question about trials

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Here's a question that I should've learned the answer to before turning in a paper in which it matters, now I'm just wondering out of curiosity. Say somebody is accused of killing somebody else. If they don't plead guilty, according to my class readings, you've got two phases of the trial, one for determining guilt and one for sentencing. At what point do you decide whether to charge the person with first or second degree murder or manslaughter? Is that before you even take them to trial, or does the jury get to decide which category the crime fits?

― Maria (Maria), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 16:31 (twenty years ago)

Surely that is up to the prosecutor, and isn't a grand jury arraignment used in the states to present this to the court pre-trial?

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 16:39 (twenty years ago)

In the UK it is purely up to the Crown prosecution service to decide what charges to put before the court

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 16:40 (twenty years ago)

The jury doesn't decide what the person is charged with/convicted of... The prosecutor determines what charge the person is on trial for (ie for what are they likely to get a conviction) and the jury decides whether or not the prosecution proved their case.

― dave225 (Dave225), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 16:40 (twenty years ago)

There are ACTUALLY three phases of trials. The first is either a preliminary hearing or a grand jury. Then comes the jury trial itself. Finally comes the sentencing.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 16:44 (twenty years ago)

The charge they're tried on is determined by the District Attorney's office (if it's a state crime, as opposed to federal) before the trial. They'll make a determination of what's most appropriate/what they can win, and might make a deal with the accused to plead guilty to a lesser crime instead of trial. I think there are situations where a person is on trial for one level of offense (say, 1st Degree murder) and the jury has the power to convict of a lesser level (2nd degree or manslaughter). I'm pretty sure that ability would vary from state to state.

― Curious George (1/6 Scale Model) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 16:45 (twenty years ago)

And it all takes a lot longer than one would think after watching David Kelley tv shows.

― Curious George (1/6 Scale Model) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 16:46 (twenty years ago)

The prosecutor decides what charges will be brought, EXCEPT in cases where a grand jury is involved (in those cases the grand jury actually decides what charges will be brought._ In cases where the death is open to possible interpretation, some prosecutors give the jury the option of first and second degree murder and then let them decide whether the crime meets the threshhold or not.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 16:47 (twenty years ago)

In my fantasy where I have nine lives, I'm a lawyer in two of them.

― Curious George (1/6 Scale Model) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 16:49 (twenty years ago)

Actually William may be right and reducing the charge to second degree murder is always an option for a jury faced with a first-degree murder charge.

A lot of times prosecutors charge murders as first-degree to give them more wiggle room for negotiation as well.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 16:50 (twenty years ago)

(I remember Nina Totenberg or someone else on NPR saying that our (that is, general public) perception of courtroom procedure comes largely from film and television, which I thought was pretty interesting.)

― youn, Tuesday, 5 April 2005 16:50 (twenty years ago)

Yes and it's true. The legal system works MUCH slower IRL than either Perry Mason or L&O would have you believe.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 16:52 (twenty years ago)

I've got it bad for Nina Totenberg.

― Curious George (1/6 Scale Model) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 16:52 (twenty years ago)

"Judge Scalia: Yes, but ......
Judge OConnor: But isn't ...."

Nina Totenberg, yeah....

― dave225 (Dave225), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 16:54 (twenty years ago)

Actually William may be right and reducing the charge to second degree murder is always an option for a jury faced with a first-degree murder charge.

I dunno if that's true, but it would make sense that DAs would present juries with the option because otherwise it's "death penalty or the guy walks."

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 16:58 (twenty years ago)

In the UK it is purely up to the Crown prosecution service to decide what charges to put before the court

I think you mean "In England and Wales". I'm not sure about Northern Ireland, but the CPS definitely doesn't have anything to do with Scotland (where prosecution is carried out by the local Procurator Fiscal's office)

― caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 18:19 (twenty years ago)

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