By VALERIE M. RUSSrussv@phillynews.com
RHASAAN NICHOLS was 7 years old when his mother started taking him to the Cecil B. Moore Branch of the Free Library to get books for homework assignments.
It is one of 20 Free Library branches threatened by budget cuts.
His mother, Shivaughan Dandy, could walk around the corner to the library with Rhasaan and his two younger sisters, Aliyha, then 4, and Chenee, who was 5 and uses a wheelchair because she has cerebral palsy.
On their walks to the library, on Cecil B. Moore Avenue at 23rd Street, they passed boarded-up abandoned buildings and trash-strewn sidewalks.
DN GRAPHIC: LIBRARIES SLATED FOR CUTS It is a neighborhood that Shivaughan Dandy describes to this day as a "Little Bosnia," because of the violence and gunfire that is prevalent.
"It's very drug infested, " Dandy said of the area of 20th Street and Montgomery Avenue, where she has lived for just under three years. "It's one of the hottest drug corners in the city."
When her children were smaller, the family lived on nearby Gratz Street, near 19th and Oxford.
While Dandy was happy to get to her new house because it is equipped with a handicapped-accessible bathroom and two bedrooms on the first floor, Dandy said she sometimes feels like, "I've got the right house in the wrong neighborhood."
For there's one fear she has about having first-floor bedrooms for herself and Chenee.
"When I hear gunshots, I hope they don't come through the window. And I pray that if they do come in, let them hit me. Don't let them hit her."
As her children grew up, Dandy was able to steer them away from the troubles in the neighborhood.
Her eldest, Sulaiman, 26, attended military school and graduated from the University of Pittsburgh. He's now in graduate school at Bryn Mawr College.
Her second son, Rhasaan, 18, who spent nearly every day of his last two years of high school studying and volunteering at the Cecil B. Moore library branch, is now a freshman at Yale University.
Chenee, 16, takes classes for the handicapped at William Penn High School and Aliyha, 15, is an honor roll student at Edison High.
While Dandy is proud of all of her children, she is especially proud of Rhasaan who won an academic scholarship to Yale and hopes to become a pediatric surgeon someday.
"It's all about Chenee," he said. "I have to become a doctor. Even if I can't help Chenee, but for other kids like her who can't walk.
"I'm an able-bodied person, I'm intelligent. I have a responsibility to use my gifts to help others. That's my motivation. When I don't want to get out of bed in the mornings, I tell myself I've got to push on. I'll do anything for my sister."
Dandy said all his life, she urged Rhasaan, always a good student, to work hard and get out of a neighborhood that "looks like a bomb went off," as a friend recently described it.
"I'm not offended," Rhasaan said. "It's the truth."
There may be trash spilling out from abandoned buildings next door and a boarded-up building across the street, but once inside the Cecil B. Moore branch, visitors will find a clean, inviting library.
There's a large, colorful mural on the wall in the children's section with portraits of Cecil B. Moore, Martin Luther King, Jr. and pictures of neighborhood children who spent their growing up years at the branch.
"A library in a neighborhood like this is an oasis and a safe haven," Audrey Roll, the branch supervisor at Moore said.
But the Moore branch is one of 20 branches Free Library officials say must have cutbacks in services because of budget cuts.
The cutbacks mean that the two certified librarians at Moore - and at other branches slated to become "express" branches - will be moved to full-service libraries. Also, the hours at the limited-service branches will be cut from 10 a.m. to as late as 8 p.m. a couple of days a week to 1 p.m. to 5 p.m. Mondays through Saturdays.
City officials say the budget cuts at least keep the library branches open in the neighborhoods and they say library assistants, who generally have a high school or GED equivalent diploma, will get special training to help answer library patrons' research questions.
But Cathy Scott, the president of the union representing librarians said all of the express branches are slated for poor, minority or working-class neighborhoods.
"You won't find any cuts in library services in Chestnut Hill or Mount Airy," Scott said.
Last week, City Councilman Frank DiCicco introduced a bill to rescind $30 million Council approved in December to pay for the expansion of the Free Library's Central Branch. He said library officials had promised that the expansion would not hurt the neighborhood branches.
And on Friday, Common Pleas Judge Matthew D. Carrafiello is expected to rule on the librarians' request for a temporary injunction to stop more cutbacks. Ten branches have already had services reduced. Ten more are slated to lose librarians and have hours cut.
Audrey Roll used to host about a half-dozen preschool classes in her branch each day starting at 10 a.m. She also conducts library sessions for six to nine school-age groups starting from 12 to 3 p.m. There are 14 public, private or parochial schools that the library serves, she said.
But since the Free Library announced that Moore would become an "express branch" Roll contacted the preschool teachers and asked them to find alternatives to her morning story hours.
"I had to," she said. "I notified my groups and told them that I wouldn't be able to continue and to make other arrangements."
Roll, who is children's librarian as well as supervisor, said she and the other Moore librarian,Darren T. Cottman, do not yet know when or where they will be reassigned.
Still on a recent Wednesday morning, a group of 10 children and their teacher dropped by for an impromptu visit from Al Moshe Shule, a private school nearby. About four children immediately swarmed around a computer in the children's section, while the others picked up books from the shelves, and sat quietly looking at them.
Their teacher said it wasn't a planned visit.
"We were just out for a walk and decided to come in," said the teacher, Ms. Davidson. (She declined to give her first name.)
On the other side of the library, there were 10 to 12 adults using computers or reading books while the Daily News visited for about an hour.
Kenneth Thompson, 25, was trying to find information that would help him pass his drivers' license test.
After getting on the Pennsylvania government Web site, Thompson couldn't find the link he was looking for. A library assistant came over to help. But Thompson was still having trouble. Finally, Cottman, Moore's librarian for teens and adults, came over to help.
Thompson found a link that helps with the test-taking skills he needed.
The nearest branch, the Widener Branch at 28th and Lehigh is two miles away. But for city dwellers, many without cars, two miles is much more than a distance.
"Philadelphia is very much a city of neighborhoods, Scott said. "And no matter what your neighborhood is like, people want to be able to go to a library where they live. They don't feel as comfortable in another neighborhood."
Rhasaan Nichols started volunteering at the Moore branch the summer before his junior year at the Bodine High School for International Affairs. While he helped younger students, he said he always got help with his own work from librarian Audrey Roll.
"She helped me with a lot of my school work," Nichols said. "You can ask her just about anything and she can get you started. She's well-versed in a lot of things.
"If there's no librarian, there's no structure to the library. It's just an open space that circulates books. It has no spirit. It's just a building. With a librarian, it's like a family."
Reached at his dormitory at Yale, Nichols said he can't believe that library officials plan to remove certified librarians like Roll and Cottman from neighborhood branches.
"It's not like the city tried to give us anything anyway. Now they're trying to take something away. They're kicking us while we're down.
"The library is like a little glimmer of hope," in his neighborhood, Rhasaan said.
― RS £aRue (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 18:05 (twenty years ago)
In Steinbeck's Birthplace, a Fight to Keep the Libraries Open by Carolyn Marshall SALINAS, CA -- The reputation of this farming community, known as the Salad Bowl of the World, has been burnished by giants of American history like the civil rights leader Cesar Chavez, who organized the area's farmworkers, and John Steinbeck, a native son who borrowed images from the landscape and Depression-era residents in writing "The Grapes of Wrath."
The pride, fear and hope Steinbeck described were in evidence this weekend as residents, celebrities and best-selling authors gathered for a 24-hour emergency read-in to try to avert an unwelcome footnote to Salinas's legacy: the impending closing of the city's three public libraries.
Unless the city can raise $500,000 by June 30, the John Steinbeck, Cesar Chavez and El Gabilan Libraries will be shuttered, victims of the city's $9 million budget shortfall. If the branches are closed, Salinas will become the nation's largest city without a public library.
The read-in, organized by groups including Code Pink and the Salinas Action League, began Saturday afternoon and included a pitched-tent sleepover on the lawn of the Chavez library and readings by authors including Anne Lamott and Maxine Hong Kingston.
The actor Hector Elizondo, known for his work in the television drama "Chicago Hope," told supporters on Saturday that public libraries had been instrumental to his personal development and safety as a boy growing up in Harlem. Mr. Elizondo said that closing a library was "like putting a tourniquet around your mind."
"There were three sanctuaries - first was the subway, second the church and third was the library," he said. "It was a place where you could be creatively subversive, and it changed my life because through books, I started to question."
Alisa Valdes-Rodriguez, author of "The Dirty Girls Social Club," said her Cuban father learned English at the public library in Albuquerque. "We didn't come from money," she said. "Words were our only capital."
Word of the library closings has spread in recent months. The American Library Association sent a delegation to Salinas in February to meet with local and state officials. The mayor helped to organize Rally Salinas, a fund-raising group, and residents formed Save Salinas Libraries to explore a ballot measure. Last week, residents drafted a petition to Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger requesting long-term help in saving the libraries, because the $500,000 would only ensure that each library stays open one day a week through 2005.
The poignancy of library closings occurring in Steinbeck's birthplace has elevated the Salinas problem. But according to the American Library Association, branches across the nation have been forced to reduce hours, eliminate staff and thin inventories. Library services have been cut in Lancaster, Pa.; Onondaga County, N.Y.; and Detroit. The library in Bedford, Tex., closed its doors last Wednesday and will remain closed for at least six months.
Maria Roddy, the manager at the Cesar Chavez Library, said the Salinas libraries have been in trouble for the past three years, a tough situation for a community where 16 percent of the population lives below the poverty line. As in many poorer communities, Ms. Roddy said, the library serves as a public commons for children whose parents work.
Sommer Brooke, 11, a sixth grader who spoke at the read-in, questioned how Salinas could close libraries in one breath and ask schools to raise reading test scores in the next.
"It is like feeding someone but giving them no food," she said, "teaching children to read but cutting off their access."
City officials said the closings were forced in part by the defeat of several tax measures on the ballot in November. But some conceded that two measures failed because they did not specifically discuss how the libraries would have been affected.
Sergio Sanchez, a city councilman who voted to keep the libraries open, said that even if the state decides to help Salinas, the community must remain involved.
"We as citizens have to step up," he said. "There is no one else to help us."
Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company
― RS £aRue (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 18:08 (twenty years ago)
Wednesday, April 6, 2005 City Council Wonders Where $1 Million for Libraries Wentby KYW's Mike Dunn
Philadelphia city councilmembers are demanding that library officials explain why $1 million set aside for library branches last year never made it there.
The head of of the Free Library of Philadelphia was in the hotseat as angry City Council members questioned him on the plan to reduce hours and staff at 20 neighborhood branches.
Councilmembers are mainly upset with Mayor Street’s plan to slash weekday morning hours at 20 branches and to lay off some librarians.
And at the hearing, councilmembers also focused on why $1 million that was added to the library budget by Council last year was never given to the branches.
Council president Anna Verna asked library president Elliott Shelkrott to explain:
(Verna:) "Where’s the million dollars? We approved a million dollars last year simply to keep the libraries open on Saturday."
(Shelkrott:) "It is my understanding that the million dollars did not… it … it… I cannot answer that."
Councilman Michael Nutter lost his temper:
"You can’t remember who told you that you don’t get a new million dollars from this city council unless you raise an additional million? Which you have never done in history? And you can’t remember who told you that? Is that what you’re saying?"
The mayor’s budget director later admitted that Street withheld the million unless the library increased fine collections by the same amount.
― RS £aRue (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 18:20 (twenty years ago)
Library board gets in touch with biometric access
X Public Library is considering the implementation of a new login system that uses biometric technology to determine if the person accessing the computer is a valid user. The biometric software would involve the use of a fingerprint scanner to determine if the person sitting at the workstation has signed a user agreement.
The cost to implement the technology at the 130 workstations at the three library buildings is $32,150. The funds would come from the library's capital reserve fund.
Biometric technology is being used in places such as banks, member organizations and in the medical industry. At the library, the system would involve making a fingerprint scan of each person registered for Internet use. Patrons would place an index finger on the scanner and the print would be converted into a unique set of numbers based on a complex algorithm. The algorithm would not be able to be converted back into a fingerprint.
After a fingerprint scan is captured on a reader, the software finds important points of interest in the fingerprint - also known as minutia points. Those minutia points are calculated into vectors using a unique formula. The original fingerprint image is deleted, and the vectors are kept and turned into numbers. Those numbers are then stored in the login system's database.
During the login process, the user would place an index finger on the scanner, which is smaller than an iPod mini. The scan would again be converted into a set of numbers and matched with those of the registered user in the database. When the match is made, the person continues to use the workstation. The failure rate is less than one in a million.
The library already uses several methods to ensure those who are using the computers have signed a user agreement. Patrons authorized to use the Internet have a special sticker on their cards, and those cards must be displayed at the workstation while a patron is using one of the library computers. In addition, login-authorization software has been added that requires the user to enter a library card and personal identification number. But some patrons are borrowing cards belonging to family members or friends.
Trustee Chad XYZ asked if the technology could be adapted to eliminate the need for library cards.
"If this is successful, I think when we get our next generation computer system, it is entirely possible we could expand the use of biometric technology," said PDQ, deputy director of the library. "The next logical step once we had perfected the technology with computer access is to extend it to circulation."
― Shatterproof Glass (dymaxia), Thursday, 21 April 2005 14:23 (twenty years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 21 April 2005 14:24 (twenty years ago)
I can pretty much guarantee that it will be technically, and probably even legally, possible for the FBI to get to the conjunction of who (exactly) visited what sites. (As it is, a certain library which will remain nameless has turned over lists of who used public internet PCs to investigators--the FBI, I think--ostensibly on the basis of a fraud probe. This started not long after 9/11. I don't know whether it's continued.)
― RS_LaRue (RSLaRue), Thursday, 21 April 2005 15:17 (twenty years ago)
― -rainbow bum- (-rainbow bum-), Thursday, 21 April 2005 16:01 (twenty years ago)
― Shatterproof Glass (dymaxia), Thursday, 21 April 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)
― Shatterproof Glass (dymaxia), Thursday, 21 April 2005 20:21 (twenty years ago)
Posted on Thu, Apr. 28, 2005
'Deceived' Council hits library bondsVotes to zap $30M expansion pledgeBy VALERIE M. RUSSrussv@phillynews.com
City Council took steps yesterday to strip away the $30 million it had agreed to spend to help fund a major $120 million renovation of the Free Library's Central Branch.
By an 8-2 vote, Council, acting as the Committee of the Whole, voted to rescind the bond ordinance introduced by Councilman Frank DiCicco.
The bill must be passed by the entire Council to become law.
After the vote, Elliot L. Shel-krot, Free Library president and director, had no comment.
But Mayor Street said, "I think the library funding will stand and the capital improvements will stand, and I think we'll work it out."
Council members said if they had known in December when they agreed to spend the $30 million that the Free Library would in January reduce hours and remove professional librarians at 20 neighborhood branches, they wouldn't have approved the bond issue.
"We were deceived," Councilman Michael Nutter said after the vote.
The cutbacks in branch-library services sparked outcries in the neighborhoods, and Council members made it known that they were trying to speak for their constituents.
In a sometimes-contentious hearing that lasted nearly four hours, several Council members said they agreed that the Central Library should be renovated but that they wanted full service restored to the branches.
"Why should the Free Library be serving lattes to Center City residents when they are not giving basic services to the people in the neighborhoods?" DiCicco asked.
Several members pointed to a $30 million Pennsylvania Intergovermental Cooperation Authority (PICA) fund set aside for emergencies and said that money could be used to renovate the Central Library. They also questioned whether some of the $24 million in Act 71 funds, now budgeted to pay for a new juvenile justice building, would better be spent on libraries than prisons.
Council members also lambasted Shelkrot, who at a budget hearing on April 6 said it would take $1.5 million to return the "express branches" to normal hours.
Yesterday, he said the city would have to add nearly $450,000 to that $1.5 million once the library took into consideration the cost of employee benefits.
That bit of information caused Nutter to chastise Shelkrot angrily for not having that information two weeks ago.
The proposed expansion to the Central Library would include renovating the building on Vine Street and providing a 160,000- square-foot addition just north of the main library, facing Callowhill Street.
DiCicco and other Council members said that the $3.5 million it would take in annual debt service could be used to keep 20 neighborhood branches open full-time and keep professional librarians in them.
They also said that at the end of the 30 years, the city would have spent $52 million including interest payments to borrow $30 million.
"That just doesn't make sense," Councilman James Kenney said. "The mayor leaves office in 2008, but that debt will be around for generations."
Voting to pass the ordinance rescinding the $30 million were Council President Anna C. Verna, DiCicco, Brian O'Neill, Jack Kelly, Michael Nutter, Marian Tasco, David Cohen and James Kinney.
Voting against were Darrell Clarke and Juan F. Ramos. (Ramos wasn't present for the vote but had announced his intention to vote no earlier in the day.)
― RS_LaRue (RSLaRue), Thursday, 28 April 2005 10:50 (twenty years ago)
― RS, Thursday, 28 April 2005 14:11 (twenty years ago)
Errrr...... is this for real???!?
All Free Library of Philadelphia Customers,We deeply regret to inform you that without the necessary budgetary legislation by the State Legislature in Harrisburg, the City of Philadelphia will not have the funds to operate our neighborhood branch libraries, regional libraries, or the Parkway Central Library after October 2, 2009.
― Fetchboy, Monday, 14 September 2009 20:19 (sixteen years ago)
It is.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 14 September 2009 20:24 (sixteen years ago)
not a public library but: http://www.boston.com/news/education/k_12/articles/2009/09/04/a_library_without_the_books/
― congratulations (n/a), Monday, 14 September 2009 20:26 (sixteen years ago)
with a great pic:http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2009/09/03/1252032763_1917/539w.jpg
Not everyone on campus is sold on Tracy’s vision.They worry about an environment where students can no longer browse rows of voluptuous books, replete with glossy photographs, intricate maps, and pages dog-eared by generations of students.
They worry about an environment where students can no longer browse rows of voluptuous books, replete with glossy photographs, intricate maps, and pages dog-eared by generations of students.
Oh the visions.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 14 September 2009 20:28 (sixteen years ago)
jeez that's depressing
Instead of a library, the academy is spending nearly $500,000 to create a “learning center,’’ though that is only one of the names in contention for the new space. In place of the stacks, they are spending $42,000 on three large flat-screen TVs that will project data from the Internet and $20,000 on special laptop-friendly study carrels. Where the reference desk was, they are building a $50,000 coffee shop that will include a $12,000 cappuccino machine.
― Mr. Que, Monday, 14 September 2009 20:29 (sixteen years ago)
voluptuous $pending
― velko, Monday, 14 September 2009 20:32 (sixteen years ago)
Re: the Philly thing, is this more a political move/fuck you to the state, or does it seem like the libraries will actually close down for a long period of time???
― dr. johnson (askance johnson), Monday, 14 September 2009 20:37 (sixteen years ago)
i'd have to guess the former, based on no real knowledge
― congratulations (n/a), Monday, 14 September 2009 20:40 (sixteen years ago)
Ugh this is really really stupid
― ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Monday, 14 September 2009 20:44 (sixteen years ago)
― dr. johnson (askance johnson), Monday, September 14, 2009 3:37 PM (28 minutes ago) Bookmark
i don't know either. but my guess is that it's a political move - the state legislature prob didn't include much for libraries in the budget so the libraries are getting the public riled up. good for them - they must be some serious budget cuts for the library system to threaten to close completely.
― mark cl, Monday, 14 September 2009 21:07 (sixteen years ago)
btw we were talking about the cushing academy's book-free library the other night in my first class of library school. my professor said he bets 'his life' that there will be no more books relatively soon. tho 'relatively soon' could mean many things
― mark cl, Monday, 14 September 2009 21:09 (sixteen years ago)
so could "no more books"
― congratulations (n/a), Monday, 14 September 2009 21:10 (sixteen years ago)
i don't see it, yet. . . the technology is just not there. (yet)
― Mr. Que, Monday, 14 September 2009 21:14 (sixteen years ago)
Libraries are moving to become more like social centers and less like book repositories, but they seem to be adopting this paradigm on scholarly or market research, and not on actual user requests. It's like, give them what they want, even though they don't know that they want it yet.
― Virginia Plain, Tuesday, 15 September 2009 14:45 (sixteen years ago)
About academic libraries: I do heavily textual work and so do most of the people in my area, but I've been struck in the last six months how many of these people (most in their 50s + 60s) have realized that they can do without physical books to do their work, and that doing improves their productivity. Old books are readily available online already, and our libraries happily scan what we can't find freely. And it's standard now to share our new articles and even new books electronically, without intermediaries at all. Now this is just academic usage, but I wonder about the role of libraries now. Things are changing so quickly: like, I have 10 gigs of pdfs now that represent pretty much everything I've needed to do my work recently, and conferences involve seriously promiscuous sharing, so my collection is growing rapidly, as are my colleagues. In this, libraries are just scanners.
This obviously says nothing about non-academic libraries.
― wacky spelling error (Euler), Tuesday, 15 September 2009 14:56 (sixteen years ago)
it doesn't say much about academic libraries either, unless you're advocating destroying all the books after they're converted into PDFs
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 15 September 2009 15:04 (sixteen years ago)
I do heavily textual work and so do most of the people in my area, but I've been struck in the last six months how many of these people (most in their 50s + 60s) have realized that they can do without physical books to do their work, and that doing improves their productivity.
I've been wondering how this change will play out at my workplace as well -- I think a combination of newer generations of professors who are already completely immersed in the Net to start with combined with larger institutional drives and plans will see this focus grow stronger. I'm especially intrigued to see how it plays out with reserves, given that's what I work with -- I suspect we've reached and already passed peak e-reserves use through the library, almost certainly because more instructors are linking to resources directly through their own webpages. There's still a slew of physical books on reserve at any one time though I think a combination of factors will be changing that as well, and in reasonably swift time.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 15 September 2009 15:04 (sixteen years ago)
I know that pdf's are the way forward but I hope books don't go away altogether--I prefer reading books in physical form and I think a lot of other people do, too. I think a lot of this also depends on the nature of the book and what we're using it for. . .I hope the future will be a blend or pdf and physical books--especially for those of us with bad eyesight.
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 September 2009 15:11 (sixteen years ago)
haha no I'm not advocating anything for libraries, certainly not destroying books...but I do wonder about physical libraries that are just warehouses of paper, like that's useful but nothing like what they're *supposed* to be.
xp living abroad has just accelerated my move to PDF, just because libraries are a hassle to use here (even for people who work here permanently). And being able to do full-text searches of all the books + articles + notes I have on my computer, makes for a super-awesome workflow.
Reading a novel in PDF wouldn't be great at present (kindle whatever) but for my work I really only focus on 3-5 pages chunks at a time (and then work heavily on those).
― wacky spelling error (Euler), Tuesday, 15 September 2009 15:25 (sixteen years ago)
I've assigned course readers for my courses entirely on PDF, thus avoiding both the print shop and the reserve desk. I still put physical books on reserve for my courses but I suspect they don't get touched much (because I don't think my students do much of the assigned reading).
― wacky spelling error (Euler), Tuesday, 15 September 2009 15:26 (sixteen years ago)
Sounds about right...
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 15 September 2009 15:28 (sixteen years ago)
since i'm in an online distance education program for library school, most of my readings are in PDF, and i hate it. the format is just so clunky and slow and it takes me forever to remember which readings are under which file name and i have to be sitting in front of a computer any time i want to take notes or reference my readings etc. etc.
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 15 September 2009 15:31 (sixteen years ago)
though i guess it's better than spending $500 on books
I'm very sad to hear about the Philly library system closing down; in my lifetime I've probably taken out/returned over a ton of books to the central branch. I still remember my mom's classic white and mint green library card, and being bummed at the age of 12 when I finally received my own library card only to discover that it was some bullshit design with balloons and stuff on it
― Randy will be autographing copies of his fascinating autobiography (dyao), Tuesday, 15 September 2009 15:32 (sixteen years ago)
also shout out to the creepy old guy hanging out at the sci fi section who told me to read Jumper in third grade; I proceeded to read out loud to all my friends the naughty parts
― Randy will be autographing copies of his fascinating autobiography (dyao), Tuesday, 15 September 2009 15:33 (sixteen years ago)
I get the note-taking issue. I prefer to take notes on my computer since then I can search them easily, but I get that many don't agree. But you can still print PDFs---delivering readings as PDFs just means you don't *have* to.
― wacky spelling error (Euler), Tuesday, 15 September 2009 15:34 (sixteen years ago)
my professor said he bets 'his life' that there will be no more books relatively soon.
haha really? we talked abt this in my class too and most ppl were feeling quite the opposite. to me there are huge socioeconomic problems with statements like this which library school doesn't really seem interested in engaging.
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 15 September 2009 15:35 (sixteen years ago)
you can print PDF's, but at that point with the toner and the paper and stuff, why not just go to the library and make some photocopies, or check the book out?
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 September 2009 15:38 (sixteen years ago)
to me there are huge socioeconomic problems with statements like this which library school doesn't really seem interested in engaging.
^^^ this.
― The ever dapper nicolars (Nicole), Tuesday, 15 September 2009 15:39 (sixteen years ago)
professorial challops
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 15 September 2009 15:45 (sixteen years ago)
Are photocopies that much cheaper than printing? You're going to drop like 10 cents a copy. That's the same that my university costs to print on campus. I think that's probably about what it costs to print a page at home too, even with the cost of a printer + toner + paper (but fuck if I'm going to verify that $ right now). And then you don't have to go to the library, so you save time + gas (if you'd have to drive).
― wacky spelling error (Euler), Tuesday, 15 September 2009 15:52 (sixteen years ago)
http://www.librarysupportstaff.com/libready.gif
― velko, Tuesday, 15 September 2009 15:56 (sixteen years ago)
i can't print all that shit because then i feel guilty about it
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 15 September 2009 15:56 (sixteen years ago)
Are photocopies that much cheaper than printing?
who knows. it's probably the same. also, i changed my mind--pdf's are stupid, books rule.
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 September 2009 15:58 (sixteen years ago)
Free books that don't weigh anything rule.
― wacky spelling error (Euler), Tuesday, 15 September 2009 15:59 (sixteen years ago)
not straining your eyes by staring at little words on a screen all day rules
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 September 2009 16:00 (sixteen years ago)
bought a 17" laptop for that reason recently though that doesn't help my cost argument
― wacky spelling error (Euler), Tuesday, 15 September 2009 16:00 (sixteen years ago)
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/report_90_of_waking_hours_spent
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 September 2009 16:01 (sixteen years ago)
http://www.gorgeousladiesofwrestling.com/new_pix/glowin20fr20cover.jpg
― wacky spelling error (Euler), Tuesday, 15 September 2009 16:04 (sixteen years ago)
It does seem like e-books will become dominant, though I think it will happen significantly more slowly than some people think. How this will affect libraries will depend on how/if we are able to find a place in whatever new paradigm pops up. Can we find reasonable ways to "lend" out ebooks? Will publishers let us do this?
Of course, if, as seems likely. (e)books become free in that same way that music has, I guess it doesn't really matter.
― dr. johnson (askance johnson), Tuesday, 15 September 2009 16:05 (sixteen years ago)
Yeah, e-books are going to take over, but someone needs to use that e-ink or whatever it's called and make a less restrictive e-reader than the Kindle. But on regular screens my eyes start to hurt much sooner than other people's (I think?), and there's also the issue of typography, which has a huge effect on comprehension and reading speed.
The search functions of e-books are nice as long as they don't do away with professionally compiled indexes. Scanning books for content becomes a lot different, though. And loadtimes of pdfs still suck.
And I read a lot in the bath, which you can't do with an e-reader.
― bamcquern, Tuesday, 15 September 2009 16:14 (sixteen years ago)
you can if you like to live... dangerously.
― Randy will be autographing copies of his fascinating autobiography (dyao), Tuesday, 15 September 2009 16:15 (sixteen years ago)
Also, you have to consider which books/what information will be lost when browsing methods change. It's like how our school library has the DVDs in a backroom, and you have to think of a title and then look it up on a computer and write the call number down for them. You'd take out different DVDs surely if you could browse them. But with BOOKS there are so many more extant than DVDs in a library, so the issue is worse. I guess information science will change, but I still think some knowledge will become overlooked/undervalued. Like, information science methods with more or less take care of pointed research, but broader exploratory learning for its own sake will change a lot if in fifty years books are all just warehoused or sold off to private collectors and we have a lot of pdfs to look through for our 2060 version of the Kindle.
xpost wait what
― bamcquern, Tuesday, 15 September 2009 16:18 (sixteen years ago)
Oh. Okay. Yeah. Dangerously.
― bamcquern, Tuesday, 15 September 2009 16:19 (sixteen years ago)
Ha Ha : I dropped my book in the bath and it went fat
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 15 September 2009 16:21 (sixteen years ago)
I dropped a Cordrescu book into the company toilet once - or it slid off the tank and into the toilet. Worst that usually happens is my thumb makes a light moisture spot on a page, but I only take certain books in.
― bamcquern, Tuesday, 15 September 2009 16:23 (sixteen years ago)
so apparently the philly libraries are now safe: http://libwww.freelibrary.org/blog/index.cfm?srch=3&postid=952
― dr. johnson (askance johnson), Friday, 18 September 2009 16:28 (sixteen years ago)
Isn't having giant warehouses for paper a GOOD thing? Are we still going to be able to use and access PDFs in 20 years? I don't understand this "let's move to all digital formats" idea, it seems convenient in the present but shortsighted.
― Maria, Friday, 18 September 2009 18:23 (sixteen years ago)
Yeah, preservation of digital information is a big issue right now. CDs haven't proved as durable as we thought they would, and, despite what everyone says about What You Say about Yourself on the Internet Stays out There Forever, a lot of the Internet of ten years ago is lost. It's my understanding that preserving data, even on hard drives, for a long time is tricky. And making copies of copies of copies or transferring data multiple times is tricky.
And with pdfs, we're maybe giving too much power to Adobe, who don't necessarily have our best interests in mind? These are the people, aren't they, who wrote in their EULA that if you read aloud a public domain work in their proprietary ebook format you're breaking the law.
― bamcquern, Friday, 18 September 2009 18:41 (sixteen years ago)
it would be better if there was an open document format alternative to PDF, but does one exist?
― Nhex, Friday, 18 September 2009 20:01 (sixteen years ago)
I've been doing a lot with DjVu lately; I think it's an open format.
― Soul Finger! (Euler), Friday, 18 September 2009 20:10 (sixteen years ago)
ODF, but I think pdf is supposed to become open? Or already has? I dunno, but then that would mean Adobe losing control of the direction of their thing. I don't wanna look into it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
― bamcquern, Friday, 18 September 2009 20:11 (sixteen years ago)
right now it's hard to convince school administrators that they should invest (or continue to invest) in technologies for, say, 16mm or 35mm film projection. i'm wondering if soon enough there will be similar problems with, uh, books, or magazines, or other physical media in general.
― amateurist, Friday, 18 September 2009 22:22 (sixteen years ago)
I hope not. I think the two issues are as different as those media (books & film) are different.
― bamcquern, Friday, 18 September 2009 23:43 (sixteen years ago)
Ugh. My old community college fucked up their library pretty badly multiple times, but this recent, waddayacallit, renovation resulted in fewer, shorter stacks and a lot fewer books. And the majority of the collection was always housed on the top floor, so putting in the gigantic computer bank is not a real justification.
― bamcquern, Friday, 18 September 2009 23:46 (sixteen years ago)
This "comment" - more like an article - is straight fire:
http://www.metafilter.com/112698/California-Dreamin#4183210
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 20 February 2012 13:07 (fourteen years ago)
A sample -
If you can take yourself out of your first world techie social media smart-shoes for a second then imagine this: you're 53 years old, you've been in prison from 20 to 26, you didn't finish high school, and you have a grandson who you're now supporting because your daughter is in jail. You're lucky, you have a job at the local Wendy's. You have to fill out a renewal form for government assistance which has just been moved online as a cost saving measure (this isn't hypothetical, more and more municipalities are doing this now). You have a very limited idea of how to use a computer, you don't have Internet access, and your survival (and the survival of your grandson) is contingent upon this form being filled out correctly.Do you go to the local social services office? No, you don't. The overworked staff there says that due to budget cuts they can no longer do walk-in advising, and that there's a 2 week waiting list to get assistance with filling out forms. You call them up on the by-the-minute phone you're borrowing from your cousin (wasting 15 of her minutes on hold) and they say that they can't help, but you can go to your public library. OK, so you go to your public library after work (you ask your other cousin to watch your grandson for the day since wasting those minutes has temporarily burned some bridges). Due to budget cuts the library no longer has evening hours, sorry, try again (and you also don't get back the bus-fare or money you spent on a hack to get across town to the nearest branch, since other budget cuts closed the one in your neighborhood). OK, so you come back on the weekend. You ask the overworked librarian at the desk to sign up for a computer. She testily tells you that you're at the wrong desk, and that sign-ups are at circulation. You feel foolish and go over to the circulation desk, who tells you that you need to sign up for a library card to use the computer. After filling out the forms the librarian starts to make your card for you, and informs you that she can't process a card, since you have fines from 2 years ago that total fifty dollars. It's an emergency, you say, you need to use the computer. She sighs heavily, informs you that it's against policy, and then prints a guest pass anyway. You get 30 minutes at a time for a total of 2 hours per day. Computers are on the second floor.You go up to the second floor to find a total of 20 computers with a waiting list of 15 people. You do some quick math in your head, and realize you're probably going to be here for a while, so you walk over to the magazine section, and read People while you wait. Finally, it's your turn. You walk over to your terminal, and your time starts ticking. Your breath seizes in your chest, and you realize you have no idea what to do. You have the form that they gave you at the social services office, which has an address, which you sort of know what that does, but you can't quite remember – 17 minutes, by the way. You try typing X City Social Services in a box at the top, a page comes back and says “address not found” with a list of things below it. You're panicking, because there's a line forming (there always is) and the library will probably close before you can make it back on – 10 minutes, by the way. After a little more fumbling and clicking you have no luck, you're kicked off, and immediately someone is standing behind you to use your computer. You relinquish your seat, and head back down stairs. You're about to leave, already trying to think of who you know who has a computer who might let you use it, and might know about filling out these forms, but the only person you can think of is your friend in the county, and taking a bus out there would be awfully expensive.Before leaving you decide to try one last thing. You go up to the desk, and explain your situation. The tired, overworked person at the desk nods along, and says, “well, we're not supposed to do this, but...” and tells you to walk around the desk. With a few clicks on the mouse they have the site up that you spent 30 minutes trying to find. They bring up the electronic form, politely turn their head aside as you fill in your social security number, and then ask you a series of questions to satisfy the demands of the form. It comes to your email address, and you have to admit that you don't have one, so the librarian walks you through setting up a free one and gives it to you on a slip of paper. “We have free computer classes,” he says (and you're lucky, because a great deal of public libraries don't), but you look at the times and realize that between your job and taking care of your grandson you'd never be able to attend, and it'd probably be too hard anyway. You thank him, and he smiles, and you leave. Congratulations, you've staved off disaster until the next time you need to use a computer for a life-essential task.Now let's start that again, but this time you don't speak English. Just kidding
Do you go to the local social services office? No, you don't. The overworked staff there says that due to budget cuts they can no longer do walk-in advising, and that there's a 2 week waiting list to get assistance with filling out forms. You call them up on the by-the-minute phone you're borrowing from your cousin (wasting 15 of her minutes on hold) and they say that they can't help, but you can go to your public library. OK, so you go to your public library after work (you ask your other cousin to watch your grandson for the day since wasting those minutes has temporarily burned some bridges). Due to budget cuts the library no longer has evening hours, sorry, try again (and you also don't get back the bus-fare or money you spent on a hack to get across town to the nearest branch, since other budget cuts closed the one in your neighborhood). OK, so you come back on the weekend. You ask the overworked librarian at the desk to sign up for a computer. She testily tells you that you're at the wrong desk, and that sign-ups are at circulation. You feel foolish and go over to the circulation desk, who tells you that you need to sign up for a library card to use the computer. After filling out the forms the librarian starts to make your card for you, and informs you that she can't process a card, since you have fines from 2 years ago that total fifty dollars. It's an emergency, you say, you need to use the computer. She sighs heavily, informs you that it's against policy, and then prints a guest pass anyway. You get 30 minutes at a time for a total of 2 hours per day. Computers are on the second floor.
You go up to the second floor to find a total of 20 computers with a waiting list of 15 people. You do some quick math in your head, and realize you're probably going to be here for a while, so you walk over to the magazine section, and read People while you wait. Finally, it's your turn. You walk over to your terminal, and your time starts ticking. Your breath seizes in your chest, and you realize you have no idea what to do. You have the form that they gave you at the social services office, which has an address, which you sort of know what that does, but you can't quite remember – 17 minutes, by the way. You try typing X City Social Services in a box at the top, a page comes back and says “address not found” with a list of things below it. You're panicking, because there's a line forming (there always is) and the library will probably close before you can make it back on – 10 minutes, by the way. After a little more fumbling and clicking you have no luck, you're kicked off, and immediately someone is standing behind you to use your computer. You relinquish your seat, and head back down stairs. You're about to leave, already trying to think of who you know who has a computer who might let you use it, and might know about filling out these forms, but the only person you can think of is your friend in the county, and taking a bus out there would be awfully expensive.
Before leaving you decide to try one last thing. You go up to the desk, and explain your situation. The tired, overworked person at the desk nods along, and says, “well, we're not supposed to do this, but...” and tells you to walk around the desk. With a few clicks on the mouse they have the site up that you spent 30 minutes trying to find. They bring up the electronic form, politely turn their head aside as you fill in your social security number, and then ask you a series of questions to satisfy the demands of the form. It comes to your email address, and you have to admit that you don't have one, so the librarian walks you through setting up a free one and gives it to you on a slip of paper. “We have free computer classes,” he says (and you're lucky, because a great deal of public libraries don't), but you look at the times and realize that between your job and taking care of your grandson you'd never be able to attend, and it'd probably be too hard anyway. You thank him, and he smiles, and you leave. Congratulations, you've staved off disaster until the next time you need to use a computer for a life-essential task.
Now let's start that again, but this time you don't speak English. Just kidding
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 20 February 2012 13:11 (fourteen years ago)
reading that kind of made me want to cry for the library
― kim tim jim investor (harbl), Monday, 20 February 2012 14:43 (fourteen years ago)