why 9/11?

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I mean the date. 911 emergency connotations seem so suspicious.

Why that one and not 9/10 or 9/12 or any of the 350 odd others? What symbolic value does it have for Osama? Or for Islam? Or as an anniversary of something America did? Didn't we invade Chile and kill like 3000 Chileans on September 11th 1970 something?

― richard smoker, Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:06 (twenty years ago)

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:08 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, Osama just wanted to be funny that way. I laugh now.

― donut debonair (donut), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:08 (twenty years ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11

― idon'tknow (Jocelyn), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:12 (twenty years ago)

I don't think Osama was trying to be funny. But to have planned out and executed that attack he has to be pretty sharp logistically. I'm just wondering why he picked that of all days. You'd think the news would investigate or something.

― richard smoker, Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:15 (twenty years ago)

Some odd assumptions being made here.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:16 (twenty years ago)

Maybe he just started planning it on Sep 11th 2000, and thought "Lets do this a year from now"... maybe.

― Craig Gilchrist (Craig Gilchrist), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:17 (twenty years ago)

richard, has it occurred to you that the numbers in the date of the event itself may not have meant a thing to Osama, and that it just happened to be a convenient day, given data about the small number of passengers that fly on a given tuesday morning in late summer, therefore making it easier to hijack a plane?

― donut debonair (donut), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:18 (twenty years ago)

Wow. Lorne Greene and Peter Tosh died on the same day. (9/11/87).

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:18 (twenty years ago)

You'd think the news would investigate or something.!!

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:19 (twenty years ago)

I mean, there are numerous stories about Al Qaeda planning this for years by doing test-runs on relatively empty planes across the U.S.

James Woods, the actor, has a story about this somewhere.

― donut debonair (donut), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:19 (twenty years ago)

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/woods.htm

― donut debonair (donut), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:20 (twenty years ago)

Donut Debonair, I think that's what many people assume, yes.

The reasons it occurred to me to ask this question--

Assumption #1--The World Trade Center was chosen for symbolic reasons.
Assumption #2--The Pentagon was chosen for strategic reasons.
Fact #1--It's amazing his plan worked. He must be some planner.
Assumption #3--Wouldn't the date have been chosen for symbolic if not strategic reasons?

― richard smoker, Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:20 (twenty years ago)

Bin Laden claimed at the time that he didn't plan the attack, but applauded the martyrs. I sort of believe him.

― andy --, Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:20 (twenty years ago)

the Madrid bombings happened on 3/11. coincidence?

― laurence kansas (lawrence kansas), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:21 (twenty years ago)

Don't forget that the emergency connotations of 911 are like, totally universal

― symsym, Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:22 (twenty years ago)

Your first assumption is half wrong. there are many strategic reasons behind WTC being a target. Your second assumption is half wrong for the converse reason.

Assumption #3... why?

― donut debonair (donut), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:22 (twenty years ago)

Don't forget that the emergency connotations of 911 are like, totally universal

I don't think so.

― M. White (Miguelito), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:23 (twenty years ago)

I think Sym was being teh sarcastic.

― donut debonair (donut), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:24 (twenty years ago)

Donut Debonair, when you plan on buying plane tickets, don't you usually have a reason? Or do you just randomly pick days to fly places? I'm not quite sure why assuming hijackers chose a date for a reason is so easily dismissable. Which is why I asked.

― richard smoker, Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:24 (twenty years ago)

Hey, smoker. Why did you choose today to start this thread?

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:25 (twenty years ago)

9/11 is the date the US established permanent military bases in Saudi Arabia (see first Gulf War). that's why. that no one in America seems to be aware of this is rather sad.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:27 (twenty years ago)

Thank you Shakey! And you're right, I feel pretty dumb for not knowing that.

Pleasant Plains, I just read Uncle Sam, a graphic novel by Steve Darnall and Alex Ross. It got me thinking and wondering some things, among them, why the date 9/11, and not 9/10 or 9/12, or any other day of the year.

― richard smoker, Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:29 (twenty years ago)

September 11, 1990 - U.S. President George Bush addresses Congress on the Persian Gulf crisis, vowing that "Sadam Hussein will fail" in
his takeover of Kuwait. Introduces infamous "New World Order" baloney.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:31 (twenty years ago)

whoa, 3/11/2004 (Madrid) exactly 911 days after 9/11/2001?

― laurence kansas (lawrence kansas), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:32 (twenty years ago)

it was a tuesday.

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:32 (twenty years ago)

Whoah!

I'm glad I know that now. Thanks again, Shakey.

― richard smoker, Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:32 (twenty years ago)

I plan plane travel based on what time is most convenient for me to execute my plans (which, in my case, usually involves leisure, not a holy war, if it makes you feel better).. NOT for random reasons, NOR specific reasons based on the numbers of the date itself only, because it's the anniversary of something.

Why is the former reason so easy for you to evade? You seem to have an agenda attached to your question, is all I'm sayin'...

But you know what? I think Shakey just fulfilled it...

9/11 is the date the US established permanent military bases in Saudi Arabia (see first Gulf War). that's why. that no one in America seems to be aware of this is rather sad.

It's only sad given the context of 9/11/2001, Shakey. Are you implying we all should have remembered that date before the tragedies?

― donut debonair (donut), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:35 (twenty years ago)

The guy who shot kennedy ran from a warehouse to a theatrer and the guy who shot lincoln ran from a theater to a warehouse.

― A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:36 (twenty years ago)

obviously American media and BushCo. are happy to deliberately bury/obscure this factoid because it lends credence to Osama being a politically calculating force with legitimate grievances against US foreign policy, as opposed to a genocidal nutbag (of course, in reality, he's a bit of both)

x-post

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:36 (twenty years ago)

The agenda behind my question was to get an answer. I can tell myself there was no reason.

― richard smoker, Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:37 (twenty years ago)

What I want to know is: why does everyone go on about 9/11 when, as far as I can tell, nothing important has ever actually happened on the 9th of November?

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:39 (twenty years ago)

OK, so not as many people know that Osama is a politically calculating nutcase as opposed to just a nutcase... this really makes no difference to the average "Get Osama!" thinking Westerner, though.

― donut debonair (donut), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:41 (twenty years ago)

But that's the day I was born, Caitlin!

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:41 (twenty years ago)

whoa, I drove to the theatre in my Lincoln from my job at the warehouse

― laurence kansas (lawrence kansas), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:41 (twenty years ago)

Actually, no it wasn't.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:41 (twenty years ago)

Well, personally, I'm one of those "Get Osama!" westerners, for legit reasons, obviously. And I didn't have to know about the 9/11 date significance to know that Osama was politically calculating, nor did many other people.

― donut debonair (donut), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:42 (twenty years ago)

"OK, so not as many people know that Osama is a politically calculating nutcase as opposed to just a nutcase..."

uh, I assume yr not referring to the Muslim world, where Osama's political motivations are a daily reality for many.

"this really makes no difference to the average "Get Osama!" thinking Westerner, though. "

no, it doesn't, but it does point up how myopic their thinking is and how, at best, its the product of willful ignorance. Bin Laden's choice of 9/11 was obviously meant as a political comment, but obscuring any and all legitimate political grievances of Al Qaeda/Osama goes hand in hand with vilifying him as an inhuman monster and using him as an abstract tool to achieve other ends (mobilization of military force, Patriot Act, etc. see also Goldstein in "1984"). that way we can all just focus on catching the "monster" and not worry about the details or ramifications of our disastrous foreign policy.

x-post

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:48 (twenty years ago)

Now, Timothy McVeigh picking 4/19 is another story....

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:50 (twenty years ago)

I'm pretty sure they weren't observing the 28th anniv of the CIA overthrowing Allende.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 7 April 2005 19:17 (twenty years ago)

Shakey, I agree that the U.S. government has done a lot of manipulation to the image of Osama to cover up the rather ad hoc foreign policy decisions.. I'm just skeptical that the lack of knowledge of the 9/11 date, in relation to U.S. bases in Saudi Arabia, makes all the difference, is all.

But, hey, you made Richard Smoker's day! He now can validate his analysis into the terrorist mastermind, which obviously centers around the significance of specific dates, and doesn't really center around all that tedious political/religious manipulation/masterminding stuff that's just too boring alone to be valid.

― donut debonair (donut), Thursday, 7 April 2005 19:33 (twenty years ago)

9th of November?

November 9, 1918 - Kaiser Wilhelm abdicates.

― M. White (Miguelito), Thursday, 7 April 2005 19:49 (twenty years ago)

Donut Debonair, I just asked a question, jeez, lighten up a little.

― richard smoker, Thursday, 7 April 2005 19:53 (twenty years ago)

he was just wondering why.

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 7 April 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

Oh. I was pretending to be curious, but secretly looking to validate my analysis into the terrorist mastermind, centering around dates and so forth.

― richard smoker, Thursday, 7 April 2005 20:02 (twenty years ago)

http://www.rpgamer.com/games/everquest/eq2/screens/eq2_16.jpg

― donut debonair (donut), Thursday, 7 April 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

Is that you?

― richard smoker, Thursday, 7 April 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

IF WE LOOK FOR PATTERNS THE TERRORISTS WIN

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Thursday, 7 April 2005 20:25 (twenty years ago)

November 11, 1989

The fall of the Berlin Wall.

― M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 8 April 2005 14:43 (twenty years ago)

It is sad that the date isn't known, because Americans should understand the message Bin Laden was trying to get across, and how their foreign policy was the reason for Sep 11.

― Nellie (nellskies), Friday, 8 April 2005 14:44 (twenty years ago)

You think most Americans aren't at least somewhat aware that Osama had beef with our foreign policy? But our foreign policy wasn't the reason for it. Crazed wannabe martyrs were.

― ()ops (()()ps), Friday, 8 April 2005 14:48 (twenty years ago)

sometimes when i play counterstrike the TERRORISTS WIN

― g-kit (g-kit), Friday, 8 April 2005 14:52 (twenty years ago)

How many people remember the date of Camp David? and other important events? how gives a shit about the dates? It's the events themselves that are important.

The only thing that sad is that people haven't been following closely enough U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East. What DATES on which some cornerstone decisions -- good or bad -- occurred doesn't mean shit, except to a crazed wannabe martyr, in this case.

― donut debonair (donut), Friday, 8 April 2005 15:56 (twenty years ago)

if it still means something to the presently crazed wannabe martyr it goddamn well better mean something to the people charged with protecting U.S. citizens from further attacks. The need for meat-and-potatoes analysis is a given, but if you're trying to intercept the zodiac killer would you rather maybe break open an astrology book or scream "OMG this dude is full of shit he believes in astrology let's get back to the real work"?

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Friday, 8 April 2005 16:29 (twenty years ago)

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