

tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 00:39 (twenty-one years ago)

One of my co-workers recently got chicken pox...and he's 40-something. I've heard that it's much worse as an adult...plus it opens up the possibility of getting shingles later. Hasn't there been a vaccine for like ten years now? Seems to me that the obvious thing to do if you hadn't gotten it as an adult would be to get that one ASAP. Especially if you have two kids, like he did.

Girolamo Savonarola, Tuesday, 5 April 2005 04:02 (twenty-one years ago)

you can get shingles later, yeah.

i thot this thread originally read "Should I Get An MRR Job?" and I was gonna write "YEAH MAXIMUM ROCK N' ROLL PUNK ROCK FANZINE DUDER!"

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 04:16 (twenty-one years ago)

You would ;P

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 04:25 (twenty-one years ago)

But seriously yes - adult onset pox/measles v bad. Risk of shingles, blindness and encephalitis!!!

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 04:26 (twenty-one years ago)

i read something the other day about how the WHO (not the band) sez rubella's basically non-existant now.

it is no longer found in the US, but shots are still recommended here

gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 04:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I've had the jab a few times - when i was tiny, then the MR top-up jab in school, and then a few months back when mumps started going round my uni. no ill effects, etc.

a mate of mine got mumps recently and it was horrible, so I recommend getting the jab done.

lundy fastnet irish sea (cis), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 04:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Is rubella now classed as non-existant in the UK too? It was definitely very common when I was small; I remember having it when I was about 5 or 6, and worrying about going near one of my mum's friends because she was pregnant at the time.

caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 06:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm way more worried about rubella than mumps, in general. And since I had a rubella jab, maybe I'm ok. I like CJ's idea of getting a test to check my rubella-immune status.

(Trayce: I remember my parents having 'measles parties' and stuff but they were middle-class hippies after all... It doesn't seem very common now though, and I think I would have my kids get the MMR, on balance.)

Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 07:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Measles parties sound like a good idea to everyone except social services.

beanz (beanz), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 08:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I guess I would worry about kids who hadn't been to a disease party OR had MMR yet. They would be kind of at risk at school/nursery, wouldn't they? I've seen some parents get pretty angry with non-MMR parents, anyway.

Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 08:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd get angry with non-MMR parents if I had kids.

RickyT (RickyT), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 08:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Likewise. Funny, I expected some anti-MMR voices here too...

beanz (beanz), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 08:21 (twenty-one years ago)

yes, i'm with ricky on this one. archel/trayce, but what if you do get teh mumps agane and then give it to a male friend who then goes all non-fertile, that wouldn't be very good now would it...

CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 08:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Is there a way to test my mumps immunity without having teh MMR, though? Like for rubella? Perhaps I will badger my doctor.

Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 08:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Why are you worried about having the MMR in the first place?

RickyT (RickyT), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 08:29 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe we shd have a measlesFAP?

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 08:43 (twenty-one years ago)

(because she's an hippy ;) only kidding petal :))

CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 08:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Heh. I don't know why I'm worried really, except that I would worry about ANY - possibly unnecessary - messing with my body's natural defences. In other words, I'm a hippy.

Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 08:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I think, though I could be wrong, that the MMR is just exposing you to the viruses in a controlled way so your body's immune system gets used to them. It's not like a drug. Is that true of all three bits?

beanz (beanz), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 09:03 (twenty-one years ago)

CholeraFAP at the John Snow!

Archel, you're not messing with the defences, you're adding to them. As a grown up, the chances of any negative side-effects to you are negligible. However, if you've had all these diseases already, I can't see why you'd need the jab. (xpost)

(I have never had measles, though I managed the others, including german measles aged 15, which was the gayest disease ever - I didn't even feel ill. Should I do something about this?)

Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 09:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Apparently the UK is due a plague epidemic any time now.

beanz (beanz), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 09:11 (twenty-one years ago)

About not having measles or about german measles being gay Mark? I shouldn't think you're risk from measles now.

And yeah I know that, logically, about vaccines. But I still don't really *understand*.

Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 09:14 (twenty-one years ago)

"German measles" sounds like it should be particularly harsh but "Rubella" sounds like a wild flower. "Mumps" sounds like a armpit fart. "Measles" sounds like sneezes with extra spite.

beanz (beanz), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 09:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Rubella is largely non-existent due to hurd-immunity from mass immunisation programmes.

Ed (dali), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 09:22 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.findoutabout.co.uk/images/lordhurd.jpg

beanz (beanz), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 09:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Arrgh!

Also, I think there's a place called Mumps isn't there?

Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 09:29 (twenty-one years ago)

all of these are
i. relics of very dangerous epidemics from the dawn of human history
ii. crossover diseases from contact with farm animals!!

(we first caught the common cold from horses!)

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 09:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Bloody horses! It's those big nostrils isn't it.

Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 09:32 (twenty-one years ago)

also they never use hankies

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 09:34 (twenty-one years ago)

A freind of mind who is an immunologist worked on the court case re the MMR - autism thing and she was getting very, very angry by the end of it that she had wasted so much of her time on something as unsubstantiated and rubbidge. I am a natural carrier of diseases and have not had any of the MMR's so would actually be actively keen on having this vaccine - though its never been offered.

Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 09:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I suppose a childhood spent riding horses=a lifetime of hypochondira in my case.

I have never had chickenpox. I moved around so often when I was a kid that I never knew anyone who had it. The UK apparently doesn't vaccinate for it...

I have had the MMR, no lasting effects on me yet proved besides what it was intended for.

sgs (sgs), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 09:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Since you work with students Pete and there's a student mumps 'epidemic' in the South East, I expect a doctor would happily give you MMR.

Where did this MMR controversy come from, anyway? Since there seems to have never been much evidence that it's Evil. Are lots of people just gullible hippies like me?

Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 09:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah, Oldham Mumps. That was it.

Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 09:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, a few kids started exhibiting symptoms of autism not long after the MMR jab. So some folks put 2 and 2 together and made 321423424542.

RickyT (RickyT), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 09:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Plus, that bowel specialist chap claimed he could find fragments of measles virus in the bowels of autistic children who had received MMR.

Private Eye still supports the MMR-causes-autism theory - every time yet another survey disputes it, they run a "yes but really this wasn't the right sort of survey and they've interpreted it wrong so really it backs up what we're saying" piece.

The other railway station in Oldham - the one that isn't called Oldham Mumps - is Oldham Werneth.

caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 10:33 (twenty-one years ago)

i think their theory would be "in certain specific - = genetically determined cases? - autism may be induced by a bowel inflammation caused by MMR"

no one claims that all autism - or even the autism spike - is caused by MMR

(the spike remains unexplained)

wakefield is fairly clearly a dick, though the campaign of vilification at the outset wz a REALLY bad strategy - many ppl distrust feisty independent doctors less than they distrust doctician-spokesmen for the govt, strangely enough

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 10:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sure I read recently that autism was only first formally described by doctors around 60 years ago, and that it always seems to be partially genetically determined in any case.

(this was in An Anthropologist On Mars by Oliver Sacks)

caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 10:47 (twenty-one years ago)

that sounds plausible caitlin

the "anti-MMR" argt currently seems to be that a small minority within those disposed to autism have this disposition "switched on" after a particular type of bowel inflammation, which MAY be connected to measles in the context of MMR

the prob being i think (this is all from memory) that the numbers being talked about are so small that all studies so far render interpretation statistically questionable

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 10:54 (twenty-one years ago)

On the subject of autism, it's interesting to speculate how many historical savants (George Parker Bidder, for example) would have been diagnosed as autistic (or with Asperger's syndrome) if they had been around today.

(I don't think Bidder was, but I could be wrong)

caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 10:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Yep, that is pretty much it Mark, with the added caveat that if the tiny statistical spike is measles related it would
a) be turned on by the measles vaccine too
b) be turned on by measles - as might be a measles epidemic + death.

The whole Doc Wakefield controversy is a direct upshot of what happens when a researcher gets bored by the academic process (easily done) and chats to his mate in the media down the pub after a few beers. Though he is a knob, the academic community often forget what their spats look like outside the rarified atmosphere of acadaemia (ie they look like out and out WAR).

Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 11:04 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.anecdotage.com/pics/spats.gif

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 11:07 (twenty-one years ago)

According to Wikipedia, take-up of the MMR vaccine in the UK fell to 84% in 2002 and is around 60% in parts of London (which parts? The river?). There goes yr Heseltine immunity.

Is MMR given in the US any more? Lots of (perhaps spurious) court cases in the '70s and '80s = increased cost.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 11:14 (twenty-one years ago)

the private eye MMR thing really hacks me off. i love their usual championing the underdogs thing, but this is just crap.

i obv have doublestandards regarding this sort of thing because i wuv private eye so haven't stopped reading, yet if i see anyone reading the sunday times, all i can think off is all that shit they published about HIV not being the cause of AIDS.

Jaunty Alan (Alan), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 11:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Spats - HUH - GOOD GOD Y'ALL - what are they good for?

Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 11:18 (twenty-one years ago)

They make good cream horns.

Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 11:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I also have double vision standards when it comes to Private Eye, because I can violently disagree with their 'library news' columns (that being the only area I have any knowledge of) while tutting along in happy ignoronce at all the other horror exposés etc.

Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 11:26 (twenty-one years ago)


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